---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/08/07: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:40 AM - Re: builders ages (Gene & Tammy) 2. 04:16 AM - Re: builders ages () 3. 04:40 AM - Re: Kerosene Heater (Glenn Thomas) 4. 07:39 AM - Weld cracks found (HelsperSew@aol.com) 5. 08:31 AM - Re: prop (Dick Navratil) 6. 08:35 AM - Re: Weld cracks found (Phillips, Jack) 7. 08:55 AM - Re: List: Builder's Ages (Ben Williams) 8. 09:12 AM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Steve Eldredge) 9. 09:15 AM - Re: builders ages (Steve Eldredge) 10. 09:43 AM - Re: builders ages (HelsperSew@aol.com) 11. 09:54 AM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Jeff Boatright) 12. 10:03 AM - Re: builders ages () 13. 10:09 AM - waistlines (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 14. 10:26 AM - Re: builders ages (Phillips, Jack) 15. 10:38 AM - Re: Another dumb question (Phillips, Jack) 16. 11:36 AM - John Dilatush's prop (Oscar Zuniga) 17. 11:59 AM - prop size 65 Continental (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 18. 12:31 PM - Re: waistlines (Jeff Boatright) 19. 01:18 PM - Re: builders ages (walt evans) 20. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: Kerosene Heater (walt evans) 21. 01:24 PM - Re: builders ages (walt evans) 22. 01:32 PM - Re: waistlines (Steve Eldredge) 23. 01:38 PM - Re: Weld cracks found (walt evans) 24. 02:22 PM - Re: Weld cracks found (Jack T. Textor) 25. 03:04 PM - off topic vid link (walt evans) 26. 03:13 PM - average age (glich7@juno.com) 27. 03:17 PM - Re: Weld cracks found (walt evans) 28. 03:56 PM - Re: average age (walt evans) 29. 04:15 PM - Re: prop (Don Emch) 30. 04:45 PM - Re: Weld cracks found (HelsperSew@aol.com) 31. 05:40 PM - Re: prop (gcardinal) 32. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: prop (Dick Navratil) 33. 07:50 PM - Re: prop (Don Emch) 34. 09:05 PM - Re: Weld cracks found (walt evans) 35. 10:23 PM - Re: builders ages (Clif Dawson) 36. 10:41 PM - Re: builders ages (Rob Stapleton) 37. 11:50 PM - Re: Weld cracks found (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:01 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Walt, Your tank looks really good. I was wondering about the welding. I have never welded and I think any welding I need done I will farm out. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Gene, Yeah, I used the shape that was shown in the original plans. Made Posterboard (Oaktag for us older guys) patterns, and cut it out of soft aluminum. Learned how to TIG weld and thought it was easy. After I welded both this tank and the main tank, filled it with water. Could have used them for a watering can. :^). Asked a deal with my friend Don C. and he rewelded both tanks to perfection. Right now he's building about his 5th project,,,A Titan Tornado. Here's my main tank walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Walt, very nice! Where did you get your fuel tank? Did you build it? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Jack, Nice site. See your favorite ,,,Destin, Fl My parents lived in Ft Walton Beach for years. When visiting, always had to go see that beautiful beach. Here's some pics of my center section walt evans NX140DL do not archive "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Jack Textor, 53.like to be flying by 55 if I'm lucky. Working on center section, wings ready for assembly, tail feathers done, fuselage and gear almost done, 99% to go! www.textors.com do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages From: Riding in on this letter to say I'm 60 years young and flying,fliing,flizing.HAHAHA is that one still going round? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: January 7, 2007 10:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Mike C. 47 and still keeping to my goal of keeping my waistline measurement under my age:) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Kerosene Heater From: "Glenn Thomas" Larry, Thanks for letting me know about the heater. I'll stop using it and look for something like you mentioned. I'll have to go back and destroy one of my ribs to see how it fails. Was the kerosene heater going during building or your friends ribs? If so, what did he do? -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86277#86277 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:08 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Hi Piet'ers As of late I have been fabricating my straight axle landing gear. I elected to use .120" wall thick 1 1/2" O.D. 4130 tube for the axle. There has been a lot of debate on this subject, of what is sufficient wall thickness for this axle. After the misfortunate forced landing of Iccarus Plummet a couple of years ago there was substantial discussion on this site on the subject. The BHP Flying and Glider plans call for a 12 gauge tube, which equates to .109" wall thickness, so I figure I'm a little thicker, plus a stronger alloy. Anyway, I welded onto my axle two 1/2" dia. tubes to act as anti-rotate devices so the axle can't rotate when the brakes are applied (a-la-Mike Cuy). I then took it over to the local engine shop on the other side of the airport here in Poplar Grove, with instructions to Mag-na-flux (magnetic particle non-destructive test) the welds. To my surprise they found two cracks! It was explained to me that when the weld cools, sometimes the weld area shrinks and "pulls" away from the base metal, thus causing the crack. I had to go back and grind-out the cracks, and re-weld, then re-inspect. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:48 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop Chuck >From what I can see from the pic in the catalog it appears to be a bubble tape. If it will give extra rpm on take off, for $25.00 I'll give it a try. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop In a message dated 1/7/2007 10:50:59 PM Central Standard Time, horzpool@goldengate.net writes: I was just sitting in front of the t.v. paging thru the Wicks cataloug. I happened to spot on pages 283-284, items called a "Prop Kit". They are a Vortelator device that clain to add 20-50 rpm and increase speed. Has anyone tried one of these? Any power increase with an A-65 would help. Also, I just read the post by Don Emch. I run a Senenich 72-42. His numbers are much better than mine for climb and speed. Does anyone else have a similar prop? Don, do you get a full static run up with that prop? I don't care about the speed but your climb is better than my 200-250 fpm. Dick N. Dick, Is that Vortelator device anything like Dimple Tape ? Bill Rewey has that on his prop, and I think he claims that it increased the rpm about 50 rpm. I have my homebuilt 72 / 42 and have similar performance as you do. Gene, Both numbers are in Inches. 72" diameter, and 42" pitch. The pitch is how far the prop will advance in one revolution, with a theoretical No Slip condition. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:35 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found From: "Phillips, Jack" I probably had the same thing on my original axle on Icarus Plummet, hence the cracks (which, not surprisingly, originated at the same weld you are describing). When I built the new axle, I did a dye-penetrant inspection of the welds before and after sending it out for heat treating. No cracks this time, and so far, 75 hours (and many bad landings) of trouble free operation. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC, where it was clear and 72 degrees Saturday, so I put 1.5 hours on old Icarus, including another bad landing (not surprising in the 15 knot crosswind) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Hi Piet'ers As of late I have been fabricating my straight axle landing gear. I elected to use .120" wall thick 1 1/2" O.D. 4130 tube for the axle. There has been a lot of debate on this subject, of what is sufficient wall thickness for this axle. After the misfortunate forced landing of Iccarus Plummet a couple of years ago there was substantial discussion on this site on the subject. The BHP Flying and Glider plans call for a 12 gauge tube, which equates to .109" wall thickness, so I figure I'm a little thicker, plus a stronger alloy. Anyway, I welded onto my axle two 1/2" dia. tubes to act as anti-rotate devices so the axle can't rotate when the brakes are applied (a-la-Mike Cuy). I then took it over to the local engine shop on the other side of the airport here in Poplar Grove, with instructions to Mag-na-flux (magnetic particle non-destructive test) the welds. To my surprise they found two cracks! It was explained to me that when the weld cools, sometimes the weld area shrinks and "pulls" away from the base metal, thus causing the crack. I had to go back and grind-out the cracks, and re-weld, then re-inspect. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:00 AM PST US From: Ben Williams Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: List: Builder's Ages Ben Williams, 35. Ribs on one piece spars, tail feathers and corvair core. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:13 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Duane Woolsey? From: "Steve Eldredge" Duane owns the hangar next to mine. He and I flew out to Brodhead and OSH in 99' he sold his plane during the show, and it went to Terre Haute Indiana. I heard that it was ground looped not long after and the prop was destroyed. The fellows contacted Duane and he carved another one himself. He only built those two props that I know of, unless he did one for John Dilatush. The prop was unique in shape, and in sound. It made a whistle sound at idle, which made for a cool sounding approach and landing. I'd be interested to know if his plane is still flying... Duane hasn't done much flying since 99', but he and a partner did buy a GN1 with an A-65, that is a bit on the heavy side. He has also had two partially completed Air-Bike projects in the hangar for years. Steve E steve@byu.edu -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Duane Woolsey? Duane Woolsey is not on this list. He sold the plane back in 98 (?) or there about. It had a Subaru AE81. I don't know the current owner. Steve Eldredge in Utah might know how to get in touch with Duane. John Dilatush used an Turbo AE82 in his, by the way. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 5:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Duane Woolsey? > > Duane, > > I just saw a photo of your plane at westcoastpiet.com. What engine and > prop are you using? The prop seems huge. > > Thanks, > > Jeff > -- > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Atlanta, GA 30322 > Editor-in-Chief > Molecular Vision > http://www.molvis.org/ > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages From: "Steve Eldredge" Steve E Started building at age 26. First flight at age 29. Now 330hrs at age 38. The Piet is the only way I've been able to stay in the air at all during the intense family phase of raising children... Thanks Bernard! Note to Mike C, waistline=age currently Steve Eldredge steve@byu.edu From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Mike C. 47 and still keeping to my goal of keeping my waistline measurement under my age:) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:28 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Mike, You guys that have the waistlines progressing with your age.........Sorry to be the one to tell you this................at risk of stating the obvious......................................YOU ARE GETTING ABOUT 5 LBS CLOSER TO THE MAX GROSS WEIGHT WITH EACH PASSING YEAR! (INCH) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. 149 Lbs :) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:11 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Duane Woolsey? Steve, Thanks for the information. Was the prop as long in real-life and it looks in the photo? Also, how did it perform? Thanks, Jeff At 10:11 AM -0700 1/8/07, Steve Eldredge wrote: > >Duane owns the hangar next to mine. He and I flew out to Brodhead and >OSH in 99' he sold his plane during the show, and it went to Terre >Haute Indiana. I heard that it was ground looped not long after and the >prop was destroyed. The fellows contacted Duane and he carved another >one himself. He only built those two props that I know of, unless he >did one for John Dilatush. The prop was unique in shape, and in sound. >It made a whistle sound at idle, which made for a cool sounding approach >and landing. I'd be interested to know if his plane is still flying... >Duane hasn't done much flying since 99', but he and a partner did buy a >GN1 with an A-65, that is a bit on the heavy side. He has also had two >partially completed Air-Bike projects in the hangar for years. > > >Steve E > >steve@byu.edu -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages From: YAYA tell me about it. I feel every time I get into my plane that I am putting it on rather than getting in! I weigh 200lbs now and I plan on loosing a further 50lbs but Christmas holidays have not helped in the area one bit! I should be 140lbs for my 5'3" frame but I will be quite happy with being 150.I just know that if I loose the 50lbs I will get up to 90 mph out of the 80 hp Franklin as well or at least so I've been told and I don't want to burst their bubble. I'd like to prove them right. Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: January 8, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Mike, You guys that have the waistlines progressing with your age.........Sorry to be the one to tell you this................at risk of stating the obvious......................................YOU ARE GETTING ABOUT 5 LBS CLOSER TO THE MAX GROSS WEIGHT WITH EACH PASSING YEAR! (INCH) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. 149 Lbs :) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: waistlines From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Great responses to the waistline vs. age stats ! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages From: "Phillips, Jack" I'm working on it as well. The holidays put me at 204 lbs, which is a bit much even for my 6'2" frame. I've gone on a diet and hope to get down under 185. Have lost 7 lbs so far - still a long way to go. Ain't no fun either. For the record, I am 53. I was 43 when I started working on my Pietenpol and 51 when I flew it for the first time. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule@bell.ca Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages YAYA tell me about it. I feel every time I get into my plane that I am putting it on rather than getting in! I weigh 200lbs now and I plan on loosing a further 50lbs but Christmas holidays have not helped in the area one bit! I should be 140lbs for my 5'3" frame but I will be quite happy with being 150.I just know that if I loose the 50lbs I will get up to 90 mph out of the 80 hp Franklin as well or at least so I've been told and I don't want to burst their bubble. I'd like to prove them right. Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: January 8, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Mike, You guys that have the waistlines progressing with your age.........Sorry to be the one to tell you this................at risk of stating the obvious......................................YOU ARE GETTING ABOUT 5 LBS CLOSER TO THE MAX GROSS WEIGHT WITH EACH PASSING YEAR! (INCH) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. 149 Lbs :) _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question From: "Phillips, Jack" I've got a Sensenich 72 x 42 on mine. Performance is pretty good, but I can't quite hit redline RPM at full throttle in level flight. A 44" pitch might not allow the engine to develop full power for climb abd takeoff. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question Has anyone used a 72-44 prop with their A-65 Piet.? How has it worked out? I need a new prop and have seen one of the above for sale. In the past some have advised that they use a 72-43 with good results so was wondering what 1 more degree of pitch would do. Anyone know of a good prop for sale? Gene _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:49 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: John Dilatush's prop There's a pretty good picture of the interesting prop that John had on "Mountain Piet", the first picture at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John2.html . I don't remember him saying anything about it having a whistling sound to it, but with the Subaru running at 1.2x the prop speed and running a turbocharger, there's no telling what kind of sounds that thing makes! What a beautiful airplane. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop size 65 Continental From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" I'm running the same prop size/pitch as Jack Phillips with a wood 72 x 42 but manufactured by Falcon. Climb about per Don E.'s figures with cruise about 72 mph. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:55 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: waistlines 44x34: age by waist, or poor prop choice for a Piet? Enquiring minds... At 12:03 PM -0600 1/8/07, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote: >Great responses to the waistline vs. age stats ! > > -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:38 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Gene, Yeah, messing with a TIG welder is fun, but best left to someone who knows. Not just for the money saving part,,,I just couldn't imagine finding a leak now in my top tank and have to destroy the fabric to get the tank out and repair it. It just wouldn't make sense walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:39 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Walt, Your tank looks really good. I was wondering about the welding. I have never welded and I think any welding I need done I will farm out. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Gene, Yeah, I used the shape that was shown in the original plans. Made Posterboard (Oaktag for us older guys) patterns, and cut it out of soft aluminum. Learned how to TIG weld and thought it was easy. After I welded both this tank and the main tank, filled it with water. Could have used them for a watering can. :^). Asked a deal with my friend Don C. and he rewelded both tanks to perfection. Right now he's building about his 5th project,,,A Titan Tornado. Here's my main tank walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Walt, very nice! Where did you get your fuel tank? Did you build it? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Jack, Nice site. See your favorite ,,,Destin, Fl My parents lived in Ft Walton Beach for years. When visiting, always had to go see that beautiful beach. Here's some pics of my center section walt evans NX140DL do not archive "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:12 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Jack Textor, 53.like to be flying by 55 if I'm lucky. Working on center section, wings ready for assembly, tail feathers done, fuselage and gear almost done, 99% to go! www.textors.com do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:54 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Kerosene Heater Think the heater is when you are doing fabric. Saw a beautiful Cub with spots all over the back in the yellow. Said it was from kerosene heater walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Thomas" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Kerosene Heater > > > Larry, > Thanks for letting me know about the heater. I'll stop using it and look > for something like you mentioned. I'll have to go back and destroy one of > my ribs to see how it fails. > > Was the kerosene heater going during building or your friends ribs? If > so, what did he do? > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86277#86277 > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:20 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Know it's knot. :^) walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Riding in on this letter to say I'm 60 years young and flying,fliing,flizing.HAHAHA is that one still going round? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: January 7, 2007 10:51 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Mike C. 47 and still keeping to my goal of keeping my waistline measurement under my age:) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:48 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: waistlines From: "Steve Eldredge" No, no, to get prop pitch it should be height x waist size Hence: 72x42 Steve E I thought everyone knew that. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: waistlines 44x34: age by waist, or poor prop choice for a Piet? Enquiring minds... At 12:03 PM -0600 1/8/07, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote: Great responses to the waistline vs. age stats ! -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:01 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found I think if 4130 is welded with oxy/act with basic proper cooling, cracks can virtually never form. I would imagine that your axle was either TIG, ed, MIG,ed or stick welded. You stated that "when the weld cooled" that doesn't happen with torch welding, the whole thing is red like a cherry, and when left in still air cools to a normalized condition. As per my Mentor,,,"weld 4130 with common filler rod with oxy/act, cool in still air, and you'll never have a problem" Just walter's 2 cents walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Hi Piet'ers As of late I have been fabricating my straight axle landing gear. I elected to use .120" wall thick 1 1/2" O.D. 4130 tube for the axle. There has been a lot of debate on this subject, of what is sufficient wall thickness for this axle. After the misfortunate forced landing of Iccarus Plummet a couple of years ago there was substantial discussion on this site on the subject. The BHP Flying and Glider plans call for a 12 gauge tube, which equates to .109" wall thickness, so I figure I'm a little thicker, plus a stronger alloy. Anyway, I welded onto my axle two 1/2" dia. tubes to act as anti-rotate devices so the axle can't rotate when the brakes are applied (a-la-Mike Cuy). I then took it over to the local engine shop on the other side of the airport here in Poplar Grove, with instructions to Mag-na-flux (magnetic particle non-destructive test) the welds. To my surprise they found two cracks! It was explained to me that when the weld cools, sometimes the weld area shrinks and "pulls" away from the base metal, thus causing the crack. I had to go back and grind-out the cracks, and re-weld, then re-inspect. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:59 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found From: "Jack T. Textor" Walt, Can you expand on "common filler rod"? I've heard it's best NOT to use 4130 filler. Thanks! Jack www.textors.com I think if 4130 is welded with oxy/act with basic proper cooling, cracks can virtually never form. I would imagine that your axle was either TIG, ed, MIG,ed or stick welded. You stated that "when the weld cooled" that doesn't happen with torch welding, the whole thing is red like a cherry, and when left in still air cools to a normalized condition. As per my Mentor,,,"weld 4130 with common filler rod with oxy/act, cool in still air, and you'll never have a problem" Just walter's 2 cents walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Hi Piet'ers As of late I have been fabricating my straight axle landing gear. I elected to use .120" wall thick 1 1/2" O.D. 4130 tube for the axle. There has been a lot of debate on this subject, of what is sufficient wall thickness for this axle. After the misfortunate forced landing of Iccarus Plummet a couple of years ago there was substantial discussion on this site on the subject. The BHP Flying and Glider plans call for a 12 gauge tube, which equates to .109" wall thickness, so I figure I'm a little thicker, plus a stronger alloy. Anyway, I welded onto my axle two 1/2" dia. tubes to act as anti-rotate devices so the axle can't rotate when the brakes are applied (a-la-Mike Cuy). I then took it over to the local engine shop on the other side of the airport here in Poplar Grove, with instructions to Mag-na-flux (magnetic particle non-destructive test) the welds. To my surprise they found two cracks! It was explained to me that when the weld cools, sometimes the weld area shrinks and "pulls" away from the base metal, thus causing the crack. I had to go back and grind-out the cracks, and re-weld, then re-inspect. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:28 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: off topic vid link Oh well it's winter. Check out the little Cri-Cri Quite a screamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlV8WJ6N3nU&NR walt evans NX140DL do not archive "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:37 PM PST US From: "glich7@juno.com" Subject: Pietenpol-List: average age Walt, Sorry if things were not clear before, although I'm not sure what didn't make sense. None of what I wrote was ebonics or even shorthand really. In the interest of true communication, I will "translate" what I think you are referring to. Here goes. > Hey gang- that's anyone on the list who reads what I write and doesn't hate it. >Planning, gathering, doing building-related-stuff- In other words reading, researching, daydreaming, and talking the ears off any builder who would listen to a 'spring chicken' like me. >Small college student budget- I attend a university whose purpose, it seems, is to build buildings, sell books, make commercials, sell merchandise, do research, and occasionally educate me. All of this is accomplished through student loans and a part-time job which leaves me with just enough money to buy excuses for why I'm not building fast enough. >Doing my part to hold down the average- This refers to the fact that my age (22) helps hold down the group average and make us all a little younger by association. Or something like that. >I'd be happy to keep mine within 50%- Basically I'm way behind the eight ball when it comes to reducing my own personal 'ballast' but I'm working on it and it's just as much a part of my project as not adding other excess weight to the plane. I would like to lose at least 33% of what I weigh now (i.e. I am 150% of my Goal) >O-H-I-O! Go Bucks!- If you need help with this one, turn on your tv around 8pm eastern tonight, observe the TENS of thousands of screaming Ohio State fans who flew across the country and INVADED Arizona, just to be CLOSER to a game they don't even have tickets for, to cheer on their beloved Buckeyes. Then note that for every 50 Scarlet or Gray fans you see, if your sharp, you might find 1 Florida Gator standing motionless with their orange and blue covered up mostly, hoping their team can pull a miracle from their tiny bag of tricks. > Tim Hansen in "Buckeye Country" - Ohio ________________________________________________________________________ FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.com/products/online_calendar.pd ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:53 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Jack, At the moment the right name for the rod leaves my brain. I know that when I go to the weld shop, it's just the normal,,,Damn,,,I can't think of it. My Mentor said NOT to use 4130 filler rod. The filler rod is the same as Coathanger. Apparently this is the rod used for official repairs for an AP, this is what I fabricated my engine mount from, and the landing gear. ( and years ago if you saw me porpoising down the runway on this gear, you'd marvel at the weld strength) You buy it by the pound, in different diameters, depending on what thickness you are welding. Comes copper coated so it won't rust walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Walt, Can you expand on "common filler rod"? I've heard it's best NOT to use 4130 filler. Thanks! Jack www.textors.com I think if 4130 is welded with oxy/act with basic proper cooling, cracks can virtually never form. I would imagine that your axle was either TIG, ed, MIG,ed or stick welded. You stated that "when the weld cooled" that doesn't happen with torch welding, the whole thing is red like a cherry, and when left in still air cools to a normalized condition. As per my Mentor,,,"weld 4130 with common filler rod with oxy/act, cool in still air, and you'll never have a problem" Just walter's 2 cents walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Hi Piet'ers As of late I have been fabricating my straight axle landing gear. I elected to use .120" wall thick 1 1/2" O.D. 4130 tube for the axle. There has been a lot of debate on this subject, of what is sufficient wall thickness for this axle. After the misfortunate forced landing of Iccarus Plummet a couple of years ago there was substantial discussion on this site on the subject. The BHP Flying and Glider plans call for a 12 gauge tube, which equates to .109" wall thickness, so I figure I'm a little thicker, plus a stronger alloy. Anyway, I welded onto my axle two 1/2" dia. tubes to act as anti-rotate devices so the axle can't rotate when the brakes are applied (a-la-Mike Cuy). I then took it over to the local engine shop on the other side of the airport here in Poplar Grove, with instructions to Mag-na-flux (magnetic particle non-destructive test) the welds. To my surprise they found two cracks! It was explained to me that when the weld cools, sometimes the weld area shrinks and "pulls" away from the base metal, thus causing the crack. I had to go back and grind-out the cracks, and re-weld, then re-inspect. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:02 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: average age Tim, Now I gotcha, but it's about sports. I've never been an Atheletic Supporter. :^) walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: average age > > Walt, > Sorry if things were not clear before, although I'm not sure what > didn't make sense. None of what I wrote was ebonics or even shorthand > really. In the interest of true communication, I will "translate" what > I think you are referring to. Here goes. > >> Hey gang- that's anyone on the list who reads what I write and > doesn't hate it. > >>Planning, gathering, doing building-related-stuff- In other words > reading, researching, daydreaming, and talking the ears off any > builder who would listen to a 'spring chicken' like me. > >>Small college student budget- I attend a university whose purpose, it > seems, is to build buildings, sell books, make commercials, sell > merchandise, do research, and occasionally educate me. All of this is > accomplished through student loans and a part-time job which leaves me > with just enough money to buy excuses for why I'm not building fast > enough. > >>Doing my part to hold down the average- This refers to the fact that > my age (22) helps hold down the group average and make us all a little > younger by association. Or something like that. > >>I'd be happy to keep mine within 50%- Basically I'm way behind the > eight ball when it comes to reducing my own personal 'ballast' but I'm > working on it and it's just as much a part of my project as not adding > other excess weight to the plane. I would like to lose at least 33% of > what I weigh now (i.e. I am 150% of my Goal) > >>O-H-I-O! Go Bucks!- If you need help with this one, turn on your tv > around 8pm eastern tonight, observe the TENS of thousands of screaming > Ohio State fans who flew across the country and INVADED Arizona, just > to be CLOSER to a game they don't even have tickets for, to cheer on > their beloved Buckeyes. Then note that for every 50 Scarlet or Gray > fans you see, if your sharp, you might find 1 Florida Gator standing > motionless with their orange and blue covered up mostly, hoping their > team can pull a miracle from their tiny bag of tricks. > >> Tim Hansen in "Buckeye Country" - Ohio > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com > Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! > http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.com/products/online_calendar.pd > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop From: "Don Emch" Hi Dick, I've been looking into the prop thing for a little while now. I know the Sensenich 72 x 42 is kinda the standard for the A-65, but I think just about all of the planes that use that engine/prop combination are cleaner than the Piet. I've talked to a few prop builders and I've had three of them say a 74 x 38 or 74 x 40 would be good. I know mine is going the other direction than yours but I also think each plane is different. Weight is obviously always against climb and I think other less noticeable things affect it too. Among other things I think the bluntness of the cowl matters because it affects the useful air that is entering the prop 'disk'. I pirated and copied an awful lot of things from Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy. Our empty weights are within a pound of each other! The only real difference is his has the straight axle gear and mine has the split axle. He is running a Falcon 72 x 44 (I think the Falcon must be one of the best props out there). I have the Hegy 72 x 44. Even though they are very very similar I cannot catch him in a climb! On one occasion he even had his son with him while I was by myself and he took off slightly behind me and I couldn't get away from him!! Go figure! Then there's that Mike Cuy guy, he just has to be packing more than 65 hp! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86430#86430 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:42 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Walt, You are absolutely correct in your assumption. I TIG welded this axle. Dan Helsper Helsper Sewing Corp. 8186 Commerce Dr. Loves Park IL 61111 PH (815) 885-4365 FAX (815) 885-4366 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:30 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop The prop on NX18235 is a home made copy of a Sensenich 72 - 42. Max static rpm is 2100, max cruise rpm is ~2250 (giving 80 mph) 200 fpm climb from a 900' field elevation on an 80 deg. F. day at about 1050 pounds. Did a climb test this past summer and the climb rate at 6000 msl was equal to the climb rate passing through 2000' msl. 35 minutes after launching I was passing through 8000' and getting too cold to continue. The low rpm might be due to the leading edge of the prop being too blunt. It has just been recarved. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop I was just sitting in front of the t.v. paging thru the Wicks cataloug. I happened to spot on pages 283-284, items called a "Prop Kit". They are a Vortelator device that clain to add 20-50 rpm and increase speed. Has anyone tried one of these? Any power increase with an A-65 would help. Also, I just read the post by Don Emch. I run a Senenich 72-42. His numbers are much better than mine for climb and speed. Does anyone else have a similar prop? Don, do you get a full static run up with that prop? I don't care about the speed but your climb is better than my 200-250 fpm. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:57 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop Don You climb rate is so much better than mine that I would consider switching props. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop > > Hi Dick, > I've been looking into the prop thing for a little while now. I know the > Sensenich 72 x 42 is kinda the standard for the A-65, but I think just > about all of the planes that use that engine/prop combination are cleaner > than the Piet. I've talked to a few prop builders and I've had three of > them say a 74 x 38 or 74 x 40 would be good. I know mine is going the > other direction than yours but I also think each plane is different. > Weight is obviously always against climb and I think other less noticeable > things affect it too. Among other things I think the bluntness of the > cowl matters because it affects the useful air that is entering the prop > 'disk'. I pirated and copied an awful lot of things from Frank Pavliga's > Sky Gypsy. Our empty weights are within a pound of each other! The only > real difference is his has the straight axle gear and mine has the split > axle. He is running a Falcon 72 x 44 (I think the Falcon must be one of > the best props out there). I have the Hegy! > 72 x 44. Even though they are very very similar I cannot catch him in a > climb! On one occasion he even had his son with him while I was by myself > and he took off slightly behind me and I couldn't get away from him!! Go > figure! Then there's that Mike Cuy guy, he just has to be packing more > than 65 hp! > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86430#86430 > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop From: "Don Emch" Hi Dick, I would try to borrow one before I bought. Theoretically you should get better climb with with a lower pitch. If you are very serious about buying I would talk to some custom prop builders and based on information that you give them they can tailor one to suit you. A few of these guys are; Culver Props St. Croix Props Sterba Props I don't have their info. close by but I know they all have websites and I have personally talked with them. Ed Sterba actually carves each one by hand and can make virtually make almost any profile. Another thing to pay attention to is that a 72 x 42 from one company is not necessarily a 72 x 42 from another company. Then there are different airfoils, shapes, chords, etc. It almost hurts when you start to think just how different one make of prop could be from another make! Good Luck! Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86474#86474 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:19 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Yep, TIG and 4130 is a no, no. Without normalizing. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Walt, You are absolutely correct in your assumption. I TIG welded this axle. Dan Helsper Helsper Sewing Corp. 8186 Commerce Dr. Loves Park IL 61111 PH (815) 885-4365 FAX (815) 885-4366 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:11 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages So which is going to be cheaper, shortening the engine mount, or a new set of wing struts? :-) :-) Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:56 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages YAYA tell me about it. I feel every time I get into my plane that I am putting it on rather than getting in! I weigh 200lbs now and I plan on loosing a further 50lbs but Christmas holidays have not helped in the area one bit! I should be 140lbs for my 5'3" frame but I will be quite happy with being 150.I just know that if I loose the 50lbs I will get up to 90 mph out of the 80 hp Franklin as well or at least so I've been told and I don't want to burst their bubble. I'd like to prove them right. Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: January 8, 2007 12:42 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Mike, You guys that have the waistlines progressing with your age.........Sorry to be the one to tell you this................at risk of stating the obvious......................................YOU ARE GETTING ABOUT 5 LBS CLOSER TO THE MAX GROSS WEIGHT WITH EACH PASSING YEAR! (INCH) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. 149 Lbs :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 1/8/2007 4:12 PM ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:23 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages As a builder who is 55, I am far less by waistline than the previously mentioned waistlines, but now I am curious about the useful load, and what (lbs) is allowed in the back seat for proper CG. Any comments or clues, or better yet graphs and operators manual info...? Rob Stapleton, Anchorage, Alaska -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages So which is going to be cheaper, shortening the engine mount, or a new set of wing struts? :-) :-) Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:56 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: builders ages YAYA tell me about it. I feel every time I get into my plane that I am putting it on rather than getting in! I weigh 200lbs now and I plan on loosing a further 50lbs but Christmas holidays have not helped in the area one bit! I should be 140lbs for my 5'3" frame but I will be quite happy with being 150.I just know that if I loose the 50lbs I will get up to 90 mph out of the 80 hp Franklin as well or at least so I've been told and I don't want to burst their bubble. I'd like to prove them right. Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: January 8, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: builders ages Mike, You guys that have the waistlines progressing with your age.........Sorry to be the one to tell you this................at risk of stating the obvious......................................YOU ARE GETTING ABOUT 5 LBS CLOSER TO THE MAX GROSS WEIGHT WITH EACH PASSING YEAR! (INCH) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. 149 Lbs :) href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:53 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found When you weld you are eliminating all the heat treating that the steel went through to give it all that strength and reducing it back to 90'000 lb tensile. That's why you're supposed to splice two tubes with a fishmouth joint. Instead of the area of a circle you now have a much larger area of weld. And no, normalizing is not heat treating. So you want to use a rod that already has that softer material. It can't harden no matter how fast or slow the weld cools and thus won't crack. That doesn't give you permission to cool the weld with anything though, like water or a fan or even just a cool breeze. That will cause cracks in the rapidly cooling 4130 outside the weld. You can use a coat hanger for non life supporting stuff in a pinch but you don't know where it's been. :-) The normal everyday rod from your welding supplier is the stuff you want. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Jack, At the moment the right name for the rod leaves my brain. I know that when I go to the weld shop, it's just the normal,,,Damn,,,I can't think of it. My Mentor said NOT to use 4130 filler rod. The filler rod is the same as Coathanger. Apparently this is the rod used for official repairs for an AP, this is what I fabricated my engine mount from, and the landing gear. ( and years ago if you saw me porpoising down the runway on this gear, you'd marvel at the weld strength) You buy it by the pound, in different diameters, depending on what thickness you are welding. Comes copper coated so it won't rust walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Walt, Can you expand on "common filler rod"? I've heard it's best NOT to use 4130 filler. Thanks! Jack www.textors.com I think if 4130 is welded with oxy/act with basic proper cooling, cracks can virtually never form. I would imagine that your axle was either TIG, ed, MIG,ed or stick welded. You stated that "when the weld cooled" that doesn't happen with torch welding, the whole thing is red like a cherry, and when left in still air cools to a normalized condition. As per my Mentor,,,"weld 4130 with common filler rod with oxy/act, cool in still air, and you'll never have a problem" Just walter's 2 cents walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found Hi Piet'ers As of late I have been fabricating my straight axle landing gear. I elected to use .120" wall thick 1 1/2" O.D. 4130 tube for the axle. There has been a lot of debate on this subject, of what is sufficient wall thickness for this axle. After the misfortunate forced landing of Iccarus Plummet a couple of years ago there was substantial discussion on this site on the subject. The BHP Flying and Glider plans call for a 12 gauge tube, which equates to .109" wall thickness, so I figure I'm a little thicker, plus a stronger alloy. Anyway, I welded onto my axle two 1/2" dia. tubes to act as anti-rotate devices so the axle can't rotate when the brakes are applied (a-la-Mike Cuy). I then took it over to the local engine shop on the other side of the airport here in Poplar Grove, with instructions to Mag-na-flux (magnetic particle non-destructive test) the welds. To my surprise they found two cracks! It was explained to me that when the weld cools, sometimes the weld area shrinks and "pulls" away from the base metal, thus causing the crack. I had to go back and grind-out the cracks, and re-weld, then re-inspect. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 1/8/2007 4:12 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.