Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:15 AM - Re: Ride with these Mustangs at Oshkosh ()
2. 04:21 AM - Re: OIL ()
3. 06:03 AM - Re: Welding Rod (Dave Abramson)
4. 06:32 AM - help from nawthrurn (Joseph Czaplicki)
5. 06:50 AM - Not Flying today! (Shawn Wolk)
6. 06:52 AM - Nawthurn Pieters (Dan Loegering)
7. 09:59 AM - Re: Not Flying today! (Rick Holland)
8. 11:01 AM - Re: Welding Rod (Rick Holland)
9. 11:35 AM - Re: bending wood (Rick Holland)
10. 12:27 PM - Nawthurn Pieters (Oscar Zuniga)
11. 12:54 PM - filler for 4130 (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
12. 01:34 PM - Re: Nawthurn Pieters (Alan Lyscars)
13. 01:45 PM - Cold. (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
14. 02:07 PM - Re: filler for 4130 (Rick Holland)
15. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: bending wood (Dale Johnson)
16. 03:04 PM - Re: Nawthurn Pieters (Tim Willis)
17. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: bending wood (Greg Bacon)
18. 04:14 PM - Welding Rod (Larry Rice)
19. 04:34 PM - Re: Welding Rod (Glenn Thomas)
20. 04:54 PM - Interesting Info on leading edge sheeting (shad bell)
21. 05:56 PM - tail tiedown release (Oscar Zuniga)
22. 06:05 PM - Re: skydiving the next generation? (HVandervoo@aol.com)
23. 07:20 PM - Re: snow in Denver (Rick Holland)
24. 08:29 PM - Re: Interesting Info on leading edge sheeting (KMHeide)
25. 08:42 PM - A response to having a flyin.. (KMHeide)
26. 09:22 PM - Re: Interesting Info on leading edge sheeting (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Ride with these Mustangs at Oshkosh |
WOW!
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: January 11, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ride with these Mustangs at Oshkosh
Kind of takes me back. My flight instructor in the 60's was a P51 pilot
in the south Pacific in WWll. It's the old thing about how the young
thinks about the old these days. They are just babbling old turds that
had no idea.
Remember me asking about his old plane, and he said that another guy had
taken it. Said that the enemy had "run up his ass and got him"
means alot more to me now.
Got old pics of him in his P51, P39, and something else. His wife was
named Ruth. So it was Ruth-less 1,2,3,4
As you get older,,,the more you know,,the less you know,,,,,wow
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
<mailto:michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ride with these Mustangs at Oshkosh
Excellent video. I'd give my left one to ride with these
guys....
Mike C.
http://airshowbuzz.com/videos/index.php?id=2
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 2
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I believe the number refers to weight;not sure.I just do as I'm told and
my AME said use this stuff to work the engine in.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: January 11, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:OIL
What does the 90 and 80 represent? Hopefully it's not viscosity.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:OIL
I had mentioned in a letter that I was using 90 mineral
oil.Correct that to be 80 mineral oil;used to work in an engine when new
parts are installed or if engine is new.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 3
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I have a welding book that states you can use EITHER mild steel, or 4130
welding rod to weld 4130 tubing....Both are just fine. The important thing
is to let the weld cool SLOWLY! Hold the torch off the weld (and
surrounding metal) about 4" so all the metal is glowing red, then pull away
SLOWLY.
You should (when able) weld with the same material you are trying to weld,
just be sure to do it correctly.
Cheers!
Dave
43 years old , started Nov 05 hope to finish 2008!
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Rice
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding Rod
The conventional wisdom I always heard is to use mild steel welding rod,
as the flame from the torch always adds some carbon even when it's
neutral, and 4130 + carbon is too brittle. I don't know for sure if
that's technically correct, but I've been up in a lot of airplanes
welded with mild steel rod and I'm still here to talk about it. I use
RG45 myself.
Larry the micro Mong guy
--
Message 4
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| Subject: | help from nawthrurn |
Corky, Besides preparing yourself for the arctic trek, don't forget to have all
the necessary survival gear packed away in the corner of your vehicle. Blankets,
extra cloths, food rations, jumper cables, shovel, kiddie litter for traction
etc. You should remember from your early days up in Wisc. And most important,
your vehicle itself. Be sure your radiator is protected for the minus double
digit temps that you're heading into. Chances are that Cajun auto protection
temps are nowhere near what you'll be needing.
Good luck for a safe trip up nawth and back.
JoeC in the NE corner of IL counting the days till spring 22498 & 94634
Time: 09:20:46 AM PST US
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Help from Nawthurn Pieters
Nawthurn and upper mid-western Pieters,
Joseph Czaplicki
fishin3@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Not Flying today! |
Hello Group,
Just for info, and so you all don't believe that I've lost it. It's
-37 C (-35F) here on Winnipeg this morning. And I will NOT go flying on
skis today. I'll bet at this temperature the oil could be sliced like
sandwich meat.
Shawn Wolk
C-FRAZ
Winnipeg MB Canada
Message 6
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| Subject: | Nawthurn Pieters |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 01/11/07
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-01-11&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-01-11&Archive=Pietenpol
===============================================
Corky,
Crosswinds and lightly loaded trailers are not a good combination for the roads
around here right now, but I wouldn't let that deter you from making the trip
up to sample our lovely weather this time of year. When Ken mentioned that you
were heading this way this week, I hoped you realized what you were running
into. Glad to see that you still have your "johns" - you'll need 'em!
Hopefully you will get a chance to swing by and check out the projects - currently
both fuselages are in my garage and we are getting close to the point of joining
the fuse sides. Was out there working last night with the heaters on and
a thought dawned on me as I was watching frost form on the windows. I had
the inside temp up to about 60 Deg, and the outside temp was somewhere around
13 below... not too bad a temp differential! Granted it took two hours just to
get it that warm and when the wife came home all that heat disappeared in about
20 seconds when she opened the garage door. But such are the challenges of
building in North Dakota. If we wait a month, it will be back in the 20's -
30's and life will be good again! ;-)
And now a question for all - since T-88 has a lower temp limit of 50 deg during
cure, what adverse effects will happen if during the cure time, the temperature
dips significantly below that point? Is the cure just slowed down and will
it develop full strength if I warm the joints. Usually at the end of a build
session, I usually shut down the heaters and the garage maintains it's temp long
enough for the glue to cure up fully before the temp has dropped significantly.
But if one of the garage doors is opened and a cold soaked car is moved
in there when the OAT is -13, it tends to get pretty cold pretty quickly...
I checked my joints this morning (garage temp = 30 deg, OAT = -11) and they had
set, but were still soft. I will kick the heat on again this evening and warm
everything up to around 60 again and hope for the best.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Not Flying today! |
Wow, and I thought 0 F in Denver was bad, if you were here you probably
would have been in the air before sunrise.
Rick
do not archive
On 1/12/07, Shawn Wolk <shawnwolk@can.rogers.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Group,
>
> Just for info, and so you all don't believe that I've lost it. It's
> -37 C (-35F) here on Winnipeg this morning. And I will NOT go flying on
> skis today. I'll bet at this temperature the oil could be sliced like
> sandwich meat.
>
> Shawn Wolk
> C-FRAZ
> Winnipeg MB Canada
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 8
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Several 'experts' at Oshkosh recommend ER80S-D2. A welder from the company
that makes the Legend Cub was welding one of their fuselages at SNF last
year for a demo. He was using ER70S-2 and said their was no reason to use
the more expensive ER80S-D2.
Other info gathered from welding experts (many PhD metallurgists):
- 80% say copper coated rod is fine, 20% say the copper contaminates the
weld and you will surely die.
- 50% say you don't have to stress relieve welds, 50% say you must or you
will die (interestingly enough the experts from the big companies that sell
tig welders all say you don't need to stress relieve)
- in case you ever wondered if you need to remove all that thin black
coating from 4130 tubing before welding, the guy from Legend Cub never
removes any of it, and they are FAA certified. But you will find plenty of
experts that will tell you that you will die if even a single molecule of
that stuff gets in your weld. Don't know if I will keep cleaning that stuff
off or not.
Rick
On 1/11/07, Larry Rice <rice@iapdatacom.net> wrote:
>
>
> The conventional wisdom I always heard is to use mild steel welding rod,
> as the flame from the torch always adds some carbon even when it's
> neutral, and 4130 + carbon is too brittle. I don't know for sure if
> that's technically correct, but I've been up in a lot of airplanes
> welded with mild steel rod and I'm still here to talk about it. I use
> RG45 myself.
>
> Larry the micro Mong guy
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: bending wood |
I also pre-bent my leading edge ply Gardiner (see attached picture). Soaked
it in a bath tub, stood it on edge then clamped the front 1 1/2" inch
between an angle and a 1 x 2 then bent the rest over 90 degrees and let it
dry. The fit was very close, when I glued it on I held it on with 5/16"
staples over plastic strips for easy removal.
Rick
On 1/11/07, Gardiner Mason <airlion@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Is there a good way to bend the 1/16 plywood around rhe leading edge? I
> am thinking about glueing and tacking the bottom edge and glueing to the
> bottom of the ribs. When this dries then I start wetting down around the
> leading edge to make the bend, and then I glue and tack the top. Has anyone
> tried this, or is there any other better way? Thanks, Gardiner Mason in
> Atlanta , Ga.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 10
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| Subject: | Nawthurn Pieters |
Dan wrote-
>I checked my joints this morning (garage temp = 30 deg, OAT = -11) and
>they had set, but were still soft.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It gets that cold and MY joints set, too ;o)
We have what's called Southern Comfort for that condition. It continues to
work very well on your joints even well below 50 degrees, especially the
black label version.
And so this post isn't considered totally useless, I've uploaded a photo of
the tailwheel hold-down release that I just made, using the idea from the
"Craftsman's Corner" article with a few modifications. It is not yet flight
tested, but will be soon. It's at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/P1120002.JPG . It does not yet have the
trip cord attached; probably a length of nylon "parachute cord" will run
from the split ring on the release pin, up to the cockpit.
Oscar Zuniga, in warm south Texas
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
Message 11
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Rick-- most everything I referenced said that the proper filler rod for
4130N (normalized condition) was was you said the Legend Cub guys are
using, AWS ER70S-2. Anything with a nice low carbon content around
0.06% carbon is good. I used 316 s/s rod which has a 0.3% carbon
content. Some poo-poo stainless but low carbon is a big factor to
crack-free 4130 welds. (plus a myriad of other factors like
pre-heating and cool
down practices. For some straight talk on welding look (once again I
preach the word of Homebuilding according to the Book of Bingelis) at
the Tony Bingelis books.
One of the main things (and I found out by some sloppy cleaning habits
early on) is to remove the oils from your 4130 before you try to weld.
I had to backup and punt making my motor mount because I didn't clean
out the INSIDE of the tubing and boy, does that oil like to come to
the surface and bubble up thru your nice melted filler material and
cause a beautiful Swiss cheese effect. MEK to the rescue.
Mike C.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Nawthurn Pieters |
Nice work Oscar!
Al in Maine
> And so this post isn't considered totally useless, I've uploaded a photo
of
> the tailwheel hold-down release that I just made, using the idea from the
> "Craftsman's Corner" article with a few modifications. It is not yet
flight
> tested, but will be soon. It's at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/P1120002.JPG . It does not yet have the
> trip cord attached; probably a length of nylon "parachute cord" will run
> from the split ring on the release pin, up to the cockpit.
>
> Oscar Zuniga, in warm south Texas
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
> by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
>
>
Message 13
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You need to change your reg. letters from C-FRAZ to C-FREEZE. Leon S. In
balmy 19d. Ks. Thanking about doing some sunbathing this afternoon.
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: filler for 4130 |
Correct Mike. I started off using ER80S-D2 (which is .09% C) based on some
experts suggestions at Oshkosh. But since talking to the Legend Cub guys and
more research I have stayed with the ER70S-2 at .06% Carbon (and its cheaper
too).
Rick
On 1/12/07, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>
> Rick-- most everything I referenced said that the proper filler rod for
> 4130N (normalized condition) was was you said the Legend Cub guys are
> using, AWS ER70S-2. Anything with a nice low carbon content around
> 0.06% carbon is good. I used 316 s/s rod which has a 0.3% carbon
> content. Some poo-poo stainless but low carbon is a big factor to
> crack-free 4130 welds. (plus a myriad of other factors like pre-heating
> and cool
> down practices. For some straight talk on welding look (once again I
> preach the word of Homebuilding according to the Book of Bingelis) at
> the Tony Bingelis books.
>
> One of the main things (and I found out by some sloppy cleaning habits
> early on) is to remove the oils from your 4130 before you try to weld.
> I had to backup and punt making my motor mount because I didn't clean out
> the INSIDE of the tubing and boy, does that oil like to come to
> the surface and bubble up thru your nice melted filler material and cause
> a beautiful Swiss cheese effect. MEK to the rescue.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: bending wood |
Mike
The 1/16 plywood goes from the center of the front spar to 1/2 " overlap on
the
leading edge. It's about a 9" strip of 1/16 plywood. After gluing sand it
down to feather it in with the
leading edge.No wetting no bending required.
Dale
> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/12/2007 12:20:05 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: bending wood
>
>
> >> Is there a good way to bend the 1/16 plywood around rhe leading edge?
> >> I am thinking about glueing and tacking the bottom edge and glueing to
> >> the bottom of the ribs. When this dries then I start wetting down
around
> >> the leading edge to make the bend, and then I glue and tack the top.
> >> Has anyone tried this, or is there any other better way? Thanks,
> >> Gardiner Mason in Atlanta , Ga.
>
> Steen Aero Lab makes 1/16" vacuum-formed laminated plywood leading edges
> that might work for you with a little adaptation. They're VERY popular
with
> the acro bipe crowd nowadays. Check out www.steenaero.com (look in the
> products section and in the online store.) Steen can do custom work on
> these, it's usually just a matter of how the pieces are trimmed and laid
> into the mold.
>
> The Obligatory Disclaimer: I work for Steen... but I thought this would be
> of interest to this discussion.
>
> -Mike
>
> Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
> Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
> http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Nawthurn Pieters |
Beautiful, Oscar. Thanks for the pic. Used some Bridgeport time?
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 12, 2007 2:26 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nawthurn Pieters
>
>
>Dan wrote-
>
>>I checked my joints this morning (garage temp = 30 deg, OAT = -11) and
>>they had set, but were still soft.
>
>Yeah, I know what you mean. It gets that cold and MY joints set, too ;o)
>We have what's called Southern Comfort for that condition. It continues to
>work very well on your joints even well below 50 degrees, especially the
>black label version.
>
>And so this post isn't considered totally useless, I've uploaded a photo of
>the tailwheel hold-down release that I just made, using the idea from the
>"Craftsman's Corner" article with a few modifications. It is not yet flight
>tested, but will be soon. It's at
>http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/P1120002.JPG . It does not yet have the
>trip cord attached; probably a length of nylon "parachute cord" will run
>from the split ring on the release pin, up to the cockpit.
>
>Oscar Zuniga, in warm south Texas
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
>by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: bending wood |
John Dilatush has a really nice method for attaching the ply to the leading
edge. He router cut the leading edge 1/16"th by 1/4". Attached is a quick
sketch to show the detail. I used some scrap to get the angle right. This
gives a 1/4" gluing surface to the leading edge without any bending around
the leading edge.
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: bending wood
> <ddjohn@earthlink.net>
>
> Mike
> The 1/16 plywood goes from the center of the front spar to 1/2 " overlap
> on
> the
> leading edge. It's about a 9" strip of 1/16 plywood. After gluing sand it
> down to feather it in with the
> leading edge.No wetting no bending required.
> Dale
>
Message 18
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I know guys who use 1/16, others who claim they get more control with
3/32, whatever workd for you. I think it's supposed to vary with the
wall thickness of what you're welding, and should be pretty close to the
same.
Larry the micro mong guy
--
Message 19
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Rick,
That post was hillarious. Too bad there is such variance in data on such an important
topic.
Thanks
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87195#87195
Message 20
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| Subject: | Interesting Info on leading edge sheeting |
Hello Group, Just passing on some 2nd hand knowlage about leading edges that might
be of interest to some Pieters. Was told by Stan McLeod (I think it was)
designer of the Cavilier series of aircraft, That for the most efficiant wing
the leading edge sheeting should go back to the thickest part of the wing on
top. This will help keep that ridge where the fabric pulls in aft of the sheeting
from forming. Even most factory built aircraft covered with fabric have
a visible bump or edge all the way down the top of the wing spanwise where the
fabric "bellies" down between the ribs aft of the sheeting. One solution to
this (as I was told) is to take your ply back to the thickest part of the camber,
and scallop the ply in a radius a litle bigger than the rib spacing if you
want to save some weight. In theroy this will keep the airfoil of the covered
wing much closer to the shape of the ribs. Don't hold me to this, like I
said it 2nd hand info, but it makes perfect sense
to me. And by more efficiant that means less drag, more lift and more speed (even
though speed is not the issue for a piet). I will be trying this on my Jungster
1 biplane. One question, Does anyone on the list have any experiance
with gluing fabric to rip capstrips in place of stitching. I know some of you
will say NO!!! YOU HAVE TO STITCH, but any way that is how this airplane was
designed, what fabric cement would you recomend?
Shad
---------------------------------
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Message 21
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| Subject: | tail tiedown release |
To answer questions from several who asked about the tiedown release, the
rough machine work was done by friend and KR builder extraordinaire Mark
Langford in Alabama. Mark bought a mill and some other shop tools from Carl
Vought's widow and this was his first little project on the mill. It's made
of a hunk of aluminum scrap milled to rough shape. He also drilled the
guide holes for the release pin and formed the pin from a 5/16" carriage
bolt that was in the shop. Plans called for a 1/4" pin, but you use what
you have.
I finish-shaped the piece, rounded the edges, chamfered the holes, found a
spring for it, and assembled it. There are a few things that could be done
differently to make it a little better, but this one seems to work just fine
as-is. Time will tell.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
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it now
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: skydiving the next generation? |
Check this out
_http://jet-man.com/actuel.html_ (http://jet-man.com/actuel.html)
Hans
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| Subject: | Re: snow in Denver |
Tell me about it Harv, its like living in Michigan or Wisconsin. You can
usually play a round of golf sometime every month of the year here but not
this year. Which would normally be ok since I can then get more work done on
the Piet except its so stinkin cold in the garage I can't feel my fingers on
the sanding block.
Rick
do not archive
On 1/9/07, harvey.rule@bell.ca <harvey.rule@bell.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> A while back I said Denver gets snow but it doesn't last long. Looks
> like I'm out to lunch on that one this year boys and girls. My apologies
> to the wonderful folks of Denver. You have had your share this year and
> then some!
>
> Do not archive
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting Info on leading edge sheeting |
Shad,
I understand your description of the trailing edge of the leading edge material
creating a "step down" of fabric. However, I have learned from other builders
outside the Pietenpol ring they have used a piece of flexible material to blend
in and hide the transition when fabric is applied and shrunk. I can't recall
what they were using, but on many aircraft that have a leading edge wrap,
filler material was utilized and no sign of any transition step was ever noticed.
shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello Group, Just passing on some 2nd hand knowlage about leading edges that
might be of interest to some Pieters. Was told by Stan McLeod (I think it
was) designer of the Cavilier series of aircraft, That for the most efficiant
wing the leading edge sheeting should go back to the thickest part of the wing
on top. This will help keep that ridge where the fabric pulls in aft of the
sheeting from forming. Even most factory built aircraft covered with fabric
have a visible bump or edge all the way down the top of the wing spanwise where
the fabric "bellies" down between the ribs aft of the sheeting. One solution
to this (as I was told) is to take your ply back to the thickest part of the
camber, and scallop the ply in a radius a litle bigger than the rib spacing
if you want to save some weight. In theroy this will keep the airfoil of the
covered wing much closer to the shape of the ribs. Don't hold me to this, like
I said it 2nd hand info, but it makes perfect
sense to me. And by more efficiant that means less drag, more lift and more speed
(even though speed is not the issue for a piet). I will be trying this on
my Jungster 1 biplane. One question, Does anyone on the list have any experiance
with gluing fabric to rip capstrips in place of stitching. I know some
of you will say NO!!! YOU HAVE TO STITCH, but any way that is how this airplane
was designed, what fabric cement would you recomend?
Shad
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
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---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Message 25
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| Subject: | A response to having a flyin.. |
YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = true; YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.location
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geoState: "Texas", geoStateCode: "TX", geoTown: "Arlington", type: "shortcuts:/us/instance/place/us/town"},
{ geoArea: "144.307", geoCountry: "United
States", geoCounty: "Arlington", geoIsoCountryCode: "US", geoLocation: "(-77.083817,
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geoStateCode: "VA", geoTown: "Arlington", type: "shortcuts:/us/instance/place/us/town"}
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geoIsoCountryCode: "US", geoLocation: "(-122.32974, 47.603458)", geoName: "Seattle",
geoPlaceType: "Town", geoState: "Washington", geoStateCode: "WA", geoTown:
"Seattle", type: "shortcuts:/us/instance/place/us/town" } }, lw_1168663128_2:
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I can see it now:
"Deckard Field, E021GW inbound for landing."
"1GW be advised that landing on this airfield could lead to serious
injury or death. Land only at your own risk. Owners of this field
cannot be held responsible for claims, actions or judgments resulting
from damages to persons or property in the use of this land for the
purpose of landing, taxing, parking, storage or departure of your
aircraft. While you are on the property, personal safety equipment
is required but not provided. Please verbally acknowledge your
unconditional acceptance of these terms by repeating the following:
I One Golf Whisky hereby acknowledge that I have voluntarily chosen
to land my craft and use the facilities at Deckard Field (hereinafter
called "Jerry's Patch").
I understand the risks involved in the fly-in activities. I recognize
that this activity involves risk of injury and I agree to accept any
and all risks associated with it, including but not limited to
property damage or loss, minor bodily injury, severe bodily injury,
and death. Furthermore, I recognize that this activity involves risks
incidental thereto, including but not limited to, travel to and from
the restroom, parking and hangar areas. There is limited
availability of medical assistance and the possiblity of reckless
conduct of others present. I am voluntarily participating in the
activities with full knowledge of the risks involved and hereby agree
to accept any and all inherent risks of property damage, bodily
injury, or death.
In consideration of my participation in the fly-in and to the fullest
extent permitted by law, I agree to indemnify, defend and hold
harmless Jerry's Patch, its officers, directors, employees, agents,
volunteers and assigns from and against all claims arising out of or
resulting from my participation in the event. "Claim" as used in this
agreement means any financial loss, claim, suit, action, damage, or
expense, including but not limited to attorney's fees, attributable
to bodily injury, sickness, disease or death, or injury to or
destruction of tangible property including loss of use resulting
therefrom. In addition, I hereby voluntarily hold harmless Jerry's
Patch, its officers, directors, employees, agents, volunteers and
assigns from any and all claims, both present and future, that may be
made by me, my family, estate, heirs or assigns.
I hereby expressly agree to indemnify, defend, and hold harmless
Jerry's Patch, its officers, directors, employees, agents, volunteers
and assigns for any claim arising out of or incident to my
participation in the fly-in, unless claim is caused by sole
negligence or willful misconduct.
I also understand that Jerry's Patch does not provide any medical or
dental insurance or life insurance to cover bodily injury, illness or
death, nor insurance for personal property damage or loss, nor
insurance for liability arising out of my negligent acts or poor
pilotage; and I acknowledge that I am completely responsible for my
own insurance to cover these expenses.
I further understand that this acknowledgment of risk and hold
harmless is intended to be as broad and inclusive as permitted by the
laws of the State of Washington and that if any portion hereof is
held invalid, I agree that the balance shall, notwithstanding,
continue in full legal force and effect.
I agree that this acknowledgment of risk and hold harmless is
effective for as long as I participate in the fly-in."
.
.
.
--- In FlyChallenger@ yahoogroups. com, "Jerry Deckard"
<mustangsally@ ...> wrote:
>
> This is an example of why I don't have flyin's at my strip. I would
love to have them, but don't want to take the chance.
> Jerry
>
---------------------------------
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on Yahoo! Answers.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting Info on leading edge sheeting |
Shad, and all,
None of the posts about how to install the plywood is better than the way
Bernard shows to do it in the plans. However, bending it around the leading
edge, notching and nesting the plywood into leading edge, and scalloping the
plywood between the ribs WILL be more work, with No advantage !! The real
beauity of the Pietenpol is in it's simplicity.
The Jungster 1 biplane is quite a different design than the Pietenpol,
and should not influence anyone to build the Pietenpol wing, using anything
other than the conventional ribstiching method.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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