---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/20/07: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:05 AM - Re: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? () 2. 04:21 AM - Hoe saw (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 3. 05:06 AM - Re Rudder/TaFor riggingilwheel cables (Graham and Robyn) 4. 05:18 AM - Re: Re Rudder/TaFor riggingilwheel cables () 5. 07:55 AM - Re: Riblett and performance (Ed G.) 6. 08:01 AM - Tail attachment (santiago morete) 7. 08:31 AM - Re: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? (Jonathan Scholl) 8. 08:34 AM - Re: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? () 9. 09:08 AM - Re: Hoe saw (Steve Glass) 10. 10:02 AM - Re: Riblett and performance (Tim Willis) 11. 12:53 PM - lowell frank's stats (Douwe Blumberg) 12. 01:57 PM - Re: lowell frank's stats (Tim Willis) 13. 02:13 PM - Re: lowell frank's stats (Charles Tracy) 14. 02:19 PM - Re: lowell frank's stats (Roman Bukolt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? From: I'm putting one on my Franklin soon but I'm not sure which cylinder to put it on.I'm only using one temperature gauge. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers Sent: April 19, 2007 5:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? OK, I've finally got a little money and I'm putting my instrument panel together. For the engine, I figure the oil pressure and temp gauges are essential. And of course the tach. But I'm wondering if you veteran A-65 pilots like to keep tabs on the cylinder head temp? My mentor (my Dad) says he never had much use for one, but it seems like it might come in handy. Also, anyone have experience cutting the holes with a common hole saw? Does that work, if you back up the plywood, or does it chew up the backside anyway? Maybe a fly cutter is the way to go? Thanks in advance Ken, making slow progress in Austin, Texas ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:45 AM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hoe saw I've had good luck with a hole saw by backing the work with a wood block. Also you can start your hole from one side, then finish it from the other side. that works well when free hading with a hand drill. Fly cutters are great but only in a drill press. Leon S. In Ks. wishing I were in Fl. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:33 AM PST US From: "Graham and Robyn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Rudder/TaFor riggingilwheel cables For rigging tail wheel steering cables, what are your views, to avoid excess weight; instead of running cables all the way from the rear rudder pedals to the tail wheel, what about splicing by Nico Press the tail wheel cables to the rudder cables just before they exit the side of the fuse? Would this cause any side loads on the rudder cable with possible lost motion? Thanks Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Rudder/TaFor riggingilwheel cables From: I don't think so if you include the springs with the connection at the back on the tail wheel butterfly connection. It may make it feel heavier in flight to move the rudder but still doable as long as the springs aren't too tight or heavy duty.. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham and Robyn Sent: April 20, 2007 7:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Rudder/TaFor riggingilwheel cables For rigging tail wheel steering cables, what are your views, to avoid excess weight; instead of running cables all the way from the rear rudder pedals to the tail wheel, what about splicing by Nico Press the tail wheel cables to the rudder cables just before they exit the side of the fuse? Would this cause any side loads on the rudder cable with possible lost motion? Thanks Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:25 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance If you saw Lowell's prop you would instantly realize that there is no compareing his Warner to a Corvair. His prop made me take a double take up at Brodhead a couple years ago. I don't know how long it is but it's longer than the normal 72"s and the blades are about 8"to 10" wide if I remember right. His Warner must put out gobbs of torque which makes the compareing of his wing's his climb performance to a Piet wing foil apples and oranges. Ed G. Sun N Fun was great yesterday! >From: "Roman Bukolt" >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:03:07 -0500 > > > >Roger, Wilco, and Out! > >Roman >Do not archive >----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" > >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:28 PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance > > >> >> >>Roman, >>Thanks for the quick reply. His radial should be comparable in power to a >>Corvair, then, and that might allow a good comparison to a Corvair with a >>BP-10 foil. Of course, the torque curves could be quite different. Your >>project when finished will be a better metric. >> >>How about asking Lowell if he had a Piet airfoil on it first, and if he >>has any comparative data? >> >>Tim in central TX >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Roman Bukolt >>>Sent: Apr 18, 2007 1:09 PM >>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance >>> >>> >>> >>>I'll have a Riblett on my corvair Piet when it's finished, one day in the >>>future. >>>The radial on Lowell's plane isn't a Warner. I don't recall what it is. >>>I >>>do know that it is a 90hp. >>>I also know that when I saw it take off, the pilot didn't even go to full >>>throttle. >>>Other than that, If I remember right, Lowell did fly that same plane and >>>cengine with a Piet airfoil, but I may be mistaken. >>> >>>But as Chucky says, ya gotta admit, with the Piet you can drop'm in a >>>pretty >>>small airpatch. Ever see films of a goony bird land? Its like that. >>>PLOP! >>>I'd be fun to watch a Piet land with Tundra tires! Boing! Boing! >>>boing! >>>etc. etc.etc. >>> >>>Roman Bukolt >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:06 AM PST US From: santiago morete Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail attachment I have seen in the archives a question about the attachment of the horizontal stab to the fuselage (from Rick Holland) that intererst me, and since it doesn't have an answer I will post it again. The two bottom fittings are attached to each other with two horizontal bolts through the fuselage tailpost, however the fuselage sides are angled. Did you guys makes 4 wedged shaped washers out of something so the bolt head and nut seat flat or add 2 wood wedges for the fittings to sit on? I will use bolts, no rivets. Another question, I have seen Piets with the horizontal stab bolted at the leading edge, main spar or both. I plan to bolt it trough the main beam. What would be recommendable? Thanks Saludos Santiago --------------------------------- Pregunt. Respond. Descubr. Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:07 AM PST US From: Jonathan Scholl Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? just try to pick the cyl with least airflow. Typically a rear one! Often found on number 3. harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Im putting one on my Franklin soon but Im not sure which cylinder to put it on.Im only using one temperature gauge. --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers Sent: April 19, 2007 5:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? OK, I've finally got a little money and I'm putting my instrument panel together. For the engine, I figure the oil pressure and temp gauges are essential. And of course the tach. But I'm wondering if you veteran A-65 pilots like to keep tabs on the cylinder head temp? My mentor (my Dad) says he never had much use for one, but it seems like it might come in handy. Also, anyone have experience cutting the holes with a common hole saw? Does that work, if you back up the plywood, or does it chew up the backside anyway? Maybe a fly cutter is the way to go? Thanks in advance Ken, making slow progress in Austin, Texas http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:28 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? From: Thanks,I'll try that one. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Scholl Sent: April 20, 2007 11:30 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Is a CHT gauge necessary, or just nice? just try to pick the cyl with least airflow. Typically a rear one! Often found on number 3. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:59 AM PST US From: "Steve Glass" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hoe saw I to would rather cut with a hole saw than a flycutter. The hole is not as crisp but the cut is safer and more controllable. "HOE saw" careful look what happened to Imus. Steve in Maine >From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hoe saw >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 06:21:25 -0500 > > >I've had good luck with a hole saw by backing the work with a wood >block. Also you can start your hole from one side, then finish it from >the other side. that works well when free hading with a hand drill. Fly >cutters are great but only in a drill press. Leon S. In Ks. wishing I >were in Fl. > > _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:48 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance It sounds like we should hope that Lowell at one time merely changed his wing and left his engine alone, for at least a short period of apples-to-apples comparison among his many iterations. Otherwise, I am very impressed with his many adaptations of his Piet. This last one with that prop and engine sounds like a STOL. BP himself would have loved to see that one. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: "Ed G." >Sent: Apr 20, 2007 8:54 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance > > > >If you saw Lowell's prop you would instantly realize that there is no >compareing his Warner to a Corvair. His prop made me take a double take up >at Brodhead a couple years ago. I don't know how long it is but it's longer >than the normal 72"s and the blades are about 8"to 10" wide if I remember >right. His Warner must put out gobbs of torque which makes the compareing of >his wing's his climb performance to a Piet wing foil apples and oranges. >Ed G. Sun N Fun was great yesterday! > > >>From: "Roman Bukolt" >>To: >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance >>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:03:07 -0500 >> >> >> >>Roger, Wilco, and Out! >> >>Roman >>Do not archive >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" >> >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:28 PM >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance >> >> >>> >>> >>>Roman, >>>Thanks for the quick reply. His radial should be comparable in power to a >>>Corvair, then, and that might allow a good comparison to a Corvair with a >>>BP-10 foil. Of course, the torque curves could be quite different. Your >>>project when finished will be a better metric. >>> >>>How about asking Lowell if he had a Piet airfoil on it first, and if he >>>has any comparative data? >>> >>>Tim in central TX >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Roman Bukolt >>>>Sent: Apr 18, 2007 1:09 PM >>>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett and performance >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I'll have a Riblett on my corvair Piet when it's finished, one day in the >>>>future. >>>>The radial on Lowell's plane isn't a Warner. I don't recall what it is. >>>>I >>>>do know that it is a 90hp. >>>>I also know that when I saw it take off, the pilot didn't even go to full >>>>throttle. >>>>Other than that, If I remember right, Lowell did fly that same plane and >>>>cengine with a Piet airfoil, but I may be mistaken. >>>> >>>>But as Chucky says, ya gotta admit, with the Piet you can drop'm in a >>>>pretty >>>>small airpatch. Ever see films of a goony bird land? Its like that. >>>>PLOP! >>>>I'd be fun to watch a Piet land with Tundra tires! Boing! Boing! >>>>boing! >>>>etc. etc.etc. >>>> >>>>Roman Bukolt >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:50 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: lowell frank's stats Spoke with Lowell Frank today, and he gave me his best estimates of the differences between his plane with the Piet wing and the same plane now with the Ribblett 612. His plane is exactly the same, except the new wing is two feet shorter. He did this because the new wing has more lift. He says he recommends people leave the original length now to get extra lift and he doesn't think it'll slow things down much at all. Most of you know, but his plane has a 90hp Lambert on it, which it did with the Piet wing too. He's also had a model B on it, a Funk engine, a 145 Warner and now the lambert. He says the most noticible difference is in the top speed, which he says increased 15 mph Stall dropped about 5 mph He claims the climb almost doubled it is much more responsive to throttle changes now. Hope this helps. I'd like to purchase some Ribblett drawings, can someone get me his contact info? Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:37 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lowell frank's stats Douwe, Those are impressive differences. I would think that with an A-65 there might not be that much difference in cruising speed. Re the drawing, Roman Bukolt has scaled out the Riblett 613.5, which Riblett himself says is the best for the Piet. (It has a taller camber on the upper surface than the 612.) IMHO, the 613.5 should accentuate the benefits that Lowell found of the Riblett 612 over the BP-10. Roman sells the full scale drawings of the 613.5 for $10 or $15-- I forget which-- postage paid. You might contact him. I found it to be a very workable drawing. (I am not building that airfoil now, however.) Roman also has the plots for the 613.5, which are NOT included in Riblett's last edition of his "GA Airfoils." I don't recall if he has the plots for the 612, but I do, if you need them, as I got them from my copy of Riblett's book. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Douwe Blumberg >Sent: Apr 20, 2007 1:51 PM >To: pietenpolgroup >Subject: Pietenpol-List: lowell frank's stats > >Spoke with Lowell Frank today, and he gave me his best estimates of the differences between his plane with the Piet wing and the same plane now with the Ribblett 612. > >His plane is exactly the same, except the new wing is two feet shorter. He did this because the new wing has more lift. He says he recommends people leave the original length now to get extra lift and he doesn't think it'll slow things down much at all. > >Most of you know, but his plane has a 90hp Lambert on it, which it did with the Piet wing too. He's also had a model B on it, a Funk engine, a 145 Warner and now the lambert. > >He says the most noticible difference is in the top speed, which he says increased 15 mph > >Stall dropped about 5 mph > >He claims the climb almost doubled > >it is much more responsive to throttle changes now. > >Hope this helps. I'd like to purchase some Ribblett drawings, can someone get me his contact info? > >Thanks > >Douwe ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:53 PM PST US From: Charles Tracy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lowell frank's stats I ran across this link while looking at the Airplane PDQ web site. They have a long list of airfoils that you can download for free in autocad. I believe the Ribblett 612 is one of them. This might help in developing a rib. Of coarse it would be easier if someone has a layout with rib framing already. Download the zip file at this address: http://www.davincitechnologies.com/AirfoilOptimizerStdAirfoils.htm Charlie Douwe Blumberg wrote: Spoke with Lowell Frank today, and he gave me his best estimates of the differences between his plane with the Piet wing and the same plane now with the Ribblett 612. His plane is exactly the same, except the new wing is two feet shorter. He did this because the new wing has more lift. He says he recommends people leave the original length now to get extra lift and he doesn't think it'll slow things down much at all. Most of you know, but his plane has a 90hp Lambert on it, which it did with the Piet wing too. He's also had a model B on it, a Funk engine, a 145 Warner and now the lambert. He says the most noticible difference is in the top speed, which he says increased 15 mph Stall dropped about 5 mph He claims the climb almost doubled it is much more responsive to throttle changes now. Hope this helps. I'd like to purchase some Ribblett drawings, can someone get me his contact info? Thanks Douwe --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:12 PM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lowell frank's stats FYI I have the full size drawings of both the Riblett 612 and the Riblett 613.5 available. They are $10.00 each including shipping and handling. BTW 24 Piet people so far have ordered the 612 and two ordered both the 612 anf the 613.5. Roman Bukolt (Not Roman Gukolt) 6505 Urich Terr. Madison, Wi. 53719 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lowell frank's stats > > > Douwe, > > Those are impressive differences. I would think that with an A-65 there > might not be that much difference in cruising speed. > > Re the drawing, Roman Bukolt has scaled out the Riblett 613.5, which > Riblett himself says is the best for the Piet. (It has a taller camber on > the upper surface than the 612.) IMHO, the 613.5 should accentuate the > benefits that Lowell found of the Riblett 612 over the BP-10. > > Roman sells the full scale drawings of the 613.5 for $10 or $15-- I forget > which-- postage paid. You might contact him. I found it to be a very > workable drawing. (I am not building that airfoil now, however.) > > Roman also has the plots for the 613.5, which are NOT included in > Riblett's last edition of his "GA Airfoils." I don't recall if he has the > plots for the 612, but I do, if you need them, as I got them from my copy > of Riblett's book. > > Tim in central TX > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Douwe Blumberg >>Sent: Apr 20, 2007 1:51 PM >>To: pietenpolgroup >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: lowell frank's stats >> >>Spoke with Lowell Frank today, and he gave me his best estimates of the >>differences between his plane with the Piet wing and the same plane now >>with the Ribblett 612. >> >>His plane is exactly the same, except the new wing is two feet shorter. >>He did this because the new wing has more lift. He says he recommends >>people leave the original length now to get extra lift and he doesn't >>think it'll slow things down much at all. >> >>Most of you know, but his plane has a 90hp Lambert on it, which it did >>with the Piet wing too. He's also had a model B on it, a Funk engine, a >>145 Warner and now the lambert. >> >>He says the most noticible difference is in the top speed, which he says >>increased 15 mph >> >>Stall dropped about 5 mph >> >>He claims the climb almost doubled >> >>it is much more responsive to throttle changes now. >> >>Hope this helps. I'd like to purchase some Ribblett drawings, can someone >>get me his contact info? >> >>Thanks >> >>Douwe > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.