Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice (Phillips, Jack)
2. 04:19 AM - Re: wood gear question (Phillips, Jack)
3. 04:53 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice (Gene & Tammy)
4. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: Carb Ice (Phillips, Jack)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: Finger faster than brain (hvandervoo@aol.com)
6. 07:26 AM - Re: Pietenpol Vs. Flybaby cockpit (Rick Holland)
7. 01:22 PM - Airdrome Aeroplanes Wire Wheel kits (Bill Church)
8. 03:16 PM - Fir-spruce test (Steve Singleton)
9. 05:19 PM - Re: Fir-spruce test (Jim Sury)
10. 05:39 PM - Re: Fir-spruce test (Steve Singleton)
11. 05:46 PM - Re: Fir-spruce test (Ryan Michalkiewicz)
12. 05:59 PM - Wood specs (Ryan Michalkiewicz)
13. 06:08 PM - Re: Fir-spruce test (Steve Singleton)
14. 06:14 PM - Re: Fir-spruce test (Jim Sury)
15. 06:19 PM - Re: Airdrome Aeroplanes Wire Wheel kits (John Egan)
16. 06:25 PM - Re: Wood specs (Ben Charvet)
17. 06:30 PM - Carb Ice (Larry Rice)
18. 07:01 PM - Tail wires (Chet's Mail)
19. 07:15 PM - Re: Tail wires (Dick Navratil)
20. 08:01 PM - Finger faster than brain (santiago morete)
21. 08:08 PM - Re: Wood specs (Catdesigns)
22. 09:28 PM - Off Topic - Ya can't do that in a Piet !! (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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Not only is 100 LL Avgas more consistent and reliable, it is alos not
much more expensive right now. I just filled my car with premium at
$3.19 per gallon. Avgas on our field right now is $3.50 per gallon.
After dissolving a needle valve with mogas 25 years ago, before they put
much alcohol in it, I think I'll stick with avgas.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kmordecai001@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carb Ice
Pieters,
I ran into serious carb icing a while back while climbing out. This is
an A-75 with Stromberg carb & Aeronca stacks. The weather was cool and
humid, worst case icing conditions.
Yes, they're not supposed to do that at WOT, I know, but immediate
application of carb heat cleared it up. Climbed on up to a safe
altitude over the field at full throttle, turned carb heat off while at
WOT, and the problem recurred in less than 30 seconds. Not the slow loss
of power described in the textbooks, but roughness followed by loss of
several hundred rpm within seconds. Once again, carb heat cleared it up
almost instantly.
The real root cause of the problem? I believe it was Mogas containing
ethanol, saturated with water.
I had noticed a loss of static rpm during runup, maybe 75-100 rpm, but
it was smooth and sounded good, so I blamed it on cold oil. After being
seriously spooked by the carb icing at WOT, I landed & rechecked the
gascolator, but no free water was present. Went to the EAA website and
followed the instructions on how to make an ethanol tester with a tall
skinny bottle, and found that the local BP/Amoco 87 octane did indeed
contain ethanol. Since the gasoline/ethanol absorbed only a small
quantity of the test water initially put in the bottle, I'm assuming
that it was already saturated with water.
Drained the tank, refilled with 100LL, and gained over 100 rpm static.
No icing at WOT or cruise since then, but the weather has warmed up as
well. The Mogas went into the lawn mower...............
I'm sticking with Avgas from now on. It has it's own issues, but at
least it's consistent from batch to batch, unlike the local gas
stations.
Dave Mordecai
NX520SF
Panacea, FL
Oscar wrote:
> Taxied to the hangar and looked under the cowling. Frost on the carb
> body and manifold, and lots of condensation on the carb and manifold
> areas. Carb ice. I didn't have a lot of time to give it another shot
> and had other tasks to do so I did them and put the airplane away.
> Thirty-five minutes after shutting down the engine, there was still
> condensation on the carb.
>
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
Message 2
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| Subject: | wood gear question |
Yep, that's mine.
Jack Phillips
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Pietsrneat@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood gear question
In a message dated 5/1/2007 10:34:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com writes:
Hi Dan,
I don't know what others have done, but I can answer for what I
did on
my landing gear.
The plans call for spruce, and there is no need to use anything
heavier.
I made mine of 1/4" planks of spruce laminated together, partly
for
strength and partly becasue I wanted to run a channel down the
middle of
the strut to hide my hydraulic brake lines (a plane of this type
didn't
have haydraulic lines hanging out everywhere in 1929).
Is this your gear, Jack. Looks great, whoever it belongs to.
Ron
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesPlanes/BrakelineInstallation_1.
jpg>
do not archive
_____
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
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Message 3
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Jack,
Have you tried your new prop yet?
Gene
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Nope. When I do, I'll post some info to the group. Planning to fly it
to Burlington, NC this weekend to a Vintage Aircraft Fly-in.
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carb Ice
Jack,
Have you tried your new prop yet?
Gene
http://www.matp; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Finger faster than brain |
Santiago
I like your craftsmanship, very nice.
But why the elevator stop ?
None is called for in the plans, None is needed to fly.
Antoine de Saint Exup=C3=A9ry said it so well. "Perfection is finally attain
ed not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer
anything to take away."
And we all know the Pietenpol Air Camper is perfection
Hans,
-----Original Message-----
From: moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar
Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finger faster than brain
________________________________________________________________________
AOL at AOL.com.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Vs. Flybaby cockpit |
Good point, thats with I did using lumber from an old deck I tore out. You
will learn a lot about the design before cutting the expensive wood and you
will know for sure if you really need to widen.
Rick
On 5/1/07, Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Make a mockpit! That will answer all your questions.
>
> http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
>
> Clif
>
>
> Was fairly simple making mine 2" wider than plans, just cost a little
> weight and an extra sheet of 1/8" ply.
>
> Rick
>
> On 4/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone ever sat in a Bowers Flybaby cockpit and how does it compare
> > in size to the Piet? I remember it being a little tight. I'd hate to add the
> > extra weight just for 2".
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -Ryan
> >
> > *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 7
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| Subject: | Airdrome Aeroplanes Wire Wheel kits |
Just got off the phone with Robert Baslee at Airdrome Aeroplanes. Very
nice to talk with. He says he has built over 50 sets of wheels and feels
quite satisfied with the present arrangement which he offers for sale.
Here's the low-down on the wheel kits they sell:
The standard hub is 6" inside the flanges (about 6 1/4" outside) - They
CAN make a wider hub (about 7 1/4") if absolutely necessary, but have
had the best success with the standard hub.
The standard hub is fabricated from chromoly steel, and prime painted.
Standard hub is supplied with oilite bushings with I.D. of 1.25".
Standard hub has a larger inside flange, with a bolt pattern to attach
brakes.
Spokes are heavy duty, chrome plated. (I didn't ask what gauge)
The rims are 19" diameter, chrome plated steel.
The tires are approx 3 1/4", resulting in overall diameter of about 25
1/2" for the wheel.
The wheel kit includes the hubs with bushings, spokes, rims, tubes and
tires (and a video).
The price listed on the website ($495 per pair) typically is for
customers who have purchased their landing gear from him. The price for
wheel kits alone is $595. Lacing and truing is typically another $100.
But Robert kind of hinted that they could probably include the lacing
and truing in the $595 price. (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).
He said that they will sell the hubs alone for $195, because they are a
difficult part to make. If you want to make your own hubs, he said he
COULD sell the rims, spokes, tires & tubes, but anyone could do that.
>From recent posts we see that John Egan has built his wheels for about
$340 (doing all the work himself), and Chris Tracy has invested about
$800 (with purchased hubs and 21" aluminum rims).
Overall the wheel kits sound like good value for the money. Especially
if you don't feel like building your own hubs.
Bill C.
Message 8
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Hi everyone- I just completed my highly scientific stress test on a 48in
1x1of spruce and douglas fir. Both had about a 30degree slope(i know
thats a lot of slope). Both were bowed down about 1/16 when i started.
With a 5gal bucket with 3gal H20 the spruce bowed apprx. 435 thousandths
- firwas at 400 thou. At 5gal water fir. was at 550 down and spruce had
bowed down aapprx. 665 thous. Then removed bucket and put my 200lbs
slowly onto the fir and after just a bit I did hear a crack. Put my
weight on the spruce and it had a catastrophic failure instantly. The
spruce had many rings per in. and the fir had only 5. Moral of the story
is i know its not rocket science and i need to just build. Yes everyone
knows that fir is stronger but weighs a bit more. I agree with someones
else comment that the 5 or 6 ring fir is probably just fine but i'm sure
more rings would be even better. After doing all these very detailed
xperiments a feel i have become an xpert in the weight stess analysis
field so i feel i can speak up and give one more opinion hear. Make sure
you do this test over your floor drain! Have a great day. Steve S
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fir-spruce test |
Steve
Still worried about the fir. This is what I did with mine. Make your
longerons 1x1 but rip them to a little over 1/2 inch and glue them back
together. Take one of the pieces and swap ends. Than plane them to 1x1.
Works great. jas
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Singleton
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fir-spruce test
Hi everyone- I just completed my highly scientific stress test on a
48in 1x1of spruce and douglas fir. Both had about a 30degree slope(i
know thats a lot of slope). Both were bowed down about 1/16 when i
started. With a 5gal bucket with 3gal H20 the spruce bowed apprx. 435
thousandths - firwas at 400 thou. At 5gal water fir. was at 550 down
and spruce had bowed down aapprx. 665 thous. Then removed bucket and put
my 200lbs slowly onto the fir and after just a bit I did hear a crack.
Put my weight on the spruce and it had a catastrophic failure instantly.
The spruce had many rings per in. and the fir had only 5. Moral of the
story is i know its not rocket science and i need to just build. Yes
everyone knows that fir is stronger but weighs a bit more. I agree with
someones else comment that the 5 or 6 ring fir is probably just fine but
i'm sure more rings would be even better. After doing all these very
detailed xperiments a feel i have become an xpert in the weight stess
analysis field so i feel i can speak up and give one more opinion hear.
Make sure you do this test over your floor drain! Have a great day.
Steve S
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fir-spruce test |
Jim-dumb question but did you have the pieces for botttom long.
preshaped in jig when you glued them up or just straight. Steve S
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Sury
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fir-spruce test
Steve
Still worried about the fir. This is what I did with mine. Make your
longerons 1x1 but rip them to a little over 1/2 inch and glue them back
together. Take one of the pieces and swap ends. Than plane them to 1x1.
Works great. jas
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fir-spruce test |
Do you have video of this experiment, it sound highly entertaining, lol.
Steve Singleton <slsingleton@cvalley.net> wrote: Hi everyone- I just
completed my highly scientific stress test on a 48in 1x1of spruce and douglas
fir. Both had about a 30degree slope(i know thats a lot of slope). Both were bowed
down about 1/16 when i started. With a 5gal bucket with 3gal H20 the spruce
bowed apprx. 435 thousandths - firwas at 400 thou. At 5gal water fir. was
at 550 down and spruce had bowed down aapprx. 665 thous. Then removed bucket and
put my 200lbs slowly onto the fir and after just a bit I did hear a crack.
Put my weight on the spruce and it had a catastrophic failure instantly. The spruce
had many rings per in. and the fir had only 5. Moral of the story is i know
its not rocket science and i need to just build. Yes everyone knows that fir
is stronger but weighs a bit more. I agree with someones else comment that
the 5 or 6 ring fir is probably just fine but i'm sure more rings would be even
better. After doing all these very detailed
xperiments a feel i have become an xpert in the weight stess analysis field so
i feel i can speak up and give one more opinion hear. Make sure you do this test
over your floor drain! Have a great day. Steve S
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 12
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I have found a lumber yard that is willing to special order some spruce. What should
I ask for, i.e growth rings, quality, free and clear etc...? I am thinking
4 2x4x16's to get started.
-Ryan
---------------------------------
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Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fir-spruce test |
No but my wife thought it funny when the lab tech put his weight on the
spruce and it collasped. She said i'm not rideing in that thing. She has
no since of adventure. Steve S
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fir-spruce test
Do you have video of this experiment, it sound highly entertaining,
lol.
Steve Singleton <slsingleton@cvalley.net> wrote:
Hi everyone- I just completed my highly scientific stress test on a
48in 1x1of spruce and douglas fir. Both had about a 30degree slope(i
know thats a lot of slope). Both were bowed down about 1/16 when i
started. With a 5gal bucket with 3gal H20 the spruce bowed apprx. 435
thousandths - firwas at 400 thou. At 5gal water fir. was at 550 down
and spruce had bowed down aapprx. 665 thous. Then removed bucket and put
my 200lbs slowly onto the fir and after just a bit I did hear a crack.
Put my weight on the spruce and it had a catastrophic failure instantly.
The spruce had many rings per in. and the fir had only 5.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fir-spruce test |
Straight worked just great. You could preshape but it isn't necessary.
What's great about my process is that you can buy 1x6 lumber and make
1x1 longerons. jas
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Singleton
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fir-spruce test
Jim-dumb question but did you have the pieces for botttom long.
preshaped in jig when you glued them up or just straight. Steve S
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Sury
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fir-spruce test
Steve
Still worried about the fir. This is what I did with mine. Make
your longerons 1x1 but rip them to a little over 1/2 inch and glue them
back together. Take one of the pieces and swap ends. Than plane them to
1x1. Works great. jas
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Airdrome Aeroplanes Wire Wheel kits |
Group,
I have attached a photo of the wheels I made with 19" rims. I would build wheels
again now that I learned how to do it, however it took me a very long time
to learn and complete this portion of my project. I agree that the $495 price
of a complete set is a very reasonable price.
john e.
Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
Just got off the phone with Robert Baslee at Airdrome Aeroplanes. Very nice
to talk with. He says he has built over 50 sets of wheels and feels quite satisfied
with the present arrangement which he offers for sale.
Here's the low-down on the wheel kits they sell:
The standard hub is 6" inside the flanges (about 6 1/4" outside) - They CAN
make a wider hub (about 7 1/4") if absolutely necessary, but have had the best
success with the standard hub.
The standard hub is fabricated from chromoly steel, and prime painted.
Standard hub is supplied with oilite bushings with I.D. of 1.25".
Standard hub has a larger inside flange, with a bolt pattern to attach brakes.
Spokes are heavy duty, chrome plated. (I didn't ask what gauge)
The rims are 19" diameter, chrome plated steel.
The tires are approx 3 1/4", resulting in overall diameter of about 25 1/2" for
the wheel.
The wheel kit includes the hubs with bushings, spokes, rims, tubes and tires
(and a video).
The price listed on the website ($495 per pair) typically is for customers who
have purchased their landing gear from him. The price for wheel kits alone is
$595. Lacing and truing is typically another $100. But Robert kind of hinted
that they could probably include the lacing and truing in the $595 price. (nudge,
nudge, wink, wink).
He said that they will sell the hubs alone for $195, because they are a difficult
part to make. If you want to make your own hubs, he said he COULD sell the
rims, spokes, tires & tubes, but anyone could do that.
From recent posts we see that John Egan has built his wheels for about $340 (doing
all the work himself), and Chris Tracy has invested about $800 (with purchased
hubs and 21" aluminum rims).
Overall the wheel kits sound like good value for the money. Especially if you
don't feel like building your own hubs.
Bill C.
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 16
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I'd go with 2X6's instead if you could get 4 of those you'd have plenty
for the fuselage and tail.. Special order it may be tough to get the
specifications on growth rings. You want at least 8 per inch. EAA has
a good book on building with wood, and if you are a member of EAA they
have a bunch of articles in the homebuilders section of their website
that would help you grade the wood. Good Luck
Ben
Ryan Michalkiewicz wrote:
> I have found a lumber yard that is willing to special order some
> spruce. What should I ask for, i.e growth rings, quality, free and
> clear etc...? I am thinking 4 2x4x16's to get started.
>
> -Ryan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM->
>
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 17
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The 'ol Continental 0-200 is bad for ice, too. I think it's because the
carb's not mounted on the sump like a Lyc. This should give more
HP/cubic inch, at least in theory, due to the cooler charge.
Larry the microMong guy
--
Message 18
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Can any one give me a direction to go where I can find the tension
required for the tail brace wires.
Also what is the tension of the alerion control cables?
Just a update for everone on N970Y Mr. Don Hicks piet, I have been
working on the starting problems of the model A. Due to poor spark, bad
wires, dirty fuel and a bad mag we think we have things going our way. I
hope to fly with in the month.
Chet Hartley
Message 19
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Chet
On your first two questions, not much and not much. You definetly don't
want the wires to ping or fwang when you pluck them on the tail. More
importantly, make sure the wires leave the tail perfectly balanced. A
half turn off here or there changes the way it flys. On the ailereons,
The tighter they are the more friction on the pulleys and fittings.
Align using the top cable and just snug up the bottoms.
Good luck
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chet's Mail
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wires
Can any one give me a direction to go where I can find the tension
required for the tail brace wires.
Also what is the tension of the alerion control cables?
Just a update for everone on N970Y Mr. Don Hicks piet, I have been
working on the starting problems of the model A. Due to poor spark, bad
wires, dirty fuel and a bad mag we think we have things going our way. I
hope to fly with in the month.
Chet Hartley
Message 20
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| Subject: | Finger faster than brain |
Thanks Hans.
Well, we just like the stops in the controls, in fact we will add stops for the
rudder and aileron (small, very small wood blocks) it adds no complexity or
weight and that's my main concern.
I agree 100% with your Piet philosophy. We will have a one piece wing, wood
gear, Ford A, but also will have safety belts, brakes and a steerable tail wheel
(I already feel shame for that).
Yes, as a Piet purist I'm a sinner.
Saludos
Santiago
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Pregunt. Respond. Descubr.
Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
Message 21
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Take a look at these
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/testing_wood.pdf
and
http://www.sportair.org/articles/Aircraft%20Wood%20-%20Part%20One.html
and a good overview of wood.
http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/contents.html
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood specs
I have found a lumber yard that is willing to special order some
spruce. What should I ask for, i.e growth rings, quality, free and clear
etc...? I am thinking 4 2x4x16's to get started.
-Ryan
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Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Off Topic - Ya can't do that in a Piet !! |
Here is the high energy promo clip for Skip Stewert Airshow. His show is
coming to Wichita in the fall.
_http://youtube.com/watch?v=UWAbbV4ZB_k_
(http://youtube.com/watch?v=UWAbbV4ZB_k)
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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