Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:58 AM - Oil Cooling Success (I hope) (Peter W Johnson)
2. 07:49 AM - EBAy peit with flaps. (Steve Eldredge)
3. 09:46 AM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (Tim Willis)
4. 02:02 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (LWATCDR)
5. 02:34 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (DJ Vegh)
6. 02:41 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (walt evans)
7. 02:42 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (Rcaprd@aol.com)
8. 02:52 PM - Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (walt evans)
9. 02:58 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (walt evans)
10. 03:07 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (Steve Ruse)
11. 03:18 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (Steve Ruse)
12. 03:28 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (Roman Bukolt)
13. 03:50 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet[Scanned] (Rob Hart)
14. 04:03 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (walt evans)
15. 05:25 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping (or spinning)a Piet (shad bell)
16. 06:16 PM - leading edge wrap (skellytownflyer)
17. 07:52 PM - Re: leading edge wrap (Roman Bukolt)
18. 08:54 PM - Leading edge rap (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
Message 1
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| Subject: | Oil Cooling Success (I hope) |
Hi Guys,
With some great help from William Wynne (thanks William) I installed a
remote oil cooler underneath the Corvair engine and rebuilt the engine
baffling to provide more efficient engine cooling. I carried out probably
two hours of ground runs at varying times and rpm settings and have now
achieved normal (I think) oil and cylinder head temps.
Over the last couple of days I have had two reasonably short flights (30
minutes each) and temps have been normal. The last flight was three circuits
around the pattern through full power climbs to near idle descents with all
temps in the normal range.
I need to do a flight of an hour or so to confirm that all is well but
things are feeling pretty good.
Check out the web site for some pictures. Look under "Engine Construction" >
"Engine Cooling".
Thanks to William for his time and advice.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
--
5:53 PM
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| Subject: | EBAy peit with flaps. |
There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599
Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try out.
Steve e
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: EBAy peit with flaps. |
If it has the traditional BP-10 airfoil and flaps, "interesting" might be as in
the Chinese curse-- "May you live in interesting times." The combined pitching
moment of the Piet airfoil's undercamber and the added flaps would likely cause
considrable instability. Maybe its builder moved the CG forward more (closer
to 25% from wing LE than 33%) to accommodate. In any event, IMHO, someone
needed to add "test pilot" to their logbook as they lowered the flaps.
I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about this.
Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Eldredge <steve@byu.edu>
>Sent: Apr 17, 2007 8:48 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps.
>
>
>
>There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599
>
>
>
>Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try out.
>
>
>
>Steve e
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: EBAy peit with flaps. |
Yea it could be very interesting. I wonder what would happen as you slowed
down... Sounds like the best be would be to try it with the XPlane program
first, then at altitude with a ballistic chute.
On 4/17/07, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> If it has the traditional BP-10 airfoil and flaps, "interesting" might be
> as in the Chinese curse-- "May you live in interesting times." The combined
> pitching moment of the Piet airfoil's undercamber and the added flaps would
> likely cause considrable instability. Maybe its builder moved the CG
> forward more (closer to 25% from wing LE than 33%) to accommodate. In any
> event, IMHO, someone needed to add "test pilot" to their logbook as they
> lowered the flaps.
>
> I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about
> this.
>
> Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Steve Eldredge <steve@byu.edu>
> >Sent: Apr 17, 2007 8:48 AM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps.
> >
> >
> >
> >There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599
> >
> >
> >
> >Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try out.
> >
> >
> >
> >Steve e
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: EBAy peit with flaps. |
would be fun to build a 33% scale RC Piet and play around with things
like this. One day I plan to scale up my 1/8 scale RC Piet and do such
things. When I retire in about 20 years
check back with me then.... :)
DJ Vegh
veghdesign.com
Mesa, AZ
602.743.5768
"Where there's a will there's a Vegh"
-
----- Original Message -----
From: LWATCDR
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps.
Yea it could be very interesting. I wonder what would happen as you
slowed down... Sounds like the best be would be to try it with the
XPlane program first, then at altitude with a ballistic chute.
On 4/17/07, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
If it has the traditional BP-10 airfoil and flaps, "interesting"
might be as in the Chinese curse-- "May you live in interesting times."
The combined pitching moment of the Piet airfoil's undercamber and the
added flaps would likely cause considrable instability. Maybe its
builder moved the CG forward more (closer to 25% from wing LE than 33%)
to accommodate. In any event, IMHO, someone needed to add "test pilot"
to their logbook as they lowered the flaps.
I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say
about this.
Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Eldredge < steve@byu.edu>
>Sent: Apr 17, 2007 8:48 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps.
>
>
>
>There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number
200100505599
>
>
>
>Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try
out.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: EBAy peit with flaps. |
If I kick my Piet into a slip,,,there is no place I coldn't get into.
It's alot tighter than a 150 with 40 deg of flaps.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps.
There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599
Interestingly it has flaps. that would be interesting to try out.
Steve e
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: EBAy peit with flaps. |
In a message dated 4/17/2007 11:47:34 AM Central Daylight Time,
timothywillis@earthlink.net writes:
I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about this.
Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether.
Putting flaps on a Pietenpol airfoil, is like putting windshield wipers on a
duck's ass !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet |
I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me slips.
Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know crap, But just
thought of having a discussion about slipping .
Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught the
art of slipping an airplane.
(Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is the
max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor said
"good" at a 60 deg steep turn?
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: EBAy peit with flaps. |
Chuck,
Good one!
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps.
In a message dated 4/17/2007 11:47:34 AM Central Daylight Time,
timothywillis@earthlink.net writes:
I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say
about this.
Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether.
Putting flaps on a Pietenpol airfoil, is like putting windshield
wipers on a duck's ass !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's free at AOL.com.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: EBAy peit with flaps. |
Good way to put it Chuck. I don't recall ever being too fast when
landing my Piet. EVER. Even landing on a 1,000' strip is not a
challenge. I once landed in field about 400' across. There was a
long north/south runway, and a very short field that could be used for
east/west landings in crosswinds. The wind was about 15mph from the
east, I had no problem taking off to the south, but preferred to try
landing in 400' than to land with a 15mph direct crosswind. I stopped
in WAY under 400'.
I can't see that you would gain anything with flaps, and you'd lose a
fair amount of useful load. Interesting concept though.
Steve Ruse
Quoting Rcaprd@aol.com:
>
> Putting flaps on a Pietenpol airfoil, is like putting windshield wipers on a
> duck's ass !!
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet |
The Piet is great for aggressive slips...I don't know exactly what
angle I can come down at, but it must be darn near 45 degrees in an
agressive slip. OK, it probably feels steeper than it is, but it is
steeper than I've done in most other planes. This plane is so draggy,
it must be about like flying a Cessna with a 3' parachute tied to the
tail. I probably do a moderate slip on at least half of my landings.
It helps keep the runway in sight.
After probably 100 consecutive hours in my plane with no time in
others, I tried to fly a buddies 150hp Citabria. Great machine, but
when I tried to land, I was way, way too fast. Had to go around. I
got into ground effect, and the stupid thing wouldn't slow down.
Never had that happen in the Piet.
I must've had a good instructor too...I remember the first time I felt
that slight bump in smooth air after circling back through my own
wake. I was surprised that it was still there enough to feel it.
Kind of neat.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting walt evans <waltdak@verizon.net>:
> I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me
> slips. Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know
> crap, But just thought of having a discussion about slipping .
> Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught
> the art of slipping an airplane.
> (Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is
> the max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor
> said "good" at a 60 deg steep turn?
> Walt Evans
> NX140DL
> "No one ever learned anything by talking"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet |
Slipping? I learned to fly only 11 yrs. ago, in a Cessna 150 at a grass
field. My instructor never taught me or even showed me a slip, side or
forward. He also never let me do a touch-and-go, and never had me do an
aborted landing.
Then came my FAA check ride. guess what HE had me do?
Thank God I did slips with radio controled models. I figured, "Here
goes nothin'". At least if I screw up, I hope he can save my _ss.
Turns out, probably by pure luck, I did a side slip just about right or
at least good enough to satisfy him.
Now 11 yrs. later I'm half way through my Tail Wheel endorsement
trainingt in an Aeronca Champ and am having ball doing rather radical
side and forward slips. Pure fun! But! Don't know yet how much my
Pietenpol will like slips. When I try it you can be assured, I'll be at
least two mistakes high.
Roman Bukolt
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet list
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet
I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me slips.
Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know crap, But just
thought of having a discussion about slipping .
Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught the
art of slipping an airplane.
(Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is the
max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor said
"good" at a 60 deg steep turn?
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Message 13
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| Subject: | Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet[Scanned] |
Down here in Australia side slipping is taught as a matter of routine,
as are interminable touch and goes. Side slipping is particularly
useful when the bl*** instructor pulls the throttle at some particularly
inconvenient point in the pattern (is there any other kind?), and then
sits back , smiles, and says "land it"! Same is true of the chipmunk I
did my tailwheel training in.
60 deg turns are also part of the syllabus, as are collision avoidance
turns: ailerons over, full power and PULL!
Rob
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman
Bukolt
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April 2007 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a
Piet[Scanned]
Slipping? I learned to fly only 11 yrs. ago, in a Cessna 150 at a grass
field. My instructor never taught me or even showed me a slip, side or
forward. He also never let me do a touch-and-go, and never had me do an
aborted landing.
Then came my FAA check ride. guess what HE had me do?
Thank God I did slips with radio controled models. I figured, "Here
goes nothin'". At least if I screw up, I hope he can save my _ss.
Turns out, probably by pure luck, I did a side slip just about right or
at least good enough to satisfy him.
Now 11 yrs. later I'm half way through my Tail Wheel endorsement
trainingt in an Aeronca Champ and am having ball doing rather radical
side and forward slips. Pure fun! But! Don't know yet how much my
Pietenpol will like slips. When I try it you can be assured, I'll be at
least two mistakes high.
Roman Bukolt
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans <mailto:waltdak@verizon.net>
To: piet list <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a
Piet
I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me
slips. Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know crap,
But just thought of having a discussion about slipping .
Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been
taught the art of slipping an airplane.
(Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's
is the max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor
said "good" at a 60 deg steep turn?
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet |
Roman,
Good for you.
Two basic things my instructor taught me........................
Say you're going to slip to the left......................
1. Right rudder to the stops. (that's the standard, never let up on
that)
2. left aileron<sp> to the left, use the left aileron as needed to get
PROPER GROUND TRACK.
3. All the time watching the nose pitch. the airspeed indicator will
read funky due to the air going over the pitot at an angle, and not
reading correctly.
You've got to keep the nose pitched down,,,,lots more that normal!!!!
then when you get good over the field,, like 20 feet,,,relax
everyting!!!!
And land as normal
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Bukolt
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet
Slipping? I learned to fly only 11 yrs. ago, in a Cessna 150 at a
grass field. My instructor never taught me or even showed me a slip,
side or forward. He also never let me do a touch-and-go, and never had
me do an aborted landing.
Then came my FAA check ride. guess what HE had me do?
Thank God I did slips with radio controled models. I figured, "Here
goes nothin'". At least if I screw up, I hope he can save my _ss.
Turns out, probably by pure luck, I did a side slip just about right or
at least good enough to satisfy him.
Now 11 yrs. later I'm half way through my Tail Wheel endorsement
trainingt in an Aeronca Champ and am having ball doing rather radical
side and forward slips. Pure fun! But! Don't know yet how much my
Pietenpol will like slips. When I try it you can be assured, I'll be at
least two mistakes high.
Roman Bukolt
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: piet list
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet
I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me
slips. Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know crap,
But just thought of having a discussion about slipping .
Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught
the art of slipping an airplane.
(Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is
the max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor said
"good" at a 60 deg steep turn?
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping (or spinning)a |
Piet
Slips are quite fun in a piet, just like the champ. I think the piet slips a little
better than a champ. It is more like a Cub I think. The piet has plenty
of rudder to drag the side of the fuselage. Just be careful not to get too
slow, Or she could swap ends real quick. (Never happened to me, but I don't want
to spin a pietenpol) As "draggy" as a piet is it will slow down in a hurry.
Don't be scared to try it but DO respect the fact that is a different airplane,
and the first time you try it in a piet you will probably be solo, So as you
say, Stay 3 mistakes high to get the feel of it, then work your way down.
The good news is more than likely unless you are 30mph fast, or 500 ft high on
final on a runway shorter than 3000ft long, you won't even need extra drag to
settle her in and stop. By the way, Has anyone on this list ever done a spin
in a Piet, on purpose or by accident? ......Wonder how fast it recovers?
Shad
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 16
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| Subject: | leading edge wrap |
Have any of you found that the hardware store flashing is a satisfactory quality
for the leading edge wrap. my plans call for .013 thickness and say it will
work. (GN-1 plans.) but haven't checked yet to see what they have to offer.but
last time I lookd at flashing it seems like it was awfully soft. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107661#107661
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: leading edge wrap |
Bill Rewey tried it (hardware Store or lumber yard aluminum flashing ) on
his first Pietenpol and said it was too soft. When the fabric was tightened
it pulled the aluminum down. He recommends you don't use it.
Roman Bukolt
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover@centramedia.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge wrap
> <hanover@centramedia.net>
>
> Have any of you found that the hardware store flashing is a satisfactory
> quality for the leading edge wrap. my plans call for .013 thickness and
> say it will work. (GN-1 plans.) but haven't checked yet to see what they
> have to offer.but last time I lookd at flashing it seems like it was
> awfully soft. Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107661#107661
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Leading edge rap |
I'm surprised al. flashing is too soft. I remember reading once that BHP
used cardboard about the consistency of Quaker oatmeal containers to
cover only the top of the leading edge. Leon S. in Ks.
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