Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:27 AM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (Phillips, Jack)
2. 11:14 AM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (baileys)
3. 11:37 AM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (DJ Vegh)
4. 12:06 PM - Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 01:41 PM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (Arden Adamson)
6. 03:07 PM - Flight tests for NX92GaryBell, WACO fly in at wyncoop (shad bell)
7. 03:26 PM - Wide body. (Robert Gow)
8. 03:33 PM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (walt evans)
9. 03:42 PM - Re: Stanton Airfield Fly-In (Dale Johnson)
10. 05:07 PM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
11. 05:23 PM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (Gene & Tammy)
12. 05:33 PM - Re: Wide body. (Amsafetyc@aol.com)
13. 07:07 PM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (Isablcorky@aol.com)
14. 07:44 PM - wide body (Oscar Zuniga)
15. 08:03 PM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (GlennThomas@flyingwood.com)
16. 09:47 PM - Re: Wide body. (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions |
Hi Greg,
Good questions. I can answer some of them for you:
1. Cost. My Pietenpol cost me a total of about $15,000 to build. I
basically did not spare any expense and you can probably take this to be
the upper limit on cost. I used aircraft grade Sitka Spruce throughout,
a rebuilt Continental A-65 that I overhauled myself ($7,000 of the total
cost is in the engine), fuselage an inch wider than plans (requires a
lot more plywood, since you can't get two pieces out of a 48" wide
plywood sheet), polyfiber fabric (certified) with Aerothane polyurethane
paint (a mistake - too expensive and too heavy). Even at that price,
since it was spread out of 8 years of building I tell people I spent
about the same amount of money a two-pack-a-day smoker would have spent
on cigarettes in the same timeframe. Others have built nice Pietenpols
for much less. I think Steve Eldredge only has about $6500 in his. A
lot depends on how good a "scrounger" you are, and in this day of
internet searches, scrounging is pretty easy. I would say if you work
at it you could easily build a Piet for $10,000 or less. Looks pretty
attractive compared to the prices of the new LSA offerings.
2. Pietenpol vs. Grega. Ahh, here is where opinions come into play.
The first Aircamper I ever flew was a Grega GN-1, which I thought was a
Pietenpol at the time. Flew very nicely, and looked enough like a Piet
to fool me. Frankly, I don't think it makes any difference - both are
good flying airplanes. The GN-1 was designed during a time when there
were a lot of surplus Cub and Champ parts available at very cheap
prices, so the design made use of those in an effort to reduce building
time and cost. Those parts are long gone, now and there is probably
little advantage in building a Grega. I built a Pietenpol, so you can
guess where my opinion lies.
3. Width of the cockpit backseat? Depends on if you build it to plans
or not. I made mine an inch wider than plans (see added expense, above)
and my rear cockpit is about 23" wide. I also built the "long fuselage"
version, which gives about 9" more room, but adds a little weight. I
have flown Mike Cuy's, which has the short fuselage built to plans. It
was adequately roomy and is what I would build if I had it to do over
again. For comparison's sake, I'm 6'2" and weigh 200 lbs.
4. Brakes? Mine (and most Pietenpols today) has brakes and a steerable
tailwheel. Greg Cardinal's and Dale Johnson's Piet has no brakes and a
tailskid. Depends on what kind of field you fly from. With a tailskid
you are pretty much limited to flying from grass, particularly if you
don't have brakes. In the part of the country where I fly, few grass
strips have gas available - not a problem if you are using autogas and
don't mind refueling from a can, but it gets more difficult when you fly
on a long cross-country and have to find fields with grass runways and
gas that are close enough together for the usual Pietenpol's limited
range.
There are a number of other questions that usually come up, so you might
as well have them as well:
5. What kind of wood should I use? As I indicated above, I used
aircraft grade Sitka Spruce, which has the best strength to weight ratio
of any wood. It it also about the most expensive wood, but it works
very nicely, doesn't split easily and doesn't splinter. Many choose
Douglas fir, which is stronger than spruce, but heavier. It is
substantially cheaper than spruce (probably less than half the cost) but
the cost of the wood is a total of about 10% the cost of the airplane.
If you are on a tight budget, I'd use Douglas Fir. If money is not so
tight, I think spruce is a better choice. Weight is very important (ask
me how I know). There are other choices, such as Western Red Cedar, but
most Piets are built of either Douglas Fir or Sitka Spruce.
6. What glue should I use? Most people use T-88 epoxy. It has good
strength, is easy to mix properly, can be applied over a wide range of
temperatures and has good gap-filling capabilities. I used it in my
cockpit area because it dries clear and doesn't make such a messy
looking joint as some other glues. Having said all that, the only glue
the FAA approves for use on certificated aircraft with wooden structures
is Resorcinol. Resorcinol is more difficult to mix accurately, must be
applied at temps over 70 degrees F, requires very tight fitting joints
(no gap-filling capability) and must be cured under pressure (requires
nailing the gussets with a nail about every 3/4"), but when properly
applied, it is incredibly strong and waterproof (it can withstand
immersion in boiling water for 24 hours, in case you ever plan to boil
your airplane). I used Resorcinol on most of the structure in my
Pietenpol and would do it again if I built another one. The only thing
that would really be a guide here is if you live in an area of extreme
humidity, Resorcinol might have a slight edge over T-88.
7. What Engine? Most people use one of three engine choices - Model A
Ford, Chevrolet Corvair, or Continental A-65. There are other choices,
ranging from Lambert radial engines, to turbocharged Subarus. None are
bad choices. One of the real beauties of the Pietenpol design is its
ability to accept many different types of engines. I chose the
COntinental because I used to own a Piper J-3 Cub and was familiar with
that engine.
All these choices is why there are no two Pietenpols exactly alike.
Enjoy the process!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Heath
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and
other questions
I just joined the group and am contemplating building a Pietenpol.
Those of you who have completed an aircraft, what final figure did you
come up with for a final monetary cost? I am trying to plan for the
budget.
I also see there are 2 plans available ,one for a Pietenpol and one for
a GN-1. What is the difference between them?
I am looking for specs. What is the width of the cockpit backseat? (
Width and legroom length)
Are there brakes...? (yea, ok, this might be a stupid question, but I
don't know...so I am asking anyway)
Thanks for any help you can shoot my way...
Please respond to my home email at kb2qqm@mac.com
Thanks..
Greg H
Racine, WI
_________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions |
Umm, side note - I believe the GN-1 plans have been withdrawn from the
market. Mr. Grega passed away some time back and his son was selling
the plans, but now he has taken them off the market.
Maybe someone has more information on the matter.
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Heath
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and
other questions
I just joined the group and am contemplating building a Pietenpol.
Those of you who have completed an aircraft, what final figure did you
come up with for a final monetary cost? I am trying to plan for the
budget.
I also see there are 2 plans available ,one for a Pietenpol and one
for a GN-1. What is the difference between them?
I am looking for specs. What is the width of the cockpit backseat? (
Width and legroom length)
Are there brakes...? (yea, ok, this might be a stupid question, but I
don't know...so I am asking anyway)
Thanks for any help you can shoot my way...
Please respond to my home email at kb2qqm@mac.com
Thanks..
Greg H
Racine, WI
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions |
I'm almost certain that he withdrew the plans because he's nervous about
liability issues. kinda dumb really. how many Piets/GN-1's have you
seen go down and the copyright owner of the plans get sued?
I wonder though what the legal issues are if someone bought plans but
then decides they do not want them and wish to sell.
I believe it's all legit. much like selling a used book or music CD.
Could probably find folks out there who wish to sell their plans
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: baileys
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol
and other questions
Umm, side note - I believe the GN-1 plans have been withdrawn from the
market. Mr. Grega passed away some time back and his son was selling
the plans, but now he has taken them off the market.
Maybe someone has more information on the matter.
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Heath
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and
other questions
I just joined the group and am contemplating building a Pietenpol.
Those of you who have completed an aircraft, what final figure did you
come up with for a final monetary cost? I am trying to plan for the
budget.
I also see there are 2 plans available ,one for a Pietenpol and one
for a GN-1. What is the difference between them?
I am looking for specs. What is the width of the cockpit backseat?
( Width and legroom length)
Are there brakes...? (yea, ok, this might be a stupid question, but
I don't know...so I am asking anyway)
Thanks for any help you can shoot my way...
Please respond to my home email at kb2qqm@mac.com
Thanks..
Greg H
Racine, p; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
p; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions |
I tend to agree with what Jack wrote about cost since I bought NX41CC
complete and flying, with pretty much just the test hours flown off, for
$15K from Corky. Let's assume just for a minute that the cost of the engine
and airplane (materials) was $10K. That means $5K of the total cost was for
Corky's labor and love.
The chargeout rate for people in my line of business today (consulting
engineering) is well over $100/hr. but let's use the $100/hr. number. See
where I'm going with this? That money would buy 50 hours of my time and
I'll bet Corky had 40 or 50x that amount of time in this airplane so it's
not like you build Pietenpols to get rich doing it. If you want to fly, buy
something that is complete and flying or close to it and consider the above
cost to be what you'll pay for the care and enjoyment that it took someone
to build a clean Pietenpol. You'll pay more for a show winner and less for
a more pedestrian example with higher hours and more wear, but that's not a
bad ballpark price.
But if you want to build, the cost of materials is not the driving factor.
Let's say you spend $8400 in materials and parts to build your airplane and
it takes you 7 years to build it. That's $100 a month if you average it
out. If you only work weekends, that's $25 per weekend in building
materials. I can't think of anything as fun and satisfying that I can do
for $25 for a weekend (wipe those thoughts out of your minds, gentlemen) and
can in all honesty say that I drop that much at Lowe's or Home Depot in
household stuff and tools every weekend without building airplanes!
Buy one or build one... you can't go wrong. It just comes down to which you
want to do more.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows
Live Hotmail.
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| Subject: | Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions |
Gentlemen,
I've got an old set of GN-1 plans I'll sell if anyone is interested.
Contact me off-line. 715-258-4238 or aadamson@wnmdag.org
Arden Adamson
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of baileys
Sent: Mon 6/18/2007 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and
other questions
Umm, side note - I believe the GN-1 plans have been withdrawn from the
market. Mr. Grega passed away some time back and his son was selling
the plans, but now he has taken them off the market.
Maybe someone has more information on the matter.
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Heath <mailto:kb2qqm@mac.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and
other questions
I just joined the group and am contemplating building a Pietenpol.
Those of you who have completed an aircraft, what final figure did you
come up with for a final monetary cost? I am trying to plan for the
budget.
I also see there are 2 plans available ,one for a Pietenpol and one for
a GN-1. What is the difference between them?
I am looking for specs. What is the width of the cockpit backseat? (
Width and legroom length)
Are there brakes...? (yea, ok, this might be a stupid question, but I
don't know...so I am asking anyway)
Thanks for any help you can shoot my way...
Please respond to my home email at kb2qqm@mac.com
Thanks..
Greg H
Racine, p; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
p; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Flight tests for NX92GaryBell, WACO fly in at wyncoop |
Hello Guys, Did another 20 min flight today and oil is still getting too warm.
It gets hot and stabilizes at about 260F indicated. Ambiant temp today was 91+
degrees. I am going out to run it again here in a few minuites and I am going
to check the temp of the oil pan with a meat thermometer to verify the gauge
is accurate. Break in temps are usually hotter but not sure 30+ degrees hotter
is normal. Still wondering if any of You Ohio Piets are going to Wyncoop
Waco fly-in this comming weekend. It starts thursday, And I verified this today
when I went over there to fill up the cans with 100 LL (at $3.56 per gal).
We should be there saturday, and might fly over friday evening as it is only
10 miles away.
Hope to see you there, now I'm going flying
Shad
NX92GB
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
Message 7
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|
I was at the fly-in in Brussels last weekend and really enjoyed seeing all
the Pietenpols. They had a fuselage there for test fitting. I found the
cockpit a little tight in the shoulders - I touched on both sides just below
the shoulders.
I'm 5'11, 220 lbs. but losing weight won't help the problem. I was
comfortable with one arm outside the fuselage.
One of the guys tried to simulate a higher position using cushions and that
helped a little. Question is, has anyone looked at all the implications
(including weight) of building it a little wider? Comments from anyone who
has tried it
How much useful extra space do you get in the back hole with the long
fuselage?
Fly in was great. No Ford A powered units there but there was a Ford escort
powered unit with the front hole covered over.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other |
questions
Greg,
My take on this is,,,
"Build to build,, Don't build to fly"
My first project was a Fisher wooden kit.
The second was a, from plans Pietenpol Aircamper.
The BIG advantage of any kit plane is that it's all there.
In building the Piet, you were always ordering something. Mainly from
Aircraft Spruce.
The biggie is how the shipping costs add up. As evidence for my repaiman's
cert, I stapled my whole pack of AS&S reciepts together. If you pressed them
down with a book, they would be at least 1/2" thick. I didn't even want to
know what the shipping costs were.
Bottom line is,,,if you're watching costs too closely, it's either not going
to work, and you'll sell it as a partial project.
Or you'll finish it with great emotional strain to your family.
If you're looking for the most frugal way, there was a guy a few years ago
that built the "Poplar Piet" He cut down the Poplar tree,,sawed it, dried
it, and built from it.
Some build from wood that's available from the local lumber stores. They do
they're homework and learn how to "read" wood. They can pick "diamonds from
coal" in the wood stack.
Met a guy from Sussex, nj, that built a Flybaby this way. Complete price of
the plane, I think, was $6,000.00.
There are alot of options.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Heath" <kb2qqm@mac.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other
questions
>
> I just joined the group and am contemplating building a Pietenpol. Those
> of you who have completed an aircraft, what final figure did you come up
> with for a final monetary cost? I am trying to plan for the budget.
>
> I also see there are 2 plans available ,one for a Pietenpol and one for a
> GN-1. What is the difference between them?
>
> I am looking for specs. What is the width of the cockpit backseat? (
> Width and legroom length)
>
> Are there brakes...? (yea, ok, this might be a stupid question, but I
> don't know...so I am asking anyway)
>
> Thanks for any help you can shoot my way...
>
>
> Please respond to my home email at kb2qqm@mac.com
>
> Thanks..
>
> Greg H
> Racine, WI
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Stanton Airfield Fly-In |
Steve
I'am glad you enjoyed your visit to Stanton Airfield Fly-In.
I built most of the Piet you saw and the wood is black walnut burl. It's
bookcased so the right matches the left
& the front panel matches the rear panel.
I live in Burnsville just south of Bloomington .
Give me a call when you are in the aera
952 890 3905
We might be able to go for a glider ride.
Dale Johnson
> [Original Message]
> From: Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/17/2007 10:15:24 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stanton Airfield Fly-In
>
<steve@wotelectronics.com>
>
> Wow, what an amazing panel on that Piet, that looks beautiful. What kind
of
> wood is that?
>
> My wife is from Bloomington, MN, so we are up there several times a year.
> Are there any regularly scheduled events at Stanton? I'd love to make it
> sometime...we are headed up there in a couple of weeks for the 4th of
July.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Verthein
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:31 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stanton Airfield Fly-In
>
> <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
> This weekend we made the trek from our home in Bovey, MN down to
> Minneapolis to my parents house. hadn't actually spent fathers day
> with Dad for many years. Dad, of course was a PP but hasn't flown for
> many years. Stanton Airfield was having a fathers day fly in, pancake
> breakfast. Stanton is a bit of an historic field, about an hours drive
> south of Minneapolis. Grass field, completely geared to recreational
> and sport pilot flying. They also do glider training, etc. This field
> was used for training for WWII pilots. I really wanted to have a close
> look at the field and meet the staff, since I'm about 99% sure I'm
> going to use some vacation time there this fall taking my sport pilot
> training. They have a very nice web site at:
> http://www.stantonairfield.com/
>
> Anyway, we got there about 4 minutes after the breakfast was to start.
> Right off the bat spied a Piet, so talked with the owner and had a
> pretty close look, then bumped into Ron Donner, president of Stanton
> Sport Aviation and talked about flying a bit. Finally made it to the
> food hanger and had a super tasty breakfast. Then proceeded to walk
> the parking area and look at the rows of planes that had flown in.
> Lots of classic light planes on hand. Dad just about went nuts when he
> spied a nice shiny Cessna. He flew a 120 a LOT when he was dating then
> first married, to my Mom, and I'd say, since the early 70's, this is
> the first time I know of that my Mom and Dad were together at an
> airport, anywhere near a plane from the "good ol' days"
>
> Naturally, I took way too many photos, and being not patient enough to
> really edit and tweak them, I just simple mass sized them and whipped
> up a quick gallery (with a lot of Pietenpol pictures as well as the
> rest) and posted them at:
> http://www.edselmotors.com/stantonflyin.html
> but note, not a lot of editing and NO image tweaking..this is raw from
> the camera. Click the thumbnails to see bigger pics of course. The
> "older" couple is my mom and Dad standing in front of the Piet and the
> Cessna...The day got the wife inspired to get cracking on building air
> planes, and getting her license too, in fact, we're going back next
> week, she's going flying in the Great Planes biplane! So..that's the
> news from up here anyway.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
> Oh..and if for some reason anyone has a need for a bigger/high res
> version of any of the pics, just let me know and give me the image
> number and I'd be glad to e-mail it to ya.
>
> ==
> You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
> ==
>
>
>
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated
> for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
> http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other |
questions
In a message dated 6/18/2007 6:34:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
waltdak@verizon.net writes:
The biggie is how the shipping costs add up
Is it just me, or is everything from Aircraft Spruce expensive to ship? I
ordered 25(?) nut plates and the shipping to SC from GA was to be $7 if I
remember correctly. When I inquired why so much, they said because of the weight!
So I says exactly how much do they weigh? I forget the exact amount, but it
was less than a pound! I think they must get a kick back on shipping or
something!
Boyce
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions |
Good Post Oscar.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other
questions
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> I tend to agree with what Jack wrote about cost since I bought NX41CC
> complete and flying, with pretty much just the test hours flown off, for
> $15K from Corky. Let's assume just for a minute that the cost of the
> engine and airplane (materials) was $10K. That means $5K of the total
> cost was for Corky's labor and love.
>
> The chargeout rate for people in my line of business today (consulting
> engineering) is well over $100/hr. but let's use the $100/hr. number. See
> where I'm going with this? That money would buy 50 hours of my time and
> I'll bet Corky had 40 or 50x that amount of time in this airplane so it's
> not like you build Pietenpols to get rich doing it. If you want to fly,
> buy something that is complete and flying or close to it and consider the
> above cost to be what you'll pay for the care and enjoyment that it took
> someone to build a clean Pietenpol. You'll pay more for a show winner and
> less for a more pedestrian example with higher hours and more wear, but
> that's not a bad ballpark price.
>
> But if you want to build, the cost of materials is not the driving factor.
> Let's say you spend $8400 in materials and parts to build your airplane
> and it takes you 7 years to build it. That's $100 a month if you average
> it out. If you only work weekends, that's $25 per weekend in building
> materials. I can't think of anything as fun and satisfying that I can do
> for $25 for a weekend (wipe those thoughts out of your minds, gentlemen)
> and can in all honesty say that I drop that much at Lowe's or Home Depot
> in household stuff and tools every weekend without building airplanes!
>
> Buy one or build one... you can't go wrong. It just comes down to which
> you want to do more.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> PC Magazine's 2007 editors' choice for best Web mail-award-winning Windows
> Live Hotmail.
>
>
> --
> 269.9.0/853 - Release Date: 6/18/2007 3:02 PM
>
Message 12
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I am building wider, my long fuse is 29 inches overall width. A little bit of a
squeeze to join th tail but its holding rather nicely and looking like a real
aiplane. Major down side is the plywood usage. What should take an 1 eigth sheet
now takes more which will drive the cost up. For me, I would rather sit in
comfort than wear it.
Since I am building for me, why not build it for me?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
To:<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wide body.
I was at the fly-in in Brussels last weekend and really enjoyed seeing all the
Pietenpols. They had a fuselage there for test fitting. I found the cockpit a
little tight in the shoulders - I touched on both sides just below the shoulders.
I'm 5'11, 220 lbs. but losing weight won't help the problem. I was comfortable
with one arm outside the fuselage.
One of the guys tried to simulate a higher position using cushions and that helped
a little. Question is, has anyone looked at all the implications (including
weight) of building it a little wider?Comments from anyone who has tried it
How much useful extra space do you get in the back hole with the long fuselage?
Fly in was great. No Ford A powered units there but there was a Ford escort powered
unit with the front hole covered over.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other |
questions
Boyce,
May I add my frustration on the pricing and shipping. Many years ago I was
so utterly disgusted with ASS business practices and services that I went to
Wicks where I've bought most of my stuff the last 7 years. Last week I needed
some ,032 2024 T- to build a new cowling for the L-3. A 4x12 sheet sells , in
the latest catalog, for $118. When I called in my order the sweet lady
informs me of a recent price increase to $188 for the same sheet. I had to bite
the
bullet and ordered. When it arrived rolled they had allowed themselves an
additional $7 for the box and the UPS special charges brought the entire order
to over $ 232. I'm still burning.
They will see their day
Corky who still remembers the depression years
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 14
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I do all of my taxiing and a surprising amount of my flying with my left
elbow hanging out of the cockpit or at least resting on the edge with my
elbow out. I find it completely natural, kind of fits the style of that
era, and when the slipstream gets chilly I just tuck my arm back into the
cockpit and my head down behind the windscreen and I don't feel cramped.
However, I am 5'-10" and 150 lbs. so the Piet is a pretty nice fit for me
all around.
The throttle in the rear cockpit of 41CC is not pendant ("hanging down")
like the plans show, but upright as in most conventional quadrants, so the
knob is quite close to the top longeron and it falls to hand much more
naturally with my elbow hanging out. Were it lower down, I might not find
it so comfortable that way.
I also feel the urge to wave at people on the ground a lot and it's easy to
wave with my arm already out of the cockpit so I do, and they seem to always
be watching the airplane as I go by. Surprisingly, they almost always wave
back.... something I had never experienced in all of my spam can flying time
except for the time that I left the tag end of the seatbelt hanging out the
door ;o)
I was playing with the wing flop section the other day, in flight. If I
reach up and force it upward, it acts as a speed brake but also pitches the
nose up (duh!) Sometimes I feel like a little 55-year-old kid flying this
airplane but I justify it by saying that it is educational and
experimentation and will serve me in some useful capacity sometime ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other |
questions
The only part of any orders from AS&S that they seem to get right is the
T-88. It's been perfect every time. As for the wood....
I tried Edensaw but I guess they can't keep aircraft grade Sitka Spruce
in stock all the time.
Glenn W. Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol
and other questions
Boyce,
May I add my frustration on the pricing and shipping. Many years ago I
was so utterly disgusted with ASS business practices and services that I
went to Wicks where I've bought most of my stuff the last 7 years. Last
week I needed some ,032 2024 T- to build a new cowling for the L-3. A
4x12 sheet sells , in the latest catalog, for $118. When I called in my
order the sweet lady informs me of a recent price increase to $188 for
the same sheet. I had to bite the bullet and ordered. When it arrived
rolled they had allowed themselves an additional $7 for the box and the
UPS special charges brought the entire order to over $ 232. I'm still
burning.
They will see their day
Corky who still remembers the depression years
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's free at AOL.com.
Message 16
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Ditto's.........
Robert,
I am building a long fuse Pietenpol and have the same issues you are describing.
I am 6'0" and 265 lbs. in very good strong shape! Heck, came out of high school
at 245 lbs. in 1982!
So...I made my Pietenpol fuse 29" wide instead of the 24" as per plans. A few
changes but otherwise everything is still the same. I fit real nice with plenty
of room. I know many others whom have made their projects 2-3" wider. I believe
I am the only one?...... so far that has gone a full 5" wider. Remember,
it still tapers to the rear so the final width at the rear seat will be around
27" something when completed.
No problem with this wide body flying!
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
(Where the movie failed and the money is lost)
Amsafetyc@aol.com wrote:
I am building wider, my long fuse is 29 inches overall width. A little bit of a
squeeze to join th tail but its holding rather nicely and looking like a real
aiplane. Major down side is the plywood usage. What should take an 1 eigth sheet
now takes more which will drive the cost up. For me, I would rather sit in
comfort than wear it.
Since I am building for me, why not build it for me?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Gow"
To:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wide body.
I was at the fly-in in Brussels last weekend and really enjoyed seeing all the
Pietenpols. They had a fuselage there for test fitting. I found the cockpit
a little tight in the shoulders - I touched on both sides just below the shoulders.
I'm 5'11, 220 lbs. but losing weight won't help the problem. I was comfortable
with one arm outside the fuselage.
One of the guys tried to simulate a higher position using cushions and that helped
a little. Question is, has anyone looked at all the implications (including
weight) of building it a little wider? Comments from anyone who has tried
it
How much useful extra space do you get in the back hole with the long fuselage?
Fly in was great. No Ford A powered units there but there was a Ford escort powered
unit with the front hole covered over.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA,CPO,FAAOP
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