---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/08/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:40 AM - weber on a model A (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 10:28 AM - Main Landing Gear Length (Catdesigns) 3. 10:51 AM - registration information (skellytownflyer) 4. 11:08 AM - landing gear height (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 5. 11:17 AM - Re: Main Landing Gear Length (HelsperSew@aol.com) 6. 11:32 AM - Re: registration information (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 7. 11:39 AM - Re: Main Landing Gear Length (Phillips, Jack) 8. 12:39 PM - Re: Main Landing Gear Length (Steve Eldredge) 9. 01:02 PM - Re: Main Landing Gear Length (HelsperSew@aol.com) 10. 02:07 PM - Re: Main Landing Gear Length (Peter W Johnson) 11. 02:35 PM - Re: Main Landing Gear Length (Catdesigns) 12. 03:44 PM - A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) (Aircraft Spruce) 13. 04:12 PM - Re: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) (Matt Reeves) 14. 04:24 PM - Re: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) (walt evans) 15. 06:25 PM - Re: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) (Scott Schreiber) 16. 07:33 PM - Main Landing Gear Length- baby bear's view (Oscar Zuniga) 17. 10:00 PM - Re: Main Landing Gear Length- baby bear's view (Catdesigns) 18. 10:10 PM - Axel location Clarifications (Catdesigns) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:19 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: weber on a model A Dan, The weber that Ford guys use on their A's is the weber. When I bought mine weber was having production shortages and I got the last one for a while, but I think they're fine now. You can find them through Snyders, they also sell a nice intake manifold that I think I think is made by the guy who I bought mine from. You've got to modify the intake manifold to get the carb low enough to proper fuel head, which isn't hard if you can weld aluminum, or you can do the cutting, find some thick walled aluminum tubing and then bring it to someone who can weld aluminum. I am trying a weber primarily because it will produce more power than a stock A carb. It is a better design, having two stages, a primary and a secondary which will deliver a more correct mix at various throttle settings. I also like that I have limitless jet options so I can fine tune at idle, cruise and climb AND I can get it just a bit lean on the ground so my mixture will not be so rich higher up. Lowell Frank has extensive experience with this carb and loved it. It is prone to icing just like the Ford, so that challenge doesn't go away. It comes with a choke which Lowell got rid of, but I am thinking of keeping because in my testing I really like how easy it makes it to start when it's cold. Hope that helps, feel free to contact me if you need more info. By the way, I have a beautiful stock carb rebuilt by Ken Perkins that is brand new if you want one. I'll sell it for what I paid Ken four years ago. Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:06 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length From: "Catdesigns" Hi All, I am working on installing the wood style landing gear. According to my calculations to get a deck angle of 13 degrees I need the bottom of the axel to be 22 inches below the fuselage, measured down from the front fitting perpendicular to the upper longeron with the upper longeron level. This will require lengthening the wood landing gear 6.75 inches. If I compare my axel location to the split axel gear, it is a 5-inch extension. The need for this appears to be mostly due to the height of my tail wheel being 12 inches, or 4.5-inches taller then the stock tail skid. Did anyone else lengthen the gear this much? Anyone see a problem in adding this much length? I should also add I widened the gear 6-inches to keep the same geometry in gear width. A search of the archives on this leads to some specific questions: Don Emch, you said you have a deck angle of 15 degrees and a tail wheel. Did you lengthen your gear and if so how much. Or is your high deck angle due only to the tall wheels. Jack Phillips, you mentioned having to add a step to get in with a 12 to 13 degree deck angle, did you lengthen your gear and if so how much? Mike Cuy, searching the archives you say your plane sits at 13 degrees and later say 11 to 12 degrees is where you set your deck angle. Which one is it and did you have to lengthen your gear legs to get it? Rick Holland, you mentioned that your lower longeron is 32-inches from the ground with a deck angle of 12 degrees. Where did you measure this from and did you lengthen your gear? Thanks Chris Tracy -------- Chris Tracy WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99477#99477 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration information From: "skellytownflyer" I talked with a fellow this morning by the name of Tim at the EAA headquarters and got some clarification on the registration.he said the Light sport registration thing right now is basically set up to allow the folks with the fat ultralights to get legal and that option goes away in December.but I would need to just register the Piet EX/AB and it can be flown under the Sport pilot criteria as long as it meets it.Hope this is clear-thanks for the advice.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99484#99484 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gear height From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Chris, I would have to go measure my deck angle with an angle finder to give you the right number but 12 degrees sticks in my mind. Widening the wood gear I think is a good idea and I widened mine about 4" as I recall. I actually believe that my gear legs are shorter than plans though because I wanted to be able to lift my leg high enough to get in without having to install a step. Your tail sounds like it sits quite high which makes sense that you need to add so much to length to maintain the deck angle. If you are non-electric then consider that doing that will raise your prop for hand propping comfort too. Here are some measurements I took of straight axle planes at Brodhead. With some trig you could calculate a rough deck angle. I can't give you the wire wheel diameters but I will post the following measurements I took at Brodhead on straight axle gear Pietenpols with Continental 65 engines. F= from bottom of longeron right next to front gear leg fitting to ground R= from bottom of longeron right next to rear gear leg fitting to ground C= from center of rear valve cover to ground Brian Kenny's Piet from Canada (plans tail w/ small wheel as I recall) F= 26.5" R= 20" C= 49.5" Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy (plans tail w/ skid) F= 30.5" R= 21 3/4" C= 53.5" My Piet (spring steel tail w/ 4" diameter wheel F= 28" R= 20.5" C= 51" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:28 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length Hi Chris, I have wrestled with this issue of deck angle also. I built my straight axle gear as close to the F&G Manual as humanly possible. You saw my pics I sent you of my skid/tailwheel setup. With the skid, I have a deck angle of 12 degrees, and with the wheel about 11 or 11-1/2 degrees. I have large diameter 21" wheels and still could not get this 13 degree deck angle. I am wondering whether the people that are claiming this have lengthened their gear, or more likely made an error in measuring. Why do you feel that you need this 13 degree deck angle? 6.75 inch extension seems like an awful lot. BHP obviously did not do this. If you notice the way I made my tailwheel, I was very cognizant of adding any height to the aft end of the fuselage, and tried to design it with that in mind, while still achieving the removable/interchangeable feature. Please explain your concerns. See attachments. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:00 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: registration information From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Raymond-- I flew my piet under the Sport Pilot regs this past summer for a month while I was out of medical. I see no reason why you can't register your Piet as a regular airplane with a standard N number and if you want to fly it under the sport rule it already meets the criteria. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:23 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length From: "Phillips, Jack" Hi Chris, I lengthened my struts, but not nearly that much. I don't remember the dimensions, but my wheels are 21" and the top of my tire is just about even with the bottom of the fuselage. I'm attaching a picture (sorry for the long download) of the plane in the hangar getting ready to be weighed. It is sitting with the longerons level, so you can get an idea of the axle placement. Mine has a 13 degree deck angle and it stalls in the 3 point position, which is what I wanted. I learned to fly in a J-3 Cub and the Cub is about the same deck angle, and stalls just as you get it to the 3-point position. That is why a Cub is so difficult to land perfectly every time - if you don't do it exactly right, it will either stall and drop in, or bounce. Makes it a good trainer, because it is hard to do it right, but hard to get hurt in. Anyway, that is the kind of characteristic I prefer in a taildragger. My old Cessna 140 and the RV-4 I currently own have a much shallower deck angle and if you flare too quickly you can easily land tailwheel first. Having flown mine for a couple of years now, and having flown other Pietenpols with a lower deck angle, I can say it doesn't matter much. A Piet stalls so quickly when you flare it (unless you start your flare at 60 mph or above) that it just doesn't make much difference. What a higher deck angle does do is make a step pretty much required equipment. I do like the higher propeller placement for propping. I've propped mine right after propping Mike Cuy's and I just find the higher nose easier to prop, but then I'm 6'2" tall. Your mileage may vary. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length Hi All, I am working on installing the wood style landing gear. According to my calculations to get a deck angle of 13 degrees I need the bottom of the axel to be 22 inches below the fuselage, measured down from the front fitting perpendicular to the upper longeron with the upper longeron level. This will require lengthening the wood landing gear 6.75 inches. If I compare my axel location to the split axel gear, it is a 5-inch extension. The need for this appears to be mostly due to the height of my tail wheel being 12 inches, or 4.5-inches taller then the stock tail skid. Did anyone else lengthen the gear this much? Anyone see a problem in adding this much length? I should also add I widened the gear 6-inches to keep the same geometry in gear width. A search of the archives on this leads to some specific questions: Don Emch, you said you have a deck angle of 15 degrees and a tail wheel. Did you lengthen your gear and if so how much. Or is your high deck angle due only to the tall wheels. Jack Phillips, you mentioned having to add a step to get in with a 12 to 13 degree deck angle, did you lengthen your gear and if so how much? Mike Cuy, searching the archives you say your plane sits at 13 degrees and later say 11 to 12 degrees is where you set your deck angle. Which one is it and did you have to lengthen your gear legs to get it? Rick Holland, you mentioned that your lower longeron is 32-inches from the ground with a deck angle of 12 degrees. Where did you measure this from and did you lengthen your gear? Thanks Chris Tracy -------- Chris Tracy WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99477#99477 _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:01 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length From: "Steve Eldredge" Hi Dan, Cool choice of colors. I like purple. I thought I'd warn you about the tail skid A-frame. As per plans it will bend and twist. I rebuilt mine twice. I used .049 walled 3/4 " tube and also put a frame member across the V, turning it into a capital 'A' shape. This has served well the last 250 hours. Good looking airplane! Steve E From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length Hi Chris, I have wrestled with this issue of deck angle also. I built my straight axle gear as close to the F&G Manual as humanly possible. You saw my pics I sent you of my skid/tailwheel setup. With the skid, I have a deck angle of 12 degrees, and with the wheel about 11 or 11-1/2 degrees. I have large diameter 21" wheels and still could not get this 13 degree deck angle. I am wondering whether the people that are claiming this have lengthened their gear, or more likely made an error in measuring. Why do you feel that you need this 13 degree deck angle? 6.75 inch extension seems like an awful lot. BHP obviously did not do this. If you notice the way I made my tailwheel, I was very cognizant of adding any height to the aft end of the fuselage, and tried to design it with that in mind, while still achieving the removable/interchangeable feature. Please explain your concerns. See attachments. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about w4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com" l ?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:43 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length Steve, I used the.049 tubing. You still think it needs the extra member? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:37 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length Dan, I agree with Steve, I replaced my plans tail skid/wheel with a spring steel type. No more bend or twist. Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Sent: Friday, 9 March 2007 7:38 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length Hi Dan, Cool choice of colors. I like purple. I thought I=92d warn you about the tail skid A-frame. As per plans it will bend and twist. I rebuilt mine twice. I used .049 walled 3/4 =93 tube and also put a frame member across the V, turning it into a capital =91A=92 shape. This has served well the last 250 hours. Good looking airplane! Steve E From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length Hi Chris, I have wrestled with this issue of deck angle also. I built my straight axle gear as close to the F&G Manual as humanly possible. You saw my pics I sent you of my skid/tailwheel setup. With the skid, I have a deck angle of 12 degrees, and with the wheel about 11 or 11-1/2 degrees. I have large diameter 21" wheels and still could not get this 13 degree deck angle. I am wondering whether the people that are claiming this have lengthened their gear, or more likely made an error in measuring. Why do you feel that you need this 13 degree deck angle? 6.75 inch extension seems like an awful lot. BHP obviously did not do this. If you notice the way I made my tailwheel, I was very cognizant of adding any height to the aft end of the fuselage, and tried to design it with that in mind, while still achieving the removable/interchangeable feature. Please explain your concerns. See attachments. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about w4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com" 37/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com. "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c om/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 7/03/2007 9:24 AM -- 7/03/2007 9:24 AM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length From: "Catdesigns" Thanks Guys. This is the information I was looking for. I felt adding 5 to 6 inches was a bit extreme. I chose 13 degrees is because this seems to be around the common angle people use. Based on the numbers Mike reported, Mike is at 13.5, Brian is just under 12 , Frank P. is just about 15 degrees. Knowing Mike to be closer to 12 degrees, I assume these estimates to be a little steeper then reality. We know Jack is at 13 and Greg and Dale are at 12.5. Dom Emch has the steepest at 15. He also reported Frank P. to be about the same as his. Chuck G. at 11 degrees said it was a bit harder to get a good full stall landing. This is why I went with 13 degrees. Well that and I like the look of a steep deck angle. I would have gone with 14 but my high tail made that impractical. My concern about the height is how tall will the propeller be. Anyone have any idea how far away the propeller is from the firewall on an A-56 Piet? Im tall and I dont mind adding a step. But most of all I dont want it to look stupid. Yes, I know looks shouldnt be more important then functionality but come on now we all want to look good. I also dont want to make it tippy by having tall gear legs. I have been playing around with my fuselage drawing and I can remove 3 inches (for a 2 inch extension) and still get 12.5 degrees using my tail wheel (it turns out Im a bit over the 13 degrees stated). By the time the wheels squish a little this should be 12 degrees. Its obvious that somehow you guys have shorter tail wheels then I do. Im seriously contemplating switching over to a 4-inch Homebuilders Special but I dont know the height or weight of this setup. Mike, do you have any ideas on the height of your lower longeron at the back of the fuselage? Im sure it will weigh more then my 6 pound tail wheel I have now. This is all very funny in a way. Before I ever started cutting wood for the gear I had this all worked out. I knew exactly what I was going to do. But, AFTER I got all 4 gear legs cut it just didnt look right. Oh well, at least I am shortening and not having to stretch them and in my experience wood is hard to stretch. Thanks again Chris -------- Chris Tracy WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99532#99532 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:44 PM PST US From: "Aircraft Spruce" Subject: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer Service department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise that the shipping on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to ask if we could cut it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply, they cancelled the backorder and notified the customer by email. Unfortunately, they did not identify the item that was on backorder, which led our customer to believe that other items (hardware) were backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended our apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our expense. We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol builders and if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order, the Aircraft Spruce Customer Service department is ready to help. Contact us at 877-477-7823 or customerservice@aircraftspruce.com. Aircraft Spruce Customer Service Dept. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:36 PM PST US From: Matt Reeves Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) I think it's awesome that builders' lists and idea forums get this type of customer service and follow up. Aircraft Spruce is truly on the "cutting edge" of listening to their customers and actually doing something about it. In this world of instant messaging, blogs, and communications, it's nice to have a company that really does care and realizes the importance of customer needs. Matt Rochester, NY Aircraft Spruce wrote: A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer Service department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise that the shipping on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to ask if we could cut it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply, they cancelled the backorder and notified the customer by email. Unfortunately, they did not identify the item that was on backorder, which led our customer to believe that other items (hardware) were backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended our apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our expense. We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol builders and if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order, the Aircraft Spruce Customer Service department is ready to help. Contact us at 877-477-7823 or customerservice@aircraftspruce.com. Aircraft Spruce Customer Service Dept. --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:48 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) >From time to time people bash Aircraft Spruce. I just wanted to jump in and say that I built my Pietenpol over a 4 year period in late 1990's. I bought most/all of my "stuff" from AS&S. Some I got from Dillsburg. The only problem I ever had from Aircraft was an order of control cable. I ordered, say, 75 ft, for my wing. When it came, it was many pieces of cable. When I called, I said I didn't want floor sweepings. They were very Sorry for the mistake and got right on it. I got my correct cable in a few days. At no charge. They made good on the order. If I were to start another project tomorrow, I would certainly go back to AS&S. AS&S is good!! walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Aircraft Spruce To: Pietenpol-List@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer Service department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise that the shipping on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to ask if we could cut it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply, they cancelled the backorder and notified the customer by email. Unfortunately, they did not identify the item that was on backorder, which led our customer to believe that other items (hardware) were backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended our apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our expense. We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol builders and if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order, the Aircraft Spruce Customer Service department is ready to help. Contact us at 877-477-7823 or customerservice@aircraftspruce.com. Aircraft Spruce Customer Service Dept. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:37 PM PST US From: "Scott Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) Since I have no wish to turn this into a flame war and will not do so I will respond to this once and not another word will follow. This was not the first straw with them but the last, hence the post "Does it again". And I am sure you will find that my comment was not the first about problems at their company. My first order with them was for several thousand dollars and included the spruce kit, plywood and a number of building materials. The description of a spruce kit as written and given by a sales person it contained "All of the spruce necessary to build the plane." At the same time I placed an order for the seperate cap strips. The shipment was a comedy of errors where an completly different pricing and shipping method was given to me weeks after the initial order was placed. I was prepared to be patient but when you get a different story each time you are communicated with, which prompts more questions which lead to more diverse answers it gets irritating. When the shipment arrived I did an inventory and found that much more spruce was needed, and that several pieces were miscut. Further they insisted on charging me shipping for the cap strip kit they forgot until allot of discussion with a manager fixed the issue. I commented on this and got a few replies and I quote; "Their initials aren't A.S.S. for nothing." I gave up on even trying to deal with the issue of the complete spruce kit not being so complete. A few months go by and I needed a few things (hinge bolts etc.) that I already had the part numbers for and decide to give it another try. I placed and order and got part of it. Their rep is correct that they did not reach me by phone but they did reach me by email and by at least three people who all had a different idea of what the situation was, one wanted to reship everything. The final straw was when, as you can read in my cut and paste of their email, they cancelled the backorder due to it's low value not due to the cost of shipping, size of the cut etc. Further they just emailed me asking if they could ship a 2ft piece and a 4ft piece that they had, not if they could cut the 6ft piece for shipping. The rep's post on the forum implied that they had a 6ft piece to cut and not that they had found some end pieces which won't work as I need two 3ft pieces. When a company does well, like Ken's awesome cowls that I bought one of, Mr Pietenpol's family with their great plans service I have no problem saying great job. When a company seems to screw up as a practice, I am going to say something. Of course it is the rep's job to jump in and give their side, and try to make it sound so reasonable and simple. So take it all with a grain of salt but if you just do a simple comparison of the stated reason for the backorder cancellation in the email and in the rep's post you'll see that the story changed. Too much fuss over a few feet of aluminum, but again it was more than that one thing. We now leave days of our Piets and return you to your regularly scheduled building. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Reeves To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce) I think it's awesome that builders' lists and idea forums get this type of customer service and follow up. Aircraft Spruce is truly on the "cutting edge" of listening to their customers and actually doing something about it. In this world of instant messaging, blogs, and communications, it's nice to have a company that really does care and realizes the importance of customer needs. Matt Rochester, NY Aircraft Spruce wrote: A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer Service department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise that the shipping on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to ask if we could cut it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply, they cancelled the backorder and notified the customer by email. Unfortunately, they did not identify the item that was on backorder, which led our customer to believe that other items (hardware) were backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended our apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our expense. We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol builders and if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order, the Aircraft Spruce Customer Service department is ready to help. Contact us at 877-477-7823 or customerservice@aircraftspruce.com. Aircraft Spruce Customer Service ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:14 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length- baby bear's view Chris wrote- >Mike is at 13.5, Brian is just under 12 , Frank P. is just about 15 >degrees. >Knowing Mike to be closer to 12 degrees, I assume these estimates to be >a little steeper then reality. We know Jack is at 13 and Greg and Dale are >at 12.5. Dom Emch has the steepest at 15. He also reported Frank P. >to be about the same as his. Chuck G. at 11 degrees said it was a bit >harder >to get a good full stall landing. Mama Bear's bed is too soft, Papa Bear's bed is too hard, but Baby Bear's bed (NX41CC, at 12.2 degrees deck angle sitting in the hangar, top longeron) is just right! This airplane lands just about perfectly and I haven't hit the tailwheel first yet. Sitting in the hangar in normal trim, the dimension from the bottom of the aftmost edge of the tailpost to the hangar floor is 12-1/2". What is funny is that I want to write in BIG, BOLD LETTERS the same thing I heard so many times as long as I've been a homebuilder but never an experimental airplane flyer... "JUST FINISH THE AIRPLANE AND FLY IT-! YOU WILL NEVER STOP SMILING!". Gone are the endless discussions about this and that, nuts and bolts, possible improvements. 41CC is pretty close to a real authentic "Improved Plans Built" Air Camper and it flies beautifully. It isn't perfect, isn't the right airplane for everyone, isn't an instrument platform, will tax you on a long cross-country, but if you know you're a Pietenpol person already, hurry up and finish your airplane because it will scratch your itch and tickle your fancy just right. Finish it and fly it, then you can improve and tweak it later! Winter time is for modifying and reworking, but we're now getting into springtime and that means flying so just put the glue on the wood or it will never start curing. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:44 PM PST US From: "Catdesigns" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length- baby bear's view Oscar, Your absolutely right. I tell my self to stop trying to be so perfect but I often refer to my self as the "Imperfect Perfectionist". I just have to have it right or I don't like it and rarely do I like anything I do because I know I could do it better if I did it again. The new gear legs will be the third set I will make. I've gotten quite good at it, if I do say so my self. The first set were out of pine (2x4's) and the second are spruce but to long. The last will be spruce. I will move on accepting that they may not be perfect but I can live with that. Actually, I truly enjoy the planning, the thinking, and the endless sketches of airplane parts (usually at work during meetings). Everywhere in my cube are pictures of plane parts, notes on how to do this and how to do that, old NACA papers and old EAA articles. Do you have any idea how excited I was to find a copy of ANC 18 and 19? That was a good day.I think I enjoy this as much as I enjoy thinking about flying it when its done. By the way, if I saved all this building for the winter, I don't how I could get all this work in the one month of winter here in California. Today's high 60's Saturday mid 70's. Sunday maybe 80. Thanks for the dimensions and the kick in the butt to get er' done. I waste most of my time thinking way to much. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length- baby bear's view > > > Chris wrote- > >>Mike is at 13.5, Brian is just under 12 , Frank P. is just about 15 >>degrees. >>Knowing Mike to be closer to 12 degrees, I assume these estimates to be >>a little steeper then reality. We know Jack is at 13 and Greg and Dale >>are >>at 12.5. Dom Emch has the steepest at 15. He also reported Frank P. >>to be about the same as his. Chuck G. at 11 degrees said it was a bit >>harder >>to get a good full stall landing. > > Mama Bear's bed is too soft, Papa Bear's bed is too hard, but Baby Bear's > bed (NX41CC, at 12.2 degrees deck angle sitting in the hangar, top > longeron) is just right! This airplane lands just about perfectly and I > haven't hit the tailwheel first yet. Sitting in the hangar in normal > trim, the dimension from the bottom of the aftmost edge of the tailpost to > the hangar floor is 12-1/2". > > What is funny is that I want to write in BIG, BOLD LETTERS the same thing > I heard so many times as long as I've been a homebuilder but never an > experimental airplane flyer... "JUST FINISH THE AIRPLANE AND FLY IT-! YOU > WILL NEVER STOP SMILING!". Gone are the endless discussions about this > and that, nuts and bolts, possible improvements. 41CC is pretty close to > a real authentic "Improved Plans Built" Air Camper and it flies > beautifully. It isn't perfect, isn't the right airplane for everyone, > isn't an instrument platform, will tax you on a long cross-country, but if > you know you're a Pietenpol person already, hurry up and finish your > airplane because it will scratch your itch and tickle your fancy just > right. Finish it and fly it, then you can improve and tweak it later! > Winter time is for modifying and reworking, but we're now getting into > springtime and that means flying so just put the glue on the wood or it > will never start curing. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more..then map the best > route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:06 PM PST US From: "Catdesigns" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axel location Clarifications Hi, it's me again. Just a few last questions. After searching the archives there are some things that need to be clarified about axel placement. Greg Cardinal's and Dale Johnson's axel location sems to float around in the archives. I've seen pictures of the plane and I know the axel is in a fixed position. In the archives: Chris Bobbka said 21-inches aft of the firewall in his landing gear analysis. Then Chris and Dale reported it as a 7 inch sweep (which would put it at 19") Greg later said 20-inches. Then Greg says 19-inches Question: Greg or Dale, what is the true location of your axel? Dick Navratil: Is you axel location at 19" aft of the fire wall on a short fuselage? How about the location on your new piet? Lastly, anyone have the weight and balance spreadsheet Jon Dilatush offered to send out concerning the Weight an Balance of his Mountain Piet? Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.