---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/09/07: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:13 AM - packing (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 2. 05:26 AM - Re: packing (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 3. 06:50 AM - pilot weight/was builders ages (Oscar Zuniga) 4. 07:49 AM - Re: pilot weight/was builders ages () 5. 07:52 AM - seeing Piets in person (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 6. 07:54 AM - Re: pilot weight/was builders ages (Roman Bukolt) 7. 08:05 AM - Re: seeing Piets in person (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 8. 08:18 AM - Re: seeing Piets in person () 9. 08:35 AM - McNuggets (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 10. 08:43 AM - Re: McNuggets () 11. 08:49 AM - ribs (Ben Ramler) 12. 09:00 AM - wings (Dick Navratil) 13. 09:02 AM - Re: ribs (Dick Navratil) 14. 09:18 AM - Re: wings (HelsperSew@aol.com) 15. 10:20 AM - Re: ribs (Ben Ramler) 16. 10:24 AM - Re: pilot weight/was builders ages (Rob Stapleton) 17. 10:36 AM - snow in Denver () 18. 11:14 AM - Operators Manual (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: prop (Rcaprd@aol.com) 20. 11:17 AM - Re: Weld cracks found (Rcaprd@aol.com) 21. 11:25 AM - Re: ribs (Jack T. Textor) 22. 11:30 AM - Re: ribs (Ed G.) 23. 12:14 PM - Making Rib Gussets (Bill Princell) 24. 02:24 PM - Propellers (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 25. 02:25 PM - Re: Making Rib Gussets (Steve Eldredge) 26. 02:50 PM - side business (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 27. 03:05 PM - Re: packing (Don Emch) 28. 03:48 PM - weight (TGSTONE236@aol.com) 29. 04:26 PM - Re: wings (Dick Navratil) 30. 04:52 PM - Re: wings& trailering (shad bell) 31. 04:57 PM - Re: McNuggets (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 32. 05:12 PM - Ohio piets planning on brodhead (shad bell) 33. 05:28 PM - Re: wings (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 34. 08:38 PM - Re: wings (3-piece vs. one piece) (Graham Hansen) 35. 09:20 PM - You know you like Pietenpols when... (Mike Whaley) 36. 09:20 PM - Re: Operators Manual (Rob Stapleton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: packing From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Well Don E., I wish I was packing more than a 65 Continental up front in my Pietenpol but what I'm packing on is the pounds so the old "reduce your takeoff weight" program goes into effect next Monday. (can't start multiple programs in the same week:)) What you gain with your x44 prop Don is a greater cruise speed than Frank and I since you mentioned 80 mph while if I'm not mistaken Frank has the x 42 prop which beats you in a climb but once in cruise you are the winner I'd imagine. (unless he's redlining it to make you feel bad and not telling you.....which is not out of the realm of possibility !) By the way, Don's airplane is one of the prettiest ponies out there and I hope he gets to bring it to Brodhead this summer---it is a real charmer. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:01 AM PST US From: Pietsrneat@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: packing In a message dated 1/9/2007 8:15:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov writes: By the way, Don's airplane is one of the prettiest ponies out there and I hope he gets to bring it to Brodhead this summer---it is a real charmer. Mike C. Yes, I wish others with beautiful ships would reconsider making the trek to Brodhead. Know what I mean, Mike? do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:11 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: pilot weight/was builders ages Rob wrote- >As a builder who is 55, I am far less by waistline than the previously >mentioned waistlines, but now I am curious about the useful load, and what >(lbs) is allowed in the back seat for proper CG. I'm about to do a new W&B on 41CC this weekend and I'll let you know how it turns out, but the biggest factor is what engine you have on the airplane. I've run many 'what-ifs' in the W&B spreadsheet on 41CC in its previous trim and can tell you a couple of things that the numbers show on this airplane. And it has a Continental A65-8, cabanes swung back 4", and split axle Cub-style gear. And I'm 55 and not "oversquare" in the waistline (32" on a good day, before dinner, without tucking in my shirt). One thing the numbers show is that my airplane should only be soloed from the rear seat, especially with full fuel (16 gal. in a header tank). Another thing is that there is a minimum pilot weight, solo with full fuel, of about 95 lbs. or the CG is too far forward. Another thing is that it's virtually impossible for the passenger's weight to affect the CG... I've tried passenger weights up to 350 lbs. with a 95 lb. pilot and I really don't believe that can physically be done by any 350 pounder I've ever seen. More realistic passenger weights do not change the CG to any appreciable extent. So... to your question. "Useful load" for 41CC is a pilot, passenger, full fuel, and a couple of headsets. There is essentially no place to put baggage, certainly not behind the pilot. On this airplane, that amounts to roughly 500 lbs. available for pilot and passenger. I've run scenarios (on paper) with large pilot and passenger and full fuel and you can put the airplane out of CG limits and over-gross, but I really don't believe it's physically possible to stuff two people that large into both cockpits, especially into the front. And more than that, my understanding is that the A65 won't pull the airplane up with any gusto in this configuration, especially on a warm day or at anything much above sea level. I'll let you know how the new W&B turns out. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pilot weight/was builders ages From: As I've said in a few back emails; I'm using a Franklin 80 hp. I'm 200lbs.I was 222lb when I first flew her. The empty weight is 777lbs and she is well within her weight and balance .I still feel a lot of forward stick when I'm in a level cruise condition. So if I am too heavy for that back seat, the pull on that stick certainly is no indication of that. I attribute that pull to be from the power of the engine at this time, given no other reason for it. Since the engine is mounted in a slightly downward angle, this is the only thing that makes sense to me because when I back off from the throttle the pull correspondingly is less and less. When I am on final there is no pull at all. I think for long trips I will be installing a bungee cord arrangement much like I have on my N3 Pup to help hold that stick back or else I'm going to get fatigued early in the trip. Unfortunately I have no picture in my album of that arrangement or I would attach it. Perhaps in the future I could scan a photo I have of that and send it along. Is anyone else experiencing this problem or is it just me? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: seeing Piets in person From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Com' on Ron, it would be faster for you to drive to Cleveland than to go to Brodhead (or stop on the way if I don't fly mine up) this spring and I'll give you an in-person tour. You might even be able to see Don E's and Frank P's on the way if they don't plan on flying up this summer to BH. I'll even let you buy me dinner:)) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:52 AM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pilot weight/was builders ages Oscar, I know Bill Rewey has flown passengers weighing in the 230 Lb. range and he is 200. His Piet is powered by an A-65 and he carries 14 gal. fuel. I believe his gross fully loaded at take off is something over 1220lbs. The climb out is nothing to brag about but the A-65 can handle it. Last Friday he and I flew my A-65 powered Piet. Our gross was 1213 lb. yielding a wing loading of 8.09 lb/sf. The climb out was very acceptable but then it was only 49 degrees OAT. CG was at 32.2% The front seat is so close to the C.G. that it'll never affect the aircraft performance except for wing and power loading. My 2 cents for what it's worth. Roman Bukolt NX 20795 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pilot weight/was builders ages > > > Rob wrote- > >>As a builder who is 55, I am far less by waistline than the previously >>mentioned waistlines, but now I am curious about the useful load, and what >>(lbs) is allowed in the back seat for proper CG. > > I'm about to do a new W&B on 41CC this weekend and I'll let you know how > it turns out, but the biggest factor is what engine you have on the > airplane. I've run many 'what-ifs' in the W&B spreadsheet on 41CC in its > previous trim and can tell you a couple of things that the numbers show on > this airplane. And it has a Continental A65-8, cabanes swung back 4", and > split axle Cub-style gear. And I'm 55 and not "oversquare" in the > waistline (32" on a good day, before dinner, without tucking in my shirt). > > One thing the numbers show is that my airplane should only be soloed from > the rear seat, especially with full fuel (16 gal. in a header tank). > Another thing is that there is a minimum pilot weight, solo with full > fuel, of about 95 lbs. or the CG is too far forward. Another thing is > that it's virtually impossible for the passenger's weight to affect the > CG... I've tried passenger weights up to 350 lbs. with a 95 lb. pilot and > I really don't believe that can physically be done by any 350 pounder I've > ever seen. More realistic passenger weights do not change the CG to any > appreciable extent. > > So... to your question. "Useful load" for 41CC is a pilot, passenger, > full fuel, and a couple of headsets. There is essentially no place to put > baggage, certainly not behind the pilot. On this airplane, that amounts > to roughly 500 lbs. available for pilot and passenger. I've run scenarios > (on paper) with large pilot and passenger and full fuel and you can put > the airplane out of CG limits and over-gross, but I really don't believe > it's physically possible to stuff two people that large into both > cockpits, especially into the front. And more than that, my understanding > is that the A65 won't pull the airplane up with any gusto in this > configuration, especially on a warm day or at anything much above sea > level. > > I'll let you know how the new W&B turns out. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Fixing up the home? Live Search can help > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:37 AM PST US From: Pietsrneat@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seeing Piets in person In a message dated 1/9/2007 10:54:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov writes: Com' on Ron, it would be faster for you to drive to Cleveland than to go to Brodhead (or stop on the way if I don't fly mine up) this spring and I'll give you an in-person tour. You might even be able to see Don E's and Frank P's on the way if they don't plan on flying up this summer to BH. I'll even let you buy me dinner:)) Mike C. You're on, my friend. Plan on my being there a day or so before Brodhead. You will feast on the best McNuggets someone else's money can buy. Ron Don not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: seeing Piets in person From: McNuggets! I would have thought a steakhouse would have been more appropriate with a large mug of ale! How do you think we got to these weights in the first place? A few McNuggets won't get you there! (;-) Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pietsrneat@aol.com Sent: January 9, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seeing Piets in person In a message dated 1/9/2007 10:54:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov writes: Com' on Ron, it would be faster for you to drive to Cleveland than to go to Brodhead (or stop on the way if I don't fly mine up) this spring and I'll give you an in-person tour. You might even be able to see Don E's and Frank P's on the way if they don't plan on flying up this summer to BH. I'll even let you buy me dinner:)) Mike C. You're on, my friend. Plan on my being there a day or so before Brodhead. You will feast on the best McNuggets someone else's money can buy. Ron Don not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: McNuggets From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" You know Harvey, I was thinking along the lines of a nice steakhouse or rib place myself but it looks like in the effort to minimize travel and entertainment costs Ron is going on the cheap with me but for the sake of the Pietenpol movement I'll show him my plane and then pass on the drive thru at Mc'Ds so he can get on the road again and not miss any of the great action in store at Brodhead ! Mike C. do not archive PS-- nice to see you love muffin's alive again ! The list was kind of quiet, but understandable with the holidays. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: McNuggets From: Amen to that;keep em flyin! Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: January 9, 2007 11:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: McNuggets You know Harvey, I was thinking along the lines of a nice steakhouse or rib place myself but it looks like in the effort to minimize travel and entertainment costs Ron is going on the cheap with me but for the sake of the Pietenpol movement I'll show him my plane and then pass on the drive thru at Mc'Ds so he can get on the road again and not miss any of the great action in store at Brodhead ! Mike C. do not archive PS-- nice to see you love muffin's alive again ! The list was kind of quiet, but understandable with the holidays. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:14 AM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs does anyone know what the dimensions of the gussetts are on the ribs? thanks? the only thing I have is 1" square gussetts, which will not work. take care, Ben __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:38 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wings For all in the process of building and not yet done the wings, I just finished building a three piece wing. On my last Piet I built a one piece wing. In my opinion the three section was much harder to build. Yes, it is easier to move around in smaller sections and the one piece requires a larger work area, but if there is a next time, it'll be a one piece. Dick N ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:48 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs Ben Most all gussets are different sizes. You need a full size plan for the ribs to make them. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Ramler" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs does anyone know what the dimensions of the gussetts are on the ribs? thanks? the only thing I have is 1" square gussetts, which will not work. take care, Ben __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:17 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wings Dick, Do you think the 3-piece wing is heavier than the 1-piece? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:41 AM PST US From: Ben Ramler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs I have the full rib drawing but I do not the dimensions. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dick Navratil Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 11:01:07 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs Ben Most all gussets are different sizes. You need a full size plan for the ribs to make them. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Ramler" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs does anyone know what the dimensions of the gussetts are on the ribs? thanks? the only thing I have is 1" square gussetts, which will not work. take care, Ben __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:52 AM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pilot weight/was builders ages Oscar, Great, I am planning on using the Corvair engine conversion and have a longer fuselage. I weigh about 230 and am 6'-5" tall. Sounds like I have the right set up for my size. I will be interested in your data on the W&B Regards from chilly AK! Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 5:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pilot weight/was builders ages Rob wrote- >As a builder who is 55, I am far less by waistline than the previously >mentioned waistlines, but now I am curious about the useful load, and what >(lbs) is allowed in the back seat for proper CG. I'm about to do a new W&B on 41CC this weekend and I'll let you know how it turns out, but the biggest factor is what engine you have on the airplane. I've run many 'what-ifs' in the W&B spreadsheet on 41CC in its previous trim and can tell you a couple of things that the numbers show on this airplane. And it has a Continental A65-8, cabanes swung back 4", and split axle Cub-style gear. And I'm 55 and not "oversquare" in the waistline (32" on a good day, before dinner, without tucking in my shirt). One thing the numbers show is that my airplane should only be soloed from the rear seat, especially with full fuel (16 gal. in a header tank). Another thing is that there is a minimum pilot weight, solo with full fuel, of about 95 lbs. or the CG is too far forward. Another thing is that it's virtually impossible for the passenger's weight to affect the CG... I've tried passenger weights up to 350 lbs. with a 95 lb. pilot and I really don't believe that can physically be done by any 350 pounder I've ever seen. More realistic passenger weights do not change the CG to any appreciable extent. So... to your question. "Useful load" for 41CC is a pilot, passenger, full fuel, and a couple of headsets. There is essentially no place to put baggage, certainly not behind the pilot. On this airplane, that amounts to roughly 500 lbs. available for pilot and passenger. I've run scenarios (on paper) with large pilot and passenger and full fuel and you can put the airplane out of CG limits and over-gross, but I really don't believe it's physically possible to stuff two people that large into both cockpits, especially into the front. And more than that, my understanding is that the A65 won't pull the airplane up with any gusto in this configuration, especially on a warm day or at anything much above sea level. I'll let you know how the new W&B turns out. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: snow in Denver From: A while back I said Denver gets snow but it doesn't last long. Looks like I'm out to lunch on that one this year boys and girls. My apologies to the wonderful folks of Denver. You have had your share this year and then some! Do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:56 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Operators Manual In a message dated 1/9/2007 12:44:01 AM Central Standard Time, foto@alaska.net writes: Any comments or clues, or better yet graphs and operators manual info ..? Rob Stapleton, Anchorage, Alaska Rob, You might get some ideas of some of the various loading configurations, from my Weight & Ballance sheets on this page: http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:09 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop In a message dated 1/8/2007 9:52:53 PM Central Standard Time, EmchAir@aol.com writes: Another thing to pay attention to is that a 72 x 42 from one company is not necessarily a 72 x 42 from another company. Then there are different airfoils, shapes, chords, etc. It almost hurts when you start to think just how different one make of prop could be from another make! Well said, Don. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:58 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weld cracks found In a message dated 1/8/2007 6:48:53 PM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew@aol.com writes: You are absolutely correct in your assumption. I TIG welded this axle. That's why I tac weld with the mig, but Always finish weld with Oxy / Accy. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:46 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs From: "Jack T. Textor" Ben, 1" will work for many of them. I cut mine into 1 1/2 circles, sanded, then split in half with the band saw. You can see pictures on my site, www.textors.com, under Piet Project. Also some pictures of Oshkosh and Brodhead under Miscellaneous at the bottom. Jack Textor ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:28 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs There are no dimensions called out for the gussets. It's one of those places in the plans where you need to use the scale of the plans, a little eyeball dimensioning, a little imagination, a little guesswork and a little Kentucky windage. I have seen pictures of everything from little tiny ones that don't look like they would work to really oversized ones and they all seem to work fine. One of those places where you get to do your own thing. I will suggest standardizing them as much as possible so you dont have a different size gusset for each joint like I did. it's a lot easier to have only two or three sizes to deal with. If you have access to a papercutter you can cut some 1" strips and cut the gussets from them with shears or tin snips. have fun .... Ed G. >From: Ben Ramler >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs >Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:18:46 -0800 (PST) > > >I have the full rib drawing but I do not the dimensions. > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Dick Navratil >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 11:01:07 AM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs > > > > >Ben >Most all gussets are different sizes. You need a full size plan for the >ribs to make them. >Dick N. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ben Ramler" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:46 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs > > > >does anyone know what the dimensions of the gussetts are on the ribs? >thanks? the only thing I have is 1" square gussetts, which will not work. > >take care, > >Ben > >__________________________________________________ > > >__________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:17 PM PST US From: "Bill Princell" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making Rib Gussets Hi Ben: You might want to consider cutting them out with a 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" hole saw using a 1/32" pilot drill. Just stack them with the grain all the same direction and cut them in half on a band saw. That way you can make them all the same size and and modify a few if need that might require less area. I made mine that way. They make the finished rib look great. They're extremely strong and eliminate unneeded material. Bill Princell - ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:40 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellers I am using a Model A, so I am going to have to have a prop made, but for you guys using aircraft engines or the Corvair, wouldn't it be simple to solve the prop question by using one of the ground adjustable (Ivo prop?) propellers. Dick: I built a 3 piece wing and I spent more time building the center section ( especially if I factor in the building of the fiberglass fuel tank ) then the 2 wing panels. Ken Perkins has a one piece wing. After a forced landing he had to take the wing off to transport the airplane home and really regretted the one piece wing-at least at that time. another good reason for the 3piece. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:13 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Making Rib Gussets From: "Steve Eldredge" You guys are making want to build a set just for fun! How many multiple piet builders are there out there? Steve E From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Princell Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making Rib Gussets Hi Ben: You might want to consider cutting them out with a 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" hole saw using a 1/32" pilot drill. Just stack them with the grain all the same direction and cut them in half on a band saw. That way you can make them all the same size and and modify a few if need that might require less area. I made mine that way. They make the finished rib look great. They're extremely strong and eliminate unneeded material. Bill Princell - ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: side business From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" You know Steve, since the Piet world lost Indiana farmer/Piet rib maker Charlie Ruebeck there is now a market share available to ready-made Piet rib sets. I hear he was getting what, $250-$300 for a set recently ? If you make one a day that would be a $300/month added income if the buyers are out there, minus material costs of course. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: packing From: "Don Emch" Hey Mike, One day ol' Forrest and I were talking about the props so we checked his and it was a X 44 on Sky Gypsy, which surprised me and didn't make me feel too good either! I've kinda been looking around and thinking about a flatter pitch. Trees at one end and wires at the other of my home base. It's about 2500' long and I can get 250' by the end of the runway now but as you know it's a different airplane in the summer with a load. Thinking about going to a climb prop. Thanks for the comment on the plane, I suppose I'll have to buy you breakfast now if I see you at a fly-in this year! Thanks to global warming I've flown each month now this winter. The runway is a sloppy mess with a lot of it stuck to the plane! Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86648#86648 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:38 PM PST US From: TGSTONE236@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: weight After reading all your emails,I see that I'm not the only one that needs to shed a few (40-50) pounds,I don't want my Piet to look like a swaybacked Camel.I am walking my dog down our 2750 ft runway round trip.The dog needs to loose weight also but I just tell people I'm walking the dog because she needs it. Ted Stone ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:48 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wings The three piece is definetly heavier. With all the extra bracing and steel fittings, I would say at least 5 lb. more. I see the point of being easier to transport a three piece after an off field landing. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wings Dick, Do you think the 3-piece wing is heavier than the 1-piece? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:29 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wings& trailering YES SIR! That 3 piece makes it a lot eaiser to tow home when the ponies quit working before gravity does. Done it twice now and we trucked it 500 miles on a 20ft flat bed snowmobile trailer. 2nd time on a heavy equipment trailer, but luckly it was only 10 miles. Shad Dick Navratil wrote: The three piece is definetly heavier. With all the extra bracing and steel fittings, I would say at least 5 lb. more. I see the point of being easier to transport a three piece after an off field landing. Dick N. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:23 PM PST US From: Pietsrneat@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: McNuggets In a message dated 1/9/2007 11:37:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov writes: You know Harvey, I was thinking along the lines of a nice steakhouse or rib place myself but it looks like in the effort to minimize travel and entertainment costs Ron is going on the cheap with me but for the sake of the Pietenpol movement I'll show him my plane and then pass on the drive thru at Mc'Ds so he can get on the road again and not miss any of the great action in store at Brodhead ! Mike C. Another example of one of my sad jokes going terribly wrong. A big, fat steak it is, Mike. After all you've done for me, that is the least I can do. Ron ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:27 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ohio piets planning on brodhead Just wondering who plans on flying up to Brodhead from Ohio or surrounding states. Trying to see if I can arange any wingmen to go up togeather. As far as Dad's piet we are waiting to get the heads back. They were sent out to get some milling done. Overhauled re-radius'd crank is installed and I think Dad is going to put the jugs on this weekend. Hopefully it will be back togeather and test runs done by the time the "Lost runway of Atlantis" resurfaces from benieth the mud. In the mean time my runway mowing tractor, a 1955 Allis Chalmers WD45 decided it was time for an engine overhaul, and I think tractor parts might give airplane parts a run for their money in the cost department. Oh well, its good practice ....come to think of it, Corvair or my Allis Chalmers if it breaks down I am stuck out in a field either way. Well have a good winter Y'all, and hopefully most of you have been enjoying this mild winter from the cockpit of your Piets. Hope to see (meet) you all soon. Shad __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:20 PM PST US From: Pietsrneat@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wings In a message dated 1/9/2007 12:03:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, horzpool@goldengate.net writes: For all in the process of building and not yet done the wings, I just finished building a three piece wing. On my last Piet I built a one piece wing. In my opinion the three section was much harder to build. Yes, it is easier to move around in smaller sections and the one piece requires a larger work area, but if there is a next time, it'll be a one piece. Dick N Dick, I find it very interesting you would opt for the one piece if you were to do another. I have probably wrestled with this aspect of construction (one piece or three piece) more than any other. Although I initially gravitated toward the one piece, it seemed logistically prudent to go the 3-piece route, especially if I wanted to build in some dihedral. On the other hand, the one piece looks cumbersome and hard to handle. Ron ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:23 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wings (3-piece vs. one piece) Dan, The 3-piece wing is heavier than the one piece version. How much I don't know, but BHP himself told me the difference could be as much as 15 pounds when the weight of the extra hardware, two more ribs, etc. is taken into account. Note also that the butt ribs and center section ribs need to be reinforced and braced against fabric pull. More pieces = more weight (and complexity) I used the 3-piece wing on my Pietenpol because of work space limitations. As far as awkwardness in handling the one piece version is concerned, I have had the wings off my Pietenpol only twice, for re-painting and recovering, in over 36 years. A friend built a Pietenpol with a one piece wing years ago and removed the wing for winter storage every autumn, and re-installing it in the spring, for several years. The job required three men and wasn't all that difficult. I wouldn't want to do it now, though; I'm 78 and everything is heavier than it used to be. If I were to build another (which I won't), it would have the one piece wing, provided I had the working space to build it. Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in an Alberta blizzard.) ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:02 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" Subject: Pietenpol-List: You know you like Pietenpols when... Here's one for Tim Hansen... You know you like Pietenpols when you watch a football game and every time the announcer says the word "Buckeye" you mentally add "Pietenpol Association"! My team won, but I will admit that the Ohio State 1st-play touchdown was impressive, and that "Ohio" formation their band did was pretty dang impressive. Maybe the tuba player that dotted the "i" should try out for quarterback next year. -Mike (down here in Gator Country) PS - Here's a strange and completely unrelated request... if anyone has any photos, 3-views, or info of the Douglas Commuter light aircraft from 1926 (other than what's already posted on Aerofiles.com) please lemme know! Mike Whaley Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:55 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Operators Manual Oh great. I have been anxious to examine this info..thanks! RS -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Operators Manual In a message dated 1/9/2007 12:44:01 AM Central Standard Time, foto@alaska.net writes: Any comments or clues, or better yet graphs and operators manual info...? Rob Stapleton, Anchorage, Alaska Rob, You might get some ideas of some of the various loading configurations, from my Weight & Ballance sheets on this page: http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html Chuck G. 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