Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:12 AM - Re: Santiago: donde estas? (Clif Dawson)
2. 02:03 AM - Re: BOM (Peter W Johnson)
3. 05:33 AM - Aileron Travel (skellytownflyer)
4. 05:53 AM - Re: You guys are good ! Changing subject lines ()
5. 06:21 AM - Re: Wing weight (walt evans)
6. 06:47 AM - Re: Wing weight (Tom Bernie)
7. 07:46 AM - Re: Wing weight (Isablcorky@aol.com)
8. 09:23 AM - Re: Santiago: donde estas? (walt evans)
9. 09:24 AM - Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet (Rick Holland)
10. 09:33 AM - Re: BOM (Rick Holland)
11. 10:35 AM - Santiago: donde estas? (santiago morete)
12. 02:06 PM - Re: Santiago: donde estas? ()
13. 04:15 PM - Sport aviation: Mont. Piet (Dick Navratil)
14. 04:38 PM - Re: BOM (Scott Schreiber)
15. 05:15 PM - Join the EAA? And more progress (Scott Schreiber)
16. 06:29 PM - Re: Join the EAA? And more progress (Ed G.)
17. 07:14 PM - Re: Wing weight (Rick Holland)
18. 08:52 PM - Re: Wing weight (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Santiago: donde estas? |
This is a little late, sorry about that.
Does this Dacron shrink evenly in BOTH directions.
Most fabric sold for clothing has been preshrunk in
one direction already.
Clif
Thank you very much guys! I cannot either wait to see the finished
product!! In the meantime i'm enjoying the construction. I guess I will
cover it with an argentinian made dacron fabric (much less expensive).
Saludos
Santiago
Message 2
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Ryan,
Check out HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com.
Go
to =93Services & Suppliers=94 and click on =93Material Lists=94. These
are the lists
I used. I included some spare timber.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Michalkiewicz
Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2007 12:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: BOM
Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin
ordering wood.
Thank you;
Ryan Michalkiewicz
_____
Don't be flakey. HYPERLINK
"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail"Get
Yahoo!
Mail for Mobile and
HYPERLINK
"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail"always
stay
connected to friends.
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
--
30/03/2007
1:15 PM
--
30/03/2007
1:15 PM
Message 3
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Looking at Santiago's beautiful Wing pictures-and seeing the Aileron view makes
me wonder how much down aileron travel there is with the originals-has anyone
got the measurements on how much travel they have at the trailing edge from neutral
to full up or down when rigged? Too wet to fly here in the Texas panhandle
this morning,but I can build.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104073#104073
Message 4
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Subject: | You guys are good ! Changing subject lines |
You made my dayHAHAHAHAHA!
Do not archive
It's alright Harv, That warm feeling is just the Mexican
take out from dinner.
A little later we can maybe talk them each into lighting
one of them little floating candles and putting it in the
toilet bowl.
Guarantied to take the "fuzzy" out of "Warm and fuzzy" !
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Clif
Message 5
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After building my Piet wing with routed 1" spars, I got a chance to see an
Aeronca wing not covered. Its amazing how relitively flimsy it looked
compared to the Piet.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight
> <catdesigns@comcast.net>
>
> Rick
>
> If you look at this picture of the data plate on the Last Original,
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/BHP%20Built/40_data_plate.jpg , you can
> see that Mr. Pietenpol lists an empty weight of 641 and gross weight of
> 1,282 pounds. I believe this plane has the 3/4-inch spars like yours does.
> I take this to mean you can list 1,225 pounds as your gross weight and
> still have a safe plane.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
> Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight
>
>
>> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> I am still working on weight and balance issues, gross weight, etc., so I
>> have a couple of questions. (FYI, I also have solid 3/4" spruce spars
>> and plan a 1/16" ply wing LE.)
>>
>> When you say your fuze, as described, is 340 lbs., and your right and
>> left wings weigh 49 lbs. each.-- is your center wing included in the fuze
>> weight?
>>
>> Do you already know the weight of your engine and mount and cowling?
>>
>> What do you believe the fabric, dope, paint will weigh?
>>
>> When the Piet is done, what gross weight, payloads and wing loadings do
>> you expect to achieve? (I keep running into walls on paper, with my
>> weight, fuel and no passenger, but 60# of baggage for Brodhead. The
>> first wall is what BP rated his ships [1100# or so?]. The second is the
>> FAA and light sport rating [1225#?]. And the third "wall" is actual safe
>> flying fully loaded, in either heavy weather or hard landings.)
>>
>> According to my thinking, BP's original wing loadings are about
>> 7.3#/sq.ft. With a little wider center wing and another foot or so of
>> wing span as well, as you have done(nothing extreme), you can get 1225#
>> GW and still be under 8#/sq.ft. However, with some of these component
>> weights, even 1225# overall weight might be problematic.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts.
>>
>> Tim in central TX
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
>>>Sent: Mar 30, 2007 12:26 PM
>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight
>>>
>>>Tom
>>>
>>>My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three
>>>piece
>>>wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply leading
>>>edge.
>>>I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a little longer span
>>>than
>>>stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" including the wingtip. Don't
>>>know
>>>if that is heavy or light for a Piet wing section. That includes varnish
>>>also.
>>>
>>>In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage airframe
>>>from
>>>the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, cowling), but
>>>including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 tires, brakes,
>>>flight
>>>instruments but no engine instruments, tail wheel, empty fuel tank is 340
>>>lbs.
>>>
>>>Rick
>>>
>>>On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie <tsbernie@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>> I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all
>>>> hardware,
>>>> cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir
>>>> with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega?
>>>>
>>>> Tom Bernie
>>>> Gloucester Mass
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Rick Holland
>>>
>>>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Clif,
The Grega modification cad drawings don't call for routing (they specify
aircraft spruce). Now I wish I had routed or looked into a built up
spar -- at least my spars are laminated and strong.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight
Did you rout the spars as per the plans?
Clif
<tsbernie@earthlink.net>
>
> Rick,
>
> Thanks for the reply. Guess I'm getting what I deserve for using Fir.
> At 25% heavier it really shows up in the uncovered wing.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
Message 7
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Hey Rick,
Don't assume a negative attitude on fir. There is fir and then there is fir.
Look for some cheap fir and you can sure find. Search around and find a
reputable lumber business. Specify what you are looking for and give them a
chance to provide. Then and only then fret about the cost. 41CC has fir spars,
3/4
with areas routed which I would NEVER do again. My finished uncovered wings
weighed in about 48 pounds each and around 60 totally finished.
Her are the lumber specs I asked for: 16 ft length, 2X6 rough, Douglas fir
vertical grain, kiln dried w/ straight grains at least 12 to an inch. My
lumberman put me on hold for a couple of days while he searched his pile and came
back with the question, " would 18 to 24 grains suit you?". You too can find
a source as well but don't accept that what is pushed by the price. Maybe you
are not as old and ugly as Corky but he has learned that you ain't gonna get
anything worth a d--- without paying for it. "Excuse me E"
Found the fir to be only a slight few ounces heavier than the spruce I
milled for 311CC. IF I were to build another which is totally out of reason I
would go with good, light Douglas Fir for the entire Piet.
Sorry to have butted in on your conversation
Corky
Retired Piet builder
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Santiago: donde estas? |
Yes, in all directions.
I believe the rate is 11% shrink. For the width of the wing it can be
lose enough to be able to pinch between the fingers at the center of the
chord, before shrinking.
Some make the mistake of glueing it on too tightly. It need to shrink to
"condence" for the strength. See the Poly Fiber manual.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Santiago: donde estas?
This is a little late, sorry about that.
Does this Dacron shrink evenly in BOTH directions.
Most fabric sold for clothing has been preshrunk in
one direction already.
Clif
Thank you very much guys! I cannot either wait to see the finished
product!! In the meantime i'm enjoying the construction. I guess I will
cover it with an argentinian made dacron fabric (much less expensive).
Saludos
Santiago
Message 9
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|
Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet |
Real good idea Dick, post an address for us to send a check.
Rick
On 3/30/07, Dick Navratil <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
>
> I just finished reading a wonderful article in the new Sport Aviation
> about the group of Jr high kids restoring a Piet originally built in 1932.
> It was originally built in 9 monthe which is amazing by itself.
> These kids have been working like crazy on this project.
> As long as everybody here has been feeling so huggy here lately, how about
> we all send them a gift from all of the Piet builders around the country. I
> would recommend we could gather checks made to their local EAA Chapter 57
> and send them together.
> Any comments?
>
> Dick N.
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 10
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|
Ryan
This may help a bit, attached the Piet wood kit from ACS that I purchased a
couple years ago for $800. Don't know what the price is now. Included all
the wood I needed for a long fuselage minus 500 ft. of 1/4 x 1/2 capstrip as
mentioned on the list, and sheets of 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4" plywood.
Congratulations on your decision to start your project.
Rick
On 3/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin
> ordering wood.
>
> Thank you;
>
> Ryan Michalkiewicz
>
> ------------------------------
> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail>and
> always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail>to friends.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Santiago: donde estas? |
Yes Clif, this fabric is for aircraft use, but is made only in 2.7oz (I was looking
for 1.7oz) so I will use minimun dope and paint, or maybe latex? to keep
the weight down. Will see
Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
Pregunt. Respond. Descubr.
Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
Message 12
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Subject: | Santiago: donde estas? |
Be very careful when shrinking Dacron;it has been known to actually
crush the ribs of the wing.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: March 31, 2007 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Santiago: donde estas?
Yes, in all directions.
I believe the rate is 11% shrink. For the width of the wing it can be
lose enough to be able to pinch between the fingers at the center of the
chord, before shrinking.
Some make the mistake of glueing it on too tightly. It need to shrink to
"condence" for the strength. See the Poly Fiber manual.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson <mailto:CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Santiago: donde estas?
This is a little late, sorry about that.
Does this Dacron shrink evenly in BOTH directions.
Most fabric sold for clothing has been preshrunk in
one direction already.
Clif
Thank you very much guys! I cannot either wait to see
the finished product!! In the meantime i'm enjoying the construction. I
guess I will cover it with an argentinian made dacron fabric (much less
expensive). Saludos
Santiago
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Sport aviation: Mont. Piet |
I occurred to me although unlikely, some here may not get Sport
Aviation, so let me summarize the article.
Bernard Pietenpols plans appeared in the Flying and Glider Manual in
1932. Right away, David Comstock of Roundup, Mt. began construction on
his Aircamper. He completed the plane in 9 months, when he was 17 years
old. This is the first Aircamper ever completed by someone other than
Bernard Pietenpol.
The plane sat for many years in his old welding shop. Now kids from
the local school are restoring the plane to be displayed in a museum in
town. The kids doing this are all girls from 12 to 17 years old with
the supervision of their teacher. David Comstock left money in his will
to restore and build a hangar to display the plane.
The teacher has applied for grants for the students as rewards but
received none. Several of these girls have been very enthusiastic about
learning to fly.
I thought it might be very nice of members of this group to do something
for the kids who have done this. This might contribute to flying
lessons, education or the program the kids are in.
I plan to blow off any calls for contributions I receive from
politicals, theater groups and such and make this my cause this year.
I anyone is interested, make a check to EAA Chapter 57
and send to me Dick Navratil
1415 Skiles Ln.
Arden Hills, Mn. 55112
Also, send along a pic of yourself with your plane or project and we can
bundle them all together.
Dick
Message 14
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|
Just beware that the wing kit does not include leading or trailing edge
Spruce. If your going to order the spruce kit you will be paying truck
shipping, so you may as well get those pieces in one the same order and
save about $100.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BOM
Ryan
This may help a bit, attached the Piet wood kit from ACS that I
purchased a couple years ago for $800. Don't know what the price is now.
Included all the wood I needed for a long fuselage minus 500 ft. of 1/4
x 1/2 capstrip as mentioned on the list, and sheets of 1/16", 1/8", and
1/4" plywood. Congratulations on your decision to start your project.
Rick
On 3/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt@yahoo.com> wrote:
Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin
ordering wood.
Thank you;
Ryan Michalkiewicz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and
always stay connected to friends.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Join the EAA? And more progress |
I was looking into the EAA, and I suppose it varies on a chapter by
chapter basis, but what sort of benefit have piet builders seen from the
EAA? What in general could one expect from the EAA? Broad questions but
about the best I could think of.
I also got a fair ammount done in between allot of other efforts this
weekend. The tail fittings got finished and the tail is on. I also got
the plane side motor mounts done but got sort of stonewalled on the
motor mount itself.
Upper mounts
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31a.jpg
Lower mounts
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31b.jpg
Tail on
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31d.jpg
Elevator work
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31e.jpg
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31g.jpg
-Scott
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Join the EAA? And more progress |
EAA is a great organization and helps tremendously to keep our sport/
hobby alive and well. I'm sure all the chapters are different. My
particular chapter is mostly about high dollar kit planes in aluminum
and composite with glass panels that cost more than my whole Pietenpol.
When I mention wood and fabric they look at me like I have three heads
or something. So I end up belonging but not attending the meetings very
often. You can go to the meetings a few times to check out your local
chapter and see where they're at before you join. Ed G.
From: Scott Schreiber<mailto:got22b@subarubrat.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 9:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Join the EAA? And more progress
I was looking into the EAA, and I suppose it varies on a chapter by
chapter basis, but what sort of benefit have piet builders seen from the
EAA? What in general could one expect from the EAA? Broad questions but
about the best I could think of.
I also got a fair ammount done in between allot of other efforts this
weekend. The tail fittings got finished and the tail is on. I also got
the plane side motor mounts done but got sort of stonewalled on the
motor mount itself.
Upper mounts
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31a.jpg<http://www.subarubrat.com/m
isc/pietmar31a.jpg>
Lower mounts
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31b.jpg<http://www.subarubrat.com/m
isc/pietmar31b.jpg>
Tail on
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31d.jpg<http://www.subarubrat.com/m
isc/pietmar31d.jpg>
Elevator work
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31e.jpg<http://www.subarubrat.com/m
isc/pietmar31e.jpg>
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31g.jpg<http://www.subarubrat.com/m
isc/pietmar31g.jpg>
-Scott
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
Message 17
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|
That's good to know Chris, and it would be nice if my long fuse Corvair Piet
comes in at only 641 empty but I know thats impossible since I will have a
starter and battery (and three piece wing). Its interesting since the Flyer
and Glider Manual article shows 1080 gross using routed 1" spars with 625
empty weight. I imagine with more and more building and test flying
experience Bernard upped the gross weight number.
Tim - to answer your question, the 340 lb number is for the entire uncovered
airframe (wings, tail, gear) with nothing forward of the firewall. According
to William Wynne the corvair engine, mount, and prop will be 240 lbs. No
idea what a cowling will weight, 10 lbs? Will be using 1.7 fabric and latex
paint so hopefully the cover and paint will not add too much more. I am
hoping for an empty weight just under 700 lbs. As far as gross weight goes,
if Bernard rated his last long fuse corvair at 1282 that is good enough for
me.
As far as wing loading goes, with my 3 ft. center section my span will be 30
1/2' which makes for a wing area of 152.5 sq ft and at 1282 gross comes to
8.4 lb/sq ft. The Flying and Glider Manual specs (1080 and 140 sq ft) come
to 7.7 lb/sq ft. Since I will be flying solo 95% of the time my flying
weight with full fuel should be around 1000 lbs which comes to 6.55 lb/sq
ft.
Rick
On 3/31/07, Catdesigns <catdesigns@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> Rick
>
> If you look at this picture of the data plate on the Last Original,
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/BHP%20Built/40_data_plate.jpg , you can
> see
> that Mr. Pietenpol lists an empty weight of 641 and gross weight of 1,282
> pounds. I believe this plane has the 3/4-inch spars like yours does. I
> take
> this to mean you can list 1,225 pounds as your gross weight and still have
> a
> safe plane.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
> Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight
>
>
> > <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Rick,
> >
> > I am still working on weight and balance issues, gross weight, etc., so
> I
> > have a couple of questions. (FYI, I also have solid 3/4" spruce spars
> and
> > plan a 1/16" ply wing LE.)
> >
> > When you say your fuze, as described, is 340 lbs., and your right and
> left
> > wings weigh 49 lbs. each.-- is your center wing included in the fuze
> > weight?
> >
> > Do you already know the weight of your engine and mount and cowling?
> >
> > What do you believe the fabric, dope, paint will weigh?
> >
> > When the Piet is done, what gross weight, payloads and wing loadings do
> > you expect to achieve? (I keep running into walls on paper, with my
> > weight, fuel and no passenger, but 60# of baggage for Brodhead. The
> first
> > wall is what BP rated his ships [1100# or so?]. The second is the FAA
> and
> > light sport rating [1225#?]. And the third "wall" is actual safe flying
> > fully loaded, in either heavy weather or hard landings.)
> >
> > According to my thinking, BP's original wing loadings are about
> > 7.3#/sq.ft. With a little wider center wing and another foot or so of
> > wing span as well, as you have done(nothing extreme), you can get 1225#
> GW
> > and still be under 8#/sq.ft. However, with some of these component
> > weights, even 1225# overall weight might be problematic.
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughts.
> >
> > Tim in central TX
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >>From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> >>Sent: Mar 30, 2007 12:26 PM
> >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight
> >>
> >>Tom
> >>
> >>My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three
> >>piece
> >>wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply leading
> >>edge.
> >>I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a little longer span
> than
> >>stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" including the wingtip. Don't
> know
> >>if that is heavy or light for a Piet wing section. That includes varnish
> >>also.
> >>
> >>In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage airframe
> >>from
> >>the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, cowling), but
> >>including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 tires, brakes,
> flight
> >>instruments but no engine instruments, tail wheel, empty fuel tank is
> 340
> >>lbs.
> >>
> >>Rick
> >>
> >>On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie <tsbernie@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
> >>>
> >>> I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all
> hardware,
> >>> cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir
> >>> with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega?
> >>>
> >>> Tom Bernie
> >>> Gloucester Mass
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Rick Holland
> >>
> >>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 18
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The original weight limit had nothing to do with the strength
of the airframe or the experience level. It had everything to
do with the limited hp of the Ford engine. I have, and have
provided here on the list a few times, the formula for
"minimum safe climb/ hp/gross weight" . The Ford Piet is
right on that minimum.
The reason for the higher gross in the Last Original is the
higher horsepower of the Corvair.
We all assume that the G loading is the only factor being
considered. After all, it does make sense. Most AC we
see are not so extremely power limited so then weight
becomes more the issue. That's what "trade off" means,
isn't it. Off course this works up to a point. At what weight
does the Piet become unsafe, G wise?
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight
That's good to know Chris, and it would be nice if my long fuse
Corvair Piet comes in at only 641 empty but I know thats impossible
since I will have a starter and battery (and three piece wing). Its
interesting since the Flyer and Glider Manual article shows 1080 gross
using routed 1" spars with 625 empty weight. I imagine with more and
more building and test flying experience Bernard upped the gross weight
number.
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