---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/23/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Re: saving hands and fingers on the table saw (Clif Dawson) 2. 04:52 AM - Oscar's Pietenpol Presentation (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 3. 05:56 AM - Re: saving hands and fingers on the table saw (amsafetyc@aol.com) 4. 06:25 AM - saws (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 5. 07:10 AM - Re: Steamin' Curious (Bill Church) 6. 07:38 AM - Re: Steamin' Curious (HelsperSew@aol.com) 7. 08:21 AM - Re: saws (Bill Church) 8. 08:32 AM - Re: Steamin' Curious (Bill Church) 9. 09:00 AM - Re: Steamin' Curious (amsafetyc@aol.com) 10. 09:25 AM - Re: Steamin' Curious (Bill Church) 11. 10:58 AM - Re: saws (Glenn W. Thomas) 12. 11:55 AM - push sticks (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 13. 11:59 AM - Re: saws (del magsam) 14. 01:21 PM - Re: saws (Bill Church) 15. 02:17 PM - Re: Fly-In in Central Florida... seeking Piets & other interesting airplanes (Eric Williams) 16. 03:52 PM - Re: saws (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 17. 04:16 PM - Re: saws (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 18. 04:29 PM - Re: Fly-In in Central Florida... seeking Piets & other interesting airplanes (Ben Charvet) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:50 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: saving hands and fingers on the table saw Why pay for something you already have? It's a wonderful piece of natural technology called "Situational Awareness". To paraphrase, it's "Where the Eye Meets the Blade." Like any fine tool it benefits from sharpening. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: GlennThomas@flyingwood.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: saving hands and fingers on the table saw Hmmm, I wonder if this technology could be adapted to my circa 1950 Cast Iron Craftsman table saw. Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oscar's Pietenpol Presentation From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Oscar-- if your crowd has a decent sense of humor perhaps you could show them this highly modified Pietenpol Biplane doing a smoke job on takeoff from what appears to be a ramp/hangar area. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: saving hands and fingers on the table saw From: amsafetyc@aol.com As the consummate safety director that I am, I have contacted them to ask th e same question. A retro fit for all saws would save tons of injuries, indus trial as well as infrequent hobbyist and the dedicated Piet builder. It shou ld be interesting to see a reply of which I will share as soon as they get b ack to me. Although I have the professional interest, as of this week end I was putting my table saw together, thinking about the hazards associated with it and ho w to prevent them. John -----Original Message----- From: glennthomas@flyingwood.com Sent: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: saving hands and fingers on the table saw Hmmm, I wonder if this technology could be adapted to my circa 1950 Cast Iron Craf tsman table saw. Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 2:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: saving hands and fingers on the table saw Click on the hot dog demo video if nothing else. Amazinga small electrical charge in this saw's blade is constantly monitored and if your finger or hand touches the blade it changes the charge slightly that the electronics are mo nitoring in the blade and an aluminum blade brake stops the saw in something like 1/4000th of a se cond. Amazinga small electrical charge in this saw's blade is constantly monitored and if your finger or hand touches the blade it changes the charge slightly that the electronics are mo nitoring in the blade and an aluminum blade brake stops the saw in something like 1/4000th of a se cond. http://www.sawstop.com/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________ ee AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: saws From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Those saws with the auto stop were priced at $2,799 and I would venture to say that they would not sell retrofit kits for older saws due to liability if installed wrong and then you cut off some fingers. Purely a guess, you'd have to contact them. The video explained that every 9 minutes in the US someone accidentally amputates their fingers and they say that the great majority are professional/full-time cabinet makers and construction workers who become so comfortable and relaxed around those saws that they get bit when least expecting it. I was fairly hyper-aware of that blade during the hundreds, if not thousands of cuts I made too (Glenn Thomas) on my 1950's Craftsman table saw (with a nice Freud blade that still cuts like butter) but towards the end of the project could see myself falling into that casual hotshot Mr. Table saw expert mentality and one kickback into my gut that left a huge purple target woke me up bigtime. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steamin' Curious From: "Bill Church" Granted, this isn't an airplane part, but here's an example of the power of steam bending. In the attached photo you'll see a small wooden box I just built (from a kit) http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=53191&cat=1,250,43313 &ap=1 The wood (cherry) is 1/16" thick, and was soaked in hot water for about 20 minutes, then put into my capstrip steamer for another 20 minutes. I was amazed how pliable the wood became. Of course, the thinner the strip, the more pliable it is, so it's no real surprise that the thin strips were much more bendy (scientific term)than my 1/4" x 1/2" spruce capstrips were, but look how sharp those ends are bent. It's important to get the wood wet and hot. The heat helps to change the structure of the lignin (the "glue" that holds the wood fibers together) and allows the wood fibers to move. When the wood cools down and dries out, it holds the shape. This box doesn't use any glue - just a few copper tacks and a few tiny wooden dowels (toothpicks). While it may be possible to build your wing ribs without steaming or soaking your top capstrips and pre-bending them, I think it would put unnecessary stress in your rib structure, and make fitting your pieces into your rib jig more frustrating. Afterall, what you are trying to achieve is a strong, stable, lightweight, consistant profile. The fuselage longerons, however, have a much gentler curve (especially the "Improved Air Camper" (1933) plans as compared to the Flying and Glider plans), and are not necessary to pre-bend - although I haven't done my fuselage yet, so what do I know. You would need quite a big steam box to steam your longerons. Bill C ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:03 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steamin' Curious Bill, I built all my ribs before I knew I was supposed to steam the top cap strip. The guys at Brodhead said they had heard of ribs breaking after the airplane had been flown awhile. They scared me, so I took all my finished ribs, and soaked the noses of them in warm water in a 5 gal. bucket. When I took them out, two of the top cap strip pieces had broken at the sharpest point. I had to make these two ribs over again. My thinking was that soaking after completion relieved the stress, and was better than nothing. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: saws From: "Bill Church" When it comes to power tools, especially the table saw, one always has to keep in the FRONT (as opposed to the back) of one's mind just how powerful these tools are and how much respect they deserve. Take any chunk of wood and cut through it with a handsaw. Then cut that same piece of wood and do the same cut on a tablesaw. All that work that your arm did to cut the wood is packed into that one or two seconds of the tablesaw cut. Fingers are softer than wood, and. sawblades don't discriminate. I got my wake-up call when one time I decided to adjust the blade height without shutting the saw off. I got my eye level down to the saw table height and was using a piece of wood as reference for the desired blade height, when the wood made contact with the spinning blade. It kicked back, and the small piece of wood hit me square between the eyes. An inch or so to either side and I am sure I would have lost an eye. As it was I just ended up with a very conspicuous welt in the middle of my forehead. I was extremely lucky. Since then I have never made adjustments to the blade height or angle without shutting the saw off. ALWAYS be prepared for kickback, allowing a path for the wood to travel in that doesn't include contact with or passing through your body. Use a featherboard whenever possible. I have one more reminder of the need to respect the power of the table saw - my father-in-law's fingers (or lack thereof). He lost about one and a half fingers in a fraction of a second on his table saw several years ago. Unlike starfish, human fingers don't grow back. Be safe. Stay awake. Bill C ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:13 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steamin' Curious From: "Bill Church" Dan, My guess is that the two capstrips that broke probably had defects or weak spots in the wood, and would have also broken if you had pre-soaked and pre-bent them. The lucky part is that you found out before you had them assembled into a wing, and could easily replace them. Bill C ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steamin' Curious From: amsafetyc@aol.com That makes a good point, if the hot water test is found to be an acceptable stress inspection technique. Should that become a recommended practice for checking ribs either home made or purchased from another builder to identify ribs that may fail in flight? John -----Original Message----- From: eng@canadianrogers.com Sent: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:31 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steamin' Curious Dan, My guess is that the two capstrips that broke probably had defects or weak spots in the wood, and would have also broken if you had pre-soaked and pre-bent them. The lucky part is that you found out before you had them assembled into a wing, and could easily replace them. Bill C ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steamin' Curious From: "Bill Church" John, Before you start cooking your ribs, one thing to watch out for is whether the ribs were constructed with T-88 (or similar epoxy). These epoxies are not intended for high temperature applications, and sticking your assembled rib into a pot of boiling water might net you with a collection of loose sticks. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: saws From: "Glenn W. Thomas" I suppose a $2700 upgrade to a $25.00 kick-butt tablesaw found at a tag sale doesn't make sense. What does make sense is push sticks, a concept as old as tablesaws. Do not archive > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: push sticks From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Absolutely, Glenn. My old Sears table saw gave me outstanding service and used push sticks on 95% of my cuts. One push stick and a second push type stick to keep the work piece against the fence. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:41 AM PST US From: del magsam Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: saws Always keep to front of the sawblade as well, never reach around behind and pull something through. This is how people loose fingers 99 percent of the time. Del Bill Church wrote: When it comes to power tools, especially the table saw, one always has to keep in the FRONT (as opposed to the back) of one's mind Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: saws From: "Bill Church" Actually, you want to be a little off to the side, not directly in front of the blade. Carbide-tipped sawblades (which is the vast majority of the sawblades sold today) have been known to throw a tooth on occasion, if they are damaged. That tooth will be flying at over 100 - 125mph - a nasty little projectile that you don't want to hit your body parts. But, yes reaching to the back side of the blade is a good way to get your fingers pulled into the blade. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:07 PM PST US From: "Eric Williams" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fly-In in Central Florida... seeking Piets & other interesting airplanes We Cessna drivers won't be turned away by a squadron of Piets if we try to fly in will we? >From: "Mike Whaley" >To: "Pietenpol List" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fly-In in Central Florida... seeking Piets & other >interesting airplanes >Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:38:59 -0500 > > >Hi all, > >I know this is a bit off-topic but perhaps it will be of interest to those >of you in Florida... we're having a little fly-in / aviation day type event >on February 17th at Valkaria Airport (X59) and we're trying to round up >"exotic" aircraft to show all the interesting aspects of general and >recreational aviation to the community. ("Exotic" meaning anything except a >white Cessna 152, basically... homebuilts, warbirds, ultralights, balloons, >helicopters, anti-gravity boots, rocket belts, magic flying carpets, big >red >bulletproof capes, etc.) Valkaria is a small uncontrolled field a little >bit >south of Melbourne on the east coast of Florida, with cheap avgas and some >interesting homebuilt activity. > >If anyone is interested in attending, get in touch with me and I can give >you more info, or check out our website: > >http://www.mlbpilots.org/ValkariaAirFest/ > >Thanks! > >-Mike > >Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net >Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association >http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:28 PM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: saws Had one of them flying carbide tips embed in my eye lid once!!!!! TABLE SAW SAFETY 101 your hands should never be on the table saw top. ---EVER--- use a push stick and a feather board, if you bugger up your wood - - -big deal!!!, it can be replaced, not so your fingers, besides it really sucks to try and pick your nose with stumps. 20 yrs of making a living as a carpenter and still have all my digits if you wrap your fingers around your board so as they make contact with the edge of the table top when they get to it your hands will never go near the blade. now for angle grinders- - - had cutting wheel shatter on me this summer. Makita 10k rpm, estimated distance to my belly 17 inches. the two inch piece that hit my belly (yes guard was on) was found in the neighbors garage 200 feet across the street. felt like a gun shot to the gut. Doubeld over out of breath for 5 minutes. Waiting to see the blod gush between my gloved fingers. I was real lucky, fortunately it hit side on as opposed to on edge so no penetration. the apple sized purple-pink-black-and-blue was sore as al getup for 32 weeks and took 3 months to dissipate. be safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church . Carbide-tipped sawblades have been known to throw a tooth on occasion ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:10 PM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: saws that was meant to read 3 weeks!! not 32 I Have no stumps but I type as if I doo!!! -black-and-blue was sore as al getup for 32 weeks and took 3 months to dissipate. be safe. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:53 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fly-In in Central Florida... seeking Piets & other interesting airplanes My Pietenpol won't be able to make it (still a few years away from flight), but I may be able to come in my Baby Ace. I bought it from a guy in my EAA chapter (866), and it was built in 1955. Not too exotic, but a homebuilt that old has to be a classic. I haven't flown it yet, cause I'm one test ride away from my BFR and tailwheel endorsement. If I get a chance to get in some flight practice and the weather looks good I'll head your way. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Mike Whaley wrote: > >Hi all, > >I know this is a bit off-topic but perhaps it will be of interest to those >of you in Florida... we're having a little fly-in / aviation day type event >on February 17th at Valkaria Airport (X59) and we're trying to round up >"exotic" aircraft to show all the interesting aspects of general and >recreational aviation to the community. ( > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.