Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:28 AM - Ethanol Tester (Larry Rice)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: E-85 (OT) (Tim Verthein)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: Ethanol Tester (walt evans)
4. 07:03 AM - weather check in (walt evans)
5. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: E-85 (OT) (Kip and Beth Gardner)
6. 08:49 AM - smoke (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
7. 09:38 AM - Re: Taxing with a fixed tailwheel (Rick Holland)
8. 10:29 AM - Re: weather check in (Don Emch)
9. 10:48 AM - Re: smoke (Don Emch)
10. 11:03 AM - smoke (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
11. 11:04 AM - Things with Props (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 11:45 AM - Builders log (amsafetyc@aol.com)
13. 02:38 PM - Re: weather check in (Catdesigns)
14. 04:17 PM - Re: Builders log (GlennThomas@flyingwood.com)
15. 08:14 PM - I'm a Pietenpol pilot (Oscar Zuniga)
16. 08:50 PM - Oklahoma Fly-In, Saturday February 10th (Steve Ruse)
17. 09:39 PM - Re: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings? (Gary Gower)
18. 09:39 PM - Re: Builders log (KMHeide)
Message 1
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I used an "olive jar" ethanol tester for years with good results. It
does have one problem - if you get gas with ethanol that has already
absorbed water to the point of saturation, you will get the same results
as with straight gas. It is going to work properly the great majority of
the time, that's a lot better than no test at all, and by combining the
test results with checking the label on the pump and asking the folks in
the office if their fuel is alcohol free, you ought to be in good shape.
BTW, I agree that we can't replace petroleum with ethanol, etc, at the
moment. However, every little bit that we do replace will make the
petroleum last longer. Remember, during the worst times in '73 to '74 we
were only about 10% short. Ethanol is a darn good octane booster,
probably makes great sense for that purpose compared to MTBE.
I've also read that the reduction in mileage with ethanol is not quite
as much as the BTU numbers alone would cause one to think, due to some
other factors that improve efficiency (charge cooling, higher flame
speed leading to high pressure earlier in the combustion cycle, etc). If
you boosted compression in an ethanol only engine, I don't know where
you'd end up.
IMHO, when it comes to fixing our energy problems, there's not likely to
be a single magic bullet. It will be a mix of biofuels, solar, wind,
nukes (fusion, I hope), improved efficiency, etc that will get us there
in the long run.
Larry the micro mong guy
--
Message 2
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Wow! I'm sure this E-85 thread is waaaay off topic by now, but just for
the record, I'm finding it all fascinating. Couple quick comments....
Here in Minnesota, at least up north here (where right now, it's -27
below zero at my house) E-85 is substantially less expensive than any
other gas at the pump...sometimes up to a buck less. And as I
understand it, it's cheaper 'cause our tax dollars are going to
subsidize it's production, etc..so we're really still paying plenty for
it..but those who don't try to use it are paying for it and not getting
any of it!
And, at least as far as the 3 Corvair guys I know running it, they're
losing about 2-3 MPG in a car that is generally getting 25-27 mpg, so
that's not anywhere the 1/3 loss that's been mentioned, of course, not
exactly scientific research!
And I'm running 110LL avgas in my 1958 Edsel.
Tim in Bovey (going out to see if my truck will start now)
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Tester |
Larry,
The company that I work for has recently qualified to do the wind generator
work. We have about 4 guys who travel as needed for repairs. I've never been
in one, but the pictures thay bring back are amazing.
Start by checking out the ones in Texas on Chuck G.,s video.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Rice" <rice@iapdatacom.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 9:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ethanol Tester
>
> I used an "olive jar" ethanol tester for years with good results. It does
> have one problem - if you get gas with ethanol that has already absorbed
> water to the point of saturation, you will get the same results as with
> straight gas. It is going to work properly the great majority of the time,
> that's a lot better than no test at all, and by combining the test results
> with checking the label on the pump and asking the folks in the office if
> their fuel is alcohol free, you ought to be in good shape.
>
> BTW, I agree that we can't replace petroleum with ethanol, etc, at the
> moment. However, every little bit that we do replace will make the
> petroleum last longer. Remember, during the worst times in '73 to '74 we
> were only about 10% short. Ethanol is a darn good octane booster, probably
> makes great sense for that purpose compared to MTBE.
>
> I've also read that the reduction in mileage with ethanol is not quite as
> much as the BTU numbers alone would cause one to think, due to some other
> factors that improve efficiency (charge cooling, higher flame speed
> leading to high pressure earlier in the combustion cycle, etc). If you
> boosted compression in an ethanol only engine, I don't know where you'd
> end up.
>
> IMHO, when it comes to fixing our energy problems, there's not likely to
> be a single magic bullet. It will be a mix of biofuels, solar, wind, nukes
> (fusion, I hope), improved efficiency, etc that will get us there in the
> long run.
>
> Larry the micro mong guy
>
>
> --
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | weather check in |
It's 1000 , and the temp. in sunny NJ has just gotten up to +6F and
sunny. and 3" of snow on the ground.
Sure a far cry from all the way up to Christmas, with days in the 50s,
60s and even in the 70s.
Anyone else want to check in with there local weather?
walt evans
NX140DL
do not archive
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: re: E-85 (OT) |
At 6:40 AM -0800 2/4/07, Tim Verthein wrote:
><minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
>Wow! I'm sure this E-85 thread is waaaay off topic by now, but just for
>the record, I'm finding it all fascinating. Couple quick comments....
>
>Here in Minnesota, at least up north here (where right now, it's -27
>below zero at my house) E-85 is substantially less expensive than any
>other gas at the pump...sometimes up to a buck less. And as I
>understand it, it's cheaper 'cause our tax dollars are going to
>subsidize it's production, etc..so we're really still paying plenty for
>it..but those who don't try to use it are paying for it and not getting
>any of it!
>
>And, at least as far as the 3 Corvair guys I know running it, they're
>losing about 2-3 MPG in a car that is generally getting 25-27 mpg, so
>that's not anywhere the 1/3 loss that's been mentioned, of course, not
>exactly scientific research!
>
>And I'm running 110LL avgas in my 1958 Edsel.
>
>Tim in Bovey (going out to see if my truck will start now)
>
>==
>You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Tim,
I'm going to make one quick comment re your post and then drop the
topic, Greg & I were way off topic & I think we've thrashed things
enough.
Re your comment on mileage. In the process of setting up a small
still to make fuel EtOH from feed mill wastes, I've had many my
discussions with my friends who are involved in developing ways to
sustainably produce ethanol (their '"target group " are small farmers
or waste-sugar utilizers who want to produce EtOH at home for
personal use). They have tested many models of cars on pure EtOH as
well as blends, and their results pretty much match those of your
Corvair friends.
There are many reasons for this, but the upshot is that an "Apples to
Apples" comparison of BTU content per volume of fuel doesn't tell the
whole story. Efficiency of combustion plays a big role.
With EtOH/Gas blends, you actually get a "synergistic" effect, where
the EtOH causes much more complete combustion of the gas, improving
the performance relative to what you would expect to get based on the
BTU content of a gallon of blend. With "pure" EOH, mileage is
improved dramatically if some water is left in the fuel (a still can
only get you to 95% EtOH, with 5% water left over anyway, and going
to 90%EtOH/10% water actually improves mileage!). Basically, you are
creating the same situation as water injection in a high-performance
engine.
These numbers come from my friends' extensive testing, on cars that
were carefully modified to get the best efficiency from engines
originally designed to run on gas, so they don't even tell the whole
story (off the shelf E85 vehicles from Detroit are
mediocre-performing because they were designed to work no matter what
the average joe driver puts in the tank) . They are also the source
of that intriguing comment regarding Swedish research into high-mpg
EtOH engine designs (they actually have an older model Volvo S70 that
they run on pure EtOH with no modification, at about 90% of the mpg
it got on gasoline, so the Swedes have clearly been working on this
for quite a while).
That's all I'm going to say on the matter, back to Piets!
Kip Gardner
--
North Canton, OH
Message 6
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Don & Group,
Yes, the smoke setup I have is still as per original idea and is about
as simple and reliable as you can get. I use a 2 quart
poly pump-up bug sprayer from the Wal Mart garden department, hacksaw
off the plastic handle, remove the spray wand and
discard and adapt 1/4" plastic airspeed tubing to the sprayer nozzle
with rubber hose and either tye-wraps and or hose clamps.
The 1/4" poly line is connected to a 1/4" copper, stainless, or aluminum
tube which connects to a fitting (mine is a Swaglok fitting)
that you weld into one of your aft exhaust pipes (they run hotter than
the fronts on 65 Continentals) about 1-2" down from the flange.
On the ID of the fitting that is welded to the exhaust pipe you drill
two No. 60 drill bit holes in your exhaust pipe wall and whala, you
have a smoke system. (I suppose you could drill one hole with the
same equivalent area but have not tried that)
Might want to put a vibration loop or two in your metal tubing from the
firewall to your exhaust stack to dampen the stresses and
strain on the tube so your metal doesn't fatigue.
The smoke oil I use is Texaco Canopus No. 13 which is basically a
mineral oil. They used to call it Corvus oil.
Every other year the Thunderbirds park at our NASA hangar when they are
in town and I salivate beyond measure when I go up there
and see beyond the cyclone fence about a dozen 55 gallon drums of the
smoke oil ready for the Thunderbirds to use in our airshow.
Mike C.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Taxing with a fixed tailwheel |
Sounds like you would want a steerable tailwheel with a cockpit controlled
locking pin to make it fixed when you want, like on a DC-3. More hassle than
it would be worth on a Piet of course.
On 1/25/07, Catdesigns <catdesigns@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks Shad, that's exactly the advice I was looking for. I will stick
> with my sterable tailwheel for now as I doubt I will land on grass very
> much. Do they even have grass runways in California? Good to have a great
> flight report as it's always something I have wondered about. Tell your Dad
> he did a great job.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
> Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: weather check in |
Sounds just like Ohio. Too cold to fly, but a good time to make a quick run out
to the airport to get a few things off of the plane that I've been wanting to
bring home and work on.
Spring can't be too far away!!
Don E.
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92836#92836
Message 9
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Mike,
Thanks for the info. I do remember your setup being pretty simple. There must
not be much concern about having those holes in the exhaust up that close
to the exhaust flange? A No. 60 hole is fairly small anyway. Sounds like it
might make a good project to have ready for spring!
Don E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92839#92839
Message 10
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Don,
I had done some preliminary testing on an Aeronca Champ I owned with a
partner before starting the Pietenpol
and I experimented (ground tests) with a 'wand' that I would insert up
into the exhaust stacks (a 1/4" stainless tube)
and clamp it at various distances down from the exhaust flange. I found
that I got better smoke up high in the stacks
where the combustion products are hottest. After seeing how good the
smoke was I decided against installing multiple
ports in my system which proved to be a smoke oil saver I believe.
The only issue I have with the system is a checklist-related one whereby
I sometimes neglect to unscrew or
depressurize my smoke oil container. The check valve or trigger valve
will dribble oil into the exhaust stack between
flights and upon start up I will have an engine that appears to have a
couple bad sets of rings for the first minute or
two of running time. (plus it can leak on your hangar floor and leave
oil spots less you have cardboard down or a drip pan)
Mike
Message 11
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| Subject: | Things with Props |
In a message dated 2/4/2007 9:00:55 AM Central Standard Time,
waltdak@verizon.net writes:
Larry,
The company that I work for has recently qualified to do the wind generator
work. We have about 4 guys who travel as needed for repairs. I've never been
in one, but the pictures thay bring back are amazing.
Start by checking out the ones in Texas on Chuck G.,s video.
walt evans
NX140DL
Walt,
The wind generators in my video are just south of the small town of
Beaumont Kansas. It's about 25 miles east of Wichita. There are 100 of the
se
massive generators out there...which is quite a site from the air. These th
ings
are about 400 feet from the ground to the top of the top blade. On a clear
day, you can see them on the flat horizon out here, from 40 or 50 miles awa
y.
Beoumont has a fly - in breakfast on the second saturday of the
month...land on the grass strip that is east of the little town, then taxi d
own the
back country road to the Beoumont Hotel / Resturant, to the 'Bent Prop Airpl
ane
Parking Area'. There's almost always a couple dozen airplanes that show up,
and the only bent prop I've ever seen, is the one on the sign. It's a great
way
to start the weekend.
There is at least three of these 'Wind Farms' out here in Kansas, and I
certainly support the effort. There are some folks that believe they detrac
t
from the scenery...as for me, I like anything that has a propellor on it !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
26=BA, calm winds, clear blue sky
Message 12
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Okay gang, I have gotten a number of issues sorted out with a few more remaining,
I expect to begin building at the beginning of March. I am looking for the
recommended software, download or method to set up and maintain my builders log.
What is the easiest format to follow with text pics and information required in
setting up the log. Does anyone have a sample format or copy of one that they
would be willing to share?
Please advise
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: weather check in |
Your weather sound nice here is mine.
64 =B0F / 18 =B0C ClearHumidity: 45% Dew Point: 43 =B0F / 6 =B0C Wind:
Calm Pressure: 30.26 in / 1025 hPa Visibility: 6.0 miles / 9.7
kilometers UV: 3 out of 16 Clouds: Clear - Flight Rule:VFR (KMHR)Wind
Speed: 0 mph / 0 km/h / 0.0 m/s Wind Dir: N/A Ceiling:UnlimitedIt's so
sad I don't have a plane to flyChris TracySacramento, CaWebsite at
http://www.Westcoastpiet.comDo not archive----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet list
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: weather check in
It's 1000 , and the temp. in sunny NJ has just gotten up to +6F and
sunny. and 3" of snow on the ground.
Sure a far cry from all the way up to Christmas, with days in the 50s,
60s and even in the 70s.
Anyone else want to check in with there local weather?
walt evans
NX140DL
do not archive
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Builders log |
I made my own from scratch, not knowing there is a place on the internet
that provides a place for your log for free.
http://www.mykitplane.com
Just register and start building your log. Good place to go to see how
others did things too. Mine goes into a database and I can that I can
print out and have the ABDAR sign off on it. Don't know about a print
feature but I think you could just print out each entry.
Glenn W. Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Builders log
Okay gang, I have gotten a number of issues sorted out with a few
more remaining, I expect to begin building at the beginning of March. I
am looking for the recommended software, download or method to set up
and maintain my builders log.
What is the easiest format to follow with text pics and information
required in setting up the log. Does anyone have a sample format or copy
of one that they would be willing to share?
Please advise
Thanks
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 15
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| Subject: | I'm a Pietenpol pilot |
Long day. Good trip. I made my first takeoff and landing in 41CC today
after Charlie had her up and everything checked out OK after we worked on
the wing struts and tail brace wires. Pretty good rigging work on my part,
if I may say so myself. And not a bad touch on the stick after more than 2
yrs. having not flown. Made a circuit, it was so beautiful to see the
ground melt away and the hangar go from being a metal building to being a
little piece on a Monopoly board. And the wind in my hair-! It was getting
late, my wife was back at her mother's wondering where I was, the dog had
been sitting in the car for about an hour because I didn't want her on the
ramp around spinning propellers, but I just had to make a circuit and
Charlie knew it was my turn. It was wonderful. It was cool, it was cloudy,
it was perfect. The airplane was responsive, limber, strong, but demanding.
She's a great ride. Oh, she's a great ride and that engine is running so
strong and smooth.
We got the wings re-rigged properly and the airplane flew so smooth and
nice, so responsive. I'm ready for some serious instruction before I make
the cross-country trek with her from Zapata to San Antonio, but even so-
this airplane talks to me real nice. I think anyone would enjoy flying in
this 1930's airplane. She's so simple, yet so complex. Stick and rudder,
Langewiesche, that's all she is, but she has a thousand tricks up her wood
and fabric sleeve and she showed me a few on landing rollout. If you can
fly this airplane, you can fly any airplane. You fly this one by the sound
of the engine, the wind on your face, the feel, the touch. Forget the
instruments.
Corky knows, Edwin knows. Now I know. What a great day today has been for
me. I have a few pictures and I'll put them up soon, but they can't tell
you the story. You have to go up in a Pietenpol to know the story.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy
Awards http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2
Message 16
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| Subject: | Oklahoma Fly-In, Saturday February 10th |
I am having a fly-in this weekend at O44 (Oscar44) south of Norman, OK.
Everyone is welcome...its a good 'ol grass strip where my plane is based.
We'll have food and a good time.
I sure wish some of you guys would come (Chuck G.?, Jim M.?, anybody else).
I'd love to see some more Pietenpols there.
More details here:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings? |
In my personal opinion, I dont believe it, but no personal experience with Hipec.
More real and less dramatic: I will not take the chance... I always rib stich
my fabric.
Flying is enjoying the event, not have unecesary things to be aware off...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
MICHAEL SILVIUS <M.Silvius@worldnet.att.net> wrote: Gus:
to my knowledge only the HIPEC product is designed to not require rib stiching.
http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/hipec.html
http://www.falconaravia.com/
http://members.shaw.ca/kfalconar/HIPEC/ErcoupeCovering.htm
michael
----- Original Message -----
From: gus notti
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric attachment for Pietenpol wings?
Hello all,
I need to know should the fabric have some type of physical attachment besides
just glue?
I'm a tube and fabric guy, but the wings on this Pietenpol are just glued.
I know the school of though on the 'Peeling' for the fabric. I'm thinking
I might rib stitch them or screw attach them ( what can I use for wood ribs
besides stitching)?
Do they need it?
Thanks
Gus
---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
---------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Builders log |
http://www.expercraft.com/signup/index.php?q=confirm&id=501a50a5
amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: Okay gang, I have gotten a number of issues sorted
out with a few more remaining, I expect to begin building at the beginning of
March. I am looking for the recommended software, download or method to set up
and maintain my builders log.
What is the easiest format to follow with text pics and information required
in setting up the log. Does anyone have a sample format or copy of one that they
would be willing to share?
Please advise
Thanks
John
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