Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:15 AM - Re: rigging (Phillips, Jack)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Scott Schreiber)
3. 05:55 AM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings ()
4. 06:03 AM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Terry Hall)
5. 06:19 AM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Bill Church)
6. 06:25 AM - Re: rigging (Jack T. Textor)
7. 06:39 AM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Michael Groah)
8. 07:07 AM - Re: rigging (Phillips, Jack)
9. 07:18 AM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Phillips, Jack)
10. 08:32 AM - T88 glue (Jeff Hill)
11. 09:21 AM - Re: T88 glue (Gordon Bowen)
12. 09:45 AM - Re: rigging (Bill Church)
13. 09:54 AM - Re: T88 glue (Amsafetyc@aol.com)
14. 10:13 AM - Re: rigging (Dave Abramson)
15. 10:24 AM - Re: rigging (Phillips, Jack)
16. 10:30 AM - Re: rigging (Phillips, Jack)
17. 11:42 AM - cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
18. 11:53 AM - Re: cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level ()
19. 12:13 PM - Re: cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level (Bill Church)
20. 03:42 PM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (Rick Holland)
21. 04:41 PM - Re: cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level (Dick Navratil)
22. 04:49 PM - w/b (Dick Navratil)
23. 09:05 PM - Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (shad bell)
Message 1
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That's what I used in rigging mine - a surveyor's transit. Using it as
Shad described I was able to have each wingtip within 1/16" of each
other in heigt above the longerons. The plane has never needed any
adjustment (I have pitch trim), although rudder trim would be nice.
As Tony Bingelis said "Building an airplane is just one exercise in
alignment after another." But if you build it straight, it will fly
straight.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad
bell
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Another handy tool for rigging washout and dihedrial (if you put any in)
is a surveyers level, or transit as I think it's called. My grandfather
used to be a contractor so we had access to one for rigging the piet.
Like Mike did we went to a particular rib (2nd or 3rd from the tip) and
counted forward from the trailing edge 2 or 3 rib stitches and sighted
in on what ever measurement we were going for and thats all there was to
it. It flew hands off on the first flight, except in pitch because
there is no elevator trim, and I'm 35lbs lighter than Dad. It stalls
almost streight ahead, and won't break hard unless you really pull the
nose up to 25-30 degrees.
Shad
_____
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
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Center.
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings |
More great info. Allow me to demonstrate the expanse of my ignorance.
This is my first plane and I simply don't know a great many details
others take for granted. For example, how does one actually connect the
cable and turnbuckes to the fittings? Do you run the cable and a thimble
through the hole? Do you nicopress on an end fiting and have that hold
it? I really don't know. On the up side, I am amazed at how much I know
now Vs what I started with in October with a set of plans and a garage
full of spruce and ply.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
Hi Scott,
I used 1/8" 1 x 19 cables for my drag and anti-drag wires. You can
find cable in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (page 139 in the current
catalog). Wicks and Dillsburg carry it as well, at generally better
prices.
1 x 19 is stronger than 7 x 19, but is less flexible and can be a real
bear to bend around the thimble and crimp in a nicopress fitting. For
the slight difference in tensile strength, I would not recommend 1 x 19,
but go with the more flexible 7 x 19 cable. There has been discussion
on this list recently about what kind of nicopress fittings to use with
galvanized or stainless cable. Use zinc or nickel plated copper for
stainless cable, bare copper with galvanized cable. I must confess, I
didn't know there was a difference and used bare copper on my stainless
cables. Just another item to check carefully during the annual
condition inspection.
Be careful to trammel the wing accurately when you install and tighten
the drag and anti-drag wires. If your wing is trammeled accurately, and
rigged well the plane will fly pretty much hands off. Skip this step
and you'll find yourself adding ground adjustable trim tabs to your
ailerons.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Counting the days till Brodhead
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:37 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
Dick, thanks for the quick response, I have my bolt list together and
just need to add the wire and such. I found the turnbuckles on Wicks
right away but searching for 3/32x7/19 didn't turn up anything. Is that
any specific type of wire that would be listed in the catalog?
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
Scott
3/32x7/19 is good for internal drag wires with MS21251-b3s
turnbuckles. Wing strut fittings are 1/8" 7/19 wire and turnbuckles
are MS 21251-b5s.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
I have both wings done sans bracing wire, and need to get that
done. I made the fittings and am ready to do the wires. As I understand
it the hard wire is either not available or not used? What sort of wire
and fittings are appropriate for this? And I suppose I have the same
question for the tail brace and the brace wire between the lift struts.
Other than the center section I can say I have all the major assemblys
done. So it seems I am headed into that last 25% that takes as long as
the first 75% or however it breaks down these days.
-Scott Schreiber
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
_________________________________________________
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- N
Message 3
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Subject: | drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings |
I nicopressed at the point under the wings and then used the fork type
connection at the turnbuckle connecting to the fusy.If you look in
Aircraft Spruce you'll see a fork type connection for the turnbuckle
which a bolt will fit through.At the fusy you should have brackets there
with holes in them already.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: June 22, 2007 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
More great info. Allow me to demonstrate the expanse of my ignorance.
This is my first plane and I simply don't know a great many details
others take for granted. For example, how does one actually connect the
cable and turnbuckes to the fittings? Do you run the cable and a thimble
through the hole? Do you nicopress on an end fiting and have that hold
it? I really don't know. On the up side, I am amazed at how much I know
now Vs what I started with in October with a set of plans and a garage
full of spruce and ply.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires
and fittings
Hi Scott,
I used 1/8" 1 x 19 cables for my drag and anti-drag wires. You
can find cable in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (page 139 in the current
catalog). Wicks and Dillsburg carry it as well, at generally better
prices.
1 x 19 is stronger than 7 x 19, but is less flexible and can be
a real bear to bend around the thimble and crimp in a nicopress fitting.
For the slight difference in tensile strength, I would not recommend 1 x
19, but go with the more flexible 7 x 19 cable. There has been
discussion on this list recently about what kind of nicopress fittings
to use with galvanized or stainless cable. Use zinc or nickel plated
copper for stainless cable, bare copper with galvanized cable. I must
confess, I didn't know there was a difference and used bare copper on my
stainless cables. Just another item to check carefully during the
annual condition inspection.
Be careful to trammel the wing accurately when you install and
tighten the drag and anti-drag wires. If your wing is trammeled
accurately, and rigged well the plane will fly pretty much hands off.
Skip this step and you'll find yourself adding ground adjustable trim
tabs to your ailerons.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Counting the days till Brodhead
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:37 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires
and fittings
Dick, thanks for the quick response, I have my bolt list
together and just need to add the wire and such. I found the turnbuckles
on Wicks right away but searching for 3/32x7/19 didn't turn up anything.
Is that any specific type of wire that would be listed in the catalog?
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil <mailto:horzpool@goldengate.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut
wires and fittings
Scott
3/32x7/19 is good for internal drag wires with
MS21251-b3s turnbuckles. Wing strut fittings are 1/8" 7/19 wire and
turnbuckles are MS 21251-b5s.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
<mailto:got22b@subarubrat.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and
strut wires and fittings
I have both wings done sans bracing wire, and
need to get that done. I made the fittings and am ready to do the wires.
As I understand it the hard wire is either not available or not used?
What sort of wire and fittings are appropriate for this? And I suppose I
have the same question for the tail brace and the brace wire between the
lift struts. Other than the center section I can say I have all the
major assemblys done. So it seems I am headed into that last 25% that
takes as long as the first 75% or however it breaks down these days.
-Scott Schreiber
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
r
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may
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you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and
delete
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Nederlands - N
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Message 4
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Subject: | Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings |
Scott, your knowledge will continue to grow the more you solve the
problems you face. I think that I spend more time thinking about how to
accomplish a specific task on my Sky Scout than actually "doing" it.
Terry Hall
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
More great info. Allow me to demonstrate the expanse of my ignorance.
This is my first plane and I simply don't know a great many details
others take for granted. For example, how does one actually connect the
cable and turnbuckes to the fittings? Do you run the cable and a thimble
through the hole? Do you nicopress on an end fiting and have that hold
it? I really don't know. On the up side, I am amazed at how much I know
now Vs what I started with in October with a set of plans and a garage
full of spruce and ply.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
Hi Scott,
I used 1/8" 1 x 19 cables for my drag and anti-drag wires. You can
find cable in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (page 139 in the current
catalog). Wicks and Dillsburg carry it as well, at generally better
prices.
1 x 19 is stronger than 7 x 19, but is less flexible and can be a
real bear to bend around the thimble and crimp in a nicopress fitting.
For the slight difference in tensile strength, I would not recommend 1 x
19, but go with the more flexible 7 x 19 cable. There has been
discussion on this list recently about what kind of nicopress fittings
to use with galvanized or stainless cable. Use zinc or nickel plated
copper for stainless cable, bare copper with galvanized cable. I must
confess, I didn't know there was a difference and used bare copper on my
stainless cables. Just another item to check carefully during the
annual condition inspection.
Be careful to trammel the wing accurately when you install and
tighten the drag and anti-drag wires. If your wing is trammeled
accurately, and rigged well the plane will fly pretty much hands off.
Skip this step and you'll find yourself adding ground adjustable trim
tabs to your ailerons.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Counting the days till Brodhead
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:37 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
Dick, thanks for the quick response, I have my bolt list together
and just need to add the wire and such. I found the turnbuckles on Wicks
right away but searching for 3/32x7/19 didn't turn up anything. Is that
any specific type of wire that would be listed in the catalog?
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
Scott
3/32x7/19 is good for internal drag wires with MS21251-b3s
turnbuckles. Wing strut fittings are 1/8" 7/19 wire and turnbuckles
are MS 21251-b5s.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
I have both wings done sans bracing wire, and need to get that
done. I made the fittings and am ready to do the wires. As I understand
it the hard wire is either not available or not used? What sort of wire
and fittings are appropriate for this? And I suppose I have the same
question for the tail brace and the brace wire between the lift struts.
Other than the center section I can say I have all the major assemblys
done. So it seems I am headed into that last 25% that takes as long as
the first 75% or however it breaks down these days.
-Scott Schreiber
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- N
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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Subject: | drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings |
Scott,
I'm going to beat Mike Cuy to the punch on this one.
Do yourself a big favor and buy the set of Tony Bingelis books.
It will be the best $89 you spend in building your plane.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/bvpages/bingelis.php
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
More great info. Allow me to demonstrate the expanse of my ignorance.
This is my first plane and I simply don't know a great many details
others take for granted. For example, how does one actually connect the
cable and turnbuckes to the fittings? Do you run the cable and a thimble
through the hole? Do you nicopress on an end fiting and have that hold
it? I really don't know. On the up side, I am amazed at how much I know
now Vs what I started with in October with a set of plans and a garage
full of spruce and ply.
-Scott
Message 6
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Has anyone had much luck using a laser type transit? I'm always
concerned about the initial leveling. I did have some luck using one to
level my 16' work bench.
Looking forward to Brodhead!
Jack Textor
Message 7
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Subject: | drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings |
Also going to westcoastpiet.com and looking through the pictures can be helpful
if you're confused about a part or assembly. Just make sure to look at several
builders pics as sometimes different builders do things in thier own way.
Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote: Scott,
I'm going to beat Mike Cuy to the punch on this one.
Do yourself a big favor and buy the set of Tony Bingelis books.
It will be the best $89 you spend in building your plane.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/bvpages/bingelis.php
Bill C.
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings
More great info. Allow me to demonstrate the expanse of my ignorance. This is
my first plane and I simply don't know a great many details others take for granted.
For example, how does one actually connect the cable and turnbuckes to
the fittings? Do you run the cable and a thimble through the hole? Do you nicopress
on an end fiting and have that hold it? I really don't know. On the up
side, I am amazed at how much I know now Vs what I started with in October with
a set of plans and a garage full of spruce and ply.
-Scott
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
Message 8
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I started by using a laser level. I found the beam is about 1/8" to
3/16" in diameter and you can get MUCH better resolution with an optical
transit. Laser levels and transits are accurate enough for home
builders (I mean house builders) where the tolerances are generally +/-
1/4" or more, but for fine work use an optical transit.
Jack Phillips
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T.
Textor
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Has anyone had much luck using a laser type transit? I'm always
concerned about the initial leveling. I did have some luck using one to
level my 16' work bench.
Looking forward to Brodhead!
Jack Textor
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
Message 9
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Subject: | drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings |
Hi Scott,
The "certified" way to go is to use AN 115 cable shackles with clevis
pins. Latest AS&S catalog shows the AN 115-21 which is used with 3/32"
or 1/8" cable at $10.80 each. Many people have made satisfactory
shackles from motorcycle chain links at a fraction of that price. The
turnbuckles and shackles can easily add up to more than the cost of the
wood in this airplane, because there are a LOT of cables.
In general you don't want to pass the cable through your fitting in
order to make removal easier (you would have to cut the cable or remove
the fitting). But in the interest of saving money and weight, it could
certainly be done.
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and
fittings
More great info. Allow me to demonstrate the expanse of my ignorance.
This is my first plane and I simply don't know a great many details
others take for granted. For example, how does one actually connect the
cable and turnbuckes to the fittings? Do you run the cable and a thimble
through the hole? Do you nicopress on an end fiting and have that hold
it? I really don't know. On the up side, I am amazed at how much I know
now Vs what I started with in October with a set of plans and a garage
full of spruce and ply.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires
and fittings
Hi Scott,
I used 1/8" 1 x 19 cables for my drag and anti-drag wires. You
can find cable in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (page 139 in the current
catalog). Wicks and Dillsburg carry it as well, at generally better
prices.
1 x 19 is stronger than 7 x 19, but is less flexible and can be
a real bear to bend around the thimble and crimp in a nicopress fitting.
For the slight difference in tensile strength, I would not recommend 1 x
19, but go with the more flexible 7 x 19 cable. There has been
discussion on this list recently about what kind of nicopress fittings
to use with galvanized or stainless cable. Use zinc or nickel plated
copper for stainless cable, bare copper with galvanized cable. I must
confess, I didn't know there was a difference and used bare copper on my
stainless cables. Just another item to check carefully during the
annual condition inspection.
Be careful to trammel the wing accurately when you install and
tighten the drag and anti-drag wires. If your wing is trammeled
accurately, and rigged well the plane will fly pretty much hands off.
Skip this step and you'll find yourself adding ground adjustable trim
tabs to your ailerons.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Counting the days till Brodhead
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:37 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires
and fittings
Dick, thanks for the quick response, I have my bolt list
together and just need to add the wire and such. I found the turnbuckles
on Wicks right away but searching for 3/32x7/19 didn't turn up anything.
Is that any specific type of wire that would be listed in the catalog?
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil <mailto:horzpool@goldengate.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut
wires and fittings
Scott
3/32x7/19 is good for internal drag wires with
MS21251-b3s turnbuckles. Wing strut fittings are 1/8" 7/19 wire and
turnbuckles are MS 21251-b5s.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
<mailto:got22b@subarubrat.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and
strut wires and fittings
I have both wings done sans bracing wire, and
need to get that done. I made the fittings and am ready to do the wires.
As I understand it the hard wire is either not available or not used?
What sort of wire and fittings are appropriate for this? And I suppose I
have the same question for the tail brace and the brace wire between the
lift struts. Other than the center section I can say I have all the
major assemblys done. So it seems I am headed into that last 25% that
takes as long as the first 75% or however it breaks down these days.
-Scott Schreiber
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
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A couple of days ago I saw a post saying that resourcinol was the only glue
that has a mil spec number. I have also seen a mil spec number for T88 in
an article on homebuilding. Can this be confirmed by anybody? Unfortunately
West System epoxy does not have a number but it is a fantastic glue and fa
r more versatile than T88 because of the micro fibers that can be added for
viscosity and strength and sandability. It is also less expensive.
Jeff Hill planning for Brodhead
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Jeff,
I spent 30 years in the epoxy and urethane industry, can assure you that
not all epoxy formulas are for wood bonding. Wood has a residual water
content, even when dried. The epoxy formula has to have an additive
that will bond with the water molecules plus mechanically bond to the
wood fibers to be totally effective. If you decide to try other systems
for "glueing" your plane together, do some testing on your own and/or
get the original manufacturers actual test data bonding wood.
Saf-t-poxy and RAE originally developed for Rutan-type composites was
not optimized for wood bonding, it was designed for fiberglass
laminates. There are 1000's of epoxy formulas, for applications as
varied as electrical potting to wood boat building. Many of the wood
boat building formulas are lower in viscosity that T-88 and can be
filled with fiberglass strands, for fumed silica (Cab-o-sil) or bulking
fillers like glass microballons, I would not recommend cotton flox as a
thickener for possible wet wood applications. T-88 has a long history
in wood bonding and is thicker so it won't run out of the gap you're
trying to bond, plus T-88 has a long history in homebuilt aeroplanes.
Some of the West system epoxies are for fiberglass composites and some
are for wood boat applications. Do a little homework on the
manufacturer's websites before you make up your mind about a product as
important as the stuff that's holding your plane together.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Hill
To: Pietenpol pietlist
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T88 glue
A couple of days ago I saw a post saying that resourcinol was the only
glue that has a mil spec number. I have also seen a mil spec number for
T88 in an article on homebuilding. Can this be confirmed by anybody?
Unfortunately West System epoxy does not have a number but it is a
fantastic glue and far more versatile than T88 because of the micro
fibers that can be added for viscosity and strength and sandability. It
is also less expensive.
Jeff Hill planning for Brodhead
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That's the big thing about laser levels.
The laser line is always straight, even with dollar store laser
pointers. The better quality lasers stay focussed, and the cheap ones
diverge (beam widens) the further you get from the source. The better
ones also have a much finer line to start with. The cheap ones start out
about 1/8" wide, which isn't very easy to get precise measurements with.
Now, when I say "better" I am talking about industrial/construction type
surveying laser levels, where the laser beam is only 1/32" wide - and
one of those is going to run about $1000 (ouch!).
If you can get hold of one of the "old fashioned" optical surveying
transits (actually called a theodolite), that's definitely the more
precise tool. You should be able to rent one for about $25 a day from
just about any tool rental place.
Bill C.
________________________________
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Has anyone had much luck using a laser type transit? I'm always
concerned about the initial leveling. I did have some luck using one to
level my 16' work bench.
Looking forward to Brodhead!
Jack Textor
Message 13
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Jeff,
For what its worth, I am using West Systems epoxy with the occasional addition.
of the micro fiber for filler applications. I really like the mix, application
and hold. The stuff works great!
I use the slow cure hardner. for the additional pot life, seems like the stuff
has several application options.
Just my opinion
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
To:<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T88 glue
Jeff,
I spent 30 years in the epoxy and urethane industry, can assure you that not all
epoxy formulas are for wood bonding. Wood has a residual water content, even
when dried. The epoxy formula has to have an additive that will bond with the
water molecules plus mechanically bond to the wood fibers to be totally effective.
If you decide to try other systems for "glueing" your plane together, do
some testing on your own and/or get the original manufacturers actual test data
bonding wood. Saf-t-poxy and RAE originally developed for Rutan-type composites
was not optimized for wood bonding, it was designed for fiberglass laminates.
There are 1000's of epoxy formulas, for applications as varied as electrical
potting to wood boat building. Many of the wood boat building formulas are
lower in viscosity that T-88 and can be filled with fiberglass strands, for fumed
silica (Cab-o-sil)or bulking fillers like glassmicroballons, I would not
recommend cotton flox as a thickener for possible wet wood applications. T-88
has a long history in wood bonding and is thicker so it won't run out of the gap
you're trying to bond, plus T-88 has a long history in homebuilt aeroplanes.
Some of the West system epoxies are for fiberglass composites and some are for
wood boat applications. Do a little homework on the manufacturer's websites
before you make up your mind about a product as important as the stuff that's
holding your plane together.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff
Hill <mailto:jeff2dogs@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T88 glue
A couple of days ago I saw a post saying that resourcinol was the only glue that
has a mil spec number. I have also seen a mil spec number for T88 in an article
on homebuilding. Can this be confirmed by anybody? Unfortunately West System
epoxy does not have a number but it is a fantastic glue and far more versatile
than T88 because of the micro fibers that can be added for viscosity and strength
and sandability. It is also less expensive.
Jeff Hill planning for Brodhead
----------------
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I don't think BP used a laser level... Is this overkill????
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
That's the big thing about laser levels.
The laser line is always straight, even with dollar store laser pointers.
The better quality lasers stay focussed, and the cheap ones diverge (beam
widens) the further you get from the source. The better ones also have a
much finer line to start with. The cheap ones start out about 1/8" wide,
which isn't very easy to get precise measurements with.
Now, when I say "better" I am talking about industrial/construction type
surveying laser levels, where the laser beam is only 1/32" wide - and one of
those is going to run about $1000 (ouch!).
If you can get hold of one of the "old fashioned" optical surveying transits
(actually called a theodolite), that's definitely the more precise tool. You
should be able to rent one for about $25 a day from just about any tool
rental place.
Bill C.
_____
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Has anyone had much luck using a laser type transit? I'm always concerned
about the initial leveling. I did have some luck using one to level my 16'
work bench.
Looking forward to Brodhead!
Jack Textor
Message 15
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|
You don't actually need a theodolite. What I used is what's called a
"Dumpy" Level. It is basically a theodolite without the ability to
measure angles from the horizontal. It swivels on a leveled tripod and
can be used to accurately measure changes in elevation. I borrowed one
from a friend, then ended up buying one from Sears for a couple hundred
bucks.
Jack Phillips
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
That's the big thing about laser levels.
The laser line is always straight, even with dollar store laser
pointers. The better quality lasers stay focussed, and the cheap ones
diverge (beam widens) the further you get from the source. The better
ones also have a much finer line to start with. The cheap ones start out
about 1/8" wide, which isn't very easy to get precise measurements with.
Now, when I say "better" I am talking about industrial/construction type
surveying laser levels, where the laser beam is only 1/32" wide - and
one of those is going to run about $1000 (ouch!).
If you can get hold of one of the "old fashioned" optical surveying
transits (actually called a theodolite), that's definitely the more
precise tool. You should be able to rent one for about $25 a day from
just about any tool rental place.
Bill C.
_____
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Has anyone had much luck using a laser type transit? I'm always
concerned about the initial leveling. I did have some luck using one to
level my 16' work bench.
Looking forward to Brodhead!
Jack Textor
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
Message 16
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|
It's only overkill if you don't mind flying a Chinese Cross-Country (One
Wing Low). Seriously, it doesn't matter how you achieve it, but a
well-rigged airplane will fly better than a poorly rigged one. And just
because BHP didn't do it that way doesn't mean it isn't better. How
many of you are flying Pietenpols with the stabilizer screwed into the
longerons with #7 wood screws?
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Abramson
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:12 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
I don't think BP used a laser level....... Is this overkill????
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
That's the big thing about laser levels.
The laser line is always straight, even with dollar store laser
pointers. The better quality lasers stay focussed, and the cheap ones
diverge (beam widens) the further you get from the source. The better
ones also have a much finer line to start with. The cheap ones start out
about 1/8" wide, which isn't very easy to get precise measurements with.
Now, when I say "better" I am talking about industrial/construction type
surveying laser levels, where the laser beam is only 1/32" wide - and
one of those is going to run about $1000 (ouch!).
If you can get hold of one of the "old fashioned" optical surveying
transits (actually called a theodolite), that's definitely the more
precise tool. You should be able to rent one for about $25 a day from
just about any tool rental place.
Bill C.
_____
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Has anyone had much luck using a laser type transit? I'm always
concerned about the initial leveling. I did have some luck using one to
level my 16' work bench.
Looking forward to Brodhead!
Jack Textor
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________
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d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
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Message 17
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Subject: | cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level |
I have assisted others with rigging (a biplane as well) wings and other
flying surfaces using a length of simple Tygon clear plastic
tubing from Home Depot or Lowes filled with water. The water always
seeks level and can be used to level your longerons, wings, fuselage,
tailfeathers and even your tree house.
Mike C.
Message 18
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Subject: | cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level |
That's an excellent idea but wouldn't you have to leave a bubble in
there?Or maybe half fill the tube.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: June 22, 2007 2:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level
I have assisted others with rigging (a biplane as well) wings and other
flying surfaces using a length of simple Tygon clear plastic
tubing from Home Depot or Lowes filled with water. The water always
seeks level and can be used to level your longerons, wings, fuselage,
tailfeathers and even your tree house.
Mike C.
Message 19
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Subject: | cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level |
Harvey,
Check this out.
I'm pretty sure this is what Mike was referring to.
http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/WaterLevel.htm
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
harvey.rule@bell.ca
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level
That's an excellent idea but wouldn't you have to leave a bubble in
there?Or maybe half fill the tube.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: June 22, 2007 2:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level
I have assisted others with rigging (a biplane as well) wings and other
flying surfaces using a length of simple Tygon clear plastic
tubing from Home Depot or Lowes filled with water. The water always
seeks level and can be used to level your longerons, wings, fuselage,
tailfeathers and even your tree house.
Mike C.
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions |
Don't know if its that hard to believe that you can get sued in this country
for distributing plans. Dick Rutan stopped selling his EZ plans for the
same reason I assume. Interesting question about legal liability of
reselling some plans that you don't use (or selling someone a part that you
built for a homebuilt, like a set of ribs).
Rick
On 6/18/07, DJ Vegh <dj@veghdesign.com> wrote:
>
> I'm almost certain that he withdrew the plans because he's nervous about
> liability issues. kinda dumb really. how many Piets/GN-1's have you seen go
> down and the copyright owner of the plans get sued?
>
> I wonder though what the legal issues are if someone bought plans but then
> decides they do not want them and wish to sell.
>
> I believe it's all legit. much like selling a used book or music CD.
> Could probably find folks out there who wish to sell their plans
>
> DJ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* baileys <baileys@ktis.net>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, June 18, 2007 11:12 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and
> other questions
>
> Umm, side note - I believe the GN-1 plans have been withdrawn from the
> market. Mr. Grega passed away some time back and his son was selling the
> plans, but now he has taken them off the market.
>
> Maybe someone has more information on the matter.
> Bob B.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Greg Heath <kb2qqm@mac.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, June 18, 2007 12:20 AM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and
> other questions
>
>
> I just joined the group and am contemplating building a Pietenpol. Those
> of you who have completed an aircraft, what final figure did you come up
> with for a final monetary cost? I am trying to plan for the budget.
>
> I also see there are 2 plans available ,one for a Pietenpol and one for a
> GN-1. What is the difference between them?
>
> I am looking for specs. What is the width of the cockpit backseat? (
> Width and legroom length)
>
> Are there brakes...? (yea, ok, this might be a stupid question, but I
> don't know...so I am asking anyway)
>
> Thanks for any help you can shoot my way...
>
>
> Please respond to my home email at kb2qqm@mac.com
>
> Thanks..
>
> Greg H
> Racine, p; Features Subscriptions href="
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matp;
> available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">
> http://forums.matronics.com*
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level |
I had used the water level in construction for years and for the most
part they work well as long as somebody doesn't stand on the tube while
you are measuring. I like the Lazers but I was setting up my new plane
today and I havent used either to this point. The basics need to be in
place first. Fuselage perfectly level,Cabane struts straight, lift
struts the same length , pin to pin. and wing tips to tail even. Then
break out the lazer to fine tune.
And lots of patience.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cheap, easy, accurate---use a water level
I have assisted others with rigging (a biplane as well) wings and
other flying surfaces using a length of simple Tygon clear plastic
tubing from Home Depot or Lowes filled with water. The water always
seeks level and can be used to level your longerons, wings, fuselage,
tailfeathers and even your tree house.
Mike C.
Message 22
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Does anyone with a long fuse with a Corvair engine have weight balance
figures they would be willing to share? I am finishing my Rotec Piet
and would like to compare.
Please send direct horzpool@goldengate.net
Dick N
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Subject: | Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! |
I can't believe this! The engine ran smooth for 4 hrs, and now it is doing the
same thing it did last year, on the old engine. We changed the gasket on the
oil pump cover from a .009 in to a .007 in thick gasket. We pulled the distributer
out to check the drag on the oil pump gears, and put it back in and re-timed
the ignition to 12 btdc. I ran it up tied down to make sure it made full
static rpm (3300-3400 rpm)and it did. So I climb in after I untied it and was
climbing out for about 2 min and BAMM! Just like last year it started running
rough and lost 600-700 rpm at full throttle. After pulling the throttle back
it would run smooth at 2900-3000 rpm, but put it back to wide open and it would
loose power after about 10-15 seconds. Does anybody have an Idea as to what
is going on? I tried it again when I was on the ground and when it started
loosing power I gave it a slow shot of primer and it did not rise in rpm, so
probably not an induction leak, also tried carb
heat (to enrichen the mixture) no help. We have 2 sets of points and coils, switching
coils and points made no difference. I dont know if it is cross firing
or if a valve is floating, but it seems like it won't act up untill the CHT
reaches 340-350 degrees, which is about 100 degrees below red line. Hopefully
we can get ahold of William Wynne tomorrow so we can fly this jalopy. The frustrating
part is that 80% of this engine is new. Maybe the 20% part is bad?
This research and development is getting old, but I'm sure I will learn a boatload
if we ever get it figgured out. I GUESS THAT WHY THEY CALL THEM EXPERIMENTAL.....I
THINK I WOULD CALL IT TEMPERMENTAL!
I'm still going over to Wyncoop tommorow, but I guess I'll take the motercycle.
Shad
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