---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/27/07: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:26 AM - Re: Corvair List (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 2. 06:01 AM - Re: Pietenpol used in TV eposode () 3. 09:17 AM - Aluminum Wing? (GeneWeber) 4. 10:23 AM - Re: Aluminum Wing? (baileys) 5. 10:36 AM - Re: Aluminum Wing? () 6. 10:51 AM - Re: Aluminum Wing? (DJ Vegh) 7. 11:04 AM - Re: Aluminum Wing? () 8. 01:40 PM - Re: Aluminum Wing? (GeneWeber) 9. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Wing? (Amsafetyc@aol.com) 10. 02:39 PM - Alum. wing (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 11. 02:48 PM - Re: Slick Mag e-gap (Jim Sury) 12. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Wing? (Wayne E. Bressler Jr.) 13. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Wing? (Steve Glass) 14. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Wing? () 15. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Wing? (Amsafetyc@aol.com) 16. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Wing? (HelsperSew@aol.com) 17. 05:38 PM - Re: Pietenpol used in TV eposode (Clif Dawson) 18. 05:39 PM - alum wing (Dick Navratil) 19. 05:49 PM - Re: alum wing (Phillips, Jack) 20. 05:53 PM - Re: Aluminum Wing? (Graham Hansen) 21. 06:22 PM - Magneto tools (John B Franklin Jr) 22. 06:28 PM - Re: Pietenpol used in TV eposode (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 23. 07:40 PM - Re: alum wing (Dick Navratil) 24. 08:09 PM - ????????? Aluminum Wing, Surely you Jest ????????? (Marc Dumay) 25. 08:21 PM - Re: Aluminum Wing? (Roman Bukolt) 26. 08:32 PM - Re: Magneto tools (Jim Sury) 27. 09:42 PM - Re: Pietenpol used in TV eposode (Shawn Wolk) 28. 11:07 PM - Re: Magneto tools (Catdesigns) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:38 AM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair List Larry: heres is the link to sign up: http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html michael silvius scarborough, maine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rice" > > What Corvair list? I'd like to get on that one. > > Larry the microMong guy ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode From: I was watching a special last night about Vimy Ridge where the Canadians took the Germans in the First World War using a technique called creeping barrage and they had to use a Pietenpol to depict the old type aircraft they would have used in the War.We all know that the Piet wasn't around back then and I got a kick out of these guys using it for the show.The camera man had a hell of a time getting into the front seat until they finally figured it out.What a hoot.The show was called Vimy Ridge Heaven to Hell or something like that.In the animation they showed the real planes that would have been used.I think Bernard would have gotten a kick out of this show. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? From: "GeneWeber" Hi Folks, Seems like almost everything under the sun has been tried regarding the AirCamper. I'm curious if anyone has used an aluminum wing on one? If so, does anyone know how the weight of the aluminum wing compared to a wooden one? Thanks, Gene Weber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103213#103213 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:19 AM PST US From: "baileys" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? IMHO a properly built up aluminum spar would be lighter, stronger and cheaper than certified aircraft quality spruce. Aluminum ribs would be very easy to fabricate. If one covered the D section with aluminum it would be very rigid. don't know about the overall cost, but it would probably save a lot of time. I imagine that most Pietenpol fans would consider it pure heresy. If I did build one that way I don't believe I would call ot a Pietenpol. Just the musings of an old fool, Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: GeneWeber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? Hi Folks, Seems like almost everything under the sun has been tried regarding the AirCamper. I'm curious if anyone has used an aluminum wing on one? If so, does anyone know how the weight of the aluminum wing compared to a wooden one? Thanks, Gene Weber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103213#103213 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:44 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? From: Well I don't know why not .There are Pietenpols out there that are made out of metal so why not the wing. I would still keep the spars wood though since wood bends more and less vibration. My N3 Pup wings are made exactly as you describe and if they were made bigger then they could easily fit on the Piet since the N3 Pup is really a J3 only =BE size and the GN-1 is the same as a J3. And the GN-1 is the same as a Piet ,right.;-) Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of baileys Sent: March 27, 2007 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? IMHO a properly built up aluminum spar would be lighter, stronger and cheaper than certified aircraft quality spruce. Aluminum ribs would be very easy to fabricate. If one covered the D section with aluminum it would be very rigid. don't know about the overall cost, but it would probably save a lot of time. I imagine that most Pietenpol fans would consider it pure heresy. If I did build one that way I don't believe I would call ot a Pietenpol. Just the musings of an old fool, Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: GeneWeber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? Hi Folks, Seems like almost everything under the sun has been tried regarding the AirCamper. I'm curious if anyone has used an aluminum wing on one? If so, does anyone know how the weight of the aluminum wing compared to a wooden one? Thanks, Gene Weber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103213#103213 http://www.mat p; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:54 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? perhaps call it a : TunaCamper? AlumaPete? PietenSpam? DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: baileys To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? IMHO a properly built up aluminum spar would be lighter, stronger and cheaper than certified aircraft quality spruce. Aluminum ribs would be very easy to fabricate. If one covered the D section with aluminum it would be very rigid. don't know about the overall cost, but it would probably save a lot of time. I imagine that most Pietenpol fans would consider it pure heresy. If I did build one that way I don't believe I would call ot a Pietenpol. Just the musings of an old fool, Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: GeneWeber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? Hi Folks, Seems like almost everything under the sun has been tried regarding the AirCamper. I'm curious if anyone has used an aluminum wing on one? If so, does anyone know how the weight of the aluminum wing compared to a wooden one? Thanks, Gene Weber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103213#103213 http://www.matp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? From: I like Tunacamper! Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: March 27, 2007 1:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? perhaps call it a : TunaCamper? AlumaPete? PietenSpam? DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: baileys To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? IMHO a properly built up aluminum spar would be lighter, stronger and cheaper than certified aircraft quality spruce. Aluminum ribs would be very easy to fabricate. If one covered the D section with aluminum it would be very rigid. don't know about the overall cost, but it would probably save a lot of time. I imagine that most Pietenpol fans would consider it pure heresy. If I did build one that way I don't believe I would call ot a Pietenpol. Just the musings of an old fool, Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: GeneWeber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? em2@vzavenue.net> Hi Folks, Seems like almost everything under the sun has been tried regarding the AirCamper. I'm curious if anyone has used an aluminum wing on one? If so, does anyone know how the weight of the aluminum wing compared to a wooden one? Thanks, Gene Weber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103213#103213 http://www.matp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? From: "GeneWeber" Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. Regards, Gene Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? From: Amsafetyc@aol.com I am working on using a combined aluminum and wood wing spar sandwich design. My research indicates a weight and stress advantage with the sandwich design. Has anyone else considered that design alteration? Would be interested in your thoughts! John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "GeneWeber" To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. Regards, Gene Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:49 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alum. wing There was a picture in one of the news letter a couple of years ago that showed a metal wing being built for a Piet. There has been no follow up since. I ve also wondered about bildig an alum. tube fus. Built the way some of those WW 1 replicas are with al. gussets and pop type rivits. Some of them are full size, and there was a Newport 28 (?) at Osh. wit a 150 hp radial. So it should be plenty strong. Another way would be to use al. angle with bolts (BD-4 style) or Avex rivits. .....or al. honey comb with some sort of exotic Jim Beedy bonding agent (glue) like that latest BD airplane. Leon S. in Ks. always thinking. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:42 PM PST US From: "Jim Sury" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Slick Mag e-gap Chuck Are you talking about a T-150 tool for checking the e-gap? I've been looking to purchase one of them tools and was not able to find out who sells them. Checked with Aircraft Spruce and they wanted to sell me the electronic tool for setting the timing. Would appreciate if you have an address of the supplier. I don't think the e-gap setting is gonna imporve the static rpm. I have one mag that I broke the case on and had to replace it. So now I need to set the e-gap. What is happening to me is that the mag is not up to full change when it fires. On mag check the engine runs rough on that mag. Not knowing how to set it I just let the points open just as soon as they could which isn't right. Thanks Jim Sury ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick Mag e-gap I wasn't able to check the e-gap of the slick mag's, because I haven't got the tool to do it...yet. I don't think I'm getting enough rpm on static run up, so I've got to get that tool, and pull the mags again to check the e-gap. Has anyone ever checked the e-gap on their slick mags ??? Chuck G. NX770CG ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- AOL now offers free http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" href="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" target="_blank">AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:07 PM PST US From: "Wayne E. Bressler Jr." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? In a really old issue of Sport Aviation, some writer (I can't remember his name) went and interviewed Bernard Pietenpol. During his visit, Bernard gave him a completed built-up Air Camper rib and an aluminum Aeronca Champ rib for souvenirs. When the writer got home, he weighed both ribs on a postal scale. The result? The aluminum weighed exactly one ounce less than the wood rib. That's a saving of what? One or two pounds? Not really worth the effort, I wouldn't think. But, to each his own, right! ;-) -Wayne Bressler wayne@taildraggersinc.com www.taildraggersinc.com GeneWeber wrote: > > Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] > > Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. > > Regards, > > Gene > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:58 PM PST US From: "Steve Glass" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? Hi John I'm sure you could come up with a aluminium wood sandwich spar that is stronger and lighter than just wood. The question is what you would use to bond it together with and how you would deal with the different coefficents of expansion particularly with large temperature changes over time. How would it be possible to inspect this bond. Just my thoughts. Steve in Maine >From: Amsafetyc@aol.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:32:40 +0000 > > >I am working on using a combined aluminum and wood wing spar sandwich >design. My research indicates a weight and stress advantage with the >sandwich design. Has anyone else considered that design alteration? > >Would be interested in your thoughts! > >John >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: "GeneWeber" >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:38:52 >To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? > > >Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also >be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] > >Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane >craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum >wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real >experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. > >Regards, > >Gene > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 > > _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get intro-rate 4.625%* https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:23 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? As an engineer, I would be concerned about the difference in moduli of elasticity when using two quite different materials such as aluminum and wood. I would really like to see your spar design and calculations. Mike Hardaway PS: for those who don't know, pairing up materials of different elasticity can allow the stiffer material to absorb most of the stress when the composite structure is loaded. A composite structure has to be carefully designed to benefit from the combined properties of the two materials. ---- Amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: > > I am working on using a combined aluminum and wood wing spar sandwich design. My research indicates a weight and stress advantage with the sandwich design. Has anyone else considered that design alteration? > > Would be interested in your thoughts! > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "GeneWeber" > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:38:52 > To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? > > > Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] > > Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. > > Regards, > > Gene > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? From: Amsafetyc@aol.com Still in research and evaluation. Awaiting engineering stress analysis of spar for dynamic loading of the structure in addition to torsion evaluation as a major engineering concern in stress application. The rates of expansion due to thermal changes should not be that dramatic as to creating an issue affecting a bond. I am considering a full width fastner backed up with a capable adhesive. Considering a 3M product. All issues remain up in the air till stress analysis is complete John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? As an engineer, I would be concerned about the difference in moduli of elasticity when using two quite different materials such as aluminum and wood. I would really like to see your spar design and calculations. Mike Hardaway PS: for those who don't know, pairing up materials of different elasticity can allow the stiffer material to absorb most of the stress when the composite structure is loaded. A composite structure has to be carefully designed to benefit from the combined properties of the two materials. ---- Amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: > > I am working on using a combined aluminum and wood wing spar sandwich design. My research indicates a weight and stress advantage with the sandwich design. Has anyone else considered that design alteration? > > Would be interested in your thoughts! > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "GeneWeber" > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:38:52 > To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? > > > Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] > > Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. > > Regards, > > Gene > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:22 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? Sorry guys, but being an old world low and slow airplane builder, my eyes are beginning to glaze over. Me thinks you should switch to one of those high-tech lists. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:25 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode That's Shawn's plane, C-FRAZ http://www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=103246 It's on twice more. Clif > > > I was watching a special last night about Vimy Ridge where the Canadians > took the Germans in the First World War using a technique called > creeping barrage and they had to use a Pietenpol to depict the old type > aircraft they would have used in the War.We all know that the Piet > wasn't around back then and I got a kick out of these guys using it for > the show.The camera man had a hell of a time getting into the front seat > until they finally figured it out.What a hoot.The show was called Vimy > Ridge Heaven to Hell or something like that.In the animation they showed > the real planes that would have been used.I think Bernard would have > gotten a kick out of this show. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:32 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Wouldnt it be better to have this aluminum discussion a couple of days later, say April 1? Dick N. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: alum wing From: "Phillips, Jack" Naw, on April 1st I want to have a discussion about a carbon fiber spar for the Pietenpol. Having just finished riveting together the tail section for an RV-10, I say anyone who wants to do that for a whole wing of a Pietenpol instead of the joy of creating a work of art in wood needs his head examined. Fortunately, the RV-10 has a "quickbuild" kit option for the wing. The Pietenpol doesn't have such an option. And doesn't need it for the wood wing. Jack Phillips NX899JP Plotting out my course to Sun 'n' Fun in a couple of weeks -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Wouldnt it be better to have this aluminum discussion a couple of days later, say April 1? Dick N. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:56 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? Perhaps 15 years ago, I built a sample Pietenpol wing rib from .020" 2024 T3 aluminum alloy angles as a design study. It was relatively easy to fabricate, and took less time than making a standard Pietenpol rib. I never pursued the concept and gave it to a friend who still has it. The plan was to use wooden spars with aluminum ribs, leading edge skin and trailing edge in much the same way the wings of a Cub, Taylorcraft or Aeronca were built. It was felt that some weight could be saved by doing so. In any case, I would like to see someone try this approach; it won't be me because, as BHP used to say, "I've had too many birthdays!". If one could find extruded aluminum spars similar to those used on Piper airplanes, an all-metal wing structure could be had (fabric-covered, of course). Using blank Cub type spar extrusions would require changing the airfoil section, and this likely wouldn't be acceptable to Pietenpol lovers (myself included). I don't know if any weight could be saved by using metal spars, somebody out there will likely check this out. It would be virtually impossible to save weight in the "tail feathers" by going to metal. The wooden empennage is just about as light as it is possible to make it, and there is no advantage in abandoning the standard wooden version. I built a steel tubing fuselage years ago and sold it to a fellow who finished the airplane. The tail surfaces were of steel tubing with light steel channel ribs. While the basic fuselage structure was lighter than the wooden one, there wasn't much difference by the time the seat supports, brackets for controls, etc. were added. Nevertheless, the completed airplane flew well and its empty weight was about average for the type. I don't think it would be inappropriate for someone to design an all-metal wing structure, provided the appearance of the Pietenpol airplane isn't compromised too much. An alternative to scarce and expensive aircraft quality spruce would be beneficial, in my humble opinion. Go for it! Graham Hansen [Pietenpol CF-AUN (wood structure) in Alberta, Canada] ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:46 PM PST US From: John B Franklin Jr Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto tools Jim, Sacramento Sky Ranch has several tools for working on mags including a T150, here's the link: http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/Sacramento_Sky_Ranch_Magneto_tools_52.html See you Saturday! John F. ________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:27 PM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode thats very cool, do we know if it is airing here in the US any time?? michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" > That's Shawn's plane, C-FRAZ > > http://www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=103246 > > It's on twice more. > > Clif ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:48 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Hey Jack I'll hopefully see you at SNF. I'll be there all week, working in the wood workshop again this year. I know Skip Gadd and P.F. Beck will also be there. We are going to try building a Volmer Amphib fuselage at the show this year. Should be interesting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:48 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Naw, on April 1st I want to have a discussion about a carbon fiber spar for the Pietenpol. Having just finished riveting together the tail section for an RV-10, I say anyone who wants to do that for a whole wing of a Pietenpol instead of the joy of creating a work of art in wood needs his head examined. Fortunately, the RV-10 has a "quickbuild" kit option for the wing. The Pietenpol doesn't have such an option. And doesn't need it for the wood wing. Jack Phillips NX899JP Plotting out my course to Sun 'n' Fun in a couple of weeks -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:31 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Wouldnt it be better to have this aluminum discussion a couple of days later, say April 1? Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:23 PM PST US From: "Marc Dumay" Subject: Pietenpol-List: ????????? Aluminum Wing, Surely you Jest ????????? Why would you, or any one else even consider an Aluminum Wing for a Pietenpol? A Pietenpol is a Pietenpol Aluminum is great, great for some other type and purpose. To inflict such an idea upon a nostalgic design, and a bit of Aviation History is outright wrong. Lets make sure if one is built, that its ramped as far away as possible f rom the real Pietenpol builders. Cloth and wood, is what makes a Pietenpol as great as it is. No offense intended. LOL Captain Marcus, On ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:06 PM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? I vaguely recall, I believe, it was Bill Rewey who told me that someone oncebuilt a Pietenpol wing using aluminum spars. When it flew it was difficult to control because aileron deflection caused the wing to warp. Just a bit of "food for thought". Roman Bukolt NX20795 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Hansen" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? > > > Perhaps 15 years ago, I built a sample Pietenpol wing rib from .020" 2024 > T3 aluminum alloy angles as a design study. It was relatively easy to > fabricate, and took less time than making a standard Pietenpol rib. I > never pursued the concept and gave it to a friend who still has it. > > The plan was to use wooden spars with aluminum ribs, leading edge skin and > trailing edge in much the same way the wings of a Cub, Taylorcraft or > Aeronca were built. It was felt that some weight could be saved by doing > so. In any case, I would like to see someone try this approach; it won't > be me because, as BHP used to say, "I've had too many birthdays!". > > If one could find extruded aluminum spars similar to those used on Piper > airplanes, an all-metal wing structure could be had (fabric-covered, of > course). Using blank Cub type spar extrusions would require changing the > airfoil section, and this likely wouldn't be acceptable to Pietenpol > lovers (myself included). I don't know if any weight could be saved by > using metal spars, somebody out there will likely check this out. > > It would be virtually impossible to save weight in the "tail feathers" by > going to metal. The wooden empennage is just about as light as it is > possible to make it, and there is no advantage in abandoning the standard > wooden version. I built a steel tubing fuselage years ago and sold it to a > fellow who finished the airplane. The tail surfaces were of steel tubing > with light steel channel ribs. While the basic fuselage structure was > lighter than the wooden one, there wasn't much difference by the time the > seat supports, brackets for controls, etc. were added. Nevertheless, the > completed airplane flew well and its empty weight was about average for > the type. > > I don't think it would be inappropriate for someone to design an all-metal > wing structure, provided the appearance of the Pietenpol airplane isn't > compromised too much. An alternative to scarce and expensive aircraft > quality spruce would be beneficial, in my humble opinion. > > Go for it! > > Graham Hansen [Pietenpol CF-AUN (wood structure) in > Alberta, Canada] > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:27 PM PST US From: "Jim Sury" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto tools Thanks John I've been lookin for that tool for some time. Never used this company before. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John B Franklin Jr" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto tools > > > Jim, > > Sacramento Sky Ranch has several tools for working on mags including a > T150, here's the link: > > http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/Sacramento_Sky_Ranch_Magneto_tools_52.html > > See you Saturday! > > John F. > > > ________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:07 PM PST US From: "Shawn Wolk" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode I really don't know if it'll ever air in the USA. You realize that Vimy was before the US entered the war. So its not part of US history. The History Television channel in Canada is owned by a company in Georgia. So I would imagine that if enough people sent an email to them they might show it in the US. On another note. it was great to finally see the show in its finished product. The scene of the camera/spotter getting in was quite funny in real life. The last time we talked about it. He (Capt. Roeder, Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry) and myself joking that the director wasn't going to cut that scene. He really didn't want his ass broadcast on National Television. Once I trained him on how to get in. It was much easier the second time. When they were looking for an appropriate aircraft to use. It was very hard to find any WW1 aircraft in actual flying condition that could be available in the prairies in November. In the actual battle, an Airo DH2 would have been spotting. But I don't believe any are flying in the world. There is one at the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa and apparently at a museum in London. For the majority of the public. The Pietenpol looks the part quite well. The entire process of being involved in the production was both educational and enlightening. There are only 2 Canadian WW1 veterans still alive. (106 & 107 years old) And its films like this that will make us remember the monumental victory and great sacrifice of these young men. Fighting so far away from home. 'Lest we forget' ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:21 PM PST US From: "Catdesigns" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto tools Jim, Sacramento Sky Ranch is a good company and is only a mile or so from where I work. They know a heck of a lot about engines. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sury" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto tools > > > Thanks John I've been lookin for that tool for some time. Never used this > company before. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John B Franklin Jr" > To: "Piet_List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:22 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto tools > > >> >> >> Jim, >> >> Sacramento Sky Ranch has several tools for working on mags including a >> T150, here's the link: >> >> http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/Sacramento_Sky_Ranch_Magneto_tools_52.html >> >> See you Saturday! >> >> John F. >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.