---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/19/07: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:07 AM - tail brace wires (skellytownflyer) 2. 06:23 AM - Re: tail brace wires (Gene Rambo) 3. 07:10 AM - Re: tail brace wires () 4. 07:57 AM - Re: tail brace wires (Jack T. Textor) 5. 08:10 AM - you guys are confusing the issue (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 6. 08:51 AM - Re: tail brace wires () 7. 08:59 AM - spruce wood (Arden Adamson) 8. 08:59 AM - Re: purchasing spruce (Arden Adamson) 9. 09:16 AM - Re: spruce wood (Dick Navratil) 10. 09:52 AM - Re: tail brace wires (Bill Church) 11. 10:15 AM - steam vent (Douwe Blumberg) 12. 10:20 AM - Re: steam vent (HelsperSew@aol.com) 13. 10:56 AM - Re: tail brace wires (shad bell) 14. 11:05 AM - Re: spruce wood (Jack T. Textor) 15. 12:14 PM - Re: tail brace wires (DJ Vegh) 16. 12:39 PM - Re: tail brace wires () 17. 12:57 PM - Re: tail brace wires (skellytownflyer) 18. 01:39 PM - Re: spruce wood (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 19. 01:59 PM - Re: Re: tail brace wires () 20. 02:15 PM - Re: tail brace wires (Bill Church) 21. 02:26 PM - Re: steam vent (walt evans) 22. 03:38 PM - Re: tail brace wires (Graham Hansen) 23. 03:56 PM - Re: tail brace wires () 24. 04:03 PM - Scimitar Propeller (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 25. 04:40 PM - Re: Scimitar Propeller (Pietsrneat@aol.com) 26. 05:54 PM - Reasons for building (Tom Stinemetze) 27. 07:58 PM - Re: Scimitar Propeller (Isablcorky@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires From: "skellytownflyer" I am in the process of rigging the tail surfaces to see what I need before covering and have a set of streamlined tailbrace wires to install.they are Mcwhyte if it makes any difference.I have looked for reference in A/S catalog but not found the minimum thread make-up length-meaning how far into the end it needs to be.does it need to be in as far as the small hole drilled through the rod end? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101593#101593 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:50 AM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires Absolutely. The small hole is called the "witness" hole, and the threads MUST cover the hole. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: skellytownflyer To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires > I am in the process of rigging the tail surfaces to see what I need before covering and have a set of streamlined tailbrace wires to install.they are Mcwhyte if it makes any difference.I have looked for reference in A/S catalog but not found the minimum thread make-up length-meaning how far into the end it needs to be.does it need to be in as far as the small hole drilled through the rod end? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101593#101593 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires From: Thanks Gene.I always wondered what they called that hole.I have them on some of my turnbuckles as well. Do not archive. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: March 19, 2007 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires Absolutely. The small hole is called the "witness" hole, and the threads MUST cover the hole. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: skellytownflyer To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires I am in the process of rigging the tail surfaces to see what I need before covering and have a set of streamlined tailbrace wires to install.they are Mcwhyte if it makes any difference.I have looked for reference in A/S catalog but not found the minimum thread make-up length-meaning how far into the end it needs to be.does it need to be in as far as the small hole drilled through the rod end? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101593#101593 http://www.mat p ; available via title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires From: "Jack T. Textor" Maybe I'm not understanding things here....Are we talking about the one hole in the middle of the turnbuckle? I thought that was for the safety wire. EAA says "To ensure that a turnbuckle is capable of developing its maximum strength, no more than three threads should extend beyond either end of the barrel after it has been adjusted to the correct cable tension for the system. Then, and only then, will it be ready for safety wiring." Jack Textor ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: you guys are confusing the issue From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Hey guys-- if you read the initial question that Gene answered it is in regard to STREAMLINED brace cables and has nothing to do with turnbuckles. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:34 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires From: Yes it is but there are really small holes on some old turnbuckles that are located on either side where the center piece screws into (the two outside pieces) and these are for safety to make sure you have the turnbuckle turned in enough. I have them on all my elevator cables and rudder cables. I have the newer type on my ailerons. All of them are safety wired of course. The small hole is strictly there to make sure you have threaded it in far enough. They are also used in the tail section for the cables or rods. I have attached a picture of the rod connections. In the second picture you can see the small holes. You can't see it in the first picture because it's on the other side. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the elevator connections just behind the rear seat. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T. Textor Sent: March 19, 2007 10:49 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires Maybe I'm not understanding things here....Are we talking about the one hole in the middle of the turnbuckle? I thought that was for the safety wire. EAA says "To ensure that a turnbuckle is capable of developing its maximum strength, no more than three threads should extend beyond either end of the barrel after it has been adjusted to the correct cable tension for the system. Then, and only then, will it be ready for safety wiring." Jack Textor ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:06 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce wood From: "Arden Adamson" Gentlemen, Bill from East Texas asked about wood. He probably is too far to drive it but, for those of you who are closer, McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI (2hours from me) recently got in a shipment of 4000 board feet of rough sawn sitka spruce. They are all 18-20 lengths, are mostly 7/8 in but a few 1 =BC inch thick, and 6-10 inches wide. You have to buy the entire board so I bought two boards of spar quality. In my humble opinion the boards are excellent quality and they let you pick through them. My cost was $8.50 a board foot so I purchased a 20 foot 1 x 6 for $4.25 per running foot. They occasionally order spruce because, with the lakes around Madison and Wisconsin, they cater to iceboat builders. McCormick Lumber 608-244-4741 3156 Milwaukee St. Madison Yard hours Mon-Friday 7:30-4:30 Saturdays 8:00-11:30 Just thought you guys would like to know about this source of spruce. Arden Adamson Waupaca, WI ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: purchasing spruce From: "Arden Adamson" Regarding sitka spruce, McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI just received a shipment of 4000 board feet of straight grain spruce. I bought two boards (18 & 20 ft. long) recently for $8.50 a board foot for my Piet. In my humble opinion there were spar quality planks in the pile and you can pick through them. Just thought you'd like to know. McCormick Lumber 608-244-4741 3156 Milwaukee St. Madison Yard hours Mon-Friday 7:30-4:30 Saturdays 8:00-11:30 Arden Adamson Waupaca, WI ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:32 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce wood I agree, for sitka, McCormack's is the best. Decent people who don't mind if you lay out their entire stock looking for the perfect board. If anyone needing spruce is going to Brodhed, it's 50 miles from there to Madison. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arden Adamson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce wood Gentlemen, Bill from East Texas asked about wood. He probably is too far to drive it but, for those of you who are closer, McCormick Lumber in Madison, WI (2hours from me) recently got in a shipment of 4000 board feet of rough sawn sitka spruce. They are all 18-20 lengths, are mostly 7/8 in but a few 1 =BC inch thick, and 6-10 inches wide. You have to buy the entire board so I bought two boards of spar quality. In my humble opinion the boards are excellent quality and they let you pick through them. My cost was $8.50 a board foot so I purchased a 20 foot 1 x 6 for $4.25 per running foot. They occasionally order spruce because, with the lakes around Madison and Wisconsin, they cater to iceboat builders. McCormick Lumber 608-244-4741 3156 Milwaukee St. Madison Yard hours Mon-Friday 7:30-4:30 Saturdays 8:00-11:30 Just thought you guys would like to know about this source of spruce. Arden Adamson Waupaca, WI ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires From: "Bill Church" Just an observation: I don't know if the lower stabilizer fittings shown in Harvey's picture are as per the GN-1 drawings, but, from an engineering standpoint, they do not appear to be as well thought out as the original Pietenpol fittings. I've attached a small clip from the 1933 drawings that shows two bolts (rivets, actually) fastening the bracket to the stabilizer. As can be seen in Harvey's picture, using only one fastener, at a distance from the bend in the bracket, doesn't provide sufficient holding power to resist the eccentric loading imposed by the cable. The result is that the bracket lifts from the stab - possibly crushing some wood fibers outboard of the fastener. Bill C ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:42 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: steam vent Don, My steam vent hole is about 3/4". I'd say this or 1/2 is fine, you're just venting steam. Regarding the tank, I feel you should hold it down with something other than just the fabric. I have seen a guy use nylon straps as suggested, and it worked for him. Douwe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:15 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steam vent Regarding the nylon straps for tank hold downs. I have stainless straps on mine now, but I am going to change them to nylon. The SS is too thick and bulky and will show under the fabric. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:56 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires YES! that hole is called an "Inspection Hole" if you can stick a piece of wire etc. compleatly through, or see light through it you DON"T have it threaded in enough. By the way, is this a Pietenpol your building? If so just currious why the MacWhite tie rods? Cables are much much cheaper. I have to buy some tie rods for my bipe and they are EXTREAMLY expensive. By the way one word of CAUTION: Keep an very close eye on the lower wires Especialy if they are streamlined. Stones will knick the front edge if the tie rod and can cause sudden failure due to the Stress Riser from the knick. I think this is why Piper or someone issued a service bullitin or an A.D. for tail tie rods. Round would probably be a better chioce over the streamlined tie rods. I have a few places you can check if interested. Shad skellytownflyer wrote: I am in the process of rigging the tail surfaces to see what I need before covering and have a set of streamlined tailbrace wires to install.they are Mcwhyte if it makes any difference.I have looked for reference in A/S catalog but not found the minimum thread make-up length-meaning how far into the end it needs to be.does it need to be in as far as the small hole drilled through the rod end? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101593#101593 --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:17 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spruce wood From: "Jack T. Textor" I too have been very happy with McCormick's, but keep in mind it is tough to check the quality of rough sawn wood. Last year I purchased a piece 18' long for my longerons...which turned out to be bad wood. Grain was straight, it sure looked ok, but after planning and ripping it warped so bad I will be lucky to use for anything over a foot long. Just a $200.00 mistake and no fault of McCormick's. Jack Textor ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:52 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires he's using streamline wires because that's what came with it when I sold the project to him. I got them for free years ago. They are only use on top. Lower wires are 1/8" cables. DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires YES! that hole is called an "Inspection Hole" if you can stick a piece of wire etc. compleatly through, or see light through it you DON"T have it threaded in enough. By the way, is this a Pietenpol your building? If so just currious why the MacWhite tie rods? Cables are much much cheaper. I have to buy some tie rods for my bipe and they are EXTREAMLY expensive. By the way one word of CAUTION: Keep an very close eye on the lower wires Especialy if they are streamlined. Stones will knick the front edge if the tie rod and can cause sudden failure due to the Stress Riser from the knick. I think this is why Piper or someone issued a service bullitin or an A.D. for tail tie rods. Round would probably be a better chioce over the streamlined tie rods. I have a few places you can check if interested. Shad skellytownflyer wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:48 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires From: I have included a page from the GN-1 drawings that I received with the aircraft and this is the way it was built from the drawing. If Grega engineered it wrong then I shall check with my AME to see what he would do. If another bolt is needed then I shall indeed install it as per your suggestion. From what I see in my drawings, it would appear that the top and bottom brackets are connected with the same bolt and should work together opposing one another so as no to fail under load conditions. In the bracket on the vertical stab, the AME did suggest putting another bolt in as you can see but never said anything about the brackets at the horizontal stab. I have not noticed any wood crushing as yet but it will certainly be one of many places I shall closely inspect in the spring when I get down to her again. Thanks for your observations, I shall certainly look into this. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: March 19, 2007 12:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires Just an observation: I don't know if the lower stabilizer fittings shown in Harvey's picture are as per the GN-1 drawings, but, from an engineering standpoint, they do not appear to be as well thought out as the original Pietenpol fittings. I've attached a small clip from the 1933 drawings that shows two bolts (rivets, actually) fastening the bracket to the stabilizer. As can be seen in Harvey's picture, using only one fastener, at a distance from the bend in the bracket, doesn't provide sufficient holding power to resist the eccentric loading imposed by the cable. The result is that the bracket lifts from the stab - possibly crushing some wood fibers outboard of the fastener. Bill C ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail brace wires From: "skellytownflyer" Got the information I needed again! it's the witness hole-now I remember the terminology,and yes that makes perfect sense and I remember knowing it at one time.thanks.These are as DJ said flying wires-not turnbuckles.thanks guys.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101689#101689 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:57 PM PST US From: Pietsrneat@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce wood Just a little tip when looking for wood: Bring a sanding block with you to smooth the ends of the boards to get a better idea of grain lines per inch and slope. Sometimes it's very hard to tell otherwise. Ron ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:13 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail brace wires From: I was the one who mentioned turnbuckles because I have them with the witness holes in them,just to say there are other places you may see these things,not to cause confusion. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytownflyer Sent: March 19, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail brace wires Got the information I needed again! it's the witness hole-now I remember the terminology,and yes that makes perfect sense and I remember knowing it at one time.thanks.These are as DJ said flying wires-not turnbuckles.thanks guys.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101689#101689 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:58 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires From: "Bill Church" Harvey, Just to be clear, your fittings are probably fine as they are. I have never seen a set of Grega drawings. But, since that's how Mr. Grega drew them, I would assume that's how most people would build them, if working from those plans - and there are plenty of GN-1s flying around. I had never noticed the difference before, and it just seemed odd to me that the fittings were pulling away from the stabilizer in your photo. I would imagine that must be a pretty common phenomenon among GN-1s. And it is also what I would expect the fitting to do, based on the way it is designed, given the direction of the applied force (through the cable), the hole location, and the various lever arms and resulting applied moments. Although I am an engineer, I do not profess to have any aircraft design abilities - I based my comments solely on my sense of "that don't look quite right", as opposed to any scientific analysis. Strength-wise, in order for the fastening to fail, you would have to either shear off the bolt passing through your stab, or the bolt would have to rip through the spar of the stab (both unlikely). Having said that, it probably wouldn't hurt to have your AME give it a look, since he did recommend adding a second fastener at the upper connection - and that wasn't shown in the Grega drawings either. Bill C ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:43 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steam vent Don, Again, with advise from my mentor, I used simple steel binding straps like are used to bind something to a pallet. Tough stuff, and it is "blued" already, so it won't rust. Just shaped it and bent it to make simple tightening devises. With felt stripping underneath. Then got a piece of alum sheet from Home Depot and cut to fit on top for a smooth surface walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Lane To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: steam vent Hi I am ready to bore and tap the hole for the vent in my aluminum Thomas cylinder head for the Ford A. What is the normal diameter used? I don't want it to be bigger than necessary. Also, I can't figure out any practical hold down system for the fuel tank in the center section that wouldn't cause protrusions under the fabric on top of the wing. Is it OK to just cover it with polyfiber and consider it done? Don Minnesott Beach NC ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:59 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires Harvey, Bill Church is correct when he says the bend in the fitting is in the wrong place. Good engineering practice would have placed the bend as close to the bolt head (or nut) as possible. Also, the flat of the bolt head could be aligned so that it is 90 degrees to the edge of the fitting. A small detail, to be sure--but airplanes are all about details. (Speaking of details, it seems that some check/locking nuts are missing on some of your tie rod ends!) The existing bend location provides a tendency for the fitting to straighten under load, which in turn affects the brace wire/tie rod tension adjustment. And, as Bill pointed out, having the bend too far from the bolt could cause the fitting to press into the spar at the outboard end. Possibly the existing fittings could be replaced by ones with the bend closer to the bolt. I wouldn't recommend adding an extra bolt because the single bolt allows the horizontal stab. fittings to line up with the brace wires. A single AN3 bolt is plenty strong for this application, anyway. I used a single bolt on each of my Pietenpol stab. fittings for this reason--and the bends are as close to the bolt head as I could get them. The brace wires are 3/32" stainless steel cable and the setup has been completely satisfactory since 1970 when I first flew it.. Despite this design deficiency, the setup you have will likely never cause you any trouble if you keep an eye on it. A plus is that it is easily checked during your pre-fight inspection. Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:30 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires From: Good to hear from you Graham. The brackets are the ones specified in the Grega drawings and the bolt holes are what they call for, right or wrong. I will certainly keep an eye on these as you said. There is a lock nut at either end of each rod but not at both ends of each. My AME said that as long as there is one at either end of each rod that it should be sufficient. Again, I will be checking on these on a regular basis to make sure they don't move. As you said, all part of the walk around. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Sent: March 19, 2007 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires Harvey, Bill Church is correct when he says the bend in the fitting is in the wrong place. Good engineering practice would have placed the bend as close to the bolt head (or nut) as possible. Also, the flat of the bolt head could be aligned so that it is 90 degrees to the edge of the fitting. A small detail, to be sure--but airplanes are all about details. (Speaking of details, it seems that some check/locking nuts are missing on some of your tie rod ends!) The existing bend location provides a tendency for the fitting to straighten under load, which in turn affects the brace wire/tie rod tension adjustment. And, as Bill pointed out, having the bend too far from the bolt could cause the fitting to press into the spar at the outboard end. Possibly the existing fittings could be replaced by ones with the bend closer to the bolt. I wouldn't recommend adding an extra bolt because the single bolt allows the horizontal stab. fittings to line up with the brace wires. A single AN3 bolt is plenty strong for this application, anyway. I used a single bolt on each of my Pietenpol stab. fittings for this reason--and the bends are as close to the bolt head as I could get them. The brace wires are 3/32" stainless steel cable and the setup has been completely satisfactory since 1970 when I first flew it.. Despite this design deficiency, the setup you have will likely never cause you any trouble if you keep an eye on it. A plus is that it is easily checked during your pre-fight inspection. Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:40 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Propeller Members of the list: After seeing photos and studying material given of this wonderful propeller, is there a collection of interested members to recreate this propeller? Is it advantageous to have this duplicated in numbers to keep costs down? Any idea where one can get this propeller for duplication?....I would love to have this designed propeller on my finished Pietenpol....Ideas? Ken H. Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:51 PM PST US From: Pietsrneat@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Propeller Ken, Here is a prop that I love, made by Jay Anderson of CLOUDCARS. I was going to buy one, but Chuck Gantzer has be convinced I can carve one myself. Chuck mentioned to me that this prop probably isn't a true scimitar, but I love the way it looks nonetheless. How long it will take me to carve it is anyone's guess, but I'm gonna give it a crack. If it turns out decent, I would be glad to loan it out for duplication. Ron do not archive ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:18 PM PST US From: "Tom Stinemetze" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Reasons for building I have been looking forward for quite a while to having my grandson visit on a day when the weather was good for building. That happened this last Saturday with my almost 4-year old grandson and his 2.5 year old sister going with Gramps out to the shop. I had just finished boxing up most of the lower fuselage and could take the glue clamps off the pilot's seat frame. I turned the fuse right side up and set Jaedon up on the work table with the intent of laying a temporary board across the seat frame and letting him be the first to sit in "the airplane". He immediately picked up a short board (about 6" long) and laid it sideways across the tail post for the "back wing." I said; "Jaedon, don't you want to sit in the airplane?" He said; " No Gramps! Not enough glue." Hope he doesn't know more about this than Gramps does! Tom Stinemetze The Airplane Nut ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:54 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Propeller Ken, A few years ago, '58 or'59, I attended a flyin in Waco where I met Ray Hegy. He had a mini biplane named after a Humming bird in Spanish. As I remember, and that's not too good lately, this plane had a true scimtar propeller. I ordered my prop for 41CC from Hegy but Ray has long been gone and his grandson Jim Corder made me a beautiful semi-scimitar. He also made another for 311CC which I sold with the project. Jim has moved from Marfa, Texas to Olathe, Colorado. His phone is 970 323 6341. He just might have some of his grandpas patterns for a full scimitar. Good luck Corky ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. 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