---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/23/07: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:08 AM - Re: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (Ryan Michalkiewicz) 2. 04:37 AM - Re: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (Gene & Tammy) 3. 06:11 AM - Re: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions (Tom Bernie) 4. 06:43 AM - Re: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (HVandervoo@aol.com) 5. 06:53 AM - Re: rigging (HVandervoo@aol.com) 6. 07:56 AM - finally ordered some plans... (Gregory Heath) 7. 08:06 AM - finally ordered some plans... (Gregory Heath) 8. 08:17 AM - Re: w/b (Roman Bukolt) 9. 08:25 AM - Re: finally ordered some plans... (Amsafetyc@aol.com) 10. 08:32 AM - Re: engine (Amsafetyc@aol.com) 11. 09:24 AM - Re: Re: engine (Rick Holland) 12. 09:24 AM - Re: finally ordered some plans... (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 13. 10:56 AM - Water Levels, Stickey Valves, Broken Valve Springs (Michael Fisher) 14. 11:21 AM - Re: Finally ordered some plans (Lynn Knoll) 15. 11:49 AM - Moving wing for W & B (Gene & Tammy) 16. 01:01 PM - Re: Moving wing for W & B (Gordon Bowen) 17. 01:06 PM - Re: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (shad bell) 18. 02:59 PM - Re: finally ordered some plans... (HelsperSew@aol.com) 19. 04:29 PM - Re: Moving wing for W & B (Gene & Tammy) 20. 05:11 PM - Re: Moving wing for W & B (Gordon Bowen) 21. 06:03 PM - Re: Moving wing for W & B (Dick Navratil) 22. 06:40 PM - Re: Moving wing for W & B (Gene & Tammy) 23. 07:28 PM - Re: Moving wing for W & B(changed to NR airshow) (del magsam) 24. 07:44 PM - Re: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (shad bell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:59 AM PST US From: Ryan Michalkiewicz Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Are you getting enough fuel flow? I have checked this on my Champ before. I'll have to dig up what the numbers were. I was surprised how much volume came out of that hose in such little time. Good luck Ryan shad bell wrote: I can't believe this! The engine ran smooth for 4 hrs, and now it is doing the same thing it did last year, on the old engine. We changed the gasket on the oil pump cover from a .009 in to a .007 in thick gasket. We pulled the distributer out to check the drag on the oil pump gears, and put it back in and re-timed the ignition to 12 btdc. I ran it up tied down to make sure it made full static rpm (3300-3400 rpm)and it did. So I climb in after I untied it and was climbing out for about 2 min and BAMM! Just like last year it started running rough and lost 600-700 rpm at full throttle. After pulling the throttle back it would run smooth at 2900-3000 rpm, but put it back to wide open and it would loose power after about 10-15 seconds. Does anybody have an Idea as to what is going on? I tried it again when I was on the ground and when it started loosing power I gave it a slow shot of primer and it did not rise in rpm, so probably not an induction leak, also tried carb heat (to enrichen the mixture) no help. We have 2 sets of points and coils, switching coils and points made no difference. I dont know if it is cross firing or if a valve is floating, but it seems like it won't act up untill the CHT reaches 340-350 degrees, which is about 100 degrees below red line. Hopefully we can get ahold of William Wynne tomorrow so we can fly this jalopy. The frustrating part is that 80% of this engine is new. Maybe the 20% part is bad? This research and development is getting old, but I'm sure I will learn a boatload if we ever get it figgured out. I GUESS THAT WHY THEY CALL THEM EXPERIMENTAL.....I THINK I WOULD CALL IT TEMPERMENTAL! I'm still going over to Wyncoop tommorow, but I guess I'll take the motercycle. Shad --------------------------------- Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:30 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Shad, For what it's worth I agree with Ryan that you need to check your fuel flow rate thru your hose. A few years ago I put a J3 down in a field off the end of a runway because of loss of RPM. What I found was that there was a restriction in the fuel line. Just enough that the engine would run wide open for a little while (long enough for take off) but then couldn't keep up with engine demands. I pulled the hose off before the carb and timed the fuel as I filled a gallon jug. I've also heard of the same thing happening to a pilot when someone pulled an electrical tie tight that was securing the fuel line. Gene Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 6/21/2007 5:53 PM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your completed Pietenpol and other questions From: Tom Bernie Guys, I have a different theory. -- I'm building from a set of CAD plans (#36/6AC) purchased in Feb '06 and I'm 95% done. I may be the first builder completing a GN-1 from the CAD plans. As soon as I got into the project, numerous errors in the plans became apparent. Grega sent out only only one revision, and thereafter would not address the the problem. I think the cost and effort to make the plans right was more than he had an appetite for. Tom Bernie Gloucester, Mass. On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 15:42 -0700, Rick Holland wrote: > Don't know if its that hard to believe that you can get sued in this > country for distributing plans. Dick Rutan stopped selling his EZ > plans for the same reason I assume. Interesting question about legal > liability of reselling some plans that you don't use (or selling > someone a part that you built for a homebuilt, like a set of ribs). > > Rick > > On 6/18/07, DJ Vegh wrote: > I'm almost certain that he withdrew the plans because he's > nervous about liability issues. kinda dumb really. how many > Piets/GN-1's have you seen go down and the copyright owner > of the plans get sued? > > I wonder though what the legal issues are if someone bought > plans but then decides they do not want them and wish to > sell. > > I believe it's all legit. much like selling a used book or > music CD. Could probably find folks out there who wish to > sell their plans > > DJ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: baileys > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your > completed Pietenpol and other questions > > > Umm, side note - I believe the GN-1 plans have been > withdrawn from the market. Mr. Grega passed away some > time back and his son was selling the plans, but now > he has taken them off the market. > > Maybe someone has more information on the matter. > Bob B. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg Heath > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:20 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cost to build your > completed Pietenpol and other questions > > > Heath > > I just joined the group and am contemplating > building a Pietenpol. Those of you who have > completed an aircraft, what final figure did > you come up with for a final monetary cost? I > am trying to plan for the budget. > > I also see there are 2 plans available ,one > for a Pietenpol and one for a GN-1. What is > the difference between them? > > I am looking for specs. What is the width of > the cockpit backseat? ( Width and legroom > length) > > Are there brakes...? (yea, ok, this might be > a stupid question, but I don't know...so I am > asking anyway) > > Thanks for any help you can shoot my way... > > > > Please respond to my home email at > kb2qqm@mac.com > > Thanks.. > > Greg H > Racine, p; Features Subscriptions > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com"> > http://forums.matronics.com > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:01 AM PST US From: HVandervoo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Shad, Mogas or Avgas? Symptoms seem like detonation. Hans ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:46 AM PST US From: HVandervoo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rigging Stand the tail wheel on a 3 feet high stool, eyeball the wing bottom and trailing edge of the wing from the center rear of the Airplane. A twist or difference between wings should be clearly visible. Jack, I do not have a # 7 screw in the longeron, Used a # 8, was not able to find a # 7. Hans ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:26 AM PST US From: Gregory Heath Subject: Pietenpol-List: finally ordered some plans... I have taken the plunge. I emailed Mr. Grega at the GN-1website after I registered and said I wanted to order plans. He responded that Plans are not available at this time... So what was the point of me registering on his website ? So being that there are no plans for the GN-1, and me being on a business trip for 4 days in various hotels across the US...with nothing to do but surf the internet for hours....I started looking at some of the great website pictures on the original Pietenpol. There are some great looking airplanes out there. I even pulled up some of the great videos on YouTube.com for the Pietenpol. The internet is a great place for airplane building...the more you see the more you want. So the "wants" took over, and I ordered plans for the Pietenpol, for $148, plus $30 for the manual notes...and the rib blank for $16. It's official now. This has taken quite awhile for me to come to this conclusion. I have been searching for an airplane for about a year now. I had it narrowed down to a Zenith CH-601, 801, Aeronca Champ, Piper Colt...and even the airplanes from my friend Don Stewart www.stewartaircraft.com but something kept bringing me back to the Pietenpol. Yes the other airplanes are nice...but relatively expensive. Allot of them are not scratch buildable. To be quite honest, there is something about a wood airplane and a simple one at that ...that is appealing. I just miss flying...the way flying is supposed to be. No GPS, no RNAV approaches, ...just the wind in the wires. I spend all day at FL370. Let me tell you first hand it's a great job. But you are not flying, the computer is, and you can't fly low and slow... Well except in the flare...and you have to wear a blue polyester suit... and you sometimes don't get to go where you want to go. Most of the time I am looking out the window imagining some lucky guy flying in his pietenpol low over the trees. That's where I want to be. I just miss the low and slow stuff and the pietenpol is my way back to the flying that I miss. I have started learning all I can from this list...and it is going to be a great resource. I hope you won't mind my 'stupid' questions. I am fired up again. Thanks for reading. Gregory Heath kb2qqm@mac.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:12 AM PST US From: Gregory Heath Subject: Pietenpol-List: finally ordered some plans... I have taken the plunge. I emailed Mr. Grega at the GN-1website after I registered and said I wanted to order plans. He responded that Plans are not available at this time... So what was the point of me registering on his website ? So being that there are no plans for the GN-1, and me being on a business trip for 4 days in various hotels across the US...with nothing to do but surf the internet for hours....I started looking at some of the great website pictures on the original Pietenpol. There are some great looking airplanes out there. I even pulled up some of the great videos on YouTube.com for the Pietenpol. The internet is a great place for airplane building...the more you see the more you want. So the "wants" took over, and I ordered plans for the Pietenpol, for $148, plus $30 for the manual notes...and the rib blank for $16. It's official now. This has taken quite awhile for me to come to this conclusion. I have been searching for an airplane for about a year now. I had it narrowed down to a Zenith CH-601, 801, Aeronca Champ, Piper Colt...and even the airplanes from my friend Don Stewart www.stewartaircraft.com but something kept bringing me back to the Pietenpol. Yes the other airplanes are nice...but relatively expensive. Allot of them are not scratch buildable. To be quite honest, there is something about a wood airplane and a simple one at that ...that is appealing. I just miss flying...the way flying is supposed to be. No GPS, no RNAV approaches, ...just the wind in the wires. I spend all day at FL370. Let me tell you first hand it's a great job. But you are not flying, the computer is, and you can't fly low and slow... Well except in the flare...and you have to wear a blue polyester suit... and you sometimes don't get to go where you want to go. Most of the time I am looking out the window imagining some lucky guy flying in his pietenpol low over the trees. That's where I want to be. I just miss the low and slow stuff and the pietenpol is my way back to the flying that I miss. I have started learning all I can from this list...and it is going to be a great resource. I hope you won't mind my 'stupid' questions. I am fired up again. Thanks for reading. Gregory Heath kb2qqm@mac.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:21 AM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: w/b Dick, I think I may have the original W/B numbers for my Piet which was built for the Corvair engine with a long fuse. I don't have time right now but I'll see if can dig them up. This plane mentioned in Chet Peeks book originally had a Corvair which froze up. (Wrong lube) then was converted to a Cont. A-65. I didn't build it. Ray Hill did in 1990 and I bought it last Fall. Roman bukolt NX20795 Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: w/b Does anyone with a long fuse with a Corvair engine have weight balance figures they would be willing to share? I am finishing my Rotec Piet and would like to compare. Please send direct horzpool@goldengate.net Dick N ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: finally ordered some plans... From: Amsafetyc@aol.com Welcome friend it sure sounds like you got captured by the Piet. I believe you will find much pleasure in the build process. Congrats and welcome, you will find no better a group than here, and they don't mind questions no matter how basic. Building a Piet and joining ths group has been one of my best decisions. In time I am certain you will agree. Best of luck, go forth and glue sticks! John Reserved NX895BP Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Heath To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: finally ordered some plans... I have taken the plunge. I emailed Mr. Grega at the GN-1website after I registered and said I wanted to order plans. He responded that Plans are not available at this time... So what was the point of me registering on his website ? So being that there are no plans for the GN-1, and me being on a business trip for 4 days in various hotels across the US...with nothing to do but surf the internet for hours....I started looking at some of the great website pictures on the original Pietenpol. There are some great looking airplanes out there. I even pulled up some of the great videos on YouTube.com for the Pietenpol. The internet is a great place for airplane building...the more you see the more you want. So the "wants" took over, and I ordered plans for the Pietenpol, for $148, plus $30 for the manual notes...and the rib blank for $16. It's official now. This has taken quite awhile for me to come to this conclusion. I have been searching for an airplane for about a year now. I had it narrowed down to a Zenith CH-601, 801, Aeronca Champ, Piper Colt...and even the airplanes from my friend Don Stewart www.stewartaircraft.com but something kept bringing me back to the Pietenpol. Yes the other airplanes are nice...but relatively expensive. Allot of them are not scratch buildable. To be quite honest, there is something about a wood airplane and a simple one at that ...that is appealing. I just miss flying...the way flying is supposed to be. No GPS, no RNAV approaches, ...just the wind in the wires. I spend all day at FL370. Let me tell you first hand it's a great job. But you are not flying, the computer is, and you can't fly low and slow... Well except in the flare...and you have to wear a blue polyester suit... and you sometimes don't get to go where you want to go. Most of the time I am looking out the window imagining some lucky guy flying in his pietenpol low over the trees. That's where I want to be. I just miss the low and slow stuff and the pietenpol is my way back to the flying that I miss. I have started learning all I can from this list...and it is going to be a great resource. I hope you won't mind my 'stupid' questions. I am fired up again. Thanks for reading. Gregory Heath kb2qqm@mac.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine From: Amsafetyc@aol.com Okay gang here we go again. I got 2 partial model A engines and a brand new 2.3 L OHC ford pinto engine. The model A are incomplete and I doubt will have the hp to launch my ship. That leaves the 2.3 as a potentil. Any advice or experience in getting a great engine out of the new 2.3? John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Heath To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: finally ordered some plans... I have taken the plunge. I emailed Mr. Grega at the GN-1website after I registered and said I wanted to order plans. He responded that Plans are not available at this time... So what was the point of me registering on his website ? So being that there are no plans for the GN-1, and me being on a business trip for 4 days in various hotels across the US...with nothing to do but surf the internet for hours....I started looking at some of the great website pictures on the original Pietenpol. There are some great looking airplanes out there. I even pulled up some of the great videos on YouTube.com for the Pietenpol. The internet is a great place for airplane building...the more you see the more you want. So the "wants" took over, and I ordered plans for the Pietenpol, for $148, plus $30 for the manual notes...and the rib blank for $16. It's official now. This has taken quite awhile for me to come to this conclusion. I have been searching for an airplane for about a year now. I had it narrowed down to a Zenith CH-601, 801, Aeronca Champ, Piper Colt...and even the airplanes from my friend Don Stewart www.stewartaircraft.com but something kept bringing me back to the Pietenpol. Yes the other airplanes are nice...but relatively expensive. Allot of them are not scratch buildable. To be quite honest, there is something about a wood airplane and a simple one at that ...that is appealing. I just miss flying...the way flying is supposed to be. No GPS, no RNAV approaches, ...just the wind in the wires. I spend all day at FL370. Let me tell you first hand it's a great job. But you are not flying, the computer is, and you can't fly low and slow... Well except in the flare...and you have to wear a blue polyester suit... and you sometimes don't get to go where you want to go. Most of the time I am looking out the window imagining some lucky guy flying in his pietenpol low over the trees. That's where I want to be. I just miss the low and slow stuff and the pietenpol is my way back to the flying that I miss. I have started learning all I can from this list...and it is going to be a great resource. I hope you won't mind my 'stupid' questions. I am fired up again. Thanks for reading. Gregory Heath kb2qqm@mac.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:41 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine Gregory Congratulations. From your post there is no doubt that you are Pietenpol material. Do yourself a big favor and try to make it to the Broadhead Pietenpol annual gathering the weekend of July 21 and 22 in Broadhead WI (less than a month away), you can meet a lot of the people that you will be talking with on this forum. Lots of Pietenpols, builders, food, and lots of other vintage aircraft, all grass runways, just like the good old days. Other mandatory reading material includes the four Bingelis books (can get all four at once from the EAA website) and Chet Peak's Pietenpol Story book. Your life is about to be changed forever. Rick On 6/23/07, Amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: > > > Okay gang here we go again. I got 2 partial model A engines and a brand > new 2.3 L OHC ford pinto engine. The model A are incomplete and I doubt > will have the hp to launch my ship. That leaves the 2.3 as a potentil. Any > advice or experience in getting a great engine out of the new 2.3? > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregory Heath > > Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:55:36 > To:pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: finally ordered some plans... > > > I have taken the plunge. I emailed Mr. Grega at the GN-1website after I > registered and said I wanted to order plans. He responded that Plans are not > available at this time... So what was the point of me registering on his > website ? > > > So being that there are no plans for the GN-1, and me being on a business > trip for 4 days in various hotels across the US...with nothing to do but > surf the internet for hours....I started looking at some of the great > website pictures on the original Pietenpol. There are some great looking > airplanes out there. I even pulled up some of the great videos on > YouTube.com for the Pietenpol. The internet is a great place for airplane > building...the more you see the more you want. > > > So the "wants" took over, and I ordered plans for the Pietenpol, for $148, > plus $30 for the manual notes...and the rib blank for $16. > It's official now. > This has taken quite awhile for me to come to this conclusion. I have been > searching for an airplane for about a year now. I had it narrowed down to a > Zenith CH-601, 801, Aeronca Champ, Piper Colt...and even the airplanes > from my friend Don Stewart www.stewartaircraft.com < > http://www.stewartaircraft.com> but something kept bringing me back to the > Pietenpol. > > > Yes the other airplanes are nice...but relatively expensive. Allot of them > are not scratch buildable. To be quite honest, there is something about a > wood airplane and a simple one at that ...that is appealing. I just miss > flying...the way flying is supposed to be. No GPS, no RNAV approaches, > ...just the wind in the wires. > I spend all day at FL370. Let me tell you first hand it's a great job. But > you are not flying, the computer is, and you can't fly low and slow... Well > except in the flare...and you have to wear a blue polyester suit... and you > sometimes don't get to go where you want to go. Most of the time I am > looking out the window imagining some lucky guy flying in his pietenpol low > over the trees. That's where I want to be. > I just miss the low and slow stuff and the pietenpol is my way back to the > flying that I miss. > I have started learning all I can from this list...and it is going to be a > great resource. I hope you won't mind my 'stupid' questions. > I am fired up again. > > > Thanks for reading. > > > Gregory Heath > kb2qqm@mac.com > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:57 AM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: finally ordered some plans... "Gregory Heath" .......Welcome aboard! Glad you are doing the right thing! As an inexperience builder, I can't say enough about the people, the web site, and the assistance you will come to know as family! Ken Heide Fargo, ND Gregory Heath wrote: I have taken the plunge. I emailed Mr. Grega at the GN-1website after I registered and said I wanted to order plans. He responded that Plans are not available at this time... So what was the point of me registering on his website ? So being that there are no plans for the GN-1, and me being on a business trip for 4 days in various hotels across the US...with nothing to do but surf the internet for hours....I started looking at some of the great website pictures on the original Pietenpol. There are some great looking airplanes out there. I even pulled up some of the great videos on YouTube.com for the Pietenpol. The internet is a great place for airplane building...the more you see the more you want. So the "wants" took over, and I ordered plans for the Pietenpol, for $148, plus $30 for the manual notes...and the rib blank for $16. It's official now. This has taken quite awhile for me to come to this conclusion. I have been searching for an airplane for about a year now. I had it narrowed down to a Zenith CH-601, 801, Aeronca Champ, Piper Colt...and even the airplanes from my friend Don Stewart www.stewartaircraft.com but something kept bringing me back to the Pietenpol. Yes the other airplanes are nice...but relatively expensive. Allot of them are not scratch buildable. To be quite honest, there is something about a wood airplane and a simple one at that ...that is appealing. I just miss flying...the way flying is supposed to be. No GPS, no RNAV approaches, ...just the wind in the wires. I spend all day at FL370. Let me tell you first hand it's a great job. But you are not flying, the computer is, and you can't fly low and slow... Well except in the flare...and you have to wear a blue polyester suit... and you sometimes don't get to go where you want to go. Most of the time I am looking out the window imagining some lucky guy flying in his pietenpol low over the trees. That's where I want to be. I just miss the low and slow stuff and the pietenpol is my way back to the flying that I miss. I have started learning all I can from this list...and it is going to be a great resource. I hope you won't mind my 'stupid' questions. I am fired up again. Thanks for reading. Gregory Heath kb2qqm@mac.com Kenneth M. Heide, BA,CPO,FAAOP --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:35 AM PST US From: Michael Fisher Subject: Pietenpol-List: Water Levels, Stickey Valves, Broken Valve Springs So I climb in after I untied it and was climbing out for about 2 min and BAMM! Just like last year it started running rough and lost 600-700 rpm at full throttle. After pulling the throttle back it would run smooth at 2900-3000 rpm, but put it back to wide open and it would loose power after about 10-15 seconds. Does anybody have an Idea as to what is going on? Shad, Check for broken valve springs. Do this by turning the spring on a seated valve with your fingers and looking for any that turn too easily. Ream all valve guides for clearance on the high side. Mike Fisher using a length of simple Tygon clear plastic tubing from Home Depot or Lowes filled with water. The water always seeks level and can be used to level your longerons, wings, fuselage, tailfeathers and even your tree house. Dick, Do all your water level work with the entire setup at a uniform and stable temperature, out of the wind. Part of the system warmed by the sun, and the other part in the shade can introduce serious errors. This is because fluids change density with temperature, and the dense fluid will push the light (warm) fluid to a higher level. Even a slight breeze blowing across the end of a vented tube can make a difference. Mike Fisher ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:53 AM PST US From: "Lynn Knoll" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Finally ordered some plans Greg: We strongly recommend subscribing to the Brodhead Pietenpol Association News and adding www.westcoastpiet.com to your favorites. Welcome aboard! Do Not Archive Lynn & Kevin Knoll Wichita Piet/Vair 40% done & 79% to go ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:26 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Hi All, I'm in the process of moving my wings back 3" in order to get a correct W & B for my A 65 Long fuselage Piet. In doing so I will need to replace the angled fittings in the front that go from the forward cabane down to the engine mount. The builder used 3/8 X 24 internally threaded steel barrels, welded into the end of the angled fittings, to put the adjustment fitting into. The only barrel I can locate is a 7/16 X 20 I found in ACS and it uses adjustment fittings with 5/16" or 3/8" holes. I need 1/4" holes for mine. I really don't want to enlarge the hole on the wing fitting from 1/4" to accommodate the larger sizes plus I would like to use the fittings that came with the plane. Does anyone know of a source for 3/8" X 24 internally threaded steel barrels? Has anyone other than Walt Evans moved their wings back for W & B? Any thoughts or insights? Walt moved his and he reports it worked out great. He sent me some photos of his plane and he sure has a beautiful Piet. Thank you Gene ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:17 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Gene, For grade 5 and 8 bolts of all sorts look in the McMaster Carr catalog or Grainger, the aren't AN but most homebuilders are not too picky about AN vs grade 8 or 5's. Secondly, I found it easier to extend the engine mount forward by simply using the old C-65 motor mount that came with wrecked plane as a templet for the firewall side and an old Lyco-235 motor mount (laying around any number of homebuilder or EAA chapter hangers) for the templet for the engine side of a new motor mount. Mounted each on a piece of 3/4" plywood to get the holes right, properly aligned for cant and incidence of engine, treaded bolted on outside corners of the plywood together for the overall templet for welding a new motor mount. Then covered the plywood with steel, spaced the distance needed to get the engine foward enough to get the W/B right, using the long (about 18") threaded bolts. This templet can be rotated in any position to get to the welds. We calculated a need to move the heavier 0-235 engine with starter forward about 4" to compensate for a fat pilot (280lbs) and still be in the 20% forward CG limit and 32% CG aft limit (with min. fuel 2 gals) on the wing. Takes a little math but the 4" extended motor mount came in right on the money. You know what the engine weight is your moving it's just a matter of knowing how far you have to move this known mass to affect the CG enough to take more weight in the drivers seat. This maybe simplier than moving the wing's position and angle of incidence. Couple pics attached. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Hi All, I'm in the process of moving my wings back 3" in order to get a correct W & B for my A 65 Long fuselage Piet. In doing so I will need to replace the angled fittings in the front that go from the forward cabane down to the engine mount. The builder used 3/8 X 24 internally threaded steel barrels, welded into the end of the angled fittings, to put the adjustment fitting into. The only barrel I can locate is a 7/16 X 20 I found in ACS and it uses adjustment fittings with 5/16" or 3/8" holes. I need 1/4" holes for mine. I really don't want to enlarge the hole on the wing fitting from 1/4" to accommodate the larger sizes plus I would like to use the fittings that came with the plane. Does anyone know of a source for 3/8" X 24 internally threaded steel barrels? Has anyone other than Walt Evans moved their wings back for W & B? Any thoughts or insights? Walt moved his and he reports it worked out great. He sent me some photos of his plane and he sure has a beautiful Piet. Thank you Gene ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:46 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! It's 100LL. We saw Tom Brown at the WACO fly in today, whom dad bought the original engine from and he thought maybe the lead was causing a valve to stick open. He recomended trying 4 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil per 10 gal of gas, but after trying it for a 20 min low power run then a full power run it did not seem to make a difference. The engine definaltly has a lot more drag (when turning the prop by hand) when it is hot, than when it is cold, and it doesn't feel like compression. As far as detonation, I suspect that it may be pre-ignition from hot spots in the cylinders maybe caused by lead deposits. We are contimplating buying new heads from William Wynne. Shad HVandervoo@aol.com wrote: Shad, Mogas or Avgas? Symptoms seem like detonation. Hans --------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:56 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: finally ordered some plans... Greg, Congratulations. You will not be sorry for picking this great airplane. I am 53 and still remember walking up to my first-seen Pietenpol, very lonely and tied-down at DuPage County airport in IL. I fell in love, and that was back in 1971 when I was taking flying lessons out there. I started building my Piet from the 1933 plans in 2000, and have absolutely loved every minute of it . I am about 70% complete and I am already fretting about the day I finish it, not because I will be sad to fly, but because I am having such an absolute ball building it I don't want it to stop! It has been without a doubt the most rewarding thing I have ever done in my life. I love the problem solving aspect more than anything, one of the beauties of the plans being what is left out!!.....................Good Luck! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:08 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Thanks Gordon, I took a look at moving the engine as well. It turned out that moving the wings back 3" will do a lot more for my W & B than moving my engine the same distance forward. My carbanes are set up somewhat different than yours and will be fairly easy to move. Walt moved his engine forward as well and offered to loan me his jig. It sure is great to have all you guys to call on in times like these. I'm not having a problem finding bolts, it's the barrels the bolts go into that I can't find. I will check the McMaster Carr site just in case they carry them as well. As I remember, you summer in Homer don't you? Are you getting any smoke from the Ninilchik fires? My brother is outside on vacation and doesn't know if he will have a home to come home to. Gene ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:10 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Gene, Yep, in homely ole Homer til after xmas, or gets too cold and dark to take it any longer, then heading for FL and the Piete flying winter. The fire is about 20 miles due east of Ninilchik, prevalent winds from so-west so it's going to northeast slowly. Burnt a fair number of cabins along area of Oil Well Rd., if your brother is out that way he may want to pull the Div. Foresty website to see current pics and satellite views of area burnt. We only had one day of smokey overcast, Anchorage and Seward getting the worst of the smoke. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 3:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Thanks Gordon, I took a look at moving the engine as well. It turned out that moving the wings back 3" will do a lot more for my W & B than moving my engine the same distance forward. My carbanes are set up somewhat different than yours and will be fairly easy to move. Walt moved his engine forward as well and offered to loan me his jig. It sure is great to have all you guys to call on in times like these. I'm not having a problem finding bolts, it's the barrels the bolts go into that I can't find. I will check the McMaster Carr site just in case they carry them as well. As I remember, you summer in Homer don't you? Are you getting any smoke from the Ninilchik fires? My brother is outside on vacation and doesn't know if he will have a home to come home to. Gene ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:00 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Gene My Short fuse with an A-65 has the wing back 4". Works fine but a little harder getting into the rear cockpit. I hardly notice it anymore. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Hi All, I'm in the process of moving my wings back 3" in order to get a correct W & B for my A 65 Long fuselage Piet. In doing so I will need to replace the angled fittings in the front that go from the forward cabane down to the engine mount. The builder used 3/8 X 24 internally threaded steel barrels, welded into the end of the angled fittings, to put the adjustment fitting into. The only barrel I can locate is a 7/16 X 20 I found in ACS and it uses adjustment fittings with 5/16" or 3/8" holes. I need 1/4" holes for mine. I really don't want to enlarge the hole on the wing fitting from 1/4" to accommodate the larger sizes plus I would like to use the fittings that came with the plane. Does anyone know of a source for 3/8" X 24 internally threaded steel barrels? Has anyone other than Walt Evans moved their wings back for W & B? Any thoughts or insights? Walt moved his and he reports it worked out great. He sent me some photos of his plane and he sure has a beautiful Piet. Thank you Gene ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:52 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Thanks for the info Dick. Any ideas on where to find the 3/8 X 24 threaded barrels I need? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 6/23/2007 11:08 AM ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:38 PM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B(changed to NR airshow) Had a nice conversation and a fun time today at the New Richmond airshow, as both Dick and Greg Cardinal flew in and arrived at the same time with their piets. Neither of them knew the other was coming. Nice to see both of you Del Dick Navratil wrote: Gene My Short fuse with an A-65 has the wing back 4". Works fine but a little harder getting into the rear cockpit. I hardly notice it anymore. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Moving wing for W & B Hi All, I'm in the process of moving my wings back 3" in order to get a correct W & B for my A 65 Long fuselage Piet. In doing so I will need to replace the angled fittings in the front that go from the forward cabane down to the engine mount. The builder used 3/8 X 24 internally threaded steel barrels, welded into the end of the angled fittings, to put the adjustment fitting into. The only barrel I can locate is a 7/16 X 20 I found in ACS and it uses adjustment fittings with 5/16" or 3/8" holes. I need 1/4" holes for mine. I really don't want to enlarge the hole on the wing fitting from 1/4" to accommodate the larger sizes plus I would like to use the fittings that came with the plane. Does anyone know of a source for 3/8" X 24 internally threaded steel barrels? Has anyone other than Walt Evans moved their wings back for W & B? Any thoughts or insights? Walt moved his and he reports it worked out great. He sent me some photos of his plane and he sure has a beautiful Piet. Thank you Gene href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:57 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs.....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! It's 100LL. We saw Tom Brown at the WACO fly in today, whom dad bought the original engine from and he thought maybe the lead was causing a valve to stick open. He recomended trying 4 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil per 10 gal of gas, but after trying it for a 20 min low power run then a full power run it did not seem to make a difference. The engine definaltly has a lot more drag (when turning the prop by hand) when it is hot, than when it is cold, and it doesn't feel like compression. As far as detonation, I suspect that it may be pre-ignition from hot spots in the cylinders maybe caused by lead deposits. We are contimplating buying new heads from William Wynne. Shad HVandervoo@aol.com wrote: Shad, Mogas or Avgas? Symptoms seem like detonation. Hans --------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! 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