Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:55 AM - For Sale - Piet Ribs (Jack T. Textor)
2. 07:59 AM - tail brace fittings (Arden Adamson)
3. 08:08 AM - Re: For Sale - Piet Ribs (amsafetyc@aol.com)
4. 08:43 AM - Re: tail brace fittings (Lynn Knoll)
5. 08:54 AM - Congradulations Oscar (shad bell)
6. 09:17 AM - Re: tail brace fittings (Hans Vander Voort)
7. 09:40 AM - Re: wet wood? (John Egan)
8. 09:56 AM - Re: wet wood? (Michael Groah)
9. 10:08 AM - Apology (DONALD COOLEY)
10. 03:00 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Steve Singleton)
11. 03:36 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Kip and Beth Gardner)
12. 04:00 PM - Re: wet wood? (MICHAEL SILVIUS)
13. 04:06 PM - Re: Another dumb question (MICHAEL SILVIUS)
14. 04:59 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Steve Singleton)
15. 05:02 PM - down in 230' (DJ Vegh)
16. 07:25 PM - Re: wet wood? (Clif Dawson)
17. 07:46 PM - Re: wet wood? (Isablcorky@aol.com)
18. 07:52 PM - Re: tail brace fittings (Rcaprd@aol.com)
19. 09:08 PM - Re: tail brace fittings (Graham Hansen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | For Sale - Piet Ribs |
God morning all. Recently, I purchased a partially completed project
from David Paulsen in Missouri. I don't need the ribs, so plan to sell
them. There are 33 ribs, built for a 1" spar, glued with T88. The
spruce was from Wicks. David did a good job, but they will require a
couple of hours cleaning them up a bit. You can see some pictures on my
site www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/> , under Piet Project,
towards the bottom. I'm asking $300.00, plus packaging and shipping.
If you have questions or wish to purchase, drop me an email at
jtextor@thepalmergroup.com.
Thanks,
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
Message 2
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| Subject: | tail brace fittings |
Gentlemen,
I have a simple question I'd like your opinion on. Do you mount the
wire brace fittings for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer under the
covering and protruding through or on top of the covering? Does it even
matter? What did you do and/or what do you recommend? Any thoughts
would be appreciated.
Arden
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: For Sale - Piet Ribs |
Jack,
Let me know shipping and prep cost, to Lititz, Pennsylvania 17543. I think w
e have a deal, will confirm but just about certain I want the ribs, unless y
ou have already sold them.
Please advise as soon as possible, my project make take off on an accerlerat
ed rate of build.
Thanks
John Recine
office number and answering machine 717-627-4901
-----Original Message-----
From: jtextor@thepalmergroup.com
Sent: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For Sale - Piet Ribs
God morning all. Recently, I purchased a partially completed project from D
avid Paulsen in Missouri. I don=99t need the ribs, so plan to sell th
em. There are 33 ribs, built for a 1=9D spar, glued with T88. The sp
ruce was from Wicks. David did a good job, but they will require a couple o
f hours cleaning them up a bit. You can see some pictures on my site www.te
xtors.com, under Piet Project, towards the bottom. I=99m asking $300.
00, plus packaging and shipping. If you have questions or wish to purchase,
drop me an email at jtextor@thepalmergroup.com.
Thanks,
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
________________________________________________________________________
ee AOL Mail and more.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: tail brace fittings |
Arden,
I've never seen them under the fabric but that's not to say it hasn't
been done. A picture is worth a thousand words. Go to
www.westcoastpiet.com and I'm sure your question will be answered. No
Piet builder should be without this source of information. I'm thankful
this site is loaded in my favorites because I go to it constantly.
Lynn Knoll, Wichita
Piet/Vair in the works
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Arden Adamson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings
Gentlemen,
I have a simple question I'd like your opinion on. Do you mount the
wire brace fittings for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer under the
covering and protruding through or on top of the covering? Does it even
matter? What did you do and/or what do you recommend? Any thoughts
would be appreciated.
Arden
Message 5
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| Subject: | Congradulations Oscar |
Oscar, Its a great feeling isn't it! NX92GB is pretty well behaved on the ground
(except the old goose the throtle smash the rudder and aim the stick at the
ground to turn routine), and I imagine your piet is also. There is definatly
plenty of rudder athority with slow speeds. I have no experiance with a steerable
tailwheel (on a piet) but don't think it would be any harder to control
than a Cub or Champ. Just fly it by feel and carry a little extra speed on final
untill you get the feel of the landings. I was a little too hot on my 1st
landing and used up a lot of runway but touched down smoothly. It wont float
as much as a cub or champ with one person aboard. It will flare loose speed
rapidly and just bump down and stay down. Start at 55-60 mph over the fence
and work down to what you feel it should be. I flew a cub for the 1st time this
past November and with me and the owner aboard (probably a little over gross)
it was heavy but acted very similar to the piet
on landing when I came in at 50mph. Take your time, do things in your own time,
and enjoy the hell out of it!! CONGRATS
Shad
---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: tail brace fittings |
Arden,
It is up to your personal preference how you do it, I do not think there is
right or wrong way here
I did mine under the fabric, just like BHP's last original.
Hans
"Arden Adamson"
<aadamson@wnmdag.
org> To
Sent by: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings
01/15/2007 09:57
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
Gentlemen,
I have a simple question Id like your opinion on. Do you mount the wire
brace fittings for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer under the covering
and protruding through or on top of the covering? Does it even matter?
What did you do and/or what do you recommend? Any thoughts would be
appreciated.
Arden
Message 7
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Hi Don,
The times I have had to move my still incomplete fuselage, I found that wrapping
it with saran wrap or similar tacky-stretchy plastic works well. If there
is a bussiness in your area that supplies the big rolls of saran wrap (about
6 inches in diameter) to moving companies, you can buy a roll of it. Look in
the phone book under "movers" and look for a company that sells "packing supplies"
and they should have it. I wrapped it round and round, at least two layers,
then ran lengths of duct tape down the sides, top and bottom lengthwise. Be
sure to that the final layer of wrap is layered so the wind doesn't want to
catch it and open up the wrapping. I have moved my fuselage many times so far.
Fortunately it never got rained on.
DONALD COOLEY <adonjr@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Hello, Group!
Don Cooley, age 61...retiring from teaching in June...95 days left, but who's
counting?
My situation: I have purchased Richard daCosta's Piet project, and plan
to drive to Maine in June, pick it up and drive home to California with it. I
have a contractor's rack on my compact pick-up truck. The question I'd like
to put to the group is: Will exposure to some water (rain) hurt the unvarnished
wood? I plan to wrap everything carefully with plastic drop cloths, but it
seems likely that some water could find its way to the project. Thoughts?
I am currently remodeling my garage into a Piet hatchery so I'll be ready
to really dig in as a full-time Piet builder. I've had the plans since 1972,
so I guess it's about time!
Keep the sawdust flying! Don Cooley, Fairfield, California
Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote:
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-01-07&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
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Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 01/07/07: 34
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 AM - Get Started! Do Something! (Clif Dawson)
2. 04:45 AM - Kerosene Heater (Larry Rice)
3. 05:49 AM - Re: Get Started! Do Something! (walt evans)
4. 06:33 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Robert Gow)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned] (Rob Hart)
6. 06:54 AM - Re: thinking ahead when flying with skis (Ralph)
7. 07:27 AM - Re: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows (HVandervoo@aol.com)
8. 07:38 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (TJ)
9. 07:57 AM - builders ages (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
10. 08:41 AM - Re: builders ages (dwilson)
11. 08:53 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Catdesigns)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: builders ages (Jack T. Textor)
13. 09:48 AM - List: Builder's Ages (Alan Lyscars)
14. 09:49 AM - Re: builders ages (walt evans)
15. 02:30 PM - average age (glich7@juno.com)
16. 02:56 PM - Re: average age (walt evans)
17. 03:19 PM - age (TGSTONE236@aol.com)
18. 03:41 PM - Re: average age (Jeff Boatright)
19. 03:44 PM - Re: age (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
20. 04:16 PM - Re: builders ages (Jack T. Textor)
21. 04:35 PM - Re: builders ages (Gene & Tammy)
22. 05:47 PM - Another dumb question (Gene & Tammy)
23. 06:08 PM - Duane Woolsey? (Jeff Boatright)
24. 06:43 PM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
25. 07:13 PM - Re: builders ages (walt evans)
26. 07:21 PM - Re: List: Builder's Ages (Roman Bukolt)
27. 07:32 PM - Re: builders ages (Don Emch)
28. 07:38 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Don Emch)
29. 08:03 PM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Catdesigns)
30. 08:49 PM - prop (Dick Navratil)
31. 08:52 PM - Re: builders ages (Rcaprd@aol.com)
32. 09:01 PM - Re: prop (Rcaprd@aol.com)
33. 10:09 PM - Re: Get Started! Do Something! (Clif Dawson)
34. 10:46 PM - Re: -CAD (Clif Dawson)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 01:04:50 AM PST US
From: Clif Dawson
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something!
I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I
estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a
dinner out for two every month. That includes the
three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new
parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete
with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail
surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should
get most of the wing completed. You do what you
can with the time, space and financial resources life
affords you.
Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a
young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials
and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife
built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The
fuselage went from the left front corner of the living
room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic
of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window
and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or
didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm
sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something!
Drill a hole even.
An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are
mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table
sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can
move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access
each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space.
If you're worried that it will move while you're running
something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that
my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge
an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 04:45:59 AM PST US
From: Larry Rice
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Kerosene Heater
You may already know this, but when you get to fabric, no kerosene heat,
and if you have to cover it for dust no plastic. An old friend of mine
did that and the paint wouldn't stick. Hmmmm - any effect on glue or
varnish? I ended up with a small catalytic heater on a propane bottle in
my shop.
Larry the micro mong guy
--
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 05:49:04 AM PST US
From: "walt evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something!
Cliff,
That person was Jim Malley of this group. I still have the Kitplanes
issue that featured his Pietenpol on the front cover.
It was because of that, that I decided to build a Piet.
For all who needs/wants a little inspiration, want to again share this
picture, taken from the front seat, comming in over Stickle's Pond
headed toward runway 24 on a beautiful summer morning At Newton (Jump)
airport.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something!
I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I
estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a
dinner out for two every month. That includes the
three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new
parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete
with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail
surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should
get most of the wing completed. You do what you
can with the time, space and financial resources life
affords you.
Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a
young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials
and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife
built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The
fuselage went from the left front corner of the living
room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic
of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window
and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or
didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm
sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something!
Drill a hole even.
An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are
mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table
sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can
move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access
each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space.
If you're worried that it will move while you're running
something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that
my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge
an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors.
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 06:33:35 AM PST US
From: "Robert Gow"
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
I hear you. If you are building one plane it's no too productive. But in
the past I've found a lot of dimensional errors and fixed them by converting
from paper to CAD because you draw to scale. You can also resolve many
ambiguities as well because you have a fully detailed "model". But it would
only be worth doing if the plans were shared with new builders.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: January 6, 2007 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
John,
You guys talking about these CAD drawings are making my eyes glaze over.
Stop with the nonsence and just start making some ribs. At this rate you
will never get going! You need to start with what you CAN do. Nobody needs
any "place to build" to make a rib jig and start producing ribs. A few
sticks of spruce and a hand saw and glue are all you need. There has been a
lot of talk about tough love and kicks-in-the-butt's on this site as of
late. Here's some more---GET STARTED!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 06:43:26 AM PST US
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned]
From: "Rob Hart"
Hi Walt
I also have that issue of Kitplanes. It was also the article that
inspired me to follow the Piet dream. Thanks for the pic, and for the
reminder of the start of the journey.
To esteemed listers,
For those still figuring out when to start cutting or drilling; my
advice is to take your time. Measure twice and cut once is a well known
adage. Knowing when to start measuring, given the myriad demands on
most homebuilders, is perhaps less when understood. Thinking, planning
and contemplating is as much doing something as cutting spruce. Pick
your own time, not someone else's.
Regards
Rob
VH-PTN; in preparation.
Do not archive.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: Sunday, 7 January 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned]
Cliff,
That person was Jim Malley of this group. I still have the Kitplanes
issue that featured his Pietenpol on the front cover.
It was because of that, that I decided to build a Piet.
For all who needs/wants a little inspiration, want to again share this
picture, taken from the front seat, comming in over Stickle's Pond
headed toward runway 24 on a beautiful summer morning At Newton (Jump)
airport.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something!
I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I
estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a
dinner out for two every month. That includes the
three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new
parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete
with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail
surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should
get most of the wing completed. You do what you
can with the time, space and financial resources life
affords you.
Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a
young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials
and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife
built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The
fuselage went from the left front corner of the living
room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic
of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window
and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or
didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm
sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something!
Drill a hole even.
An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are
mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table
sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can
move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access
each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space.
If you're worried that it will move while you're running
something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that
my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge
an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors.
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________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 06:54:16 AM PST US
From: "Ralph"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: thinking ahead when flying with skis
I am also flying a Chief on skis in the snowy weather. I have a pair of
wood Call-Air skis. You set the wheel into a metal tube frame on top of the
ski and clamp it down.. It takes about ten minutes to change with the help
of the wife. I hope to incorporate something similar for the Piet.
(thirteen years down, about ready to cover the wings). If you land in snow
in a field, always circle around and park in you own tracks. It really
helps to not have to break trail when first starting to move. I always grab
the ski tip and lift up before starting up the engine. That breaks loose
any freeze down that might occur.
Carol and Ralph
Raymond
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 07:27:16 AM PST US
From: HVandervoo@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows
Rick,
Program I use is Visio 2000, it is a simple draft program.
By no means as good and versatile as AutoCAD but cheap and simple to use.
Hans
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 07:38:55 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard
From: "TJ"
Hi Guys
I can tell you from a newbies point of view that I wish someone would redraw everything
in CAD. I know when my plans first came I looked them over every which
way and couldnt make much outta them. After I met a few guys like Jim Markle
and Larry Williams and looked over what they have, then I started to understand
them better. I lucked out and bumped into a guy named Frank Hiles that lives
45 minutes from me that has built 4 Piets and is on his 5th one now and hes
showing how to build now. Razorbacks Rule!!! (Well maybe not this year
but somtimes, maybe once in a while, I think I remember when they did, OK maybe
not, but then whos cares anyway, thats why I like flying and not football)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86044#86044
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 07:57:00 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: builders ages
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]"
Mike C. 47 and still keeping to my goal of keeping my waistline
measurement under my age:)
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 08:41:37 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: builders ages
From: "dwilson"
Dan Wilson, age 50. Would like to finish my Piet while I can still pass the vision
test. Just got my first pair of glasses!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86063#86063
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 08:53:33 AM PST US
From: "Catdesigns"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Early on I drew up all the fittings in CAD and would advise against doing
this. The fittings I have tried to make based on the CAD drawings are not
always correct. Accurate to the plans yes but not correct for the job they
are intended to do. Sometimes the holes are a bit off and sometimes the
size of the fitting is a bit small. Plus you will want to lengthen the
fittings in a few places to access the bolt heads. For instance, take a
look at the front tailwheel mounting fitting, the one with the 3 fingers on
it. Notice how the bolt holes for mounting it to the fuselage interfere
with each other? If you were to blindly follow the plans you would be
making these fittings again, hopefully before you drilled your holes in the
lower longeron. Sorry, don't ask for the files because I think releasing
them into the world would give a false sense of accuracy that I don't want
to promote.
One thing you will find as you build is the plans turn out to be better then
you thought. They may look poor at first glance but after a while you start
to get in the groove and they turn out to be just fine. You soon realize
that you worry about some dimensions but others are whatever length is
required to fit YOUR particular assembly. The best approach is to get the
idea from the plans then fine tune the location and dimensions to make the
part fit your assembly correctly and serve the intended purpose. The
important thing is to make a strong well built plane. Don't waste your time
trying to build to the exact 1/64th because that's what the plans said it
had to be.
By the way I'm now 39. Was 33 when I started. Probably be 45 when done :-(
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass"
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
>
>
> Hi
>
> I have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet
> started building.
>
> It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list.
=== message truncated ==
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Congrats on your upcoming retirement from a fellow California teacher. I have
a little more than 95 days left as I'm only 30 and this is my third year teaching.
What do you teach? I teach CAD/Drafting and Automotive at Tulare Union
High School. Im sure that having a large project will help in the transition
to retirement. It helped my father who retired a few years back from teaching
(from the same school I teach at). He didn't do an airplane, he built a street
rod, but having a project was good for him.
As for the moisture with the wood I would think if you wrapped it up tightly
to keep the direct water off of it you would be fine. But like was said already
you will want to unwrap it and get it into your garage (hatchery) as soon
as you get back home.
Mike Groah
(collecting pieces for my piet and getting other projects wrapped up so I can put
all my play time into the Piet (I must finish my cushman project which is almost
done and my Firebird project which is coming along first)
http://www.groverfabs.com/MISCpersonal.htm
DONALD COOLEY <adonjr@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Hello, Group!
Don Cooley, age 61...retiring from teaching in June...95 days left, but who's
counting?
My situation: I have purchased Richard daCosta's Piet project, and plan
to drive to Maine in June, pick it up and drive home to California with it. I
have a contractor's rack on my compact pick-up truck. The question I'd like
to put to the group is: Will exposure to some water (rain) hurt the unvarnished
wood? I plan to wrap everything carefully with plastic drop cloths, but it
seems likely that some water could find its way to the project. Thoughts?
I am currently remodeling my garage into a Piet hatchery so I'll be ready
to really dig in as a full-time Piet builder. I've had the plans since 1972,
so I guess it's about time!
Keep the sawdust flying! Don Cooley, Fairfield, California
Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote:
*
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Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
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EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
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----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 01/07/07: 34
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 AM - Get Started! Do Something! (Clif Dawson)
2. 04:45 AM - Kerosene Heater (Larry Rice)
3. 05:49 AM - Re: Get Started! Do Something! (walt evans)
4. 06:33 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Robert Gow)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned] (Rob Hart)
6. 06:54 AM - Re: thinking ahead when flying with skis (Ralph)
7. 07:27 AM - Re: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows (HVandervoo@aol.com)
8. 07:38 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (TJ)
9. 07:57 AM - builders ages (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
10. 08:41 AM - Re: builders ages (dwilson)
11. 08:53 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Catdesigns)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: builders ages (Jack T. Textor)
13. 09:48 AM - List: Builder's Ages (Alan Lyscars)
14. 09:49 AM - Re: builders ages (walt evans)
15. 02:30 PM - average age (glich7@juno.com)
16. 02:56 PM - Re: average age (walt evans)
17. 03:19 PM - age (TGSTONE236@aol.com)
18. 03:41 PM - Re: average age (Jeff Boatright)
19. 03:44 PM - Re: age (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
20. 04:16 PM - Re: builders ages (Jack T. Textor)
21. 04:35 PM - Re: builders ages (Gene & Tammy)
22. 05:47 PM - Another dumb question (Gene & Tammy)
23. 06:08 PM - Duane Woolsey? (Jeff Boatright)
24. 06:43 PM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
25. 07:13 PM - Re: builders ages (walt evans)
26. 07:21 PM - Re: List: Builder's Ages (Roman Bukolt)
27. 07:32 PM - Re: builders ages (Don Emch)
28. 07:38 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Don Emch)
29. 08:03 PM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Catdesigns)
30. 08:49 PM - prop (Dick Navratil)
31. 08:52 PM - Re: builders ages (Rcaprd@aol.com)
32. 09:01 PM - Re: prop (Rcaprd@aol.com)
33. 10:09 PM - Re: Get Started! Do Something! (Clif Dawson)
34. 10:46 PM - Re: -CAD (Clif Dawson)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 01:04:50 AM PST US
From: Clif Dawson
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something!
I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I
estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a
dinner out for two every month. That includes the
three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new
parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete
with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail
surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should
get most of the wing completed. You do what you
can with the time, space and financial resources life
affords you.
Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a
young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials
and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife
built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The
fuselage went from the left front corner of the living
room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic
of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window
and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or
didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm
sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something!
Drill a hole even.
An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are
mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table
sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can
move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access
each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space.
If you're worried that it will move while you're running
something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that
my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge
an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 04:45:59 AM PST US
From: Larry Rice
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Kerosene Heater
You may already know this, but when you get to fabric, no kerosene heat,
and if you have to cover it for dust no plastic. An old friend of mine
did that and the paint wouldn't stick. Hmmmm - any effect on glue or
varnish? I ended up with a small catalytic heater on a propane bottle in
my shop.
Larry the micro mong guy
--
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 05:49:04 AM PST US
From: "walt evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something!
Cliff,
That person was Jim Malley of this group. I still have the Kitplanes
issue that featured his Pietenpol on the front cover.
It was because of that, that I decided to build a Piet.
For all who needs/wants a little inspiration, want to again share this
picture, taken from the front seat, comming in over Stickle's Pond
headed toward runway 24 on a beautiful summer morning At Newton (Jump)
airport.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something!
I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I
estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a
dinner out for two every month. That includes the
three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new
parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete
with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail
surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should
get most of the wing completed. You do what you
can with the time, space and financial resources life
affords you.
Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a
young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials
and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife
built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The
fuselage went from the left front corner of the living
room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic
of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window
and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or
didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm
sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something!
Drill a hole even.
An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are
mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table
sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can
move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access
each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space.
If you're worried that it will move while you're running
something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that
my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge
an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors.
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 06:33:35 AM PST US
From: "Robert Gow"
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
I hear you. If you are building one plane it's no too productive. But in
the past I've found a lot of dimensional errors and fixed them by converting
from paper to CAD because you draw to scale. You can also resolve many
ambiguities as well because you have a fully detailed "model". But it would
only be worth doing if the plans were shared with new builders.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: January 6, 2007 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
John,
You guys talking about these CAD drawings are making my eyes glaze over.
Stop with the nonsence and just start making some ribs. At this rate you
will never get going! You need to start with what you CAN do. Nobody needs
any "place to build" to make a rib jig and start producing ribs. A few
sticks of spruce and a hand saw and glue are all you need. There has been a
lot of talk about tough love and kicks-in-the-butt's on this site as of
late. Here's some more---GET STARTED!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 06:43:26 AM PST US
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned]
From: "Rob Hart"
Hi Walt
I also have that issue of Kitplanes. It was also the article that
inspired me to follow the Piet dream. Thanks for the pic, and for the
reminder of the start of the journey.
To esteemed listers,
For those still figuring out when to start cutting or drilling; my
advice is to take your time. Measure twice and cut once is a well known
adage. Knowing when to start measuring, given the myriad demands on
most homebuilders, is perhaps less when understood. Thinking, planning
and contemplating is as much doing something as cutting spruce. Pick
your own time, not someone else's.
Regards
Rob
VH-PTN; in preparation.
Do not archive.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: Sunday, 7 January 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned]
Cliff,
That person was Jim Malley of this group. I still have the Kitplanes
issue that featured his Pietenpol on the front cover.
It was because of that, that I decided to build a Piet.
For all who needs/wants a little inspiration, want to again share this
picture, taken from the front seat, comming in over Stickle's Pond
headed toward runway 24 on a beautiful summer morning At Newton (Jump)
airport.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something!
I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I
estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a
dinner out for two every month. That includes the
three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new
parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete
with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail
surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should
get most of the wing completed. You do what you
can with the time, space and financial resources life
affords you.
Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a
young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials
and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife
built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The
fuselage went from the left front corner of the living
room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic
of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window
and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or
didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm
sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something!
Drill a hole even.
An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are
mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table
sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can
move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access
each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space.
If you're worried that it will move while you're running
something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that
my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge
an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors.
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________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 06:54:16 AM PST US
From: "Ralph"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: thinking ahead when flying with skis
I am also flying a Chief on skis in the snowy weather. I have a pair of
wood Call-Air skis. You set the wheel into a metal tube frame on top of the
ski and clamp it down.. It takes about ten minutes to change with the help
of the wife. I hope to incorporate something similar for the Piet.
(thirteen years down, about ready to cover the wings). If you land in snow
in a field, always circle around and park in you own tracks. It really
helps to not have to break trail when first starting to move. I always grab
the ski tip and lift up before starting up the engine. That breaks loose
any freeze down that might occur.
Carol and Ralph
Raymond
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 07:27:16 AM PST US
From: HVandervoo@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows
Rick,
Program I use is Visio 2000, it is a simple draft program.
By no means as good and versatile as AutoCAD but cheap and simple to use.
Hans
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 07:38:55 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard
From: "TJ"
Hi Guys
I can tell you from a newbies point of view that I wish someone would redraw everything
in CAD. I know when my plans first came I looked them over every which
way and couldnt make much outta them. After I met a few guys like Jim Markle
and Larry Williams and looked over what they have, then I started to understand
them better. I lucked out and bumped into a guy named Frank Hiles that lives
45 minutes from me that has built 4 Piets and is on his 5th one now and hes
showing how to build now. Razorbacks Rule!!! (Well maybe not this year
but somtimes, maybe once in a while, I think I remember when they did, OK maybe
not, but then whos cares anyway, thats why I like flying and not football)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86044#86044
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 07:57:00 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: builders ages
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]"
Mike C. 47 and still keeping to my goal of keeping my waistline
measurement under my age:)
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 08:41:37 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: builders ages
From: "dwilson"
Dan Wilson, age 50. Would like to finish my Piet while I can still pass the vision
test. Just got my first pair of glasses!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86063#86063
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 08:53:33 AM PST US
From: "Catdesigns"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Early on I drew up all the fittings in CAD and would advise against doing
this. The fittings I have tried to make based on the CAD drawings are not
always correct. Accurate to the plans yes but not correct for the job they
are intended to do. Sometimes the holes are a bit off and sometimes the
size of the fitting is a bit small. Plus you will want to lengthen the
fittings in a few places to access the bolt heads. For instance, take a
look at the front tailwheel mounting fitting, the one with the 3 fingers on
it. Notice how the bolt holes for mounting it to the fuselage interfere
with each other? If you were to blindly follow the plans you would be
making these fittings again, hopefully before you drilled your holes in the
lower longeron. Sorry, don't ask for the files because I think releasing
them into the world would give a false sense of accuracy that I don't want
to promote.
One thing you will find as you build is the plans turn out to be better then
you thought. They may look poor at first glance but after a while you start
to get in the groove and they turn out to be just fine. You soon realize
that you worry about some dimensions but others are whatever length is
required to fit YOUR particular assembly. The best approach is to get the
idea from the plans then fine tune the location and dimensions to make the
part fit your assembly correctly and serve the intended purpose. The
important thing is to make a strong well built plane. Don't waste your time
trying to build to the exact 1/64th because that's what the plans said it
had to be.
By the way I'm now 39. Was 33 when I started. Probably be 45 when done :-(
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass"
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
>
>
> Hi
>
> I have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet
> started building.
>
> It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list.
=== message truncated ==
---------------------------------
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Message 9
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Hello, group,
I apologize for forgetting to snip before I replied to yesterday's digest.
I'll be more careful in the future. Keep the sawdust flying! Don Cooley
Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote:
*
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Another dumb question |
---Hi everyone- I've found a source locally that has 1/8in Baltic
Birch in 5x5 sheets and am wanting to use it for Gusset material. Would
this be aceptable to use? Thanks. Steve Singleton
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Another dumb question |
Steve,
Baltic Birch is an interior grade plywood (the glue is not
waterproof), and is NOT recommended for aircraft. The other
consideration is that is mainly intended for finish applications -
the interior plys may not be up to aircraft spec structurally.
What you can use that is cheaper than aircraft grade is Marine Grade
plywood that meets a spec (don't remember the #) for waterproofness,
quality of interior plys, etc. It is generally sold in metric
thicknesses (made in Israel), so you'll need to convert (~25mm/inch).
If I remember correctly, the best source for this is a marine
building supply company that's called Noah's (?). They have locations
in Buffalo and Toronto.
Kip Gardner
At 4:59 PM -0600 1/15/07, Steve Singleton wrote:
>
>
>---Hi everyone- I've found a source locally that has 1/8in Baltic
>Birch in 5x5 sheets and am wanting to use it for Gusset material.
>Would this be aceptable to use? Thanks. Steve Singleton
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
--
North Canton, OH
Message 12
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Donald:
I live less than a half mile form Richard Decosta. I thought he had sold
that about 2 years ago but my UPS man just told me it was still in his
garage last week. I have seen the plane it is a nice short fuselage Piet
built to the original construction manual if I recall correctly. I
passed on buying it as I could not fit in the short fuse with my big
clodhoppers.
As for wrapping the thing with shipping grade saran wrap you'd likely be
fine. Just be sure to wrap in the right direction so the wind don't blow
it off. U-Haul sells the stuff in 18 inch wide rolls. Transport should
be easy as it is the 3 piece wing. If you are really concerned we are
right on the coast an thus we have a lot of boating around here. And we
also have a lot of folks that do shrink wrapping of boats for winter
storage. I am certain that if you were up for it you could get it shrink
wrapped for the trip by one of the fellows that do that around here.
Richard or myself could come up with some phone numbers for you. It may
give you the extra peace of mind for the long journey. I hauled a
project home from western Vermont just a week before Christmas and was
having a kinipshen fit when I went through a couple of rain brief and
ever so slight showers. They passed quick enough.
http://rides.webshots.com/album/147451245dhnmgI
the piet parts are in the basement for now
michael silvius
scarborough, maine
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Another dumb question |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb
questionhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/wppages/finnishbirch.php
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=9/index.html
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=8/index.html
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Another dumb question |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb questionThanks Kip-The price was really
cheap. I guess thats why. Just a tibit of info-I'm 48 and yes a waist
line that should be somewhat smaller. I built the ribs last winter
(glued them up in the living room) If i have the Piet done by the time
I'm 50 I'll be doing great. I only fell twice today on the ice comeing
and going between the shop and house. Steve Singleton
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question
Steve,
Baltic Birch is an interior grade plywood (the glue is not
waterproof), and is NOT recommended for aircraft. The other
consideration is that is mainly intended for finish applications - the
interior plys may not be up to aircraft spec structurally.
What
Message 15
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wow! what fun today. Been practicing short field landings in our
Taylorcraft. Today I managed down and stopped in 230' (see attached) Winds
were ahead at 9kts. I wonder... a Piet/GN-1 should be able to do the same
right?? For those flying, what's your shortest landing in your Piet and
what were the winds?
DJ
Message 16
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My choice for moving large object this way is 10 mil poly.
It's 10 ft wide and you buy it in any length you want. Wrap
the part in it with the seam on the "bottom" surface away
from the rain. You'll have to plan that of course. :-)
Tape up seams with lots of duct tape. The problem I see
with the saran wrap idea is that there are multitudes of
seams, each a potential leak. It doesn't always stick to
itself as well as you would need. Now how would I know
that? :-)
The shrink wrap is a good one too. I like that. I think it just
boils down to which you one guys think would be easier.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: MICHAEL SILVIUS
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wet wood?
Donald:
As for wrapping the thing with shipping grade saran wrap you'd likely
be fine. Just be sure to wrap in the right direction so the wind don't
blow it off. And we also have a lot of folks that do shrink wrapping of
boats for winter storage. I am certain that if you were up for it you
could get it shrink wrapped for the trip by one of the fellows that do
that around here.
Message 17
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Here I go again after saying I never would again.
May I suggest that you get up to Maine a few days earlier than planned put
on a couple of coats of good spar varnish, 1st coat thinned then 2d coat full
strength out of the can. I like Ace hardware gloss. Then you wouldn't have to
wrap anything or worry about plastic flying. I'm thinking like a completed
fuse of course.
Just a thought but I bet that's the way I'd do it.
Corky
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: tail brace fittings |
In a message dated 1/15/2007 10:01:45 AM Central Standard Time,
aadamson@wnmdag.org writes:
Gentlemen,
I have a simple question I=99d like your opinion on. Do you mount the
wire
brace fittings for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer under the covering a
nd
protruding through or on top of the covering? Does it even matter? What di
d
you do and/or what do you recommend? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Arden
Arden,
The tail wire brace fittings for the vertical and horizontal stabilizer, are
Under the fabric. I used 3/16" iron rivets, called out in the plans, so it
was a permanent install, before fabric. You need to have them installed whe
n
you pre-fit the empenage. Then you the parts, and cover the vert & horiz st
abs,
with just a slit for the fittings to protrude, then install a re-enforcing
small round patch (about 3" diameter), slit for the protruding fitting, with
the
fibers running at about a 45=C2=BA to the covering, on top of the fabric. A
llow
the fabric to creep up on the fitting, and it makes for a nice clean looking
,
and waterproof install.
You can see the fittings here, as well as how I set up the heel brakes,
sealed hinge gaps, and means to jack the plane up
http://nx770cg.com/Unique.html
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: tail brace fittings |
Arden,
In general, early designs having a wooden structure (and the Pietenpol
fits this category) have fittings placed outside the fabric covering.
The DeHavilland Moths, among others, did it this way because:
1. Inspection of fittings is made easy.
2. Fabric covering is easier to accomplish.
3. It is easy to seal between the fabric and the fittings.*
4. Removal/replacement of fittings or bolts is facilitated.
5. You get a nice "antique" appearance.
* Use a high quality marine sealant here.
Covering the fittings with fabric is OK, but make sure no water can
enter where the fitting emerges from the fabric. This can be difficult
to accomplish for long term protection.
I opted to place my fittings outside the fabric and tolerate the extra
drag they produce. After all, what's a bit more drag to a Pietenpol?
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
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