---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/15/07: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:55 AM - For Sale - Piet Ribs (Jack T. Textor) 2. 07:59 AM - tail brace fittings (Arden Adamson) 3. 08:08 AM - Re: For Sale - Piet Ribs (amsafetyc@aol.com) 4. 08:43 AM - Re: tail brace fittings (Lynn Knoll) 5. 08:54 AM - Congradulations Oscar (shad bell) 6. 09:17 AM - Re: tail brace fittings (Hans Vander Voort) 7. 09:40 AM - Re: wet wood? (John Egan) 8. 09:56 AM - Re: wet wood? (Michael Groah) 9. 10:08 AM - Apology (DONALD COOLEY) 10. 03:00 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Steve Singleton) 11. 03:36 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Kip and Beth Gardner) 12. 04:00 PM - Re: wet wood? (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 13. 04:06 PM - Re: Another dumb question (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 14. 04:59 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Steve Singleton) 15. 05:02 PM - down in 230' (DJ Vegh) 16. 07:25 PM - Re: wet wood? (Clif Dawson) 17. 07:46 PM - Re: wet wood? (Isablcorky@aol.com) 18. 07:52 PM - Re: tail brace fittings (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 09:08 PM - Re: tail brace fittings (Graham Hansen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: For Sale - Piet Ribs From: "Jack T. Textor" God morning all. Recently, I purchased a partially completed project from David Paulsen in Missouri. I don't need the ribs, so plan to sell them. There are 33 ribs, built for a 1" spar, glued with T88. The spruce was from Wicks. David did a good job, but they will require a couple of hours cleaning them up a bit. You can see some pictures on my site www.textors.com , under Piet Project, towards the bottom. I'm asking $300.00, plus packaging and shipping. If you have questions or wish to purchase, drop me an email at jtextor@thepalmergroup.com. Thanks, Jack Textor Des Moines, IA ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings From: "Arden Adamson" Gentlemen, I have a simple question I'd like your opinion on. Do you mount the wire brace fittings for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer under the covering and protruding through or on top of the covering? Does it even matter? What did you do and/or what do you recommend? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Arden ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: For Sale - Piet Ribs From: amsafetyc@aol.com Jack, Let me know shipping and prep cost, to Lititz, Pennsylvania 17543. I think w e have a deal, will confirm but just about certain I want the ribs, unless y ou have already sold them. Please advise as soon as possible, my project make take off on an accerlerat ed rate of build. Thanks John Recine office number and answering machine 717-627-4901 -----Original Message----- From: jtextor@thepalmergroup.com Sent: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 9:54 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: For Sale - Piet Ribs God morning all. Recently, I purchased a partially completed project from D avid Paulsen in Missouri. I don=99t need the ribs, so plan to sell th em. There are 33 ribs, built for a 1=9D spar, glued with T88. The sp ruce was from Wicks. David did a good job, but they will require a couple o f hours cleaning them up a bit. You can see some pictures on my site www.te xtors.com, under Piet Project, towards the bottom. I=99m asking $300. 00, plus packaging and shipping. If you have questions or wish to purchase, drop me an email at jtextor@thepalmergroup.com. Thanks, Jack Textor Des Moines, IA ________________________________________________________________________ ee AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:38 AM PST US From: "Lynn Knoll" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings Arden, I've never seen them under the fabric but that's not to say it hasn't been done. A picture is worth a thousand words. Go to www.westcoastpiet.com and I'm sure your question will be answered. No Piet builder should be without this source of information. I'm thankful this site is loaded in my favorites because I go to it constantly. Lynn Knoll, Wichita Piet/Vair in the works DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Arden Adamson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings Gentlemen, I have a simple question I'd like your opinion on. Do you mount the wire brace fittings for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer under the covering and protruding through or on top of the covering? Does it even matter? What did you do and/or what do you recommend? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Arden ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:50 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Congradulations Oscar Oscar, Its a great feeling isn't it! NX92GB is pretty well behaved on the ground (except the old goose the throtle smash the rudder and aim the stick at the ground to turn routine), and I imagine your piet is also. There is definatly plenty of rudder athority with slow speeds. I have no experiance with a steerable tailwheel (on a piet) but don't think it would be any harder to control than a Cub or Champ. Just fly it by feel and carry a little extra speed on final untill you get the feel of the landings. I was a little too hot on my 1st landing and used up a lot of runway but touched down smoothly. It wont float as much as a cub or champ with one person aboard. It will flare loose speed rapidly and just bump down and stay down. Start at 55-60 mph over the fence and work down to what you feel it should be. I flew a cub for the 1st time this past November and with me and the owner aboard (probably a little over gross) it was heavy but acted very similar to the piet on landing when I came in at 50mph. Take your time, do things in your own time, and enjoy the hell out of it!! CONGRATS Shad --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings From: Hans Vander Voort Arden, It is up to your personal preference how you do it, I do not think there is right or wrong way here I did mine under the fabric, just like BHP's last original. Hans "Arden Adamson" To Sent by: owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings 01/15/2007 09:57 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Gentlemen, I have a simple question Id like your opinion on. Do you mount the wire brace fittings for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer under the covering and protruding through or on top of the covering? Does it even matter? What did you do and/or what do you recommend? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Arden ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:13 AM PST US From: John Egan Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wet wood? Hi Don, The times I have had to move my still incomplete fuselage, I found that wrapping it with saran wrap or similar tacky-stretchy plastic works well. If there is a bussiness in your area that supplies the big rolls of saran wrap (about 6 inches in diameter) to moving companies, you can buy a roll of it. Look in the phone book under "movers" and look for a company that sells "packing supplies" and they should have it. I wrapped it round and round, at least two layers, then ran lengths of duct tape down the sides, top and bottom lengthwise. Be sure to that the final layer of wrap is layered so the wind doesn't want to catch it and open up the wrapping. I have moved my fuselage many times so far. Fortunately it never got rained on. DONALD COOLEY wrote: Hello, Group! Don Cooley, age 61...retiring from teaching in June...95 days left, but who's counting? My situation: I have purchased Richard daCosta's Piet project, and plan to drive to Maine in June, pick it up and drive home to California with it. I have a contractor's rack on my compact pick-up truck. The question I'd like to put to the group is: Will exposure to some water (rain) hurt the unvarnished wood? I plan to wrap everything carefully with plastic drop cloths, but it seems likely that some water could find its way to the project. Thoughts? I am currently remodeling my garage into a Piet hatchery so I'll be ready to really dig in as a full-time Piet builder. I've had the plans since 1972, so I guess it's about time! Keep the sawdust flying! Don Cooley, Fairfield, California Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-01-07&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-01-07&Archive=Pietenpol =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/07/07: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:04 AM - Get Started! Do Something! (Clif Dawson) 2. 04:45 AM - Kerosene Heater (Larry Rice) 3. 05:49 AM - Re: Get Started! Do Something! (walt evans) 4. 06:33 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Robert Gow) 5. 06:43 AM - Re: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned] (Rob Hart) 6. 06:54 AM - Re: thinking ahead when flying with skis (Ralph) 7. 07:27 AM - Re: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows (HVandervoo@aol.com) 8. 07:38 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (TJ) 9. 07:57 AM - builders ages (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 10. 08:41 AM - Re: builders ages (dwilson) 11. 08:53 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Catdesigns) 12. 09:12 AM - Re: builders ages (Jack T. Textor) 13. 09:48 AM - List: Builder's Ages (Alan Lyscars) 14. 09:49 AM - Re: builders ages (walt evans) 15. 02:30 PM - average age (glich7@juno.com) 16. 02:56 PM - Re: average age (walt evans) 17. 03:19 PM - age (TGSTONE236@aol.com) 18. 03:41 PM - Re: average age (Jeff Boatright) 19. 03:44 PM - Re: age (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 20. 04:16 PM - Re: builders ages (Jack T. Textor) 21. 04:35 PM - Re: builders ages (Gene & Tammy) 22. 05:47 PM - Another dumb question (Gene & Tammy) 23. 06:08 PM - Duane Woolsey? (Jeff Boatright) 24. 06:43 PM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 25. 07:13 PM - Re: builders ages (walt evans) 26. 07:21 PM - Re: List: Builder's Ages (Roman Bukolt) 27. 07:32 PM - Re: builders ages (Don Emch) 28. 07:38 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Don Emch) 29. 08:03 PM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Catdesigns) 30. 08:49 PM - prop (Dick Navratil) 31. 08:52 PM - Re: builders ages (Rcaprd@aol.com) 32. 09:01 PM - Re: prop (Rcaprd@aol.com) 33. 10:09 PM - Re: Get Started! Do Something! (Clif Dawson) 34. 10:46 PM - Re: -CAD (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:50 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something! I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a dinner out for two every month. That includes the three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should get most of the wing completed. You do what you can with the time, space and financial resources life affords you. Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The fuselage went from the left front corner of the living room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something! Drill a hole even. An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space. If you're worried that it will move while you're running something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:59 AM PST US From: Larry Rice Subject: Pietenpol-List: Kerosene Heater You may already know this, but when you get to fabric, no kerosene heat, and if you have to cover it for dust no plastic. An old friend of mine did that and the paint wouldn't stick. Hmmmm - any effect on glue or varnish? I ended up with a small catalytic heater on a propane bottle in my shop. Larry the micro mong guy -- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:04 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something! Cliff, That person was Jim Malley of this group. I still have the Kitplanes issue that featured his Pietenpol on the front cover. It was because of that, that I decided to build a Piet. For all who needs/wants a little inspiration, want to again share this picture, taken from the front seat, comming in over Stickle's Pond headed toward runway 24 on a beautiful summer morning At Newton (Jump) airport. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something! I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a dinner out for two every month. That includes the three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should get most of the wing completed. You do what you can with the time, space and financial resources life affords you. Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The fuselage went from the left front corner of the living room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something! Drill a hole even. An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space. If you're worried that it will move while you're running something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:35 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard I hear you. If you are building one plane it's no too productive. But in the past I've found a lot of dimensional errors and fixed them by converting from paper to CAD because you draw to scale. You can also resolve many ambiguities as well because you have a fully detailed "model". But it would only be worth doing if the plans were shared with new builders. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: January 6, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard John, You guys talking about these CAD drawings are making my eyes glaze over. Stop with the nonsence and just start making some ribs. At this rate you will never get going! You need to start with what you CAN do. Nobody needs any "place to build" to make a rib jig and start producing ribs. A few sticks of spruce and a hand saw and glue are all you need. There has been a lot of talk about tough love and kicks-in-the-butt's on this site as of late. Here's some more---GET STARTED! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned] From: "Rob Hart" Hi Walt I also have that issue of Kitplanes. It was also the article that inspired me to follow the Piet dream. Thanks for the pic, and for the reminder of the start of the journey. To esteemed listers, For those still figuring out when to start cutting or drilling; my advice is to take your time. Measure twice and cut once is a well known adage. Knowing when to start measuring, given the myriad demands on most homebuilders, is perhaps less when understood. Thinking, planning and contemplating is as much doing something as cutting spruce. Pick your own time, not someone else's. Regards Rob VH-PTN; in preparation. Do not archive. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Sunday, 7 January 2007 10:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned] Cliff, That person was Jim Malley of this group. I still have the Kitplanes issue that featured his Pietenpol on the front cover. It was because of that, that I decided to build a Piet. For all who needs/wants a little inspiration, want to again share this picture, taken from the front seat, comming in over Stickle's Pond headed toward runway 24 on a beautiful summer morning At Newton (Jump) airport. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something! I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a dinner out for two every month. That includes the three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should get most of the wing completed. You do what you can with the time, space and financial resources life affords you. Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The fuselage went from the left front corner of the living room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something! Drill a hole even. An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space. If you're worried that it will move while you're running something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors. This message, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, copy or retain this e-mail or the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. AION Diagnostics, Level 2, 40-48 Subiaco Square Road, Subiaco 6008, Australia, Phone: +61 (8) 6461 9400, Fax: +61 (8) 6461 9499 This message, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, copy or retain this e-mail or the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. AION Diagnostics, Level 2, 40-48 Subiaco Square Road, Subiaco 6008, Australia, Phone: +61 (8) 6461 9400, Fax: +61 (8) 6461 9499 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:16 AM PST US From: "Ralph" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: thinking ahead when flying with skis I am also flying a Chief on skis in the snowy weather. I have a pair of wood Call-Air skis. You set the wheel into a metal tube frame on top of the ski and clamp it down.. It takes about ten minutes to change with the help of the wife. I hope to incorporate something similar for the Piet. (thirteen years down, about ready to cover the wings). If you land in snow in a field, always circle around and park in you own tracks. It really helps to not have to break trail when first starting to move. I always grab the ski tip and lift up before starting up the engine. That breaks loose any freeze down that might occur. Carol and Ralph Raymond ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:16 AM PST US From: HVandervoo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows Rick, Program I use is Visio 2000, it is a simple draft program. By no means as good and versatile as AutoCAD but cheap and simple to use. Hans ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:55 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard From: "TJ" Hi Guys I can tell you from a newbies point of view that I wish someone would redraw everything in CAD. I know when my plans first came I looked them over every which way and couldnt make much outta them. After I met a few guys like Jim Markle and Larry Williams and looked over what they have, then I started to understand them better. I lucked out and bumped into a guy named Frank Hiles that lives 45 minutes from me that has built 4 Piets and is on his 5th one now and hes showing how to build now. Razorbacks Rule!!! (Well maybe not this year but somtimes, maybe once in a while, I think I remember when they did, OK maybe not, but then whos cares anyway, thats why I like flying and not football) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86044#86044 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: builders ages From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Mike C. 47 and still keeping to my goal of keeping my waistline measurement under my age:) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: builders ages From: "dwilson" Dan Wilson, age 50. Would like to finish my Piet while I can still pass the vision test. Just got my first pair of glasses! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86063#86063 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:33 AM PST US From: "Catdesigns" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard Early on I drew up all the fittings in CAD and would advise against doing this. The fittings I have tried to make based on the CAD drawings are not always correct. Accurate to the plans yes but not correct for the job they are intended to do. Sometimes the holes are a bit off and sometimes the size of the fitting is a bit small. Plus you will want to lengthen the fittings in a few places to access the bolt heads. For instance, take a look at the front tailwheel mounting fitting, the one with the 3 fingers on it. Notice how the bolt holes for mounting it to the fuselage interfere with each other? If you were to blindly follow the plans you would be making these fittings again, hopefully before you drilled your holes in the lower longeron. Sorry, don't ask for the files because I think releasing them into the world would give a false sense of accuracy that I don't want to promote. One thing you will find as you build is the plans turn out to be better then you thought. They may look poor at first glance but after a while you start to get in the groove and they turn out to be just fine. You soon realize that you worry about some dimensions but others are whatever length is required to fit YOUR particular assembly. The best approach is to get the idea from the plans then fine tune the location and dimensions to make the part fit your assembly correctly and serve the intended purpose. The important thing is to make a strong well built plane. Don't waste your time trying to build to the exact 1/64th because that's what the plans said it had to be. By the way I'm now 39. Was 33 when I started. Probably be 45 when done :-( Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Glass" Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard > > > Hi > > I have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet > started building. > > It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list. === message truncated == --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:26 AM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wet wood? Congrats on your upcoming retirement from a fellow California teacher. I have a little more than 95 days left as I'm only 30 and this is my third year teaching. What do you teach? I teach CAD/Drafting and Automotive at Tulare Union High School. Im sure that having a large project will help in the transition to retirement. It helped my father who retired a few years back from teaching (from the same school I teach at). He didn't do an airplane, he built a street rod, but having a project was good for him. As for the moisture with the wood I would think if you wrapped it up tightly to keep the direct water off of it you would be fine. But like was said already you will want to unwrap it and get it into your garage (hatchery) as soon as you get back home. Mike Groah (collecting pieces for my piet and getting other projects wrapped up so I can put all my play time into the Piet (I must finish my cushman project which is almost done and my Firebird project which is coming along first) http://www.groverfabs.com/MISCpersonal.htm DONALD COOLEY wrote: Hello, Group! Don Cooley, age 61...retiring from teaching in June...95 days left, but who's counting? My situation: I have purchased Richard daCosta's Piet project, and plan to drive to Maine in June, pick it up and drive home to California with it. I have a contractor's rack on my compact pick-up truck. The question I'd like to put to the group is: Will exposure to some water (rain) hurt the unvarnished wood? I plan to wrap everything carefully with plastic drop cloths, but it seems likely that some water could find its way to the project. Thoughts? I am currently remodeling my garage into a Piet hatchery so I'll be ready to really dig in as a full-time Piet builder. I've had the plans since 1972, so I guess it's about time! Keep the sawdust flying! Don Cooley, Fairfield, California Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-01-07&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-01-07&Archive=Pietenpol =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/07/07: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:04 AM - Get Started! Do Something! (Clif Dawson) 2. 04:45 AM - Kerosene Heater (Larry Rice) 3. 05:49 AM - Re: Get Started! Do Something! (walt evans) 4. 06:33 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Robert Gow) 5. 06:43 AM - Re: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned] (Rob Hart) 6. 06:54 AM - Re: thinking ahead when flying with skis (Ralph) 7. 07:27 AM - Re: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows (HVandervoo@aol.com) 8. 07:38 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (TJ) 9. 07:57 AM - builders ages (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 10. 08:41 AM - Re: builders ages (dwilson) 11. 08:53 AM - Re: CAD versus cardboard (Catdesigns) 12. 09:12 AM - Re: builders ages (Jack T. Textor) 13. 09:48 AM - List: Builder's Ages (Alan Lyscars) 14. 09:49 AM - Re: builders ages (walt evans) 15. 02:30 PM - average age (glich7@juno.com) 16. 02:56 PM - Re: average age (walt evans) 17. 03:19 PM - age (TGSTONE236@aol.com) 18. 03:41 PM - Re: average age (Jeff Boatright) 19. 03:44 PM - Re: age (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 20. 04:16 PM - Re: builders ages (Jack T. Textor) 21. 04:35 PM - Re: builders ages (Gene & Tammy) 22. 05:47 PM - Another dumb question (Gene & Tammy) 23. 06:08 PM - Duane Woolsey? (Jeff Boatright) 24. 06:43 PM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 25. 07:13 PM - Re: builders ages (walt evans) 26. 07:21 PM - Re: List: Builder's Ages (Roman Bukolt) 27. 07:32 PM - Re: builders ages (Don Emch) 28. 07:38 PM - Re: Another dumb question (Don Emch) 29. 08:03 PM - Re: Duane Woolsey? (Catdesigns) 30. 08:49 PM - prop (Dick Navratil) 31. 08:52 PM - Re: builders ages (Rcaprd@aol.com) 32. 09:01 PM - Re: prop (Rcaprd@aol.com) 33. 10:09 PM - Re: Get Started! Do Something! (Clif Dawson) 34. 10:46 PM - Re: -CAD (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:50 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something! I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a dinner out for two every month. That includes the three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should get most of the wing completed. You do what you can with the time, space and financial resources life affords you. Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The fuselage went from the left front corner of the living room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something! Drill a hole even. An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space. If you're worried that it will move while you're running something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:59 AM PST US From: Larry Rice Subject: Pietenpol-List: Kerosene Heater You may already know this, but when you get to fabric, no kerosene heat, and if you have to cover it for dust no plastic. An old friend of mine did that and the paint wouldn't stick. Hmmmm - any effect on glue or varnish? I ended up with a small catalytic heater on a propane bottle in my shop. Larry the micro mong guy -- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:04 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something! Cliff, That person was Jim Malley of this group. I still have the Kitplanes issue that featured his Pietenpol on the front cover. It was because of that, that I decided to build a Piet. For all who needs/wants a little inspiration, want to again share this picture, taken from the front seat, comming in over Stickle's Pond headed toward runway 24 on a beautiful summer morning At Newton (Jump) airport. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something! I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a dinner out for two every month. That includes the three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should get most of the wing completed. You do what you can with the time, space and financial resources life affords you. Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The fuselage went from the left front corner of the living room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something! Drill a hole even. An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space. If you're worried that it will move while you're running something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:35 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard I hear you. If you are building one plane it's no too productive. But in the past I've found a lot of dimensional errors and fixed them by converting from paper to CAD because you draw to scale. You can also resolve many ambiguities as well because you have a fully detailed "model". But it would only be worth doing if the plans were shared with new builders. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: January 6, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard John, You guys talking about these CAD drawings are making my eyes glaze over. Stop with the nonsence and just start making some ribs. At this rate you will never get going! You need to start with what you CAN do. Nobody needs any "place to build" to make a rib jig and start producing ribs. A few sticks of spruce and a hand saw and glue are all you need. There has been a lot of talk about tough love and kicks-in-the-butt's on this site as of late. Here's some more---GET STARTED! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned] From: "Rob Hart" Hi Walt I also have that issue of Kitplanes. It was also the article that inspired me to follow the Piet dream. Thanks for the pic, and for the reminder of the start of the journey. To esteemed listers, For those still figuring out when to start cutting or drilling; my advice is to take your time. Measure twice and cut once is a well known adage. Knowing when to start measuring, given the myriad demands on most homebuilders, is perhaps less when understood. Thinking, planning and contemplating is as much doing something as cutting spruce. Pick your own time, not someone else's. Regards Rob VH-PTN; in preparation. Do not archive. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Sunday, 7 January 2007 10:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something![Scanned] Cliff, That person was Jim Malley of this group. I still have the Kitplanes issue that featured his Pietenpol on the front cover. It was because of that, that I decided to build a Piet. For all who needs/wants a little inspiration, want to again share this picture, taken from the front seat, comming in over Stickle's Pond headed toward runway 24 on a beautiful summer morning At Newton (Jump) airport. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get Started! Do Something! I've been building for seven years. I'll be 64 in Feb. I estimate that my outlay has been the equivalent of a dinner out for two every month. That includes the three Corvair engines as core parts and a few new parts for them. The fuselage and tail are complete with controls. The first thing I did was make the tail surfaces. Then I made the ribs. This year I should get most of the wing completed. You do what you can with the time, space and financial resources life affords you. Many years ago there was a series of 3 articles by a young Piet builder, mostly centered around his trials and tribulations with dope and fabric. He and his wife built the thing in a small, second story apartment. The fuselage went from the left front corner of the living room across to the fridge in the kitchen. There is a pic of them hoisting the finished fuselage out the window and down to the ground. Granted, many of us don't, or didn't, have such enthusiastic significant others but I'm sure you can see the moral to this story. Do something! Drill a hole even. An idea I've seen is a heavy table 4' square to which are mounted all the power tools and a vise or two. This table sits on four heavy castors with brakes on them. You can move and rotate this sucker all around the shop to access each tool as it's needed, even outside if you need the space. If you're worried that it will move while you're running something through the band or table saw, I'll tell you that my 28" by 96" rolling radial arm saw table doesn't budge an inch! It's on three inch, locking castors. This message, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, copy or retain this e-mail or the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. AION Diagnostics, Level 2, 40-48 Subiaco Square Road, Subiaco 6008, Australia, Phone: +61 (8) 6461 9400, Fax: +61 (8) 6461 9499 This message, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, copy or retain this e-mail or the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. AION Diagnostics, Level 2, 40-48 Subiaco Square Road, Subiaco 6008, Australia, Phone: +61 (8) 6461 9400, Fax: +61 (8) 6461 9499 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:16 AM PST US From: "Ralph" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: thinking ahead when flying with skis I am also flying a Chief on skis in the snowy weather. I have a pair of wood Call-Air skis. You set the wheel into a metal tube frame on top of the ski and clamp it down.. It takes about ten minutes to change with the help of the wife. I hope to incorporate something similar for the Piet. (thirteen years down, about ready to cover the wings). If you land in snow in a field, always circle around and park in you own tracks. It really helps to not have to break trail when first starting to move. I always grab the ski tip and lift up before starting up the engine. That breaks loose any freeze down that might occur. Carol and Ralph Raymond ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:16 AM PST US From: HVandervoo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Securing plane and J3 eyebrows Rick, Program I use is Visio 2000, it is a simple draft program. By no means as good and versatile as AutoCAD but cheap and simple to use. Hans ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:55 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard From: "TJ" Hi Guys I can tell you from a newbies point of view that I wish someone would redraw everything in CAD. I know when my plans first came I looked them over every which way and couldnt make much outta them. After I met a few guys like Jim Markle and Larry Williams and looked over what they have, then I started to understand them better. I lucked out and bumped into a guy named Frank Hiles that lives 45 minutes from me that has built 4 Piets and is on his 5th one now and hes showing how to build now. Razorbacks Rule!!! (Well maybe not this year but somtimes, maybe once in a while, I think I remember when they did, OK maybe not, but then whos cares anyway, thats why I like flying and not football) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86044#86044 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: builders ages From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Mike C. 47 and still keeping to my goal of keeping my waistline measurement under my age:) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: builders ages From: "dwilson" Dan Wilson, age 50. Would like to finish my Piet while I can still pass the vision test. Just got my first pair of glasses! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86063#86063 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:33 AM PST US From: "Catdesigns" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard Early on I drew up all the fittings in CAD and would advise against doing this. The fittings I have tried to make based on the CAD drawings are not always correct. Accurate to the plans yes but not correct for the job they are intended to do. Sometimes the holes are a bit off and sometimes the size of the fitting is a bit small. Plus you will want to lengthen the fittings in a few places to access the bolt heads. For instance, take a look at the front tailwheel mounting fitting, the one with the 3 fingers on it. Notice how the bolt holes for mounting it to the fuselage interfere with each other? If you were to blindly follow the plans you would be making these fittings again, hopefully before you drilled your holes in the lower longeron. Sorry, don't ask for the files because I think releasing them into the world would give a false sense of accuracy that I don't want to promote. One thing you will find as you build is the plans turn out to be better then you thought. They may look poor at first glance but after a while you start to get in the groove and they turn out to be just fine. You soon realize that you worry about some dimensions but others are whatever length is required to fit YOUR particular assembly. The best approach is to get the idea from the plans then fine tune the location and dimensions to make the part fit your assembly correctly and serve the intended purpose. The important thing is to make a strong well built plane. Don't waste your time trying to build to the exact 1/64th because that's what the plans said it had to be. By the way I'm now 39. Was 33 when I started. Probably be 45 when done :-( Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Glass" Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard > > > Hi > > I have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet > started building. > > It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list. === message truncated == --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:16 AM PST US From: DONALD COOLEY Subject: Pietenpol-List: Apology Hello, group, I apologize for forgetting to snip before I replied to yesterday's digest. I'll be more careful in the future. Keep the sawdust flying! Don Cooley Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:39 PM PST US From: "Steve Singleton" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question ---Hi everyone- I've found a source locally that has 1/8in Baltic Birch in 5x5 sheets and am wanting to use it for Gusset material. Would this be aceptable to use? Thanks. Steve Singleton ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:31 PM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question Steve, Baltic Birch is an interior grade plywood (the glue is not waterproof), and is NOT recommended for aircraft. The other consideration is that is mainly intended for finish applications - the interior plys may not be up to aircraft spec structurally. What you can use that is cheaper than aircraft grade is Marine Grade plywood that meets a spec (don't remember the #) for waterproofness, quality of interior plys, etc. It is generally sold in metric thicknesses (made in Israel), so you'll need to convert (~25mm/inch). If I remember correctly, the best source for this is a marine building supply company that's called Noah's (?). They have locations in Buffalo and Toronto. Kip Gardner At 4:59 PM -0600 1/15/07, Steve Singleton wrote: > > >---Hi everyone- I've found a source locally that has 1/8in Baltic >Birch in 5x5 sheets and am wanting to use it for Gusset material. >Would this be aceptable to use? Thanks. Steve Singleton > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -- North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:55 PM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wet wood? Donald: I live less than a half mile form Richard Decosta. I thought he had sold that about 2 years ago but my UPS man just told me it was still in his garage last week. I have seen the plane it is a nice short fuselage Piet built to the original construction manual if I recall correctly. I passed on buying it as I could not fit in the short fuse with my big clodhoppers. As for wrapping the thing with shipping grade saran wrap you'd likely be fine. Just be sure to wrap in the right direction so the wind don't blow it off. U-Haul sells the stuff in 18 inch wide rolls. Transport should be easy as it is the 3 piece wing. If you are really concerned we are right on the coast an thus we have a lot of boating around here. And we also have a lot of folks that do shrink wrapping of boats for winter storage. I am certain that if you were up for it you could get it shrink wrapped for the trip by one of the fellows that do that around here. Richard or myself could come up with some phone numbers for you. It may give you the extra peace of mind for the long journey. I hauled a project home from western Vermont just a week before Christmas and was having a kinipshen fit when I went through a couple of rain brief and ever so slight showers. They passed quick enough. http://rides.webshots.com/album/147451245dhnmgI the piet parts are in the basement for now michael silvius scarborough, maine ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:18 PM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb questionhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/wppages/finnishbirch.php http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=9/index.html http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=8/index.html ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:53 PM PST US From: "Steve Singleton" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb questionThanks Kip-The price was really cheap. I guess thats why. Just a tibit of info-I'm 48 and yes a waist line that should be somewhat smaller. I built the ribs last winter (glued them up in the living room) If i have the Piet done by the time I'm 50 I'll be doing great. I only fell twice today on the ice comeing and going between the shop and house. Steve Singleton ----- Original Message ----- From: Kip and Beth Gardner To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another dumb question Steve, Baltic Birch is an interior grade plywood (the glue is not waterproof), and is NOT recommended for aircraft. The other consideration is that is mainly intended for finish applications - the interior plys may not be up to aircraft spec structurally. What ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:43 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: down in 230' wow! what fun today. Been practicing short field landings in our Taylorcraft. Today I managed down and stopped in 230' (see attached) Winds were ahead at 9kts. I wonder... a Piet/GN-1 should be able to do the same right?? For those flying, what's your shortest landing in your Piet and what were the winds? DJ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:59 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wet wood? My choice for moving large object this way is 10 mil poly. It's 10 ft wide and you buy it in any length you want. Wrap the part in it with the seam on the "bottom" surface away from the rain. You'll have to plan that of course. :-) Tape up seams with lots of duct tape. The problem I see with the saran wrap idea is that there are multitudes of seams, each a potential leak. It doesn't always stick to itself as well as you would need. Now how would I know that? :-) The shrink wrap is a good one too. I like that. I think it just boils down to which you one guys think would be easier. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: MICHAEL SILVIUS To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wet wood? Donald: As for wrapping the thing with shipping grade saran wrap you'd likely be fine. Just be sure to wrap in the right direction so the wind don't blow it off. And we also have a lot of folks that do shrink wrapping of boats for winter storage. I am certain that if you were up for it you could get it shrink wrapped for the trip by one of the fellows that do that around here. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:10 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wet wood? Here I go again after saying I never would again. May I suggest that you get up to Maine a few days earlier than planned put on a couple of coats of good spar varnish, 1st coat thinned then 2d coat full strength out of the can. I like Ace hardware gloss. Then you wouldn't have to wrap anything or worry about plastic flying. I'm thinking like a completed fuse of course. Just a thought but I bet that's the way I'd do it. Corky ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:48 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings In a message dated 1/15/2007 10:01:45 AM Central Standard Time, aadamson@wnmdag.org writes: Gentlemen, I have a simple question I=99d like your opinion on. Do you mount the wire brace fittings for the rudder and horizontal stabilizer under the covering a nd protruding through or on top of the covering? Does it even matter? What di d you do and/or what do you recommend? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Arden Arden, The tail wire brace fittings for the vertical and horizontal stabilizer, are Under the fabric. I used 3/16" iron rivets, called out in the plans, so it was a permanent install, before fabric. You need to have them installed whe n you pre-fit the empenage. Then you the parts, and cover the vert & horiz st abs, with just a slit for the fittings to protrude, then install a re-enforcing small round patch (about 3" diameter), slit for the protruding fitting, with the fibers running at about a 45=C2=BA to the covering, on top of the fabric. A llow the fabric to creep up on the fitting, and it makes for a nice clean looking , and waterproof install. You can see the fittings here, as well as how I set up the heel brakes, sealed hinge gaps, and means to jack the plane up http://nx770cg.com/Unique.html Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:06 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace fittings Arden, In general, early designs having a wooden structure (and the Pietenpol fits this category) have fittings placed outside the fabric covering. The DeHavilland Moths, among others, did it this way because: 1. Inspection of fittings is made easy. 2. Fabric covering is easier to accomplish. 3. It is easy to seal between the fabric and the fittings.* 4. Removal/replacement of fittings or bolts is facilitated. 5. You get a nice "antique" appearance. * Use a high quality marine sealant here. Covering the fittings with fabric is OK, but make sure no water can enter where the fitting emerges from the fabric. This can be difficult to accomplish for long term protection. I opted to place my fittings outside the fabric and tolerate the extra drag they produce. After all, what's a bit more drag to a Pietenpol? Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.