---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/21/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Phillips, Jack) 2. 06:43 AM - drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 07:00 AM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Phillips, Jack) 4. 08:17 AM - rigging (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 5. 11:05 AM - Re: Wide body. (Bill Church) 6. 11:15 AM - Re: Wide body. () 7. 12:01 PM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Gene & Tammy) 8. 12:20 PM - Re: Wide body. (walt evans) 9. 12:34 PM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Phillips, Jack) 10. 12:37 PM - Re: Wide body. (Phillips, Jack) 11. 01:34 PM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Gene & Tammy) 12. 02:01 PM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (HelsperSew@aol.com) 13. 02:02 PM - Re: Wide body. (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 14. 02:59 PM - Re: Wide body. (walt evans) 15. 05:35 PM - Re: rigging (shad bell) 16. 05:46 PM - Re: Wide body. (Amsafetyc@aol.com) 17. 09:05 PM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Dick Navratil) 18. 09:26 PM - Re: Wide body. (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings From: "Phillips, Jack" Hi Scott, I used 1/8" 1 x 19 cables for my drag and anti-drag wires. You can find cable in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (page 139 in the current catalog). Wicks and Dillsburg carry it as well, at generally better prices. 1 x 19 is stronger than 7 x 19, but is less flexible and can be a real bear to bend around the thimble and crimp in a nicopress fitting. For the slight difference in tensile strength, I would not recommend 1 x 19, but go with the more flexible 7 x 19 cable. There has been discussion on this list recently about what kind of nicopress fittings to use with galvanized or stainless cable. Use zinc or nickel plated copper for stainless cable, bare copper with galvanized cable. I must confess, I didn't know there was a difference and used bare copper on my stainless cables. Just another item to check carefully during the annual condition inspection. Be careful to trammel the wing accurately when you install and tighten the drag and anti-drag wires. If your wing is trammeled accurately, and rigged well the plane will fly pretty much hands off. Skip this step and you'll find yourself adding ground adjustable trim tabs to your ailerons. Good luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP Counting the days till Brodhead _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:37 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Dick, thanks for the quick response, I have my bolt list together and just need to add the wire and such. I found the turnbuckles on Wicks right away but searching for 3/32x7/19 didn't turn up anything. Is that any specific type of wire that would be listed in the catalog? -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Scott 3/32x7/19 is good for internal drag wires with MS21251-b3s turnbuckles. Wing strut fittings are 1/8" 7/19 wire and turnbuckles are MS 21251-b5s. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings I have both wings done sans bracing wire, and need to get that done. I made the fittings and am ready to do the wires. As I understand it the hard wire is either not available or not used? What sort of wire and fittings are appropriate for this? And I suppose I have the same question for the tail brace and the brace wire between the lift struts. Other than the center section I can say I have all the major assemblys done. So it seems I am headed into that last 25% that takes as long as the first 75% or however it breaks down these days. -Scott Schreiber href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:20 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Jack wrote- >If your wing is trammeled accurately, and rigged well >the plane will fly pretty much hands off. That's one thing I noted in Mike Cuy's video... everything looks so perfectly square and rectilinear in his uncovered wings. A little care here will sure pay off. Corky must have done the same with 41CC because it can be flown pretty much hands-off (okay, just a little dab of rudder now and again to pick up a wing) either solo or two-up. I never fly it hands-off since it always seems to be bumpy when I fly but when I was getting instruction in it, I tended to fight the stick constantly and ol' Charlie finally just yelled in the headset for me to take my hands completely off the stick so I did, and to my amazement the airplane didn't fall off on a wing and go into a spin ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings From: "Phillips, Jack" I said it would fly hands off. I never said it would fly "feet off". In smooth air I can fly mine for minutes at a time with my hand off the stick, as long as I keep my feet on the rudder bar. Pietenpols tend to have pretty much neutral stability in the yaw axis and it doesn't take much to make the nose wander off. If I take my feet off, within a few seconds the nose will wander, which will tend to raise a wing and there she goes. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings --> Jack wrote- >If your wing is trammeled accurately, and rigged well the plane will >fly pretty much hands off. That's one thing I noted in Mike Cuy's video... everything looks so perfectly square and rectilinear in his uncovered wings. A little care here will sure pay off. Corky must have done the same with 41CC because it can be flown pretty much hands-off (okay, just a little dab of rudder now and again to pick up a wing) either solo or two-up. I never fly it hands-off since it always seems to be bumpy when I fly but when I was getting instruction in it, I tended to fight the stick constantly and ol' Charlie finally just yelled in the headset for me to take my hands completely off the stick so I did, and to my amazement the airplane didn't fall off on a wing and go into a spin ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: rigging From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" I had two IA's that couldn't have stressed proper rigging to me more and in reading the Tony B. books on this he too couldn't stress proper rigging enough. Bill Klosz (WWII vet who flew B-24's and IA) helped me rig with his digital angle finder level to make sure everything was right including washout of about 3/8" at the third rib in from the wing tip ala J-3's and such. I'm glad those guys hounded me thru the rigging--it paid off. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. From: "Bill Church" John, The only real point I was trying to make was that the extra financial cost of making the fuse wider really is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Now, if you are building multiple Air Campers, like Bernard Pietenpol did, then it begins to have a real impact on costs (it also doesn't hurt to weigh 140 lb or whatever Mr. Pietenpol weighed). Someone commented once that to build one Pietenpol, you make enough parts for three - the third set is usually the best, and that's what goes in the plane. As for weight, I have read many, many times that the lighter you can build your plane, the better. As someone else once said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you're thinking about adding something to your plane, throw that item up in the air. If it comes back down, don't add it to your plane." You are absolutely correct that you are the builder, and what you build is up to you. That's the beauty of experimental aircraft. We all have a duty to research any changes that we intend to make. Every little change tends to impact on several other things. We just need to be careful about the changes. Good luck with the weight savings, and keep having fun. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. From: My electric starter came down with a real hard thud but I wouldn't change it for all the tea in China.It's so nice to just get in there and not have to worry about propping that bugger.Oh the battery came down with a thud too.;-) I'll bet I could even add the generator that came with it and there wouldn't be a hell of a lot of difference in performance either. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: June 21, 2007 2:05 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. John, The only real point I was trying to make was that the extra financial cost of making the fuse wider really is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Now, if you are building multiple Air Campers, like Bernard Pietenpol did, then it begins to have a real impact on costs (it also doesn't hurt to weigh 140 lb or whatever Mr. Pietenpol weighed). Someone commented once that to build one Pietenpol, you make enough parts for three - the third set is usually the best, and that's what goes in the plane. As for weight, I have read many, many times that the lighter you can build your plane, the better. As someone else once said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you're thinking about adding something to your plane, throw that item up in the air. If it comes back down, don't add it to your plane." You are absolutely correct that you are the builder, and what you build is up to you. That's the beauty of experimental aircraft. We all have a duty to research any changes that we intend to make. Every little change tends to impact on several other things. We just need to be careful about the changes. Good luck with the weight savings, and keep having fun. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:13 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Jack, I'm not fimilliar with the term "trammel". I'm getting ready to move my wings back 3" to correct my W & B and will need to redo the drag and anti-drag wires. Any thoughts? Gene ----- Original Message ----- .com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 6/20/2007 2:18 PM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:39 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body.Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. My electric starter came down with a real hard thud but I wouldn't change it for all the tea in China.It's so nice to just get in there and not have to worry about propping that bugger.Oh the battery came down with a thud too.;-) I'll bet I could even add the generator that came with it and there wouldn't be a hell of a lot of difference in performance either. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: June 21, 2007 2:05 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. John, The only real point I was trying to make was that the extra financial cost of making the fuse wider really is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Now, if you are building multiple Air Campers, like Bernard Pietenpol did, then it begins to have a real impact on costs (it also doesn't hurt to weigh 140 lb or whatever Mr. Pietenpol weighed). Someone commented once that to build one Pietenpol, you make enough parts for three - the third set is usually the best, and that's what goes in the plane. As for weight, I have read many, many times that the lighter you can build your plane, the better. As someone else once said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you're thinking about adding something to your plane, throw that item up in the air. If it comes back down, don't add it to your plane." You are absolutely correct that you are the builder, and what you build is up to you. That's the beauty of experimental aircraft. We all have a duty to research any changes that we intend to make. Every little change tends to impact on several other things. We just need to be careful about the changes. Good luck with the weight savings, and keep having fun. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings From: "Phillips, Jack" Are you going to redo the drag and anti-drag wires inside the wing? Or are you talking about the flying wires between the lift struts? Trammeling is the process of ensuring the spars are parallel and perpendicular to the chord line - in other words that the wing is straight and square. It would be pretty difficult to do it after it is covered.(hard enough to safety wire all those turnbuckles without trying to do it through an inspection hole). Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Jack, I'm not fimilliar with the term "trammel". I'm getting ready to move my wings back 3" to correct my W & B and will need to redo the drag and anti-drag wires. Any thoughts? Gene ----- Original Message ----- =2Ecom/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ Date: 6/20/2007 2:18 PM _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:55 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. From: "Phillips, Jack" Buy an A65-9 accessory case. Those are pretty rare. They were made for the Mooney Mite, which used the A65 , but with its tricycle gear made hand-propping very uncomfortable and dangerous. Or talk with Bill Rewey at Brodhead. He's got an ingenious starter on his A-65 powered Piet. Jack NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. My electric starter came down with a real hard thud but I wouldn't change it for all the tea in China.It's so nice to just get in there and not have to worry about propping that bugger.Oh the battery came down with a thud too.;-) I'll bet I could even add the generator that came with it and there wouldn't be a hell of a lot of difference in performance either. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: June 21, 2007 2:05 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. John, The only real point I was trying to make was that the extra financial cost of making the fuse wider really is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Now, if you are building multiple Air Campers, like Bernard Pietenpol did, then it begins to have a real impact on costs (it also doesn't hurt to weigh 140 lb or whatever Mr. Pietenpol weighed). Someone commented once that to build one Pietenpol, you make enough parts for three - the third set is usually the best, and that's what goes in the plane. As for weight, I have read many, many times that the lighter you can build your plane, the better. As someone else once said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you're thinking about adding something to your plane, throw that item up in the air. If it comes back down, don't add it to your plane." You are absolutely correct that you are the builder, and what you build is up to you. That's the beauty of experimental aircraft. We all have a duty to research any changes that we intend to make. Every little change tends to impact on several other things. We just need to be careful about the changes. Good luck with the weight savings, and keep having fun. Bill C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:16 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Thanks Jack. Only redoing the flying wires between the lift struts. Walt Evans has been schooling me on moving the wings for my W & B and I had not heard of Trammeling (obviously I didn't build my Piet). Gene ----- Original Message ----- .com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 6/20/2007 2:18 PM ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 6/21/2007 5:53 PM ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:30 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Hi Jack, FYI for everyone that hasn't gotten that far, trammeling would be near impossible after gluing a few sets of ribs to the spars. That sucker gets stiff right away. There is no forgiveness at all once you get going. Before gluing, I put both spars on 3 saw horses (with the ribs loose-laced on) and shimmed-up to a laser line to get all points level with the world. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:55 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. Walt, I can forward you information on A-65 with aftermarket starters applied by the air boat industries. They use a small alternator with a high output starter and use a lycoming ring gear...... Anyway, I seen on of these conversions sell on eBay for $250.00 bucks. I will search for the gentleman who makes the conversion which hangs off the front and uses existing mounting holes and bolts. Ken walt evans wrote: v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. My electric starter came down with a real hard thud but I wouldnt change it for all the tea in China.Its so nice to just get in there and not have to worry about propping that bugger.Oh the battery came down with a thud too.;-) Ill bet I could even add the generator that came with it and there wouldnt be a hell of a lot of difference in performance either. --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: June 21, 2007 2:05 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. John, The only real point I was trying to make was that the extra financial cost of making the fuse wider really is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Now, if you are building multiple Air Campers, like Bernard Pietenpol did, then it begins to have a real impact on costs (it also doesn't hurt to weigh 140 lb or whatever Mr. Pietenpol weighed). Someone commented once that to build one Pietenpol, you make enough parts for three - the third set is usually the best, and that's what goes in the plane. As for weight, I have read many, many times that the lighter you can build your plane, the better. As someone else once said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you're thinking about adding something to your plane, throw that item up in the air. If it comes back down, don't add it to your plane." You are absolutely correct that you are the builder, and what you build is up to you. That's the beauty of experimental aircraft. We all have a duty to research any changes that we intend to make. Every little change tends to impact on several other things. We just need to be careful about the changes. Good luck with the weight savings, and keep having fun. Bill C. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com Kenneth M. Heide, BA,CPO,FAAOP --------------------------------- You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:26 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. Ken, That would be great! I'd love to add a starter. Keep me posted! thanks Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. Walt, I can forward you information on A-65 with aftermarket starters applied by the air boat industries. They use a small alternator with a high output starter and use a lycoming ring gear...... Anyway, I seen on of these conversions sell on eBay for $250.00 bucks. I will search for the gentleman who makes the conversion which hangs off the front and uses existing mounting holes and bolts. Ken walt evans wrote: Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. My electric starter came down with a real hard thud but I wouldn't change it for all the tea in China.It's so nice to just get in there and not have to worry about propping that bugger.Oh the battery came down with a thud too.;-) I'll bet I could even add the generator that came with it and there wouldn't be a hell of a lot of difference in performance either. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: June 21, 2007 2:05 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. John, The only real point I was trying to make was that the extra financial cost of making the fuse wider really is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Now, if you are building multiple Air Campers, like Bernard Pietenpol did, then it begins to have a real impact on costs (it also doesn't hurt to weigh 140 lb or whatever Mr. Pietenpol weighed). Someone commented once that to build one Pietenpol, you make enough parts for three - the third set is usually the best, and that's what goes in the plane. As for weight, I have read many, many times that the lighter you can build your plane, the better. As someone else once said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you're thinking about adding something to your plane, throw that item up in the air. If it comes back down, don't add it to your plane." You are absolutely correct that you are the builder, and what you build is up to you. That's the beauty of experimental aircraft. We all have a duty to research any changes that we intend to make. Every little change tends to impact on several other things. We just need to be careful about the changes. Good luck with the weight savings, and keep having fun. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:50 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rigging Another handy tool for rigging washout and dihedrial (if you put any in) is a surveyers level, or transit as I think it's called. My grandfather used to be a contractor so we had access to one for rigging the piet. Like Mike did we went to a particular rib (2nd or 3rd from the tip) and counted forward from the trailing edge 2 or 3 rib stitches and sighted in on what ever measurement we were going for and thats all there was to it. It flew hands off on the first flight, except in pitch because there is no elevator trim, and I'm 35lbs lighter than Dad. It stalls almost streight ahead, and won't break hard unless you really pull the nose up to 25-30 degrees. Shad --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. From: Amsafetyc@aol.com Bill, The novice builder that I am, I could not agree more with your points and comments. Having never flown or ridden in a Piet, I am amazed at how much I am in love with the process of the build or the idea that so much enjoyment and I get a great airplane at the end too. Enjoy the journey of the build and never loose sight of the prize at the end! Thanks again for your insight. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Church" To: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. John, The only real point I was trying to make was that the extra financial cost of making the fuse wider really is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Now, if you are building multiple Air Campers, like Bernard Pietenpol did, then it begins to have a real impact on costs (it also doesn't hurt to weigh 140 lb or whatever Mr. Pietenpol weighed). Someone commented once that to build one Pietenpol, you make enough parts for three - the third set is usually the best, and that's what goes in the plane. As for weight, I have read many, many times that the lighter you can build your plane, the better. As someone else once said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you're thinking about adding something to your plane, throw that item up in the air. If it comes back down, don't add it to your plane." You are absolutely correct that you are the builder, and what you build is up to you. That's the beauty of experimental aircraft. We all have a duty to research any changes that we intend to make. Every little change tends to impact on several other things. We just need to be careful about the changes. Good luck with the weight savings, and keep having fun. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:56 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Scott Save some money and look for the 3/32 wire at the local hardware store. Also you can use galvanized for the interior cables. Galvanized cable is also better for any of your control cables that pass thru turning blocks. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Dick, thanks for the quick response, I have my bolt list together and just need to add the wire and such. I found the turnbuckles on Wicks right away but searching for 3/32x7/19 didn't turn up anything. Is that any specific type of wire that would be listed in the catalog? -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings Scott 3/32x7/19 is good for internal drag wires with MS21251-b3s turnbuckles. Wing strut fittings are 1/8" 7/19 wire and turnbuckles are MS 21251-b5s. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings I have both wings done sans bracing wire, and need to get that done. I made the fittings and am ready to do the wires. As I understand it the hard wire is either not available or not used? What sort of wire and fittings are appropriate for this? And I suppose I have the same question for the tail brace and the brace wire between the lift struts. Other than the center section I can say I have all the major assemblys done. So it seems I am headed into that last 25% that takes as long as the first 75% or however it breaks down these days. -Scott Schreiber href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:51 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. Jack, I recently ran an ad for the a-65 accessory case and came across several. The case is not the problem. It is the gears and the special mags needed to make the system work. In my opinion, too many "special parts" that need to be rounded up and then you become limited in options when something breaks. Ken Heide Fargo, ND (where the movie failed and the money is lost!) "Phillips, Jack" wrote: v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) } @font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 612.0pt 792.0pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } PRE { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } SPAN.EmailStyle19 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } Buy an A65-9 accessory case. Those are pretty rare. They were made for the Mooney Mite, which used the A65 , but with its tricycle gear made hand-propping very uncomfortable and dangerous. Or talk with Bill Rewey at Brodhead. He's got an ingenious starter on his A-65 powered Piet. Jack NX899JP --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. Speaking of starters,,,Has anyone seen a way to put a starter on an A-65?. Just keep wondering from time to time. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. My electric starter came down with a real hard thud but I wouldnt change it for all the tea in China.Its so nice to just get in there and not have to worry about propping that bugger.Oh the battery came down with a thud too.;-) Ill bet I could even add the generator that came with it and there wouldnt be a hell of a lot of difference in performance either. --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: June 21, 2007 2:05 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wide body. John, The only real point I was trying to make was that the extra financial cost of making the fuse wider really is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Now, if you are building multiple Air Campers, like Bernard Pietenpol did, then it begins to have a real impact on costs (it also doesn't hurt to weigh 140 lb or whatever Mr. Pietenpol weighed). Someone commented once that to build one Pietenpol, you make enough parts for three - the third set is usually the best, and that's what goes in the plane. As for weight, I have read many, many times that the lighter you can build your plane, the better. As someone else once said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If you're thinking about adding something to your plane, throw that item up in the air. If it comes back down, don't add it to your plane." You are absolutely correct that you are the builder, and what you build is up to you. That's the beauty of experimental aircraft. We all have a duty to research any changes that we intend to make. Every little change tends to impact on several other things. We just need to be careful about the changes. Good luck with the weight savings, and keep having fun. Bill C. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ics.com Kenneth M. Heide, BA,CPO,FAAOP --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.