---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/06/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:48 AM - CAD versus cardboard (Steve Glass) 2. 05:16 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 01/05/07 (Bill Weir) 3. 05:24 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard[Scanned] (Rob Hart) 4. 06:59 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Amsafetyc@aol.com) 5. 07:12 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Bill Rayfield) 6. 07:39 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Robert Gow) 7. 10:13 AM - Re: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows (Rick Holland) 8. 05:53 PM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (HelsperSew@aol.com) 9. 08:19 PM - Re: Tough love........ (shad bell) 10. 10:43 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 01/05/07 (Clif Dawson) 11. 11:17 PM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Johnwoods) 12. 11:18 PM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Glenn Thomas) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:06 AM PST US From: "Steve Glass" Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard Hi I have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet started building. It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list. I would guess around mid 50's. Assuming that I would guess only a portion are up on Cad. I'm 59 CAD would be great for documenting patterns such as the eyebrow currently in cardboard. The eyebrow question will surface again in a year or so but the patterns might not. If we had a cad file they could be reproduced again and again. These files could live on the Matronics site to be accessed by all. I have seen mention of some of people putting the Piet into CAD perhaps somebody would document the pieces that we all seem to need every once in a while. It will take some time but we could build a good library of important bits. Interested to hear your thoughts. Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:08 AM PST US From: "Bill Weir" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 01/05/07 Bob Gow, I didn't catch that it was a partially built Piet that you were considering importing ino Canada. don't take this one to Transport Canada but lean on you local MDRA inspector to inspect look inside the wings etc. with a video camera on a stick. Acording to our local ispector he was able to make good inspection as he watched the screen and I don't think they did, but it would have been possible to record and save the images. Bill Weir >> Time: 07:43:19 AM PST US >> From: "Robert Gow" >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Importing an unfinished homebuilt into Canada. >> >> I`m interested in Cart`s Pietenpol but there are some issues importing it >> to >> Canada. My first contact with the inspectors here was not as good as I >> had >> hoped. The tell me I'll need a pre-cover inspection if I want to import >> it >> and finish the project in Canada. That means removing the fabric. I do >> not want to rip the fabric off this airplane to get it inspected. >> >> Or, as a finished aircraft, the aircraft must have a 100 hours on it >> before >> it can be imported. >> >> Does anyone have an idea how to avoid this? >> >> Perhaps I could complete it or have it completed as a US aircraft and fly >> it >> under US registry for the first 100 hours. But can you register a US >> aircraft to a non-citizen/ non-resident? >> >> Or perhaps I can get the pre-cover inspection waived if there is evidence >> of >> an FAA pre-cover inspection. Is there a precedent for this? >> >> Or I can look into ultra-light classification but I do not believe I >> could >> carry a passenger which is not acceptable to me. >> >> Bob > .ca> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Importing an unfinished homebuilt into Canada. >> >> I`m interested in Cart`s Pietenpol but there are some issues importing it >> to >> Canada. My first contact with the inspectors here was not as good as I >> had >> hoped. The tell me I'll need a pre-cover inspection if I want to import >> it >> and finish the project in Canada. That means removing the fabric. I do >> not want to rip the fabric off this airplane to get it inspected. >> >> Or, as a finished aircraft, the aircraft must have a 100 hours on it >> before >> it can be imported. >> >> Does anyone have an idea how to avoid this? >> >> Perhaps I could complete it or have it completed as a US aircraft and fly >> it >> under US registry for the first 100 hours. But can you register a US >> aircraft to a non-citizen/ non-resident? >> >> Or perhaps I can get the pre-cover inspection waived if there is evidence >> of >> an FAA pre-cover inspection. Is there a precedent for this? >> >> Or I can look into ultra-light classification but I do not believe I >> could >> carry a passenger which is not acceptable to me. >> >> Bob ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard[Scanned] From: "Rob Hart" Hi Steve 39 years old, 3 kids (all 13 and under), and have been planning the Piet since 1992. In my field (radiology), CAD = Computer Assisted Diagnosis. I suspect computer aided design might be more useful in present endeavours! I am now around 50% through the mockup fuselage; still yet to order the timber for the real one. Have set aside the next decade to finish the project, although this may be expedited by recent friendships with local builders (thanks Peter, John and Graham!). "Low and slow" doesn't just apply to the aircraft! Best regards Rob & Co Perth, Western Australia. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Glass Sent: Saturday, 6 January 2007 9:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard[Scanned] Hi I have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet started building. It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list. I would guess around mid 50's. Assuming that I would guess only a portion are up on Cad. I'm 59 CAD would be great for documenting patterns such as the eyebrow currently in cardboard. The eyebrow question will surface again in a year or so but the patterns might not. If we had a cad file they could be reproduced again and again. These files could live on the Matronics site to be accessed by all. I have seen mention of some of people putting the Piet into CAD perhaps somebody would document the pieces that we all seem to need every once in a while. It will take some time but we could build a good library of important bits. Interested to hear your thoughts. Steve in Maine This message, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, copy or retain this e-mail or the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. AION Diagnostics, Level 2, 40-48 Subiaco Square Road, Subiaco 6008, Australia, Phone: +61 (8) 6461 9400, Fax: +61 (8) 6461 9499 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard From: Amsafetyc@aol.com Hi, john here age 55 builder wanna be! Got many of the essentials: prints, desire, love of flying and the low and slow idea of open cockpit. Still lacking fundimental elements: place to build, tools, time and skill. The more I read the less confidence I have. I am better with wrenches and metal than I am with wood and glue. I have been hot for the piet since I learned about them and saw one. So its been a few years! The desire has not diminished, I have chased a few projects to buy with no success. Always something to prevent the deal! I have a cad program, don't know how to use it efficiently to create laser cut drawings for my metal parts, but have access to the metal and resources to get it cut. That's my story and I am sticking to it! John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Glass" To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard Hi I have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet started building. It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list. I would guess around mid 50's. Assuming that I would guess only a portion are up on Cad. I'm 59 CAD would be great for documenting patterns such as the eyebrow currently in cardboard. The eyebrow question will surface again in a year or so but the patterns might not. If we had a cad file they could be reproduced again and again. These files could live on the Matronics site to be accessed by all. I have seen mention of some of people putting the Piet into CAD perhaps somebody would document the pieces that we all seem to need every once in a while. It will take some time but we could build a good library of important bits. Interested to hear your thoughts. Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard From: "Bill Rayfield" Howdy piet list First post, just been lurking for a while FYI - I'm 30, married, living in Newnan, Georgia In regards to parts being cad drawn, I would be willing to knock a few drawings out. I am a mechanical engineer and have access to AutoCAD and Inventor (3D modeling). I don't have experience with much of this stuff, so I couldn't design the parts, but I could generate electronic versions of paper patterns and the like. Let me know if there's interest Bill ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:53 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard Bob here. Like to think of myself as 35 (Hexadecimal). I've got thousands of hours drivin' tube, though mostly electrical. I can do some 2D in AutoCAD. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Rayfield Sent: January 6, 2007 10:11 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard Howdy piet list First post, just been lurking for a while FYI - I'm 30, married, living in Newnan, Georgia In regards to parts being cad drawn, I would be willing to knock a few drawings out. I am a mechanical engineer and have access to AutoCAD and Inventor (3D modeling). I don't have experience with much of this stuff, so I couldn't design the parts, but I could generate electronic versions of paper patterns and the like. Let me know if there's interest Bill ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:51 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows Nice drawings Hans, what software do you use to make them? Thanks Rick On 1/4/07, Hans Vander Voort wrote: > > hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> > > Gene, > > Expand your search Aeronca Champ, Taylorcraft and J3 all have the same > type > of "eyebrow" > > $500 seems excessive for something you can easily make yourself for a lot > less. > > I made my own for my Corvair ( I call them Cooling ears) > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/fileslist2.cfm?AlbumID=74 > Different dimension but same concept. > > Most important is the "scoop" dimension, measure a J3's and make a card > board prototype template. > Transfer this to Aluminum sheet, cut, drill, bend and pop rivet and your > done. > > Hans > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:56 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard John, You guys talking about these CAD drawings are making my eyes glaze over. Stop with the nonsence and just start making some ribs. At this rate you will never get going! You need to start with what you CAN do. Nobody needs any "place to build" to make a rib jig and start producing ribs. A few sticks of spruce and a hand saw and glue are all you need. There has been a lot of talk about tough love and kicks-in-the-butt's on this site as of late. Here's some more---GET STARTED! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:53 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tough love........ To All, QUIT YOUR CRYING AND GO DO SOME FLYING!!!!!! All this senimental stuff is making me sick. Shad PS Just kidding.....GO BUCKEYES!! __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:17 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 01/05/07 That reminds me! I'd completely forgotten. Last year sometime in June, the city works guys came here to check the drain system and they had a video snake. I'm not suggesting you contact your local city or plumber though. Who knows where their snakes have been! But there should be other inspection companies that have something similiar. Clif > > Bob Gow, > > I didn't catch that it was a partially built Piet that you were > considering importing ino Canada. don't take this one to Transport Canada > but lean on you local MDRA inspector to inspect look inside the wings etc. > with a video camera on a stick. Acording to our local ispector he was able > to make good inspection as he watched the screen and I don't think they > did, but it would have been possible to record and save the images. > > Bill Weir ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:47 PM PST US From: "Johnwoods" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard Dan, I agree with you. I'm an engineer and know AutoCAD and thought about redrawing the plans but asked "why?" and dropped the idea quick smart. The original drawings are all you need plus some help from this pool of practical knowledge. I second your motion....just get building. I know I am! Having said that, I will do drawings for the metal fittings, under cart and any to help get the geometry right. JohnW -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: Sunday, 7 January 2007 10:53 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard John, You guys talking about these CAD drawings are making my eyes glaze over. Stop with the nonsence and just start making some ribs. At this rate you will never get going! You need to start with what you CAN do. Nobody needs any "place to build" to make a rib jig and start producing ribs. A few sticks of spruce and a hand saw and glue are all you need. There has been a lot of talk about tough love and kicks-in-the-butt's on this site as of late. Here's some more---GET STARTED! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard From: "Glenn Thomas" Dan's right. I've got a rib building process going in an 8' x 12' shed. In that small space I have a table saw, 2 belt sanders a drill press, bandsaw, scroll saw, grinder and a router table ...and that's just the bench tools. I got the Tony Bingelis books and he gives some good tips on optimizing space. I got to where I knew if I continued "waiting for the day" it probably wouldn't come so I did what I had to and I feel like I've got plenty of room. When I wrap up the ribs soon I'll juggle things around so I can do the tail feathers. There's hidden advantages to small workspaces, they're easier (cheaper) to heat. Oh yeah, there's a kerosene heater in there too. If you really want to build this thing, just do it. You won't regret it! Most interesting and fun thing I've ever done. Decided to build it on 42nd birthday, completed first rib last April or May and just turned 43 a few months ago. Married 22 years with a kid in college. On a budget of about $2000 a year this is not something anybody with the interest couldn't learn to do or afford. Go for it! -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85990#85990 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.