Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - latest "BPA News" (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 06:22 AM - Re: EBAy peit with flaps. (hvandervoo@aol.com)
3. 06:23 AM - Mounting motor cycle tires on rims (John Egan)
4. 06:25 AM - Re: latest (Tim Willis)
5. 06:28 AM - Elevator bell crank construction.... (Dave Abramson)
6. 06:50 AM - Re: Leading edge rap (Roman Bukolt)
7. 06:52 AM - Re: Mounting motor cycle tires on rims (Ed G.)
8. 07:13 AM - Doc Mosher's "BPA News" (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
9. 07:14 AM - off-topic: Canadian humor (Oscar Zuniga)
10. 08:37 AM - Re: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal (Steve Glass)
11. 08:44 AM - Subscription info Pietenpol Newsletter (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
12. 09:06 AM - Re: Subscription info Pietenpol Newsletter (HelsperSew@aol.com)
13. 09:33 AM - Re: latest "BPA News" (Gene & Tammy)
14. 09:48 AM - Re: latest "BPA News" (Gene & Tammy)
15. 09:57 AM - A little off topic but I'm sure you've all flown major airlines before ()
16. 10:47 AM - Re: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal (Roman Bukolt)
17. 11:02 AM - Re: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal (Steve Eldredge)
18. 11:17 AM - Re: Riblett and performance (Tim Willis)
19. 11:33 AM - Re: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal (Dave Abramson)
20. 12:09 PM - Re: Riblett and performance (Roman Bukolt)
21. 12:28 PM - Re: Riblett and performance (Tim Willis)
22. 12:38 PM - Re: Mounting motor cycle tires on rims (walt evans)
23. 04:28 PM - Re: Elevator bell crank construction.... (Ben Charvet)
24. 06:07 PM - Re: latest (shad bell)
25. 06:28 PM - Re: latest (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
26. 08:03 PM - Re: Riblett and performance (Roman Bukolt)
27. 08:18 PM - Re: Mounting motor cycle tires on rims (Peter W Johnson)
28. 11:33 PM - Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | latest "BPA News" |
I just got my BPA News in yesterday's mail (the publication that Doc and Dee
Mosher put out). Some of it seems to be a little late, like DJ's classified
ad offering his project for sale (long gone now). Plenty of good pictures,
including the classic photo of Corky with 41CC, Walt Evans, Mike Cuy and
Chuck Gantzer "smokin' em", Don Emch's Piet, and a bunch of others. A short
bit by Paul Poberezny on jury struts.
We do need to send material to Doc. Little tech tips, construction progress
updates, you name it. And Mary Jones has promised to run a short bit on the
repairs to 41CC in the June issue of either Sport Aviation or Sport Pilot,
I'm not sure which. I dropped my subscription to Sport Pilot as it had a
lot of duplication of what was in Sport Aviation.
I installed a modified attach point for the front cockpit shoulder harness
on 41CC, based on an idea in the last issue of the BPA newsletter. I'll
take some photos and send them to Doc but will also put them on my website
for you other guys to see and critique.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EBAy peit with flaps. |
I guess this was an engineering exercise to determine "can it be done" without
common sense asking "why?"
There must be a huge side load on that wing if you slip with flaps extended.
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: timothywillis@earthlink.net
Sent: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps.
If it has the traditional BP-10 airfoil and flaps, "interesting" might be as in
the Chinese curse-- "May you live in interesting times." The combined pitching
moment of the Piet airfoil's undercamber and the added flaps would likely cause
considrable instability. Maybe its builder moved the CG forward more (closer to
25% from wing LE than 33%) to accommodate. In any event, IMHO, someone needed
to add "test pilot" to their logbook as they lowered the flaps.
I'd love to hear what some very experienced Piet fliers will say about this.
Perhaps it is another airfoil altogether.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Eldredge <steve@byu.edu>
>Sent: Apr 17, 2007 8:48 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: EBAy peit with flaps.
>
>
>
>There is an engineless piet for sale on ebay item number 200100505599
>
>
>
>Interestingly it has flaps... that would be interesting to try out.
>
>
>
>Steve e
>
________________________________________________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Mounting motor cycle tires on rims |
Hello Group,
Does anybody have experiance mounting motor cycle tires on motor cycle rims using
typical "home tools"? I built my laced wheels, have tires and tubes, and
need to mount them. I expect, I'll need to make a fixture to hold the wheel
secure first.
Also, I have "TR-6" type valve stems on the inner tube. This is the valve stem
that has exterior threads on the entire length of the stem, and two nuts are
supplied with the stem. When I look at motor cycle wheel assemblies, this
type of stem is often used. Apparently the stem can be held in place on the rim
with the two nuts. My question is "should the stem be positioned as far out
of the rim as possible (if so, I'm not sure why I need a second nut located
inside the rim), or should the stem be located so the inner tube stands away from
the rim interior a little at the stem location (requiring the second nut)?
"
Thank you in advance for any experience you may offer. With your help, I will
soon have a rolling fuselage.
John E
Greenville, Wisconsin
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 4
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Oscar,
I'd love to see your attach points. I have either seen a pic or the actual plane
where the builder had run a cable across between the attachments on the rear
cabanes. He had his shoulder harness attach points on that cable. This got
the attach points up high so that spinal compression in a crash would not be
an issue. This looked very workable, but a little "clanky".
However, if the shoulder harness attach points were welded onto a piece of slightly
bent rigid tube with the proper spacing (10-11" apart?) for the attachments,
and that cable design were run through the tube, that would be a pretty good
solution. Flexible tube over the cable on each end of the rigid tube assembly
would center the rigid tube assembly and its shoulder harness attach points.
With removable chain links on both ends, the cable and harness could be taken
down quickly and stowed, when no passenger is on board. That's a little crude,
but my plan until I see your design. I am looking for something better.
Tim in central TX
====================================
>I installed a modified attach point for the front cockpit shoulder harness
>on 41CC, based on an idea in the last issue of the BPA newsletter. I'll
>take some photos and send them to Doc but will also put them on my website
>for you other guys to see and critique.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Elevator bell crank construction.... |
Hello Everyone!!!!
I am building my Elv. Bellcrank, and was wondering what size clevises are
used (5/16)??? And should I "sleeve" where the clevises attach to the
bellcrank?
(like on the rudder bar pivot bolt 3/8" o.d. tube w/ 5/16 bolt)
Thanks in advance!!!!!!
Dave
http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge rap |
Reference Alum. flashing
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Hardware store aluminum flashing
is too soft. The aluminum from the aircraft catalogs is a stiffer alloy. It
works just fine. That's what Bill Rewey used on the Piet he's been flying
for the last 17 yrs.
Keep in mind, that the front third of an airfoil is where all the
performance comes from so the shape of the airfoil between the ribs can vary
depending on the curve of that aluminum, or plywood, or oatmeal cardboard.
No matter what you use, the plane will fly. Some better that others. The
whole reason that the Riblett airfoil is so much better than the Pietenpol
airfoil is the first 30%. Much deeper and more rounded leading edge
yielding a softer, less critical stall and improved lift because of the
airflow over and under the wing.
Just my 50 cents worth (inflation,ya know!)
Roman Bukolt NX20795
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>
> I'm surprised al. flashing is too soft. I remember reading once that BHP
> used cardboard about the consistency of Quaker oatmeal containers to
> cover only the top of the leading edge. Leon S. in Ks.
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Mounting motor cycle tires on rims |
Hi John...The tires can easily be mounted with hand tools . Just be really
careful not to pinch the tube under what ever you use for a tire lever. The
two nuts go on the outside of the rim. The second nut is a jam nut to keep
the retaining nut from vibrateing loose as the first nut is not supposed to
be very tight against the rim, just snug. You probably know this but spoked
rims need a rubber chafe strip between the rim and the tube to keep the
spoke nipples from punctureing the tube. Have fun. Ed G. .... I'll be at
Sun N Fun tomorrow...YeeeHaw.....
>From: John Egan <johnegan99@yahoo.com>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mounting motor cycle tires on rims
>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hello Group,
>
> Does anybody have experiance mounting motor cycle tires on motor cycle
>rims using typical "home tools"? I built my laced wheels, have tires and
>tubes, and need to mount them. I expect, I'll need to make a fixture to
>hold the wheel secure first.
>
> Also, I have "TR-6" type valve stems on the inner tube. This is the
>valve stem that has exterior threads on the entire length of the stem, and
>two nuts are supplied with the stem. When I look at motor cycle wheel
>assemblies, this type of stem is often used. Apparently the stem can be
>held in place on the rim with the two nuts. My question is "should the
>stem be positioned as far out of the rim as possible (if so, I'm not sure
>why I need a second nut located inside the rim), or should the stem be
>located so the inner tube stands away from the rim interior a little at the
>stem location (requiring the second nut)? "
>
> Thank you in advance for any experience you may offer. With your help, I
>will soon have a rolling fuselage.
>
> John E
> Greenville, Wisconsin
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Doc Mosher's "BPA News" |
I am really happy to see a true Pietenpol enthusiast running the
newsletter again. Doc Mosher
is a good guy and he has done a fine job in resurrecting a pretty lame
newsletter. (no slam against
the Independent Register in Brodhead since they merely compiled things
send to them)
Do we have any contact info Oscar, others, to subscribe ? I have it
at home but not with me here
at work.
Mike C.
Message 9
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| Subject: | off-topic: Canadian humor |
Had to pass along this one from the CorvAircraft list, for all you Canadian
Pieters...
>Saskatchewan? Really flat up that way. I once knew a guy that
>lived there. Poor slob. His wife left him, and he had to watch her
>walkin' away for three days.
do not archive
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal |
Hi Guys
Has a Riblett rib Pietenpol actually flown yet? Does anybody know of the
performance?
The other thing I was thinking is that they must have had really "big" boxes
of oatmeal in the old days.
Steve in Maine
>From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:45:37 -0500
>
><conceptmodels@tds.net>
>
>Reference Alum. flashing
>Sorry, I should have been more specific. Hardware store aluminum flashing
>is too soft. The aluminum from the aircraft catalogs is a stiffer alloy.
>It works just fine. That's what Bill Rewey used on the Piet he's been
>flying for the last 17 yrs.
>Keep in mind, that the front third of an airfoil is where all the
>performance comes from so the shape of the airfoil between the ribs can
>vary depending on the curve of that aluminum, or plywood, or oatmeal
>cardboard.
>No matter what you use, the plane will fly. Some better that others. The
>whole reason that the Riblett airfoil is so much better than the Pietenpol
>airfoil is the first 30%. Much deeper and more rounded leading edge
>yielding a softer, less critical stall and improved lift because of the
>airflow over and under the wing.
>
>Just my 50 cents worth (inflation,ya know!)
>Roman Bukolt NX20795
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:53 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>
>
>>
>>I'm surprised al. flashing is too soft. I remember reading once that BHP
>>used cardboard about the consistency of Quaker oatmeal containers to
>>cover only the top of the leading edge. Leon S. in Ks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Subscription info Pietenpol Newsletter |
Thanks to a strong Pietenpol enthusiast (Dick from Chapter 1279) from
French Valley, California---here is the Piet Newsletter subscription
info.
Mike - BPA, c/o Independent - Register, PO Box 255, Broadhead, WI
53529-0255 $16 one yr, $30 two yr.
Material for publication: BPA, PO Box 3501, Oshkosh, WI 54901
email: bpan@tds.net, web: www.pietenpols.org
<http://www.pietenpols.org/>
Cheers, Dick
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Subscription info Pietenpol Newsletter |
Thanks Mike!
I just sent some pictures to the BPA newsletter!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: latest "BPA News" |
wonder why yours took so long? Got my issue almost a month ago.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: latest "BPA News"
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> I just got my BPA News in yesterday's mail (the publication that Doc and
> Dee Mosher put out). Some of it seems to be a little late, like DJ's
> classified ad offering his project for sale (long gone now). Plenty of
> good pictures, including the classic photo of Corky with 41CC, Walt Evans,
> Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer "smokin' em", Don Emch's Piet, and a bunch of
> others. A short bit by Paul Poberezny on jury struts.
>
> We do need to send material to Doc. Little tech tips, construction
> progress updates, you name it. And Mary Jones has promised to run a short
> bit on the repairs to 41CC in the June issue of either Sport Aviation or
> Sport Pilot, I'm not sure which. I dropped my subscription to Sport Pilot
> as it had a lot of duplication of what was in Sport Aviation.
>
> I installed a modified attach point for the front cockpit shoulder harness
> on 41CC, based on an idea in the last issue of the BPA newsletter. I'll
> take some photos and send them to Doc but will also put them on my website
> for you other guys to see and critique.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: latest "BPA News" |
Oscar I miss spoke. It's only been about three weeks, not a month.
Looking forward to your photos of the modified attach point.
Gene
----- Original Message ----- http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian.
> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | A little off topic but I'm sure you've all flown major |
airlines before
West jet is a Canadian western airline out of Calgary;enjoy!
> > > >West Jet is an Airline with head office situated in Calgary,
Alberta.
> > > >West Jet airline attendants make an effort to make the in-flight
> > > >"safety lecture" and announcements a bit more entertaining.
> > > >
> > > >Here are some real examples that have been heard or reported:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On a West Jet flight. There is no assigned seating, you just sit
> > > >where you want. Passengers were apparently having a hard time
> > > >choosing, when a flight attendant announced, "People, people
> > > >we're not picking out furniture here,
> > > >find a seat and get in it!"
> > > >------------ --------- --
> > > >On another West Jet Flight with a very "senior" flight attendant
> > > >crew, the pilot said, "Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached
cruising
> > > >altitude and will
> > > >be turning down the cabin lights. This is for your comfort and to
> > > >enhance the appearance of your flight attendants."
> > > >------------ --------- ---
> > > >On landing, the stewardess said, "Please be sure to take all of
your
> > > >belongings. If you're going to leave anything, please make sure
it's
> > > >something we'd like to have."
> > > >------------ --------- ---
> > > >"There may be 50 ways to leave your lover, but there are only 4
ways
> > > >out of this airplane."
> > > >------------ --------- --
> > > >"Thank you for flying West Jet Express. We hope you enjoyed
giving us
> > > >the business as much as we enjoyed taking you for a ride"
> > > >------------ --------- ------
> > > >As the plane landed and was coming to a stop at the Vancouver
> > > >airport, a lone voice came over the loudspeaker: "Whoa, big
fella.
> > > >WHOA!"
> > > >------------ --------- ----
> > > >After a particularly rough landing during thunderstorms in
Ontario, a
> > > >flight attendant on a West Jet flight announced, "Please take
care
> > > >when opening the overhead compartments because, after a landing
like
> > > >that, sure as hell everything has shifted."
> > > >------------ --------- --
> > > >From a West Jet Airlines employee: "Welcome aboard West Jet
Flight
> > > >245 to Calgary. To operate your seat belt, insert the metal tab
into
> > > >the buckle, and pull tight. It works just like every other seat
belt;
> > > >and, if you don't know how to operate one, you probably shouldn't
be
> > > >out in public unsupervised. "
> > > >------------ ---------
> > > >"In the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, masks will
descend
> > > >from the ceiling, stop screaming, grab the mask, and pull it over
> > > >your face.
> > > >If you have a small child traveling with you, secure your mask
before
> > > >assisting with theirs. If you are traveling with more than one
small
> > > >child, pick your favorite."
> > > >------------ --------- --
> > > >"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken
clouds,
> > > >but we'll try to have them fixed before we arrive. Thank you, and
> > > >remember, nobody loves you, or your money, more than West Jet
> > > >Airlines."
> > > >------------ --------- ---
> > > >"Your seat cushions can be used for flotation; and in the event
of an
> > > >emergency water landing, please paddle to shore and take them
with
> > > >our compliments. "
> > > >------------ --------- --
> > > >"As you exit the plane, make sure to gather all of your
belongings.
> > > >Anything left behind will be distributed evenly among the flight
> > > >attendants. Please do not leave children or spouses."
> > > >------------ --------- ------
> > > >And from the pilot during his welcome message: "West Jet Airlines
is
> > > >pleased to announce that we have some of the best flight
attendants
> > > >in the industry. Unfortunately, none of them are on this flight!"
> > > >------------ --------- --------
> > > >Heard on West Jet Airlines just after a very hard landing in
> > > >Edmonton; The flight attendant came on the intercom and said,
> > > >"That was quite a bump, and
> > > >I know what y'all are thinking. I'm here to tell you it wasn't
the
> > > >airline's fault, it wasn't the pilot's fault, it wasn't the
flight
> > > >attendant's fault, it was the asphalt."
> > > >------------ --------- ---------
> > > >Overheard on a West Jet Airlines flight into Regina on a
particularly
> > > >windy and bumpy day: During the final approach, the Captain was
> > > >really having to fight it. After an extremely hard landing, the
> > > >Flight Attendant said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Regina.
> > > >Please remain in your seats with
> > > >your seat belts fastened while the Captain taxis what's left of
our
> > > >airplane to the gate!"
> > > >------------ --------- ---------
> > > >Another flight attendant's comment on a less than perfect
landing:
> > > >"We ask you to please remain seated as Captain Kangaroo bounces
us
> > > >to the terminal."
> > > >------------ ---------
> > > >An airline pilot wrote that on this particular flight he had
hammered
> > > >his ship into the runway really hard. The airline had a policy
which
> > > >required the first officer to stand at the door while the
Passengers
> > > >exited, smile, and give them a "Thanks for flying our airline."
> > > >He said that, in light of
> > > >his bad landing, he had a hard time looking the passengers in the
> > > >eye, thinking that someone would have a smart comment. Finally
> > > >everyone had gotten off except for a little old lady walking with
a
> > > >cane. She said, "Sir, do you mind if I ask you a question?"
> > > >"Why, no, Ma'am," said the pilot. "What is it?"
> > > >The little old lady said, "Did we land, or were we shot down?"
> > > >------------ -------
> > > >After a real crusher of a landing in Halifax, the attendant came
on
> > > >with, "Ladies and Gentlemen, please remain in your seats until
> > > >Captain Crash and the Crew have brought the aircraft to a
screeching
> > > >halt against the gate.
> > > >And, once the tire smoke has cleared and the warning bells are
> > > >silenced, we
> > > >will open the door and you can pick your way through the wreckage
to
> > > >the terminal."
> > > >------------ --------- --
> > > >Part of a flight attendant's arrival announcement: "We'd like to
> > > >thank you folks for flying with us today. And, the next time you
get
> > > >the insane urge
> > > >to go blasting through the skies in a pressurized metal tube, we
hope
> > > >you'll think of West Jet Airways."
> > > >------------ --------- --
> > > >Heard on a West Jet Airline flight. "Ladies and gentlemen, if you
> > > >wish to smoke, the smoking section on this airplane is on the
wing.
> > > >If you can light 'em, you can smoke 'em."
> > > >------------ --------- --
> > > >A plane was taking off from the Winnipeg airport. After it
reached a
> > > >comfortable cruising altitude, the captain made an announcement
over
> > > >the intercom, "Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain
speaking.
> > > >Welcome to Flight Number 293, nonstop from Winnipeg to Montreal.
> > > >The weather ahead is good and, therefore, we should have a smooth
and
> > > >uneventful flight. Now sit back and relax.. OH, MY GOD!"
> > > >Silence followed, and after a few minutes, the captain came back
on
> > > >the intercom and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, I am so sorry if I
> > > >scared you earlier. While I was talking to you, the flight
attendant
> > > >accidentally spilled a cup of hot coffee on my lap. You should
see
> > > >the front of my pants!" A passenger yelled: "That's nothing. You
> > > >should see the back of mine!"
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal |
FYI This is Lowell Frank's blue Piet with the Riblett 612 airfoil. I does
outperform the Piets with Piet airfoils.
Roman Bukolt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Has a Riblett rib Pietenpol actually flown yet? Does anybody know of the
> performance?
>
> The other thing I was thinking is that they must have had really "big"
> boxes of oatmeal in the old days.
>
> Steve in Maine
>
>
>>From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:45:37 -0500
>>
>><conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>
>>Reference Alum. flashing
>>Sorry, I should have been more specific. Hardware store aluminum flashing
>>is too soft. The aluminum from the aircraft catalogs is a stiffer alloy.
>>It works just fine. That's what Bill Rewey used on the Piet he's been
>>flying for the last 17 yrs.
>>Keep in mind, that the front third of an airfoil is where all the
>>performance comes from so the shape of the airfoil between the ribs can
>>vary depending on the curve of that aluminum, or plywood, or oatmeal
>>cardboard.
>>No matter what you use, the plane will fly. Some better that others. The
>>whole reason that the Riblett airfoil is so much better than the Pietenpol
>>airfoil is the first 30%. Much deeper and more rounded leading edge
>>yielding a softer, less critical stall and improved lift because of the
>>airflow over and under the wing.
>>
>>Just my 50 cents worth (inflation,ya know!)
>>Roman Bukolt NX20795
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:53 PM
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I'm surprised al. flashing is too soft. I remember reading once that BHP
>>>used cardboard about the consistency of Quaker oatmeal containers to
>>>cover only the top of the leading edge. Leon S. in Ks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as
> $771/month*
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal |
Because of the airfoil or because of the Warner? :0
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman
Bukolt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
FYI This is Lowell Frank's blue Piet with the Riblett 612 airfoil. I
does outperform the Piets with Piet airfoils.
Roman Bukolt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Has a Riblett rib Pietenpol actually flown yet? Does anybody know of
the
> performance?
>
> The other thing I was thinking is that they must have had really "big"
> boxes of oatmeal in the old days.
>
> Steve in Maine
>
>
>>From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:45:37 -0500
>>
>><conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>
>>Reference Alum. flashing
>>Sorry, I should have been more specific. Hardware store aluminum
flashing
>>is too soft. The aluminum from the aircraft catalogs is a stiffer
alloy.
>>It works just fine. That's what Bill Rewey used on the Piet he's been
>>flying for the last 17 yrs.
>>Keep in mind, that the front third of an airfoil is where all the
>>performance comes from so the shape of the airfoil between the ribs
can
>>vary depending on the curve of that aluminum, or plywood, or oatmeal
>>cardboard.
>>No matter what you use, the plane will fly. Some better that others.
The
>>whole reason that the Riblett airfoil is so much better than the
Pietenpol
>>airfoil is the first 30%. Much deeper and more rounded leading edge
>>yielding a softer, less critical stall and improved lift because of
the
>>airflow over and under the wing.
>>
>>Just my 50 cents worth (inflation,ya know!)
>>Roman Bukolt NX20795
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:53 PM
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I'm surprised al. flashing is too soft. I remember reading once that
BHP
>>>used cardboard about the consistency of Quaker oatmeal containers to
>>>cover only the top of the leading edge. Leon S. in Ks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low
as
> $771/month*
>
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
arch=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett and performance |
Roman,
As you may recall, I am an advocate of the Riblett airfoil, at least for guys not
already challenged by CG issues (fat boys, like me). I think anyone of moderate
weight building anew should strongly consider the Riblett airfoil. The
counterpoint is "pure Piet," stick to the design, build to the plans, etc. But
I'd like to focus on performance.
However, with this in mind, as Chuck G. pointed out (I think) doesn't Lowell's
plane also have an over-100hp radial on it? I think the discussion I recall was
comparative climbing rate or how much rollout on takeoff. Higher power, of
course, would distort any comparative results.
You can have another discussion, as well, about the apparent possible higher cruising
speed with a Riblett, and/or the better controlability of the landing in
a smoother stall. All these seem possible with a Riblett, as with the NACA
2412 or 4412 airfoils. Of course, plopping 'em down in really short fields, the
BP-10 Piet should come out way ahead. (As Chuck says, it's like a notch of
flaps all the time.)
Is anyone aware of an apples-to-apples test, Piet vs. Riblett, with the same or
comparable engines-- e.g., when each was equipped with an A-65 or a Corvair engine?
Does anyone have a Riblett airfoil on an A-65?
Please forgive me if I have my facts or past discussions wrong.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>Sent: Apr 18, 2007 11:47 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
>
>FYI This is Lowell Frank's blue Piet with the Riblett 612 airfoil. It does
>outperform the Piets with Piet airfoils.
>
>Roman Bukolt
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:36 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
>>
>> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Hi Guys
>>
>> Has a Riblett rib Pietenpol actually flown yet? Does anybody know of the
>> performance? Steve in Maine
>>
>>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal |
I would say the WARNER!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
Because of the airfoil or because of the Warner? :0
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman
Bukolt
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
FYI This is Lowell Frank's blue Piet with the Riblett 612 airfoil. I
does outperform the Piets with Piet airfoils.
Roman Bukolt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Has a Riblett rib Pietenpol actually flown yet? Does anybody know of
the
> performance?
>
> The other thing I was thinking is that they must have had really "big"
> boxes of oatmeal in the old days.
>
> Steve in Maine
>
>
>>From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:45:37 -0500
>>
>><conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>
>>Reference Alum. flashing
>>Sorry, I should have been more specific. Hardware store aluminum
flashing
>>is too soft. The aluminum from the aircraft catalogs is a stiffer
alloy.
>>It works just fine. That's what Bill Rewey used on the Piet he's been
>>flying for the last 17 yrs.
>>Keep in mind, that the front third of an airfoil is where all the
>>performance comes from so the shape of the airfoil between the ribs
can
>>vary depending on the curve of that aluminum, or plywood, or oatmeal
>>cardboard.
>>No matter what you use, the plane will fly. Some better that others.
The
>>whole reason that the Riblett airfoil is so much better than the
Pietenpol
>>airfoil is the first 30%. Much deeper and more rounded leading edge
>>yielding a softer, less critical stall and improved lift because of
the
>>airflow over and under the wing.
>>
>>Just my 50 cents worth (inflation,ya know!)
>>Roman Bukolt NX20795
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:53 PM
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I'm surprised al. flashing is too soft. I remember reading once that
BHP
>>>used cardboard about the consistency of Quaker oatmeal containers to
>>>cover only the top of the leading edge. Leon S. in Ks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low
as
> $771/month*
>
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&se
arch=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Riblett and performance |
I'll have a Riblett on my corvair Piet when it's finished, one day in the
future.
The radial on Lowell's plane isn't a Warner. I don't recall what it is. I
do know that it is a 90hp.
I also know that when I saw it take off, the pilot didn't even go to full
throttle.
Other than that, If I remember right, Lowell did fly that same plane and
cengine with a Piet airfoil, but I may be mistaken.
But as Chucky says, ya gotta admit, with the Piet you can drop'm in a pretty
small airpatch. Ever see films of a goony bird land? Its like that. PLOP!
I'd be fun to watch a Piet land with Tundra tires! Boing! Boing! boing!
etc. etc.etc.
Roman Bukolt
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance
> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Roman,
>
> As you may recall, I am an advocate of the Riblett airfoil, at least for
> guys not already challenged by CG issues (fat boys, like me). I think
> anyone of moderate weight building anew should strongly consider the
> Riblett airfoil. The counterpoint is "pure Piet," stick to the design,
> build to the plans, etc. But I'd like to focus on performance.
>
> However, with this in mind, as Chuck G. pointed out (I think) doesn't
> Lowell's plane also have an over-100hp radial on it? I think the
> discussion I recall was comparative climbing rate or how much rollout on
> takeoff. Higher power, of course, would distort any comparative results.
>
> You can have another discussion, as well, about the apparent possible
> higher cruising speed with a Riblett, and/or the better controlability of
> the landing in a smoother stall. All these seem possible with a Riblett,
> as with the NACA 2412 or 4412 airfoils. Of course, plopping 'em down in
> really short fields, the BP-10 Piet should come out way ahead. (As Chuck
> says, it's like a notch of flaps all the time.)
>
> Is anyone aware of an apples-to-apples test, Piet vs. Riblett, with the
> same or comparable engines-- e.g., when each was equipped with an A-65 or
> a Corvair engine? Does anyone have a Riblett airfoil on an A-65?
>
> Please forgive me if I have my facts or past discussions wrong.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>Sent: Apr 18, 2007 11:47 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
>>
>>FYI This is Lowell Frank's blue Piet with the Riblett 612 airfoil. It
>>does
>>outperform the Piets with Piet airfoils.
>>
>>Roman Bukolt
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:36 AM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge rap Riblett and oatmeal
>>>
>>> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>> Hi Guys
>>>
>>> Has a Riblett rib Pietenpol actually flown yet? Does anybody know of
>>> the
>>> performance? Steve in Maine
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett and performance |
Roman,
Thanks for the quick reply. His radial should be comparable in power to a Corvair,
then, and that might allow a good comparison to a Corvair with a BP-10 foil.
Of course, the torque curves could be quite different. Your project when
finished will be a better metric.
How about asking Lowell if he had a Piet airfoil on it first, and if he has any
comparative data?
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>Sent: Apr 18, 2007 1:09 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance
>
>
>I'll have a Riblett on my corvair Piet when it's finished, one day in the
>future.
>The radial on Lowell's plane isn't a Warner. I don't recall what it is. I
>do know that it is a 90hp.
>I also know that when I saw it take off, the pilot didn't even go to full
>throttle.
>Other than that, If I remember right, Lowell did fly that same plane and
>cengine with a Piet airfoil, but I may be mistaken.
>
>But as Chucky says, ya gotta admit, with the Piet you can drop'm in a pretty
>small airpatch. Ever see films of a goony bird land? Its like that. PLOP!
>I'd be fun to watch a Piet land with Tundra tires! Boing! Boing! boing!
>etc. etc.etc.
>
>Roman Bukolt
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting motor cycle tires on rims |
Also John,
Put a small dot of paint on the rim and right next to it on the rubber tire.
This will show at a glance if the tire is sliding around the rim from the
quick starting of the tire on landing. I had a valve stem get sheared off on
a Fisher Biplane. Wasn't nice, had to have a friend fly back for another
tube.
Just look at the dots in preflight.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mounting motor cycle tires on rims
>
>
> Hi John...The tires can easily be mounted with hand tools . Just be really
> careful not to pinch the tube under what ever you use for a tire lever.
> The two nuts go on the outside of the rim. The second nut is a jam nut to
> keep the retaining nut from vibrateing loose as the first nut is not
> supposed to be very tight against the rim, just snug. You probably know
> this but spoked rims need a rubber chafe strip between the rim and the
> tube to keep the spoke nipples from punctureing the tube. Have fun. Ed
> G. .... I'll be at Sun N Fun tomorrow...YeeeHaw.....
>
>>From: John Egan <johnegan99@yahoo.com>
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mounting motor cycle tires on rims
>>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Hello Group,
>>
>> Does anybody have experiance mounting motor cycle tires on motor cycle
>> rims using typical "home tools"? I built my laced wheels, have tires and
>> tubes, and need to mount them. I expect, I'll need to make a fixture to
>> hold the wheel secure first.
>>
>> Also, I have "TR-6" type valve stems on the inner tube. This is the
>> valve stem that has exterior threads on the entire length of the stem,
>> and two nuts are supplied with the stem. When I look at motor cycle
>> wheel assemblies, this type of stem is often used. Apparently the stem
>> can be held in place on the rim with the two nuts. My question is
>> "should the stem be positioned as far out of the rim as possible (if so,
>> I'm not sure why I need a second nut located inside the rim), or should
>> the stem be located so the inner tube stands away from the rim interior a
>> little at the stem location (requiring the second nut)? "
>>
>> Thank you in advance for any experience you may offer. With your help,
>> I will soon have a rolling fuselage.
>>
>> John E
>> Greenville, Wisconsin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank construction.... |
5/16 seems way to large. I have 1/4 inch holes in mine simply because
that was the size turnbuckles I had. Most light airplanes that I have
looked at use 3/16 bolts through the turnbuckle at the terminal end. I
made mine to the plans with the two thin sheets formed to an airfoil and
then edge welded, with no sleeve.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Got to meet Doc Mosher today at Sun-N-Fun!
Dave Abramson wrote:
> Hello Everyone!!!!
>
> I am building my Elv. Bellcrank, and was wondering what size clevises
> are used (5/16)??? And should I sleeve where the clevises attach to
> the bellcrank?
>
> (like on the rudder bar pivot bolt 3/8 o.d. tube w/ 5/16 bolt)
>
> Thanks in advance!!!!!!
>
> Dave
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
>* *
>
Message 24
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On NX92GB, we used AN eye bolts to hold the center section to the cabanes (rear
cabanes). They are rated at the same sheer load as regular AN-4 bolts or AN-5's
(I can't remember what size they are). These provide an easy way to attach
passenger shoulder harness. The plan is to run a piece of cable from side to
side with quick disconnect type fittings, then attatch the harness. I can't
say we have it all figured out though, we have not hauled passengers yet, or
installed the harness for flight. Just another Idea if any one wants to try it.
Shad
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 25
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Photos please.....
Ken
shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
On NX92GB, we used AN eye bolts to hold the center section to the cabanes (rear
cabanes). They are rated at the same sheer load as regular AN-4 bolts or
AN-5's (I can't remember what size they are). These provide an easy way to attach
passenger shoulder harness. The plan is to run a piece of cable from side
to side with quick disconnect type fittings, then attatch the harness. I can't
say we have it all figured out though, we have not hauled passengers yet,
or installed the harness for flight. Just another Idea if any one wants to try
it.
Shad
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett and performance |
Roger, Wilco, and Out!
Roman
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance
> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Roman,
> Thanks for the quick reply. His radial should be comparable in power to a
> Corvair, then, and that might allow a good comparison to a Corvair with a
> BP-10 foil. Of course, the torque curves could be quite different. Your
> project when finished will be a better metric.
>
> How about asking Lowell if he had a Piet airfoil on it first, and if he
> has any comparative data?
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>Sent: Apr 18, 2007 1:09 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance
>>
>><conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>
>>I'll have a Riblett on my corvair Piet when it's finished, one day in the
>>future.
>>The radial on Lowell's plane isn't a Warner. I don't recall what it is.
>>I
>>do know that it is a 90hp.
>>I also know that when I saw it take off, the pilot didn't even go to full
>>throttle.
>>Other than that, If I remember right, Lowell did fly that same plane and
>>cengine with a Piet airfoil, but I may be mistaken.
>>
>>But as Chucky says, ya gotta admit, with the Piet you can drop'm in a
>>pretty
>>small airpatch. Ever see films of a goony bird land? Its like that.
>>PLOP!
>>I'd be fun to watch a Piet land with Tundra tires! Boing! Boing! boing!
>>etc. etc.etc.
>>
>>Roman Bukolt
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Mounting motor cycle tires on rims |
John,
I have Motor cycle rims on my Piet. I must admit I cheat and let a motor
cycle shop put the tyres on for me. Very cheap and I know it=92s done
correctly. Other than that you need a couple of long tyre irons and
plenty
of soapy water. Advice I have had regarding the valve stem is to only
use
one nut. This is placed against the valve stem cap leaving the whole of
the
valve stem visible. The valve stem is therefore free to move a bit if
the
tyre/tube flexes a bit too much on landing.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Egan
Sent: Wednesday, 18 April 2007 11:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mounting motor cycle tires on rims
Hello Group,
Does anybody have experiance mounting motor cycle tires on motor cycle
rims
using typical "home tools"? I built my laced wheels, have tires and
tubes,
and need to mount them. I expect, I'll need to make a fixture to hold
the
wheel secure first.
Also, I have "TR-6" type valve stems on the inner tube. This is the
valve
stem that has exterior threads on the entire length of the stem, and two
nuts are supplied with the stem. When I look at motor cycle wheel
assemblies, this type of stem is often used. Apparently the stem can be
held in place on the rim with the two nuts. My question is "should the
stem
be positioned as far out of the rim as possible (if so, I'm not sure why
I
need a second nut located inside the rim), or should the stem be located
so
the inner tube stands away from the rim interior a little at the stem
location (requiring the second nut)? "
Thank you in advance for any experience you may offer. With your help, I
will soon have a rolling fuselage.
John E
Greenville, Wisconsin
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cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
--
18/04/2007
7:39 AM
--
18/04/2007
7:39 AM
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone want to talk about slipping a Piet |
Go here;
http://westcoastpiet.com/Videos/AirCamper-Slip.mpeg
You may have to use the Realplayer option to see it
properly.
Clif
Roman,
Good for you.
Two basic things my instructor taught me........................
Say you're going to slip to the left......................
1. Right rudder to the stops. (that's the standard, never let up on
that)
2. left aileron<sp> to the left, use the left aileron as needed to
get PROPER GROUND TRACK.
3. All the time watching the nose pitch. the airspeed indicator will
read funky due to the air going over the pitot at an angle, and not
reading correctly.
You've got to keep the nose pitched down,,,,lots more that normal!!!!
then when you get good over the field,, like 20 feet,,,relax
everyting!!!!
And land as normal
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
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