---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/17/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:58 AM - Oil Cooling Success (I hope) (Peter W Johnson) 2. 07:49 AM - EBAy peit with flaps. (Steve Eldredge) 3. 09:46 AM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (Tim Willis) 4. 02:02 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (LWATCDR) 5. 02:34 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (DJ Vegh) 6. 02:41 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (walt evans) 7. 02:42 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (Rcaprd@aol.com) 8. 02:52 PM - Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (walt evans) 9. 02:58 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (walt evans) 10. 03:07 PM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (Steve Ruse) 11. 03:18 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (Steve Ruse) 12. 03:28 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (Roman Bukolt) 13. 03:50 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet[Scanned] (Rob Hart) 14. 04:03 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (walt evans) 15. 05:25 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping (or spinning)a Piet (shad bell) 16. 06:16 PM - leading edge wrap (skellytownflyer) 17. 07:52 PM - Re: leading edge wrap (Roman Bukolt) 18. 08:54 PM - Leading edge rap (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:19 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil Cooling Success (I hope) Hi Guys, With some great help from William Wynne (thanks William) I installed a remote oil cooler underneath the Corvair engine and rebuilt the engine baffling to provide more efficient engine cooling. I carried out probably two hours of ground runs at varying times and rpm settings and have now achieved normal (I think) oil and cylinder head temps. Over the last couple of days I have had two reasonably short flights (30 minutes each) and temps have been normal. The last flight was three circuits around the pattern through full power climbs to near idle descents with all temps in the normal range. I need to do a flight of an hour or so to confirm that all is well but things are feeling pretty good. Check out the web site for some pictures. Look under "Engine Construction" > "Engine Cooling". Thanks to William for his time and advice. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -- 5:53 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. From: "Steve Eldredge" There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599 Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try out. Steve e ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:26 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. If it has the traditional BP-10 airfoil and flaps, "interesting" might be as in the Chinese curse-- "May you live in interesting times." The combined pitching moment of the Piet airfoil's undercamber and the added flaps would likely cause considrable instability. Maybe its builder moved the CG forward more (closer to 25% from wing LE than 33%) to accommodate. In any event, IMHO, someone needed to add "test pilot" to their logbook as they lowered the flaps. I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about this. Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Steve Eldredge >Sent: Apr 17, 2007 8:48 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. > > > >There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599 > > > >Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try out. > > > >Steve e > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:54 PM PST US From: LWATCDR Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. Yea it could be very interesting. I wonder what would happen as you slowed down... Sounds like the best be would be to try it with the XPlane program first, then at altitude with a ballistic chute. On 4/17/07, Tim Willis wrote: > > timothywillis@earthlink.net> > > If it has the traditional BP-10 airfoil and flaps, "interesting" might be > as in the Chinese curse-- "May you live in interesting times." The combined > pitching moment of the Piet airfoil's undercamber and the added flaps would > likely cause considrable instability. Maybe its builder moved the CG > forward more (closer to 25% from wing LE than 33%) to accommodate. In any > event, IMHO, someone needed to add "test pilot" to their logbook as they > lowered the flaps. > > I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about > this. > > Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether. > > Tim in central TX > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Steve Eldredge > >Sent: Apr 17, 2007 8:48 AM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. > > > > > > > >There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599 > > > > > > > >Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try out. > > > > > > > >Steve e > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:24 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. would be fun to build a 33% scale RC Piet and play around with things like this. One day I plan to scale up my 1/8 scale RC Piet and do such things. When I retire in about 20 years check back with me then.... :) DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: LWATCDR To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. Yea it could be very interesting. I wonder what would happen as you slowed down... Sounds like the best be would be to try it with the XPlane program first, then at altitude with a ballistic chute. On 4/17/07, Tim Willis wrote: If it has the traditional BP-10 airfoil and flaps, "interesting" might be as in the Chinese curse-- "May you live in interesting times." The combined pitching moment of the Piet airfoil's undercamber and the added flaps would likely cause considrable instability. Maybe its builder moved the CG forward more (closer to 25% from wing LE than 33%) to accommodate. In any event, IMHO, someone needed to add "test pilot" to their logbook as they lowered the flaps. I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about this. Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Steve Eldredge < steve@byu.edu> >Sent: Apr 17, 2007 8:48 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. > > > >There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599 > > > >Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try out. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:54 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. If I kick my Piet into a slip,,,there is no place I coldn't get into. It's alot tighter than a 150 with 40 deg of flaps. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599 Interestingly it has flaps. that would be interesting to try out. Steve e ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:45 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. In a message dated 4/17/2007 11:47:34 AM Central Daylight Time, timothywillis@earthlink.net writes: I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about this. Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether. Putting flaps on a Pietenpol airfoil, is like putting windshield wipers on a duck's ass !! Chuck G. NX770CG ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:31 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me slips. Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know crap, But just thought of having a discussion about slipping . Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught the art of slipping an airplane. (Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is the max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor said "good" at a 60 deg steep turn? Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:05 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. Chuck, Good one! Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. In a message dated 4/17/2007 11:47:34 AM Central Daylight Time, timothywillis@earthlink.net writes: I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about this. Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether. Putting flaps on a Pietenpol airfoil, is like putting windshield wipers on a duck's ass !! Chuck G. NX770CG ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:51 PM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps. Good way to put it Chuck. I don't recall ever being too fast when landing my Piet. EVER. Even landing on a 1,000' strip is not a challenge. I once landed in field about 400' across. There was a long north/south runway, and a very short field that could be used for east/west landings in crosswinds. The wind was about 15mph from the east, I had no problem taking off to the south, but preferred to try landing in 400' than to land with a 15mph direct crosswind. I stopped in WAY under 400'. I can't see that you would gain anything with flaps, and you'd lose a fair amount of useful load. Interesting concept though. Steve Ruse Quoting Rcaprd@aol.com: > > Putting flaps on a Pietenpol airfoil, is like putting windshield wipers on a > duck's ass !! > > Chuck G. > NX770CG ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:15 PM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet The Piet is great for aggressive slips...I don't know exactly what angle I can come down at, but it must be darn near 45 degrees in an agressive slip. OK, it probably feels steeper than it is, but it is steeper than I've done in most other planes. This plane is so draggy, it must be about like flying a Cessna with a 3' parachute tied to the tail. I probably do a moderate slip on at least half of my landings. It helps keep the runway in sight. After probably 100 consecutive hours in my plane with no time in others, I tried to fly a buddies 150hp Citabria. Great machine, but when I tried to land, I was way, way too fast. Had to go around. I got into ground effect, and the stupid thing wouldn't slow down. Never had that happen in the Piet. I must've had a good instructor too...I remember the first time I felt that slight bump in smooth air after circling back through my own wake. I was surprised that it was still there enough to feel it. Kind of neat. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting walt evans : > I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me > slips. Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know > crap, But just thought of having a discussion about slipping . > Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught > the art of slipping an airplane. > (Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is > the max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor > said "good" at a 60 deg steep turn? > Walt Evans > NX140DL > "No one ever learned anything by talking" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:05 PM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet Slipping? I learned to fly only 11 yrs. ago, in a Cessna 150 at a grass field. My instructor never taught me or even showed me a slip, side or forward. He also never let me do a touch-and-go, and never had me do an aborted landing. Then came my FAA check ride. guess what HE had me do? Thank God I did slips with radio controled models. I figured, "Here goes nothin'". At least if I screw up, I hope he can save my _ss. Turns out, probably by pure luck, I did a side slip just about right or at least good enough to satisfy him. Now 11 yrs. later I'm half way through my Tail Wheel endorsement trainingt in an Aeronca Champ and am having ball doing rather radical side and forward slips. Pure fun! But! Don't know yet how much my Pietenpol will like slips. When I try it you can be assured, I'll be at least two mistakes high. Roman Bukolt do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: piet list Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me slips. Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know crap, But just thought of having a discussion about slipping . Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught the art of slipping an airplane. (Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is the max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor said "good" at a 60 deg steep turn? Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:51 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet[Scanned] From: "Rob Hart" Down here in Australia side slipping is taught as a matter of routine, as are interminable touch and goes. Side slipping is particularly useful when the bl*** instructor pulls the throttle at some particularly inconvenient point in the pattern (is there any other kind?), and then sits back , smiles, and says "land it"! Same is true of the chipmunk I did my tailwheel training in. 60 deg turns are also part of the syllabus, as are collision avoidance turns: ailerons over, full power and PULL! Rob Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman Bukolt Sent: Wednesday, 18 April 2007 6:29 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet[Scanned] Slipping? I learned to fly only 11 yrs. ago, in a Cessna 150 at a grass field. My instructor never taught me or even showed me a slip, side or forward. He also never let me do a touch-and-go, and never had me do an aborted landing. Then came my FAA check ride. guess what HE had me do? Thank God I did slips with radio controled models. I figured, "Here goes nothin'". At least if I screw up, I hope he can save my _ss. Turns out, probably by pure luck, I did a side slip just about right or at least good enough to satisfy him. Now 11 yrs. later I'm half way through my Tail Wheel endorsement trainingt in an Aeronca Champ and am having ball doing rather radical side and forward slips. Pure fun! But! Don't know yet how much my Pietenpol will like slips. When I try it you can be assured, I'll be at least two mistakes high. Roman Bukolt do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: piet list Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me slips. Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know crap, But just thought of having a discussion about slipping . Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught the art of slipping an airplane. (Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is the max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor said "good" at a 60 deg steep turn? Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com This message, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, copy or retain this e-mail or the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. AION Diagnostics, Level 2, 40-48 Subiaco Square Road, Subiaco 6008, Australia, Phone: +61 (8) 6461 9400, Fax: +61 (8) 6461 9499 This message, including any attachments, may contain confidential information and is transmitted for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, disseminate, copy or retain this e-mail or the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by telephone or reply e-mail, and permanently delete this e-mail from your computer system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. AION Diagnostics, Level 2, 40-48 Subiaco Square Road, Subiaco 6008, Australia, Phone: +61 (8) 6461 9400, Fax: +61 (8) 6461 9499 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:13 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet Roman, Good for you. Two basic things my instructor taught me........................ Say you're going to slip to the left...................... 1. Right rudder to the stops. (that's the standard, never let up on that) 2. left aileron to the left, use the left aileron as needed to get PROPER GROUND TRACK. 3. All the time watching the nose pitch. the airspeed indicator will read funky due to the air going over the pitot at an angle, and not reading correctly. You've got to keep the nose pitched down,,,,lots more that normal!!!! then when you get good over the field,, like 20 feet,,,relax everyting!!!! And land as normal Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Roman Bukolt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet Slipping? I learned to fly only 11 yrs. ago, in a Cessna 150 at a grass field. My instructor never taught me or even showed me a slip, side or forward. He also never let me do a touch-and-go, and never had me do an aborted landing. Then came my FAA check ride. guess what HE had me do? Thank God I did slips with radio controled models. I figured, "Here goes nothin'". At least if I screw up, I hope he can save my _ss. Turns out, probably by pure luck, I did a side slip just about right or at least good enough to satisfy him. Now 11 yrs. later I'm half way through my Tail Wheel endorsement trainingt in an Aeronca Champ and am having ball doing rather radical side and forward slips. Pure fun! But! Don't know yet how much my Pietenpol will like slips. When I try it you can be assured, I'll be at least two mistakes high. Roman Bukolt do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: piet list Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet I was taught by an ex P-51 pilot in the 60's, and he taught me slips. Maybe I got some great information, or maybe I don't know crap, But just thought of having a discussion about slipping . Maybe the new guys are not sure , or have never really been taught the art of slipping an airplane. (Wow, they don't even teach steep turns anymore. like 45 deg's is the max). Remember going thru your own wake. And the instructor said "good" at a 60 deg steep turn? Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:23 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone want to talk about slipping (or spinning)a Piet Slips are quite fun in a piet, just like the champ. I think the piet slips a little better than a champ. It is more like a Cub I think. The piet has plenty of rudder to drag the side of the fuselage. Just be careful not to get too slow, Or she could swap ends real quick. (Never happened to me, but I don't want to spin a pietenpol) As "draggy" as a piet is it will slow down in a hurry. Don't be scared to try it but DO respect the fact that is a different airplane, and the first time you try it in a piet you will probably be solo, So as you say, Stay 3 mistakes high to get the feel of it, then work your way down. The good news is more than likely unless you are 30mph fast, or 500 ft high on final on a runway shorter than 3000ft long, you won't even need extra drag to settle her in and stop. By the way, Has anyone on this list ever done a spin in a Piet, on purpose or by accident? ......Wonder how fast it recovers? Shad --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge wrap From: "skellytownflyer" Have any of you found that the hardware store flashing is a satisfactory quality for the leading edge wrap. my plans call for .013 thickness and say it will work. (GN-1 plans.) but haven't checked yet to see what they have to offer.but last time I lookd at flashing it seems like it was awfully soft. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107661#107661 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:56 PM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge wrap Bill Rewey tried it (hardware Store or lumber yard aluminum flashing ) on his first Pietenpol and said it was too soft. When the fabric was tightened it pulled the aluminum down. He recommends you don't use it. Roman Bukolt ----- Original Message ----- From: "skellytownflyer" Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge wrap > > > Have any of you found that the hardware store flashing is a satisfactory > quality for the leading edge wrap. my plans call for .013 thickness and > say it will work. (GN-1 plans.) but haven't checked yet to see what they > have to offer.but last time I lookd at flashing it seems like it was > awfully soft. Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107661#107661 > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:12 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap I'm surprised al. flashing is too soft. I remember reading once that BHP used cardboard about the consistency of Quaker oatmeal containers to cover only the top of the leading edge. Leon S. in Ks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.