Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:20 AM - Piet video now on DVD (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
2. 06:17 AM - bouncy, bouncy, bouncy (Oscar Zuniga)
3. 06:57 AM - Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy (Phillips, Jack)
4. 07:09 AM - Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy (Isablcorky@aol.com)
5. 08:14 AM - Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy ()
6. 10:27 AM - Re: Piet List vs Other Lists (Gene & Tammy)
7. 01:03 PM - Re: Wing Rib Template Problem????? (Don Emch)
8. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem????? (Phillips, Jack)
9. 01:21 PM - Re: Piet video now on DVD (Bill Church)
10. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem????? (Dave Abramson)
11. 01:45 PM - DVD-----try this web site (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
12. 02:00 PM - Re: DVD-----try this web site (Jim Markle)
13. 02:02 PM - Re: DVD-----try this web site (Grover Summers)
14. 03:08 PM - thoughts on videos (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
15. 03:13 PM - Emailing: Antique fly-in Brodhead 007 (Roman Bukolt)
16. 05:16 PM - Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet (Tim Verthein)
17. 05:26 PM - Re Tail bracing (Graham and Robyn)
18. 06:01 PM - Re: Re Tail bracing (Graham Hansen)
19. 06:55 PM - Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy (Graham Hansen)
20. 07:01 PM - another view (Roman Bukolt)
21. 08:12 PM - Re: another view (Catdesigns)
22. 08:21 PM - Re: Wing weight (Rcaprd@aol.com)
23. 08:23 PM - Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy (Rcaprd@aol.com)
24. 08:34 PM - Re: thoughts on videos (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Piet video now on DVD |
Group,
I normally don't advertise my Piet tape here but I finally got somewhat
caught up with technology and now offer
my 2.5 hour rambling dissertation on the building and flying of my plane
on DVD. Info available here:
http://users.aol.com/bpabpabpa/cuyvideo.html
Mike C.
Message 2
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| Subject: | bouncy, bouncy, bouncy |
Roman wrote-
>Bill told me to keep only 15 lbs. pressure in my 6 x 6.00 tires.
>Sorta like a "dead" tennis ball or basket ball I suppose.
Well now, see, there's another thing to play with. I run 26-28 psi in the
tires on 41CC. I believe that came from different recommendations on this
list and a bunch of posts from other Pieters indicated that they run their
tires anywhere from 18 to 22 to 26, to Mike Cuy's elaborate technique of
"ant's-eye view of inflating tires until the tread just touches the
pavement". Of course it would make sense that lower pressure would provide
less bounce but I think I'll keep my tire pressure in the mid-20s.
Interesting item I found while searching the archives for tire pressure.
Dick stated that he holds 1100 RPM down through the flare to minimize bouce.
Aha! Confirmation of what you said, Roman. Now I need to get back out
there and try holding a little power through the flare instead of going to
idle.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
Message 3
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| Subject: | bouncy, bouncy, bouncy |
The question is, which type of bounce are you getting? You can get a
small bounce from the tires if you drop the plane in from a few inches
off the pavement, but the bounce will only be a few inches (somewhat
less than the height from which the plane dropped). But you can get a
pretty impressive "bounce" from aerodynamics if you touch main wheels
first. If the plane is setlling fast and you touch main wheels first,
the tail will continue to settle, increasing the angle of attack of the
wing and generating enough extra lift to lift the plane off the ground
as much as several feet, at which point you run out of airspeed and
stall, dropping it in from a siginificant height.
With my old J-3 Cub many years ago, I once made a landing where I
slipped it over a set of powerlines but didn't pull out of the slip soon
enough. I basically flew the plane into the ground hard enough that the
bungees extended all the way to the stops (I had grass stains on the
belly of the plane). Then as the tail slammed down increasing the angle
of attack and starting the bounce, all that energy stored in the bungees
launched the plane up to about 10 feet off the ground, where I sat fat
dumb and happy with no airspeed. I slammed the throttle wide open and
poined the nose down enough to get the plane flying again and managed to
salvage the landing, but it was close.
Like Roman, I find it easiest to land the Piet with a little power on
until the wheels are rolling. Otherwise you have to time the flare very
carefully. I spent some time in the pattern with mine yesterday,
practicing landings. I can make a good landing without power about one
out of every three tries. With power I can generally make a pretty nice
landing.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
Roman wrote-
>Bill told me to keep only 15 lbs. pressure in my 6 x 6.00 tires.
>Sorta like a "dead" tennis ball or basket ball I suppose.
Well now, see, there's another thing to play with. I run 26-28 psi in
the
tires on 41CC. I believe that came from different recommendations on
this
list and a bunch of posts from other Pieters indicated that they run
their
tires anywhere from 18 to 22 to 26, to Mike Cuy's elaborate technique of
"ant's-eye view of inflating tires until the tread just touches the
pavement". Of course it would make sense that lower pressure would
provide
less bounce but I think I'll keep my tire pressure in the mid-20s.
Interesting item I found while searching the archives for tire pressure.
Dick stated that he holds 1100 RPM down through the flare to minimize
bouce.
Aha! Confirmation of what you said, Roman. Now I need to get back
out
there and try holding a little power through the flare instead of going
to
idle.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglin
eapril07
_________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy |
Here I go butting in on a subject of which I know very little about. My test
pilot, Edwin Johnson, insisted that I develop my wheel landing technique as
soon as possible. He was checking me out on 41CC after a 30 year perod of no
tailwheel flying. It worked and helped me get back in the proper timing for a
landing. Just a suggestion.
Corky
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 5
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| Subject: | bouncy, bouncy, bouncy |
According to the old guys I fly with; they tell me to land on mains all
the time. Do not attempt a 3 point unless you are absolutely sure of
what you are doing and know the aircraft inside and out and all its
quirks. They tell me to keep power on enough to keep her level in the
flair out. Just wait for the air to bleed away and the speed to diminish
enough to let her down on those mains.
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky@aol.com
Sent: April 3, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
Here I go butting in on a subject of which I know very little about. My
test pilot, Edwin Johnson, insisted that I develop my wheel landing
technique as soon as possible. He was checking me out on 41CC after a 30
year perod of no tailwheel flying. It worked and helped me get back in
the proper timing for a landing. Just a suggestion.
Corky
________________________________
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Piet List vs Other Lists |
Jack,
Still waiting for the report on your new prop.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet List vs Other Lists
Mike I can assure you that the higher dollar airplane lists are not as
friendly, on average, as this list. As many of you know, I'm building
an RV-10 and follow that list as well as staying on the Pietenpol list.
There are notable exceptions, but in general, I find the RV-10 list to
contain a lot of whiners, who are NOT interested in building a plane for
education, but are mostly interested in how many $$$'s worth of avionics
they can stuff in the panel. Many of them complain constantly about the
quality of the Van's kit. I can honestly say I am astonished by the
extremely high quality of the Van's kit, and really wonder what these
people are complaining about. I seriously doubt that most of them could
build a Pietenpol. Just a totally different mindset.
I stay on the Pietenpol list because I love the airplane, and like the
folks on this list. I learned an incredible amount as I built my
Pietenpol, and continue to learn things by reading this list. I find
the RV-10 list to be about 1/10th as useful as this list, due to the
fact that it's a kit and little thinking is required to build it, and
the kinds of discussions they have are things like which "glass panel"
to put in it, or which autopilot works better. There is little honest
open discussion of airplane design like we have (although lately there
have been some interesting discussions of flutter). Having sampled both
ends of the homebuilding spectrum I can honestly say that I hope the
RV-10 is the last kit plane I'll ever build, but not the last airplane.
I'd like to either design my own next, or rebuild an antique like a
Travellaire or a Waco.
Different strokes for different folks. I truly enjoyed building my
Pietenpol, with some of the most fun being trying to figure out how to
do things and how to make the parts. That type of fun is missing
entirely from the RV's. The most important decision I get to make in
the building process now is which bucking bar to use. I visited the
Van's factory last October and accused them of doing all the fun parts
of building an airplane and leaving all the drudgery to the homebuilder.
They agreed with me.
So for all you Pieters out there who are building your ships, enjoy
the process. You will end up with a very fine flying machine, and one
that will draw a crowd wherever you go. I flew mine this weekend into a
busy airport with jet traffic and as I landed and made the first turnoff
after a ground roll of maybe 200', a voice came on the radio saying "I
wish I could land my King Air like that!", to which I said "You could,
if it could fly at 40 mph".
Note that I did change the subject line, and please do not archive
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Getting excited now for a 10 hour flight to Sun'n'Fun
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:19 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: new subject lines
Gene-- I agree (and that is why I practice) and do change the subject
line to match more of what I'm posting but many of us
don't do that which reduces the effectiveness of the list somewhat.
Some have encouraged us as a group to update or change the subject
line but lots of times it doesn't get done and you can drag
the same dead horse subject line along with some wonderful new bodies
of text with great info that isn't reflected in the subject line.
By the way, this list is quite friendly and enjoyable and the only
other list I am on is just the same but it is an all wood airplane group
too.
I suspect (from those who are on those other lists telling me) that
there is a spoiled brat, prima donna attitude from some of the more
lofty and pricey homebuilt list$. I'd have a hard time fitting in
with people like that.
Mike C.
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- N
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Template Problem????? |
Hi guys,
I used the photocopy and I realize they are slightly different, but it flies great.
I think as long as they are all the same it doesn't matter. I really don't
think there is enough difference to change the flying qualities. If you want
to plot out the coordinates, fine, have fun! If you want to just stick the
copy down and build a jig around it, fine, have fun!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104736#104736
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Template Problem????? |
I did the same, Don. Just used the photocopy rib template. I've flown
mine and Mike Cuy's Pietenpols and as near as I can tell, they fly the
same.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 4:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Hi guys,
I used the photocopy and I realize they are slightly different, but it
flies great. I think as long as they are all the same it doesn't
matter. I really don't think there is enough difference to change the
flying qualities. If you want to plot out the coordinates, fine, have
fun! If you want to just stick the copy down and build a jig around it,
fine, have fun!
Don Emch
NX899DE
_________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Piet video now on DVD |
Mike,
Since the site doesn't specifically mention the DVD, I'll ask the
obvious question:
Is the DVD the same price as the VHS tape ($20 + $4)?
Bill C.
(gonna have to order a DVD because the old VHS is gettin' worn out)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Template Problem????? |
That's what I like to hear! Did everyone see the COOL Piet on e-bay?
Cheers,
Dave
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 1:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Hi guys,
I used the photocopy and I realize they are slightly different, but it flies
great. I think as long as they are all the same it doesn't matter. I
really don't think there is enough difference to change the flying
qualities. If you want to plot out the coordinates, fine, have fun! If you
want to just stick the copy down and build a jig around it, fine, have fun!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104736#104736
Message 11
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| Subject: | DVD-----try this web site |
Bill C.
GOOD question and yes, same price for DVD as the VHS. Here is a
better web link that sez DVD: http://www.grantmaclaren.com/cuyvideo/
I'm only about 5 years behind the technology curve in entertainment and
educational media formats.
Mike C.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: DVD-----try this web site |
Piet video now on DVDI just may be caught up with the technology
curve...I have it (and Chuck's DVD) on both DVD AND
iPod...hehehehehe...(have had for some time!)
But I WON'T make copies for ANYONE!!! nada! no way! ain't gonna DO
IT! :-)
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 3:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: DVD-----try this web site
Bill C.
GOOD question and yes, same price for DVD as the VHS. Here is a
better web link that sez DVD: http://www.grantmaclaren.com/cuyvideo/
I'm only about 5 years behind the technology curve in entertainment
and educational media formats.
Mike C.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: DVD-----try this web site |
Guys,
I bought Mike's VHS years ago and have viewed it many times. I just placed an
order for the DVD because it's more convenient for me than VHS. If you're in
doubt about buying the tape/DVD, put your fears to rest and buy it. It's well
worth it.
Grover
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
Bill C.
GOOD question and yes, same price for DVD as the VHS. Here is a better web link that sez DVD: http://www.grantmaclaren.com/cuyvideo/
I'm only about 5 years behind the technology curve in entertainment and educational
media formats.
Mike C.
Message 14
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| Subject: | thoughts on videos |
While we are talking documentaries let me remind you all of the good DVD
that Jim Markle mentioned that Captain Smoke'em Chuck Gantzer has
available too. I'm not into selling stuff or trying to make a fast
buck (I did that selling shoes in high school:) but if it can help
builders or is something that Piet enthusiast's can enjoy-- it does help
to fill the fuel tank from time to time.
One added bonus that Chuck and I offer is that our productions are
uninterrupted by rude commercial interruptions. Your wife may interrupt
your viewing or your kids but at least you don't have to see a
commercial for another drug that "may have these 400 side effects."
Mike C.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Emailing: Antique fly-in Brodhead 007 |
OK you Pietenpol purists.
Those of you who haven't been to Brodhead last summer for the Midwest
Antique Airplane Fly-in.
What airfoil do these two planes have?
A. Both are Pietenpol airfoils
B one has a Riblett 30U-612 airfoil
C both have Riblett airfoils
Roman Bukolt
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Antique fly-in Brodhead 007
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet |
As th' wife says "it's amazing how small the world gets".
She talked to her Mom, who has lived in Roundup, Montana for years.
turns out my wife's Uncle Frank Rom used to hang out with David
Comstock along with guys names Dick Staunton and Florian Baldwin, along
with John Liggett who stored the plane for quite some time. these guys
were apparently all buddies who hung around together and worked on that
plane together. She had a few second hand stories to tell. She spoke
with someone who has seen the restoration project and says the kids and
the work they are doing is simply amazing. the spot for the hanger
where the plane will be displayed in Roundup is just across the road
from where my In-laws go to church, and the property is all flagged and
ready to start building. She had also said that she was told that the
wings were longer than the plans specified. Don't know about
that....second/third hand stories, but that's what she said. I'm
fascinated. This is exciting to me, as it has given my wife a bit more
of the Pietenpol fever (she thinks I'm quite crazy, with a CH701 under
construction already).
So, now there's another reason to visit Roundup this summer, besides
just seeing the relatives.
Oh, and we're coming to Broadhead too..staying at the Gasthaus Motel 15
miles away in Monroe, so hope to view lots of Piets in real life and
meet a lot of you!
Tim in Bovey
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
Message 17
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Hi all,
does any one have ideas on using Piano wire for tail braces in lieu of
3/32 cable?
I had planned on the cable, it would have to be more fatigue resistant,
& easier to put around a thimble.
Any history of the wire giving trouble in the long term?
Thanks Graham Hewitt Piet builder from Perth West OZ
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Re Tail bracing |
Graham,
I used 3/32" 7 x 19 stainless steel cable for my tail bracing and it
has been entirely satisfactory for 765 hours of flying. The possibility
for fatigue failure of a solid wire over time was a factor in choosing
cable. Availability of the SS cable "at the right price" was another.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy |
I have, over the years, flown four different Pietenpols for a total of
perhaps 800 hours. Most of this was on wheels using grass runways and
some was on skis. Each of these aircraft (including my own) displayed
very similar characteristics and was easy to fly in relatively calm air,
but was "squirrelly" in wind and turbulence.
Turbulence isn't a real problem until one tries to land. The ground then
becomes a moving target. Under these conditions I always do a wheel
landing because I can maintain full control before, during and after
touchdown. And I generally find wheel landings best on paved runways,
too.
It is not easy to do consistently good 3-point landings, without a
bounce or a skip--even on grass. There is a tendency to overcontrol
during the flare phase of a power-off (engine idling) approach. When I
catch myself doing this, I make a conscious effort to gently begin the
flare a bit sooner and then make small corrections as required. Avoid
making coarse control inputs as much as possible, although they are
necessary in gusty conditions where finesse is out of the question
anyway.
The Pietenpol a good trainer. The DeHavilland Gypsy Moth and Tiger Moth
are less sensitive and easier to land than my Pietenpol. Both are noted
to be good trainers, but in my experience the Pietenpol requires a more
delicate touch.
The usual cure for a lot of landing problems is to use a bit (not much!)
of power on approach and ease it off slowly during the hold-off phase.
And if you mis-judge and bounce, don't get frustrated, Even the birds
miss sometimes!
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
Message 20
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For you expertswith an eagle eye, here's another view of the two planes.
Riblett or Pietenpol. (airfoils that is)?
do not archive
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Antique fly-in Brodhead 005
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: another view |
Roman, it's obviously the one on the _______. It is amazing that the
________ plane's wing looks just like a Pietenpol airfoil.
I'm very interested in hearing how well this airfoil works so get
experimenting.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Bukolt
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: another view
For you expertswith an eagle eye, here's another view of the two
planes. Riblett or Pietenpol. (airfoils that is)?
do not archive
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Antique fly-in Brodhead 005
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Message 22
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The morning we trailered the wing from my house to the hanger was drissling,
and as soon as we got to the airport, we put it on a bathroom scale. The one
piece wing (with 9.7 gal. fiberglass fuel tank and 3/4" Douglas Fir Spars) was
complete, including paint and rigging, ready to install. It weighed 110 lbs.
We mounted it on the waiting fuselage, and I imediately climbed in and
started making airplane noise !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy |
In a message dated 4/2/2007 6:25:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
conceptmodels@tds.net writes:
By the way, I don't
know how much it would influence the landing, but Bill told me to keep only
15 lbs. pressure in my 6 x 6.00 tires.
That's the pressure I use in my 8.00 X 6 tires, too.
Chuck G.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | Re: thoughts on videos |
Hey Mikee !!
Great to see you got all caught up with technology, and put your video on DVD
!! A well built Pietenpol like yours, will easily out live those old VHS
Tapes.
Chuck G.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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