Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:58 AM - How do they fly? (Roger Harris)
2. 08:26 AM - Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs (Oscar Zuniga)
3. 08:49 AM - Re: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
4. 09:00 AM - Re: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs (DJ Vegh)
5. 01:16 PM - Re: How do they fly? (walt evans)
6. 01:33 PM - Re: How do they fly? (walt evans)
7. 01:37 PM - Re: How do they fly? ()
8. 01:54 PM - Re: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
9. 03:22 PM - Re: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs (DJ Vegh)
10. 08:05 PM - Re: How do they fly? (Steve Ruse)
Message 1
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| Subject: | How do they fly? |
Hi there,
The Pietenpol Aircamper is the most fantastic airdraft in the world! I
want one!
Unfortunately I only have a Microlight (ultralight) licence and I weigh
115kg on a height of 1.90m ( 18 stones on 6 ft 3ins), so probably
wouldn't fit in one anyway.
However I have just downloaded a great Fligh Simulator add=on from the
great Bill Lyons. A great representation of the Aitrcxamper.
Thing is, if a cross the controls and side-slip, it doesn't slow dowmn!
Questions
- does sideslipping increase your rate of descent significantly?
- does the aircraft float on forever when landing?
- What's the stall speed at MTOW and with the average pilot and
half tanks?
- Is the ground-handling as difficult as Bill's model
represents? (i.e no steering on the ground unless you really give it
rice on the throttle, and ground-loops at the sl;ighteest opportunity!)
- Are there mods which help her on the ground? Brakes or
steerable tailwheels?
That's enough for now - anyone know of an example in Spain?
Cheers,
Roger Harris
Message 2
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| Subject: | Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs |
Chris wrote-
>It looks as though one bolt and three pull rivets
>are used to hold an aluminum end.
Chris, I believe that the rivets are there to hold the triangular, flat
aluminum fitting to the spar, not to transfer any loads from the strut end
to the strut. The through-bolt(s) do that. And I would definitely use DJ's
two-bolt design rather than a single bolt. I just can't visualize a single
bolt transferring all the load to that aluminum.
DJ: curious to know how you match-drilled the holes in the strut to the
holes in the 4130 end fitting since you obviously drilled the end fitting
first? Just measure hole centers and hope for the best?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs |
In a message dated 2/17/2007 11:28:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
DJ: curious to know how you match-drilled the holes in the strut to the
holes in the 4130 end fitting since you obviously drilled the end fitting
first? Just measure hole centers and hope for the best?
I was wondering the same thing, Oscar. It is too tight to squeeze in a hole
finder of any kind, I think.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs |
Oscar,
actually I drilled them all at once... sort of. I made a jig that holds the
airfoil shaped aluminnum square on the base of my drill press. Then I
inserted the 4130 bar into the strut (in the jig) then drilled one hole with
a 1/8" pilot.
Then I pulled out the 4130 and redrilled it with 1/4" drill and deburred the
edges. Then I drilled out the strut with 1/4" drill. Next I inserted the
the 4130 bar and dropped an NAS-4 bolt into it to hold it in place.
Re-did the previous steps for the second hole and ended up with perfectly
matching holes. The key is to do them one at a time, insert a bolt, then
redrill for the second. And make sure you make a jig to hold the streamline
tubing perfectly square to the drill bit.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs
Chris wrote-
>It looks as though one bolt and three pull rivets
>are used to hold an aluminum end.
Chris, I believe that the rivets are there to hold the triangular, flat
aluminum fitting to the spar, not to transfer any loads from the strut end
to the strut. The through-bolt(s) do that. And I would definitely use DJ's
two-bolt design rather than a single bolt. I just can't visualize a single
bolt transferring all the load to that aluminum.
DJ: curious to know how you match-drilled the holes in the strut to the
holes in the 4130 end fitting since you obviously drilled the end fitting
first? Just measure hole centers and hope for the best?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.
http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: How do they fly? |
my opinions below,in blue
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Harris
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How do they fly?
Hi there,
The Pietenpol Aircamper is the most fantastic airdraft in the world! I
want one!
Unfortunately I only have a Microlight (ultralight) licence and I
weigh 115kg on a height of 1.90m ( 18 stones on 6 ft 3ins), so probably
wouldn't fit in one anyway.
However I have just downloaded a great Fligh Simulator add=on from
the great Bill Lyons. A great representation of the Aitrcxamper.
Do you have a link for us to download the add-on?
thanks
Thing is, if a cross the controls and side-slip, it doesn't slow
dowmn!
Questions
- does sideslipping increase your rate of descent significantly?
Yes, I think I can drop in better than a Cessna 150 with 40 deg of
flaps
- does the aircraft float on forever when landing?
NO
- What's the stall speed at MTOW and with the average pilot
and half tanks?
My stall with just me, and half (of 24 gals) fuel was 37 IAS
- Is the ground-handling as difficult as Bill's model
represents? (i.e no steering on the ground unless you really give it
rice on the throttle, and ground-loops at the sl;ighteest opportunity!)
I have a steerable tail wheel that I made, and it handles very well on
the ground.
As far a ground looping, there is a lot of toedancing while landing
and during the rollout. If you take it for granted, you'll be in the
woods
- Are there mods which help her on the ground? Brakes or
steerable tailwheels?
I installed drum brakes from a gokart supplier
That's enough for now - anyone know of an example in Spain?
Cheers,
Roger Harris
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: How do they fly? |
correction,,,
The stall speed was 37 MPH, not knots.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How do they fly?
my opinions below,in blue
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Harris
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How do they fly?
Hi there,
The Pietenpol Aircamper is the most fantastic airdraft in the world!
I want one!
Unfortunately I only have a Microlight (ultralight) licence and I
weigh 115kg on a height of 1.90m ( 18 stones on 6 ft 3ins), so probably
wouldn't fit in one anyway.
However I have just downloaded a great Fligh Simulator add=on from
the great Bill Lyons. A great representation of the Aitrcxamper.
Do you have a link for us to download the add-on?
thanks
Thing is, if a cross the controls and side-slip, it doesn't slow
dowmn!
Questions
- does sideslipping increase your rate of descent significantly?
Yes, I think I can drop in better than a Cessna 150 with 40 deg of
flaps
- does the aircraft float on forever when landing?
NO
- What's the stall speed at MTOW and with the average pilot
and half tanks?
My stall with just me, and half (of 24 gals) fuel was 37 IAS
- Is the ground-handling as difficult as Bill's model
represents? (i.e no steering on the ground unless you really give it
rice on the throttle, and ground-loops at the sl;ighteest opportunity!)
I have a steerable tail wheel that I made, and it handles very well
on the ground.
As far a ground looping, there is a lot of toedancing while landing
and during the rollout. If you take it for granted, you'll be in the
woods
- Are there mods which help her on the ground? Brakes or
steerable tailwheels?
I installed drum brakes from a gokart supplier
That's enough for now - anyone know of an example in Spain?
Cheers,
Roger Harris
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: How do they fly? |
Very nice looking place to land Walt and a fabulous plane to look at as
well.You look like you were made for this aircraft.
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs |
DJ,
I think what threw us off was the fact that in your photo, there are no
holes in the streamlined strut.
Ron
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs |
ahh... makes sense. I used a length of scrap for the photos. I have
quite a bit left over. If anyone wants a sample of the Sky-Tec strut
material just let me know! I can cut off a piece and send fo rthe price
of shipping. I have both large and smaller sizes.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietsrneat@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rans Aluminum Wing Strut Designs
DJ,
I think what threw us off was the fact that in your photo, there
are no holes in the streamlined strut.
Ron
Message 10
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| Subject: | How do they fly? |
In the real world, if there is one thing a Pietenpol can do exceptionally,
it is slowing down. They are draggy airplanes. There is very, very little
float on landing unless you start your flair above cruise speed. Again,
lots of drag keeps your time to flair down. A lot of people land them with
some power to give more float time. It has much, much less float than any
other airplane I've flown. I'm pretty comfortable landing on a rough 1,000'
strip. Taking off fully loaded from a 1,000' strip on a warm day is a
different story.
Like someone else said, you can lose a lot of altitude very quickly in an
aggressive slip.
Ground handling isn't bad at all in my plane in my opinion. However, I have
a (narrowed) J3 Cub landing gear & a steerable tailwheel.it is actually very
easy to steer accurately on the ground at low speeds. The low landing speed
also makes landings fairly easy. I've got probably around 400 landings in
my plane, and I've never scared myself. I'm sure landing with the (better
looking) motorcycle wheels is more difficult, and more susceptible to side
load.
My plane is a GN-1, by the way.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Harris
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How do they fly?
Questions
- does sideslipping increase your rate of descent significantly?
- does the aircraft float on forever when landing?
- What's the stall speed at MTOW and with the average pilot and
half tanks?
- Is the ground-handling as difficult as Bill's model represents?
(i.e no steering on the ground unless you really give it rice on the
throttle, and ground-loops at the sl;ighteest opportunity!)
- Are there mods which help her on the ground? Brakes or steerable
tailwheels?
That's enough for now - anyone know of an example in Spain?
Cheers,
Roger Harris
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