Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 12/23/06


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:46 AM - Re: Sky Gypsy Makes Aviation Week & Space Technology (Rod Young)
     2. 01:06 AM - goggles (Clif Dawson)
     3. 06:23 AM - Model A Eng Timming (Chet's Mail)
     4. 06:30 AM - Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. (Gene Beenenga)
     5. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Roman Bukolt)
     6. 06:39 AM - Airfoil plots (Roman Bukolt)
     7. 06:40 AM - Re: Lift strut vibration (Ed G.)
     8. 07:14 AM - Re: Lift strut vibration ()
     9. 07:38 AM - Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. (DJ Vegh)
    10. 07:41 AM - Re: Lift strut vibration (Kip and Beth Gardner)
    11. 10:55 AM - Re: goggles (Darrel Jones)
    12. 02:08 PM - Re: Airfoil plots (Alan Lyscars)
    13. 03:28 PM - Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. (Peter W Johnson)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:46:05 AM PST US
    From: Rod Young <montanarod@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Sky Gypsy Makes Aviation Week & Space Technology
    To view the photo of Frank's plane, try this link http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/mh/awphoto06/index.php Do not archive Rod 2006 Art & Photography Issue (just came out) pages 84 AND 85. Honorable M ention: Paul Glenshaw Silver Spring, MD "Pietenpol flies over Xenia, Ohio" (pronounced Zeen-yah) Photo shows Frank Pavliga's Pietnepol in an air-to-air photo from a quarter ing-trail view off his starboard side roughly 500 feet agl Mike C. _________________________________________________________________ Get the Live.com Holiday Page for recipes, gift-giving ideas, and more. www.live.com/?addtemplate=holiday


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:06:11 AM PST US
    From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: goggles
    If youn want the real thing it will cost you. :-) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/goggles.php I got a pair I picked up years ago in a second hand shop. They have silver painted frames and take the lenses from the above goggles. I couldn't believe it! I was taking some pics in the backyard and guess what flew over! Clif


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:23:13 AM PST US
    From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1@mchsi.com>
    Subject: Model A Eng Timming
    Hello: I'm having trouble timing my model A engine. With a slick mag that has a 25 degree inpulse. I have set the mag so the points will open at 25 degrees BTDC. AIso I have set the timing with out the inpulse engaged. But when I turn the prop over to check the inpulse it will snap about 45 degrees after TDC. Any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated. Chet


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:30:53 AM PST US
    From: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs.
    javier, is there any chance you could post or send me (email) a photo of that mixture set up you have? Ken -----Original Message----- >From: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx> >Sent: Dec 22, 2006 11:52 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. > > >Hi again Piets, sorry i forget something that can be usefull >On the first runnings, i have problems whit the mixture control (maybe the >altitud here) i was using a lever for adjust it (like yours Peter), i >change it for a Vernier mixturecontrol and the engine perform much better, >the mixture needs a fine adjust and i think that whit the lever it's very >hard to get a good mixture.. > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:38:45 AM PST US
    From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels@tds.net>
    Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
    I'll email them when I get some time. ----- Original Message ----- From: <johnwoods@westnet.com.au> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:11 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil > > Hi Roman, > > I am just starting my Piet in Australia and am about to lay up the > wing ribs. > I would be interested in these Riblett airfoils. > Would you be able to post the co-ordinates for these airfoils? > > Regards, > JohnW > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: conceptmodels@tds.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil > Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:31:53 -0600 > >><conceptmodels@tds.net> >> >>Hi People! >>Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred >>radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he >> >>thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the >>owner >>and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in >> >>Sullivan, Wi. >>The plane had not been touched in two yrs. >>Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it >>running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a >>military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve >>her a >>renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it. >>This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a >>really >>well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next >>summer at >>Brodhead. >>About the airfoil! >>Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did >>not >>build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better >>performing >>airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did >>airfoil >>designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612. >>It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no >>undercamber. It >>far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. >>Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor >>rating. >>Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even >>a >>thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5. >>The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord >> >>thickness. >>Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from >>the >>front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the >>Piet >>airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would >>show. >>At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher >>speed, >>greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw >>his plane >>climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude >>than any >>of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full >>throttle. >>These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We >> >>evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we >>plotted >>them out. >>The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by >>Bill Rewey >>about these airfoils. >>I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is >>available to >>anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely >>will build >>one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has >>not >>been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all >>built and >>they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I >>hadn't >>started assembling the wing yet. >> >>Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved) >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu> >>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low? >> >> >><jboatri@emory.edu> >>> >>> Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on >>his Piet. >>> I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get >>him to >>> write more articles for the newsletter. >>> >>> At 7:13 AM -0500 12/18/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote: >>>><csfog@earthlink.net> >>>> >>>>Jeff, >>>>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. >>He said >>>>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think >>it has >>>>any cooling issues. >>>>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he >>would be >>>>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about >>>>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert >>for >>>>the >>>>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. >>>>Skip >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and >>>>> performed otherwise? >>>> >>>> > Jeff >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________ >>> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD >>> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA >>> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis >>> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:39:42 AM PST US
    From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels@tds.net>
    Subject: Airfoil plots
    Hey Guys, Re: the Riblett full size drawings, I guess I didn't make myself clear. The plots are $10.00 for each drawing. I received several checks but some of the senders did not specify which plot they wanted, the 612 or the 613.5. I'm guessing they assumed they would be getting both. You know who you are. Let me know. Otherwise I'll send you the 612 drawing. Roman B.


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:40:33 AM PST US
    From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Lift strut vibration
    Those fittings are so short and stiff that I would think the wood would absorb and dampen any destructive vibrations. Not a good place for armchair engineering though. Have a great holiday season and a prosperous New Year...Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com<mailto:Rcaprd@aol.com> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut vibration In a message dated 12/22/2006 9:07:15 AM Central Standard Time, flyboy_120@hotmail.com<mailto:flyboy_120@hotmail.com> writes: There is a notation on the plans. Drawing #6, at the bottom of the upper left section, right a the lower end of the lift strut diagram from BHP. It says " Lower end of strut is given a little play to avoid chances of crystalizing fuselage fitting". Wishing everyone a great holiday season.....Ed G. I'm keeping my lower struts tight. There's a thing called 'Modules of Elasticity', which means the metal will return to it's original dimension, as long as it does not exceed it's Modules of Elasticity. >From what I understand, Steel will NOT fatigue, as long as it is not bent beyond it's Modules of Elasticity. Aluminum is a whole different animal. It will eventually fatigue, even if it does not exceed it's modules of elasticity. Chuck G. NX770CG www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:14:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Lift strut vibration
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Would this also apply to GN-1's and three piece wing set up? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Sent: December 22, 2006 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut vibration There is a notation on the plans. Drawing #6, at the bottom of the upper left section, right a the lower end of the lift strut diagram from BHP. It says " Lower end of strut is given a little play to avoid chances of crystalizing fuselage fitting". Wishing everyone a great holiday season.....Ed G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Leon Stefan <mailto:lshutks@webtv.net> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 4:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut vibration Stefan) " Does this apply to the lower right strut as well?" Harvy: "leave a little slack" (words of BHP in the old news letter) applied to the lower end of all 4 lift struts. No problem up top because those"lolly pop" fittings are actually a hinge. I don't recall if the guy he was talking to used jury struts or no jurys. BHP as you know didn't so I'm sure he had vibration even though the streamline tubing he used was formed with the 4 stiffener ribs made into them. None of this may even be a problem with vibration dampening jury struts. It was interesting to look at Alan Rudolphs lift struts at Brodhead. If you get a chance to see these struts check them out. Interesting note on vibration--It's fun to watch the radio antenna on my pickup as I drive. Its made of thin wire and sometimes I see 3 waves of vibration in it as I drive. Dave Abramson--Sorry I couldn't read your question. Yours and many others have started showing up on my screen as dark blue text on a slightly darker blue back ground. Maybe Santa will bring me a new computer and a Hooters babe to show to use it. Rick--Your winter pictures kind of make us long for those mild Ohio winters don't it. Leon nbsp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Free * * Site you for http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ===========


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:38:10 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <dj@veghdesign.com>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs.
    not flying yet but I static at around 2900 with a 66x29 Tennessee prop. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. > <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> > > Hi Guys, > > I am trying to find out information on rpm levels and wooden prop sizes > for > the Piet/Corvair combination. > > Could people flying with this combination let me know the following:- > > 1 Size of prop > 2 Static RPM > 3 Typical cruise speed and rpm > 4 Full throttle speed and rpm > 5 Empty weight of aircraft > > I have some information from Hans and also from Al Schuberts book, "How I > make Wood Propellers". I would appreciate some more. > > Also, does anybody know if there is any correlation between Warp Drive > pitch > angles and Wooden Props? > > Thanks > > Peter > Wonthaggi, Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > > -- > 6:45 PM > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:41:41 AM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Lift strut vibration
    Chuck, I understand what you are saying & maybe it's not relevant, but there used to be an article on the FlyBaby web site that went into great detail about the dangers of using hardwire instead of cables to rig and secure the wings. As I recall, the article was an analysis based on a crash of a hardwired FlyBaby, where the cause of the crash was determined to be metal fatigueand failure in a wing-root attachment fitting, caused by vibration transmitted through the hard wire. The point of the article was that, in the FlyBaby design, the use of flexible cable (Pete Bower's original design specification) prevented vibration, whereas the hardwire didn't. If I recall the article correctly, there was nothing about the design that would have stressed the failed fitting beyond it's modulus of elasticity, just constant, unrelieved vibration. I'm no expert & my memory may be faulty, but I'm sure the article is still posted on the FlyBaby web site for those who want to check for themselves. Merry Christamas (or whatever Holiday you celebrate) to everyone. Kip Gardner At 9:19 PM -0500 12/22/06, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/22/2006 9:07:15 AM Central Standard Time, >flyboy_120@hotmail.com writes: > >There is a notation on the plans. Drawing #6, at the bottom of the >upper left section, right a the lower end of the lift strut diagram >from BHP. It says " Lower end of strut is given a little play to >avoid chances of crystalizing fuselage fitting". Wishing everyone a >great holiday season.....Ed G. > >I'm keeping my lower struts tight. There's a thing called 'Modules >of Elasticity', which means the metal will return to it's original >dimension, as long as it does not exceed it's Modules of Elasticity. >From what I understand, Steel will NOT fatigue, as long as it is not >bent beyond it's Modules of Elasticity. Aluminum is a whole >different animal. It will eventually fatigue, even if it does not >exceed it's modules of elasticity. > >Chuck G. >NX770CG -- North Canton, OH


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:55:01 AM PST US
    From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor@vom.com>
    Subject: Re: goggles
    Clif Dawson wrote: > > If youn want the real thing it will cost you. :-) > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/goggles.php > > I got a pair I picked up years ago in a second hand shop. > They have silver painted frames and take the lenses from > the above goggles. > > I couldn't believe it! I was taking some pics in the backyard > and guess what flew over! > > Clif > You can get a light-weight but usable pair of foam-lined goggles from Enco Tools, at use-enco.com. Look online at the Uvex Fury protective goggles, part number 891-4717. They list for $11.36, but sell for less than $10 when on sale. Understand that they are NOT regular flying goggles with a metal frame and leather trim, but they seem to work fine for slow flying. Good luck, and hope to see some at Brodhead next year. Darrel Jones N154JP


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:08:07 PM PST US
    From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars@maine.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Airfoil plots
    Roman, Just the 612 for me. Al Lyscars Portland, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Roman Bukolt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airfoil plots Hey Guys, Re: the Riblett full size drawings, I guess I didn't make myself clear. The plots are $10.00 for each drawing. I received several checks but some of the senders did not specify which plot they wanted, the 612 or the 613.5. I'm guessing they assumed they would be getting both. You know who you are. Let me know. Otherwise I'll send you the 612 drawing. Roman B.


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:28:28 PM PST US
    From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
    Subject: Pietenpol's and Corvairs.
    Thanks DJ. Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: Sunday, 24 December 2006 2:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. not flying yet but I static at around 2900 with a 66x29 Tennessee prop. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. > <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> > > Hi Guys, > > I am trying to find out information on rpm levels and wooden prop sizes > for > the Piet/Corvair combination. > > Could people flying with this combination let me know the following:- > > 1 Size of prop > 2 Static RPM > 3 Typical cruise speed and rpm > 4 Full throttle speed and rpm > 5 Empty weight of aircraft > > I have some information from Hans and also from Al Schuberts book, "How I > make Wood Propellers". I would appreciate some more. > > Also, does anybody know if there is any correlation between Warp Drive > pitch > angles and Wooden Props? > > Thanks > > Peter > Wonthaggi, Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > > -- > 6:45 PM > > > -- 3:22 PM -- 3:22 PM




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