Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:55 AM - Low oil temps in winter (Shawn Wolk)
2. 04:06 AM - rib stiching advice (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 05:54 AM - Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing (Glenn Thomas)
4. 09:13 AM - Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing (Bill Church)
5. 11:24 AM - Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing (Glenn Thomas)
6. 12:54 PM - Re: rib stiching advice (Mike Luther)
7. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing (Peter W Johnson)
8. 03:00 PM - Re: rib stiching advice (Rcaprd@aol.com)
9. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing (walt evans)
10. 04:20 PM - Oil Temperature (Don Emch)
11. 04:31 PM - Re: Low oil temps in winter (Don Emch)
12. 04:36 PM - Re: rib stiching advice (Don Emch)
13. 04:47 PM - Re: rib construction (Dale Johnson)
14. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Oil breather condensation and cold weather flying (shad bell)
15. 05:33 PM - Re: Oil breather condensation and cold weather flying (Don Emch)
16. 08:42 PM - skis (Oscar Zuniga)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Low oil temps in winter |
I've been battling the low oil temperature issue for a few years. I
have been able to get 185F at 38F outside. 176F at 30-32 and 167F at 18
- 20F on my A-65. The current setup hasn't been tested any cooler this
year yet as I recently changed a baffle design and we have had
unseasonally mild weather here. I have a J-3 style cowling with original
J-3 eyebrows. I'm assuming you already have the lower cylinder baffles
installed as these are left on year round. The following is a list of
modifications that I complete for winter operations.
materials required:
Some standard grade aluminium sheet...say .032-.040. No need for fancy
stuff here.
A roll of the aluminium tape. The very soft shiny stuff.
A roll of the insulated duct wrap that has a sticky sided foam about
1/4" thick with an aluminium foil outside.
-Wrap the oil tank with the insulated duct wrap. leave an open area at
the back (say 25% of it) without the insulation. I then use a insulated
hood from from an old parka and also wrap this around the oil tank. And
again I leave the back area open. The back area open allows the oil to
get warmed up when I am preheating the engine.
-Wrap all the intake tubes with the insulated duct wrap. I then safety
wire the wrap around the tubes to secure it even though it does stick to
the tubes.
-I also stick the insulated wrap to the front of the engine case, and
the top of the engine case. (I'm trying to retain as much heat as
possible. The aluminium tape can be used to assist retaining some of
this wrap. As well as securing with safety wire when possible.
-I install baffle plates that block off the airflow from the top of the
eyebrow downward over the barrel portion of the cylinder to the height
of the exhaust flange then outward to the valve cover and downward to
the lower cowling. Now in the area from a line at the exhaust flange
upward to the top of the cylinder in the head portion of the cylinder
the baffle here has 10 holes in it. (this is my latest mod., prior I
tried blocking it off but I believe it was causing the front cylinders
to run too hot) So far up to 18-20F I can run w/o closing up any holes.
When the temps drop, my plan is to partially block the holes with some
tape. Thus still allowing airflow...but limiting it.
-Either with tape or with some sheet aluminium. Block off the top of the
eyebrow about 2" from the highest point of the eyebrow.
-Tape over the hole in the front of the cowling above the air intake
that blows on the lower engine case above the carburetor.
-Tape over gap (if any) between cowling and air filter assembly.
If anyone wants further info...I can email a picture. Currently I
don't have any pics but could easily provide some.
I have also made some other winter mods for improved carb heat and
cabin heat. (very little...mostly directed at my feet) I have made
cylindrical heat muffs that mount on the exposed exhaust manifolds. I
have wrapped springs around the manifold first before these are
installed to increase heat exchange. On one side the heat muff has a
series of restrictor holes facing forward. The muff is then ducted into
the J-3 style dual heat muff and then through a heat box to two hoses
directed at my feet. On the other side the opening on the heat muff is
around the back of the muff. And then is ducted to the carb heat side of
the J-3 style dual heat muff. Normally the carb heat and cabin heat
muffs get there air from the front of the cowling. The cabin heat side
still gets some ram, but the carb heat side doesn't need ram effect as
the engine will suck the air in. Both of these additional muffs work as
preheaters for the original style systems.
Shawn Wolk
Winnipeg. MB
C-FRAZ 1933 Pietenpol Aircamper.
'already 25 hours on skis this season...yippee'
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | rib stiching advice |
Mike,
I havn't been keeping current, so if this has been suggested already,
oops!
Once you're stood the wing on it's leading edge, and gotten your
multiple needles (however many you get comfortable with, I used three)
mark where your holes will go on the entire wing, then get a sharp
pointed soldering iron and burn a hole at each mark. This makes the
stiching go SO much easier, and I found I could look through the hole
next to it and actuall see through the wing much of the time.
You'll also find that you'll develop a good feel for finding the other
hole. And yes, do get a buddy. Bright lights are also helpful.
Douwe
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing |
Peter,
Thanks for the response. Picture shows me exactly what I was wondering about.
Question: Do the ribs with the vertical members go on the wing tip end AND the
root? I see them in your picture on the root ribs. I've got 15 ribs to go and
I'm trying to figure out how many of them are of the non-standard type (different
gussets, vertical truss members, etc.) since once the standard ones are
done changes will need to be made to the jig.
Great site, thanks!
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85154#85154
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing |
Glenn,
Per the official BHP (Vi Kapler 3 piece wing) plans, there is NO big
side gusset on the butt ribs at the center section. These ribs DO have
the additional vertical truss pieces, PLUS there is a 2" wide strip of
1/16" plywood glued to the top and bottom cap strips of the butt ribs.
The 2" wide strip should provide plenty of area to firmly attach the
fabric (it's actually there to provide lateral bracing when the fabric
shrinks).
I haven't got to the point of constructing my center-section yet, but I
think you would want the butt ribs to be as open as possible for
inspection purposes and when it comes time to route and attach the
aileron cables etc. - closing off the ribs with a solid gusset would
restrict access (holes would need to be cut). On the other hand, I have
seen quite a few pictures that show a big full-rib gusset. I believe the
UK plans have a big gusset, but those plans also incorporate a
quick-disconnect for the aileron controls. I also think that the Grega
GN-1 plans have a solid plywood butt-rib (but I could be wrong on that
one - I haven't actually seen the GN-1 plans). In short, I don't think
the big gusset is really necessary - but some builders seem to opt for
it.
Bill C.
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing |
Bill,
I guess that neither way poses a problem but may take the route of less wood/weight
and leave the end open. Just wondered if closing in the end was helpful
in keeping out moisture that sneaks through that seal at the wing joint.
Thanks!
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85223#85223
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rib stiching advice |
Douwe,
Thanks for the additional advice, I finished lacing both wings last Monday "New
Years Day". I worked alone and used four needles. I stood the wing up and
had plenty of light on both sides of the wing to help look through the wing to
see the hole on the other side.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stiching advice
> Mike,
>
> I havn't been keeping current, so if this has been suggested
> already, oops!
>
> Once you're stood the wing on it's leading edge, and gotten your
> multiple needles (however many you get comfortable with, I used
> three) mark where your holes will go on the entire wing, then get
> a sharp pointed soldering iron and burn a hole at each mark. This
> makes the stiching go SO much easier, and I found I could look
> through the hole next to it and actuall see through the wing much
> of the time.
>
> You'll also find that you'll develop a good feel for finding the
> other hole. And yes, do get a buddy. Bright lights are also helpful.
>
> Douwe
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing |
Glenn
As far as I can remember they were only on the root rib ends, two on the
center section and two on the wing roots.
I built my Piet to the UK plans with the aileron quick connect.
Cheers
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 12:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing
<glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
Peter,
Thanks for the response. Picture shows me exactly what I was wondering
about.
Question: Do the ribs with the vertical members go on the wing tip end AND
the root? I see them in your picture on the root ribs. I've got 15 ribs to
go and I'm trying to figure out how many of them are of the non-standard
type (different gussets, vertical truss members, etc.) since once the
standard ones are done changes will need to be made to the jig.
Great site, thanks!
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85154#85154
--
2:58 PM
--
2:58 PM
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rib stiching advice |
In a message dated 1/3/2007 2:57:00 PM Central Standard Time, luther@gci.net
writes:
Douwe,
Thanks for the additional advice, I finished lacing both wings last Monday
"New Years Day". I worked alone and used four needles. I stood the wing up
and had plenty of light on both sides of the wing to help look through the wing
to see the hole on the other side.
Mike
Mike,
Did you happen to count how many stiches you put in ? I seem to remember I
put almost 500 stiches in my one piece wing.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing |
Glen,
The ribs with the vertical sticks go both on the tip and the root ribs. The
root ribs also get the 2" wide ply,(very important) this stops the root rib
from distorting sideways, and pulling toward the tip.
This stops the fabric that changes direction, not to distort the rib. (the
fabric has GREAT strength,) and when you taughten the fabric, you'll hear
creaks and groans.
You need a nice straight root rib to match up to your center section, so you
can fit the alum. seal between the two.
(I used roof flashing from Home Depot, on a roll.)
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Root Rib - 3 Piece Wing
> <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
>
> Peter,
> Thanks for the response. Picture shows me exactly what I was wondering
> about.
>
> Question: Do the ribs with the vertical members go on the wing tip end AND
> the root? I see them in your picture on the root ribs. I've got 15 ribs
> to go and I'm trying to figure out how many of them are of the
> non-standard type (different gussets, vertical truss members, etc.) since
> once the standard ones are done changes will need to be made to the jig.
>
> Great site, thanks!
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85154#85154
>
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks guys for the advice on the oil temperatures. I suppose it's better to have
low temps. rather than high temps. But it is strange to be flying around
and see relatively low temperatures. These recent flights have been my first
flights with the cooler weather. For the time of year though we have had fantastic
flying weather.
I think I'm going to try the blanket idea too. I'll look into the different suppliers
and see what I can find.
Thanks again guys!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85274#85274
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Low oil temps in winter |
Shawn,
I missed your posting before I posted the last message. I'm going to print off
your suggestions and try to use some of them. I think you have some great ideas.
I plan to continue flying right on through the winter. In my opinion it
is some of the nicest flying weather. I have a firewall mount heat box that
I thought about making up a muff for it. It would be nice to have 'not as cold'
air blowing up my pant leg! Thinking about some homemade wooden skis now!
Just need that snow.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85277#85277
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rib stiching advice |
Hello Douwe,
I remember meeting and talking with you at Brodhead. How is your project coming
along? If I remember correctly you were in contact with Larry Williams. I
seemed to have lost his current email address. Would you happen to have it?
My email is EmchAir@aol.com, if you happen to have it could you send it to me?
Thanks!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85279#85279
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | rib construction |
Hi Ben
I am trying to figure out what you are doing wrong.No notching required.
Send pictures or send phone # .
Or send me your address I have some spare rib sections.
Dale Mpls
> [Original Message]
> From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/31/2006 2:06:36 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib construction
>
<ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello Group,
>
> Hopefully everyone had great christmas! My question is on the rib
costruction. I've got my first rib almost done however my question is on
the gusset plate that sits on the sides of the rib in front. does 2 1/8" x
3/4: sound right? then what about this 1/2x1/2" block that the plans talk
about does that somehow get nothced out and gets glued in? If anyone wants
see pictures I can post some.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben Ramler
> St. Cloud, MN
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Oil breather condensation and cold weather flying |
Don, you may already know this but, One thing to consider about that condensation,
If it is cold enough your breather tube can freeze. On a most certified
aircraft the breather tube will have a hole cut in the front side about 6-12
inches from the end. The hole is usually kept inside the cowling so the warm
air exiting at the bottom will keep the breather tube above freezing, and would
let the crankcase breath if the end out in the slipstream freezes.
Shad
Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
Do you guys with cub type eyebrows on Continental engines have trouble getting
the oil temp. up in cooler weather. I stopped on the way home from work tonight
and got about half an hour or so in and never saw above 110 deg. oil temp. Outside
air temp. was 38 deg. A couple of days ago it was upper 40's, flew for
over an hour and never saw more than 115 deg. The thing I really don't like about
this is the condensation that forms and comes out the oil breather at these
temps. Can't imagine what the water condensation is doing to the inside of the
engine.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85073#85073
__________________________________________________
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Oil breather condensation and cold weather flying |
Thanks Shad, I did not know that. I will keep an eye on it and may even add a
hole.
Thanks again,
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85288#85288
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Don wrote-
>Thinking about some homemade wooden skis now! Just need that snow.
When I lived in Oregon, I thought about skis to extend the year and to open
up some possibilities for flying off of areas that are beautiful in winter
but impossible to get to in a car or truck. Skis came to mind. A lot of my
"stuff" has been purchased at flea markets and pawn shops, such as my ski
boots, ski poles, skis, camp stove, tents, tools, and lots of other stuff.
What I saw in the pawn shop that intrigued me were snowboards that are
several years old, nobody wants to be caught dead on the slopes with them,
cost less than $50 apiece but seem like they would be perfect for skis for a
light plane. I could be wrong, but it would seem like a pair of snowboards
(matched pair) with some fabricated mounts could work for a light plane.
Never got around to experimenting with the idea, and Texas doesn't seem to
have much snow ;o) Maybe over on the Monahans sand dunes-?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|