---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/24/07: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:12 AM - Re: Tail attachment (Rick Holland) 2. 06:13 AM - Re: GN-1 Roll Call (Gene Beenenga) 3. 06:19 AM - front cockpit shoulder harness attach (Oscar Zuniga) 4. 07:01 AM - Re: GN-1 Roll Call () 5. 10:39 AM - Re: front cockpit shoulder harness attach (Tim Willis) 6. 02:40 PM - wire wheels (Dan Loegering) 7. 03:05 PM - Re: wire wheels (Jim Markle) 8. 03:07 PM - Re: wire wheels (Michael Groah) 9. 06:19 PM - Re: wire wheels (John Egan) 10. 09:12 PM - Sun N Fun pictures (cgomez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:00 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail attachment Hey Santiago Attached a couple pictures of the ply wedges I added to mine to get two parallel surfaces for the two bolts. Rick On 4/20/07, santiago morete wrote: > > I have seen in the archives a question about the attachment of the > horizontal stab to the fuselage (from Rick Holland) that intererst me, an d > since it doesn't have an answer I will post it again. > The two bottom fittings are attached to each other with two > horizontal bolts through the fuselage tailpost, however the fuselage > sides are angled. Did you guys makes 4 wedged shaped washers out of > something so the bolt head and nut seat flat or add 2 wood wedges for > the fittings to sit on? > I will use bolts, no rivets. > Another question, I have seen Piets with the horizontal stab bolted at th e > leading edge, main spar or both. I plan to bolt it trough the main beam. > What would be recommendable? Thanks > Saludos > > Santiago > > ------------------------------ > *Pregunt=E1. Respond=E9. Descubr=ED.* > Todo lo que quer=EDas saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, > est=E1 en *Yahoo! Respuestas* (Beta). > > * > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:03 AM PST US From: Gene Beenenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Roll Call Jim, I am not near buy, but feel we "GN-1 builders" need to hang together. I have come to the conclusion that there are those "purist" out there, (not all) who don't see "the advance variation" of the "father and fore runner" of home built aircraft as "true". Still, GN-1 builders have needs, interests and a willingness and desire to build a good safe project. Anyway, i am 80% done and as the ole saying goes, 80% to go. Still, my wood frame fuselage is pretty well done, the Corvair needs to be built and my wing are done. everything needs to be covered. mine sets on a cub type gear, with brakes and tail wheel. Where are you, with your project? Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Jim Cooper >Sent: Apr 23, 2007 8:27 AM >To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server >Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Roll Call > >My partner, Tom Schildt, and I have been working on our GN-1, purchased from South Lakeland Sport Aviation in Florida about 5 years ago. Included in the purchase were the wings & tail feathers (uncovered), 4130 steel fuselage, and landing gear. Also purchased separately a C-85 engine. Our shop is north of Abbeville, Louisiana. Have met with Corky in Shreveport and his wonderful wife, Isabelle several times. They are a true inspiration. Look forward to meeting Wayne Poole in Denham Springs, Louisiana, who I see from the list is also building a GN-1, and any other nearby builders. > > >Jim Cooper >blugoos1@hughes.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:22 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: front cockpit shoulder harness attach All of the points that Chris raises are valid. My feeling was that the new setup is an improvement over what was there before, not that it was an ideal solution. I will note, however, than in the nose-over the rear cabanes remained intact and it is the X-braces for those cabanes that the attach point is anchored to. The cables are 1/8" and are tensioned pretty well, but if something bends or buckles they could go slack, yes. The best solution that I've seen is the wishbone-style welded tube fitting that the UK Pietenpolers pioneered. It installs inside the boot cowl that encloses the flight instruments and is a really sturdy piece of work. One example is G-BYZY, one photo example is http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=6 Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Roll Call From: Even old Pietenpol himself wasn't a purist.He would change things to get the best,otherwise he would still have flown the Jenny he orinally started with and not have changed anything.Why change from an old model A engine to anything else etc.Need I say more? Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Beenenga Sent: April 24, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Roll Call Jim, I am not near buy, but feel we "GN-1 builders" need to hang together. I have come to the conclusion that there are those "purist" out there, (not all) who don't see "the advance variation" of the "father and fore runner" of home built aircraft as "true". Still, GN-1 builders have needs, interests and a willingness and desire to build a good safe project. Anyway, i am 80% done and as the ole saying goes, 80% to go. Still, my wood frame fuselage is pretty well done, the Corvair needs to be built and my wing are done. everything needs to be covered. mine sets on a cub type gear, with brakes and tail wheel. Where are you, with your project? Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Jim Cooper >Sent: Apr 23, 2007 8:27 AM >To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server >Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Roll Call > >My partner, Tom Schildt, and I have been working on our GN-1, purchased from South Lakeland Sport Aviation in Florida about 5 years ago. Included in the purchase were the wings & tail feathers (uncovered), 4130 steel fuselage, and landing gear. Also purchased separately a C-85 engine. Our shop is north of Abbeville, Louisiana. Have met with Corky in Shreveport and his wonderful wife, Isabelle several times. They are a true inspiration. Look forward to meeting Wayne Poole in Denham Springs, Louisiana, who I see from the list is also building a GN-1, and any other nearby builders. > > >Jim Cooper >blugoos1@hughes.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:54 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front cockpit shoulder harness attach Gene, Thanks for your good input. Oscar has answered your questions about damage in the hard landing, indicating that his "imoroved BPA shoulder harness assembly" would likely have worked quite well in his hard landing. (We all agree some things might well have been stretched.) He has also provided the pix of an alternative, the more robust UK shoulder harness attachments. But you have raised a question about the survivability of the cabanes and the front cabane-to-firewall connection. I'd like to add to that. Oscar's plane had a hard landing, but William Wynne's had a crash landing (steeply from 70 feet up), and the Heim connectors or whatever he had, designed to resist PULL in flight, would not and could not resist COMPRESSION in a crash. Wynne has suggested building the assembly with tubing and stout connections to prevent BOTH push and pull. This is more important, as he has pointed out, when the gas tank is in the wing, as things can move, leak, and flame, as they did to him. As you may know, he had several surgeries as a result of burns. Ideally we might go with something more adustable and less permanent-- Heim and lighter tubing-- to TEST the final location of the wing for CG purposes, and then install a more permanent and stouter final assembly. Both this tubing forward and the tubing of the two shoulder harnesses' attachments add weight that BP did not have. Of course, as others have pointed out, we are supposed to make the planes both light and strong enough to fly well, not strong and heavy enough to crash well. To me, though, these few pounds seem like good ones. These are the last safety measures you have in a crash. I might have enough appropriate tubing on hand to estimate the total weight. Maybe someone else already knows. In any event, I'd like to hear both data and opinions of more established Piet builders/fliers. Thanks already to you and Oscar for this discussion. Regards, Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Catdesigns >Sent: Apr 23, 2007 9:37 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front cockpit shoulder harness attach > > >I mean no offence Oscar, but does anyone else see problems with this setup? >I would be worried that in the even to sudden deceleration (crash) the wing >along with the cross wires the harness is attached to would go forward. >Correct me if I am wrong here Oscar, but I believe this is what happened to >41CC when it crashed. These pictures Oscar took show it what I am talking >about. Alternatively, they might have failed due to compression when the >plane flipped over. > >http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PB130005.JPG > >http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PB130010.JPG > >To avoid this the front diagonal down tubes (not on the drawings) would need >to be large diameter and the connection between these and the front wing >supports would have to be very strong. In Oscars case the front connection >on the right brace broke at the Heim joint. ><<<< MORE TEXT FOLLOWED IN ORIGINAL>>> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels From: "Dan Loegering" I know there has been a lot of discussion in the past about where to purchase parts for wire wheels and such. I am just wondering what is an average cost per wheel ready to roll if you went the route of buying motorcycle rims, making a hub, buying spokes, buying tubes and tires, etc... I am leaning towards getting the kit from here... http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76 and am just wondering if their price tag is in the ball park. ($495.00 for both) Thanks! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:17 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels Invoices for tires/tubes/rims/spokes/etc Those invoices are for 2 sets, (enough for 2 projects) so divide all the costs by 1/2: http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=67 on mykitplane.com...in the files section. jm -----Original Message----- >From: Dan Loegering >Sent: Apr 24, 2007 4:39 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels > > >I know there has been a lot of discussion in the past about where to purchase parts for wire wheels and such. I am just wondering what is an average cost per wheel ready to roll if you went the route of buying motorcycle rims, making a hub, buying spokes, buying tubes and tires, etc... > >I am leaning towards getting the kit from here... http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76 and am just wondering if their price tag is in the ball park. ($495.00 for both) > >Thanks! > >Dan Loegering >Fargo, ND > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:42 PM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels Another question might be what is the weight difference? The Airdromeaeroplanes.com kit is 36 pounds for two complete wheels with tires and tubes. What do some of the other complete wire wheels weigh? Dan Loegering wrote: I know there has been a lot of discussion in the past about where to purchase parts for wire wheels and such. I am just wondering what is an average cost per wheel ready to roll if you went the route of buying motorcycle rims, making a hub, buying spokes, buying tubes and tires, etc... I am leaning towards getting the kit from here... http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76 and am just wondering if their price tag is in the ball park. ($495.00 for both) Thanks! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:55 PM PST US From: John Egan Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels Dan, I recently finished my wheels. Here is my information on them. 2.50" wide x 19" Drop Center Chrome Rim, 40 hole $65 each Chrome Spokes $40 per set 4130 Tubing for Hubs 2" o.d. x 0.120" wall $7 per foot 4130 Flat Steel for flanges 0.090" x 9"x9" $5 Oil Impregnated Bearings $20 Total for two wheels ~ $225 Tires, tubes and rim bands $45 each Paint for hubs $05 Total cost of completed wheels w/ tires (for both) ~ $320 disclaimer: These have not flown (or landed) yet. I also considered the Aerodrome wheels. When I inquired, I learned that the hubs were made for a slightly smaller diameter axle, and an 18" internal sleeve is inserted inside each axle end to increase the strength or stiffness. I am not questioning the design, only sharing information in the event you already have the axle. I made the phone call and they were very kind. I simply chose to fabricate my own. john in Wisconsin Dan Loegering wrote: I know there has been a lot of discussion in the past about where to purchase parts for wire wheels and such. I am just wondering what is an average cost per wheel ready to roll if you went the route of buying motorcycle rims, making a hub, buying spokes, buying tubes and tires, etc... I am leaning towards getting the kit from here... http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76 and am just wondering if their price tag is in the ball park. ($495.00 for both) Thanks! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun N Fun pictures From: "cgomez" Just got back from Sun N Fun and wanted to share some pics. The only Piet i saw was the one in the museum. http://sportplanes.tv/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109108#109108 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.