Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:04 AM - carb ice, triangle installed ? (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 06:57 AM - Re: carb ice, triangle installed ? (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
3. 06:59 AM - wood gear question (Dan Loegering)
4. 07:16 AM - Re: Pietenpol Vs. Flybaby cockpit (Rick Holland)
5. 07:33 AM - Re: wood gear question (Phillips, Jack)
6. 07:56 AM - Wood gear (HelsperSew@aol.com)
7. 08:27 AM - Douglas Fir longerons (Steve Singleton)
8. 12:39 PM - Re: Douglas Fir longerons ()
9. 01:32 PM - Douglas Fir longerons (Oscar Zuniga)
10. 03:02 PM - Re: wood gear question (Dale Johnson)
11. 03:02 PM - Re: Douglas Fir longerons (VAHOWDY@aol.com)
12. 03:13 PM - perfect landings (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
13. 04:50 PM - Re: Douglas Fir longerons ()
14. 07:07 PM - Tail attachment (santiago morete)
15. 07:09 PM - Finger faster than brain (santiago morete)
16. 07:10 PM - Re: Carb Ice (kmordecai001@comcast.net)
17. 07:25 PM - Re: wood gear question (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
18. 07:35 PM - Re: Douglas Fir longerons (Dick Navratil)
19. 07:39 PM - Re: Tail attachment (Rick Holland)
20. 08:25 PM - Re: Finger faster than brain (DJ Vegh)
21. 09:19 PM - Re: wood gear question (Catdesigns)
22. 09:28 PM - Re: Douglas Fir longerons (Steve Singleton)
23. 10:32 PM - Re: Pietenpol Vs. Flybaby cockpit (Clif Dawson)
24. 10:35 PM - Re: wood gear question (Clif Dawson)
25. 11:31 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
26. 11:36 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | carb ice, triangle installed ? |
Mikeee wrote-
>Inside the muff where your front and rear pipes Y together
>there should be a steel triangle that fits in that Y
Got it. I had my welder add a tab to each down-pipe and then bolted a
triangular piece of flat steel plate onto the tabs to force the incoming air
to flow around the plate and pipes instead of just shooting past them into
the carb air box. It works great. I can open up the heat muff and take a
photo if anyone cares to see it (should have done that prior to reinstalling
the assembly anyway)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: carb ice, triangle installed ? |
Oscar,
Now........ you know better then to lead a horse to water!.....Of course we can
use a photo! A picture is worth a thousand words.....tee-hee-hee
Ken H
Fargo, ND
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
Mikeee wrote-
>Inside the muff where your front and rear pipes Y together
>there should be a steel triangle that fits in that Y
Got it. I had my welder add a tab to each down-pipe and then bolted a
triangular piece of flat steel plate onto the tabs to force the incoming air
to flow around the plate and pipes instead of just shooting past them into
the carb air box. It works great. I can open up the heat muff and take a
photo if anyone cares to see it (should have done that prior to reinstalling
the assembly anyway)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon.
http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 3
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Subject: | wood gear question |
Getting close to cutting the wood for the gear and just have a couple of questions.
First - it is spruce that is used for the legs correct? And just ash for the bottom
block...
Second - what is the purpose for angling the bottom ash blocks back so they intersect
at the tail wheel (if you were to extend them all the way back...)? I
understand the reasoning for angling them for clearance when the plane is in 3-point
attitude, but would there be any reason to not keep the ash block in line
with the wheels (not angled inward towards the tail wheel)? It would make
the bottom cuts much easier to make without the inward cant.
Third - do you glue the bottom joints from the legs to the ash, or do you rely
on the metal side plates to attach these pieces?
Thanks!
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Vs. Flybaby cockpit |
Just happen to have the FlyBaby plans in front of me Ryan. Outside width is
24 1/4". The longerons are 3/4x3/4" so the inside width is actually 1/4 to
1/2" wider than the Piet. Was fairly simple making mine 2" wider than plans,
just cost a little weight and an extra sheet of 1/8" ply.
Rick
On 4/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever sat in a Bowers Flybaby cockpit and how does it compare in
> size to the Piet? I remember it being a little tight. I'd hate to add the
> extra weight just for 2".
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Ryan
>
> ------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM->
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 5
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Subject: | wood gear question |
Hi Dan,
I don't know what others have done, but I can answer for what I did on
my landing gear.
The plans call for spruce, and there is no need to use anything heavier.
I made mine of 1/4" planks of spruce laminated together, partly for
strength and partly becasue I wanted to run a channel down the middle of
the strut to hide my hydraulic brake lines (a plane of this type didn't
have haydraulic lines hanging out everywhere in 1929). I found a side
benefit of having the glue lines was it made it much easier to sand the
struts to a uniform airfoil shape - the glue lines were straight when
the surface was uniform. The "V-Blocks" are ash, because they take a
pounding from the axle and ash absorbs shock better than any other wood
(which is why they make baseball bats out of it).
The purpose for angling the blocks toward the tail will become apparent
if you try to make them parallel. I didn't realize they needed to be
angled and went through several board feet of wood (fortunately, it was
pine - I recommend making practice pieces first before committing to
expensive spruce). I could never get the fit right at both the fuselage
and the V-blocks. Finally I made a jig with strings representing the
struts and realized I need to angle the V-blocks to make everything line
up. It is just a coincidence that the angle required is very close to
pointing toward the tailwheel.
You can probably glue the V-blocks to the struts. I chose not to, to
make it easier to thread my brake lines through. The steel plates are
strong enough and glue is not necessary.
The landing gear geometry is the single most difficult part of building
this airplane, if you are using the straight axle gear. I don't know if
the split type gear is any easier, but I know that once you get through
this part, the rest will be easy.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Loegering
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear question
--> <danl@odayequipment.com>
Getting close to cutting the wood for the gear and just have a couple of
questions.
First - it is spruce that is used for the legs correct? And just ash
for the bottom block...
Second - what is the purpose for angling the bottom ash blocks back so
they intersect at the tail wheel (if you were to extend them all the way
back...)? I understand the reasoning for angling them for clearance
when the plane is in 3-point attitude, but would there be any reason to
not keep the ash block in line with the wheels (not angled inward
towards the tail wheel)? It would make the bottom cuts much easier to
make without the inward cant.
Third - do you glue the bottom joints from the legs to the ash, or do
you rely on the metal side plates to attach these pieces?
Thanks!
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
_________________________________________________
Message 6
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|
Dan,
I don't think it is physically possible to make those ash blocks in line
with the line-of-flight. If it is I sure could not figure it out. The reason
is that the fuselage starts to taper back before you get to the back leg
attach point. I suppose it really could be done, but the result would be
misalignment of the back leg with the ash block. In other words the back leg would
end up sitting "crooked" on top of the ash block. It would take a better man
than I to figure it out if it can be done.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 7
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Subject: | Douglas Fir longerons |
Hi everyone- I bought a 16ft 2x6 douglas fir that i thought might work
for longerons but it only has 5 to 6 growth rings pr in. It's a very
nice looking board but am wondering if the 5-6 rings an in. is enough.
Thanks for the help. Steve Singleton
-----
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Douglas Fir longerons |
I believe 8 rings/inch is the minimum standard, sorry.
Ben
>
> From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton@cvalley.net>
> Date: 2007/05/01 Tue AM 10:25:16 EST
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douglas Fir longerons
>
> Hi everyone- I bought a 16ft 2x6 douglas fir that i thought might work for longerons
but it only has 5 to 6 growth rings pr in. It's a very nice looking board
but am wondering if the 5-6 rings an in. is enough. Thanks for the help. Steve
Singleton
> -----
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Douglas Fir longerons |
Although the ring count doesn't quite come up to spec, I would not reject
the idea out of hand. The longerons on a Piet are not dainty pieces
(they're 1x1) and Doug Fir is stronger than spruce, so if it were me I think
I'd look to see how straight and clear the planks are before discarding the
idea and the planks.
The thing about the wood between the rings is that it is softer as the ring
spacing increases (wetter season?).
If it were wing spars, no. Not even if I were The Fisherman II. And my
opinion on this subject is worth as much as the thin air that the internet
is made of ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Interest Rates NEAR 39yr LOWS! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,299/mo - Calculate
new payment
Message 10
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Subject: | wood gear question |
Dan
Question #1 The drawing calles for spruce. But we used ash for the whole
landing gear.If you make perfect landings use spruce
Question #2 I don't know.
Question #3 Rely on the metal side plates.Glue won't hold on the end grain.
Dale
> [Original Message]
> From: Dan Loegering <danl@odayequipment.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 5/1/2007 9:03:27 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear question
>
<danl@odayequipment.com>
>
> Getting close to cutting the wood for the gear and just have a couple of
questions.
>
> First - it is spruce that is used for the legs correct? And just ash for
the bottom block...
>
> Second - what is the purpose for angling the bottom ash blocks back so
they intersect at the tail wheel (if you were to extend them all the way
back...)? I understand the reasoning for angling them for clearance when
the plane is in 3-point attitude, but would there be any reason to not keep
the ash block in line with the wheels (not angled inward towards the tail
wheel)? It would make the bottom cuts much easier to make without the
inward cant.
>
> Third - do you glue the bottom joints from the legs to the ash, or do you
rely on the metal side plates to attach these pieces?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dan Loegering
> Fargo, ND
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Douglas Fir longerons |
You could satisfy your concerns with a strength test. Hang a weight from a
piece of spruce and then from your fir. One test is worth 100 engineers.
Howdy
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 12
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Subject: | perfect landings |
Good post, Dale.
I can vouch for good clean spruce gear legs and ash bottom pieces as I
have made some real
ground-smasher landings with no damage.
On the gluing of the ash pieces---I roughed them up good with 100 grit
or so paper and glued them
with T-88 to the spruce legs and they have held beautifully. Don't
clamp so tight as to squeeze
the glue all out though.
Mike C.
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Douglas Fir longerons |
One engineer to set up your test right is worth 10,000 tests that give answers
to questions you didn't know you asked.
---- VAHOWDY@aol.com wrote:
> You could satisfy your concerns with a strength test. Hang a weight from a
> piece of spruce and then from your fir. One test is worth 100 engineers.
> Howdy
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 14
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|
Ed and Rick, thanks for the past answers. We glue two small plywood wedges as
suggested. Today we bolt the empenage to the fuselage, no problems.
Attached a couple of pictures, the second one is the elevator stop (1/8 aluminum
plate), not a new design but I like the simplicity and light weight of this
device.
Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
Pregunt. Respond. Descubr.
Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
Message 15
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Subject: | Finger faster than brain |
Yep, I forgot the pictures
---------------------------------
Pregunt. Respond. Descubr.
Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
Message 16
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|
Pieters,
I ran into serious carb icing a while back while climbing out. This is an A-75
with Stromberg carb & Aeronca stacks. The weather was cool and humid, worst case
icing conditions.
Yes, they're not supposed to do that at WOT, I know, but immediate application
of carb heat cleared it up. Climbed on up to a safe altitude over the field
at full throttle, turned carb heat off while at WOT, and the problem recurred
in less than 30 seconds. Not the slow loss of power described in the textbooks,
but roughness followed by loss of several hundred rpm within seconds. Once again,
carb heat cleared it up almost instantly.
The real root cause of the problem? I believe it was Mogas containing ethanol,
saturated with water.
I had noticed a loss of static rpm during runup, maybe 75-100 rpm, but it was smooth
and sounded good, so I blamed it on cold oil. After being seriously spooked
by the carb icing at WOT, I landed & rechecked the gascolator, but no free
water was present. Went to the EAA website and followed the instructions on
how to make an ethanol tester with a tall skinny bottle, and found that the local
BP/Amoco 87 octane did indeed contain ethanol. Since the gasoline/ethanol
absorbed only a small quantity of the test water initially put in the bottle,
I'm assuming that it was already saturated with water.
Drained the tank, refilled with 100LL, and gained over 100 rpm static. No icing
at WOT or cruise since then, but the weather has warmed up as well. The Mogas
went into the lawn mower...............
I'm sticking with Avgas from now on. It has it's own issues, but at least it's
consistent from batch to batch, unlike the local gas stations.
Dave Mordecai
NX520SF
Panacea, FL
Oscar wrote:
> Taxied to the hangar and looked under the cowling. Frost on the carb
> body and manifold, and lots of condensation on the carb and manifold
> areas. Carb ice. I didn't have a lot of time to give it another shot
> and had other tasks to do so I did them and put the airplane away.
> Thirty-five minutes after shutting down the engine, there was still
> condensation on the carb.
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Pieters,</DIV>
<DIV>I ran into serious carb icing a while back while climbing out. This is an
A-75 with Stromberg carb & Aeronca stacks. The weather was cool and
humid, worst case icing conditions.</DIV>
<DIV> Yes, they're not supposed to do that at WOT, I know, but immediate application
of carb heat cleared it up. Climbed on up to a safe altitude
over the field at full throttle, turned carb heat off while at WOT, and the problem
recurred in less than 30 seconds. Not the slow loss of power described in
the textbooks, but roughness followed by loss of several hundred rpm within
seconds. Once again, carb heat cleared it up almost instantly.</DIV>
<DIV>The real root cause of the problem? I believe it was Mogas containing
ethanol, saturated with water. </DIV>
<DIV>I had noticed a loss of static rpm during runup, maybe 75-100 rpm, but it
was smooth and sounded good, so I blamed it on cold oil. After being seriously
spooked by the carb icing at WOT, I landed & rechecked the gascolator,
but no free water was present. Went to the EAA website and followed
the instructions on how to make an ethanol tester with a tall skinny bottle,
and found that the local BP/Amoco 87 octane did indeed contain ethanol. Since
the gasoline/ethanol absorbed only a small quantity of the test
water initially put in the bottle, I'm assuming that it was already saturated
with water. </DIV>
<DIV>Drained the tank, refilled with 100LL, and gained over 100 rpm static.
No icing at WOT or cruise since then, but the weather has warmed up as
well. The Mogas went into the lawn mower...............</DIV>
<DIV>I'm sticking with Avgas from now on. It has it's own issues, but at
least it's consistent from batch to batch, unlike the local gas stations.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dave Mordecai</DIV>
<DIV>NX520SF</DIV>
<DIV>Panacea, FL</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oscar wrote:</DIV>
<DIV>> Taxied to the hangar and looked under the cowling. Frost on the carb
<BR>> body and manifold, and lots of condensation on the carb and manifold
<BR>> areas. Carb ice. I didn't have a lot of time to give it another shot
<BR>> and had other tasks to do so I did them and put the airplane away. <BR>>
Thirty-five minutes after shutting down the engine, there was still <BR>>
condensation on the carb. <BR>> <BR></DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: wood gear question |
In a message dated 5/1/2007 10:34:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com writes:
Hi Dan,
I don't know what others have done, but I can answer for what I did on
my landing gear.
The plans call for spruce, and there is no need to use anything heavier.
I made mine of 1/4" planks of spruce laminated together, partly for
strength and partly becasue I wanted to run a channel down the middle of
the strut to hide my hydraulic brake lines (a plane of this type didn't
have haydraulic lines hanging out everywhere in 1929).
Is this your gear, Jack. Looks great, whoever it belongs to.
Ron
do not archive
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Douglas Fir longerons |
Steve
My opinion is that I wouldn't use it, but don't discard it either.
There are plenty of places where it's not structurally as important
where it can be used. Keep shopping the lumber bins and check the 1x4
t&g flooring at the lumber yards.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Singleton
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douglas Fir longerons
Hi everyone- I bought a 16ft 2x6 douglas fir that i thought might work
for longerons but it only has 5 to 6 growth rings pr in. It's a very
nice looking board but am wondering if the 5-6 rings an in. is enough.
Thanks for the help. Steve Singleton
-----
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Tail attachment |
Didn't get any pictures Santiago.
On 5/1/07, santiago morete <moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>
> Ed and Rick, thanks for the past answers. We glue two small plywood
> wedges as suggested. Today we bolt the empenage to the fuselage, no
> problems.
> Attached a couple of pictures, the second one is the elevator stop (1/8
> aluminum plate), not a new design but I like the simplicity and light wei
ght
> of this device.
> Saludos
>
> Santiago
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *Pregunt=E1. Respond=E9. Descubr=ED.*
> Todo lo que quer=EDas saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> est=E1 en *Yahoo! Respuestas* (Beta).
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Finger faster than brain |
I absolutely love the elevator travel stop! VERY nice!
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: wood gear question |
Dan
Q: First - it is spruce that is used for the legs correct? And just ash for
the bottom block...
A: Yes, and it's what I used.
Q: Second - what is the purpose for angling the bottom ash blocks back so
they intersect at the tail wheel
A: By angling the ask blocks inward it allows the front gear leg to lie
within the plane of the rear gear leg. If you do not angle the ash block in
ward the rear gear leg will not sit squarely on the block no matter how you
cut it. Don't assume that angling it towards the tail wheel will be the
correct angle. You need to adjust so it aligns with the rear gear leg and
the front gear leg. It just so happens this is about an angle to the tail
wheel. The attached pictures shows my landing gear, upside down, the front
gear leg is toward you. The vertical block the string is against in the
inside edge of the ash block location. As you can see, to get the gear
legs to line up in the same plane, the ash block needed to be angled
inwards. However, the top view shows that on my setup the angle isn't quite
pointing at the tail wheel (the string points at the tail wheel).
Q: Third - do you glue the bottom joints from the legs to the ash, or do you
rely on the metal side plates to attach these pieces?
A: I don't plan on it and do not think you need to.
If you can wait, soon I will post how I built my wood gear to my web site
(still writing it up). It worked well for me and, although time consuming,
it was rather simple to cut the gear legs accurately.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Douglas Fir longerons |
Thanks for the opinions fellows. I'll do a load test on a 4ft 1x1in of
the spruce and of the 5 ring pr in fir and let you know what happens.
Looks like i go back and try to find a better board. Steve Singleton
-----
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Vs. Flybaby cockpit |
Make a mockpit! That will answer all your questions.
http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
Clif
Was fairly simple making mine 2" wider than plans, just cost a little
weight and an extra sheet of 1/8" ply.
Rick
On 4/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt@yahoo.com> wrote:
Has anyone ever sat in a Bowers Flybaby cockpit and how does it
compare in size to the Piet? I remember it being a little tight. I'd
hate to add the extra weight just for 2".
Thanks,
-Ryan
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: wood gear question |
I've used fir as it is readily available to me. The grain count
is more than 36 because the tighter the grain the easier it is
to carve smooth rounded shapes and deal with the end
grain trimming that is neccessary to have a good fit at the
fuselage end.
Don't fight the angle of the Ash block. Just make it fit the
ends of the legs firmly and smoothly. Don't forget, an awful
lot of it is going to be hidden behind and under bungee cords
and axle tube.
The bottom cuts are much easier than the fuselage ends. :-)
No glue on the leg/block joint. I stuck a gyproc through
there into each leg just to hold the assembly together
while fitting the plates.
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol3.html
Clif
> First - it is spruce that is used for the legs correct? And just ash for
> the bottom block...
>
> Second - what is the purpose for angling the bottom ash blocks back so
> they intersect at the tail wheel (if you were to extend them all the way
> back...)?
It would make the bottom cuts much easier to make without the inward cant.
>
> Third - do you glue the bottom joints from the legs to the ash, or do you
> rely on the metal side plates to attach these pieces?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dan Loegering
> Fargo, ND
>
>
> --
> 2:57 PM
>
>
Message 25
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Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 26
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|
Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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