---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/05/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:11 AM - 2 firing strips (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 2. 04:23 AM - Re: Fuselage bottom fairing (Phillips, Jack) 3. 05:17 AM - fuse stringers----diagram/sketch attached (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 4. 06:09 AM - Re: fuse stringers----diagram/sketch attached (Rick Holland) 5. 06:20 AM - Re: Fuselage bottom fairing (Rick Holland) 6. 06:38 AM - Re: Fuselage bottom fairing (Gene Rambo) 7. 06:39 AM - Re: 2 firing strips (Rick Holland) 8. 07:05 AM - bolt access (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 9. 07:08 AM - Re: 2 firing strips (James) 10. 07:21 AM - Re: Fuselage bottom fairing (Skip Gadd) 11. 08:14 AM - Re: Fuselage bottom fairing (Rcaprd@aol.com) 12. 08:38 AM - Re: Fuselage bottom fairing (Rcaprd@aol.com) 13. 08:49 AM - Re: fuse stringers----diagram/sketch attached (Don Emch) 14. 04:32 PM - Re: Great 4th of July story (Tom Stinemetze) 15. 05:22 PM - Re: 2 firing strips (Rick Holland) 16. 08:04 PM - Re: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings (Scott Schreiber) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:14 AM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2 firing strips Hi Rick: I did the "throw them into the air" trick. (in my mind of coarse) and they fell back to earth telling me that they are just added weight for a Model A Piet, They may also be just added weight for a Corvair Piet in 6000 ft. (plus) Castle Rock Co. Leon S. in 1500 ft. Ks. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom fairing From: "Phillips, Jack" That's what I did. Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 3:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom fairing Happy 4th of July everyone. I just finished adding the 1x 1/4" fairings down the center of both sides of the fuselage and am wondering about adding one down the center of fuselage bottom. Not on the plans (and you know what I think of people that deviate from the plans ;-), but I have seen several Piets with one or two fairing strips on the fuselage bottom. Seems like a good way to hide all those bolt heads and small ply pieces when covering the bottom. Any thoughts? Good idea or no? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuse stringers----diagram/sketch attached From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Rick, Here is how I faired my fuselage and corners. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:41 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuse stringers----diagram/sketch attached Thanks Mike, have you ever had a need to get to any of those bolts on the bottom, under the fabric? (Like to re-tighten any bolts?) Rick On 7/5/07, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote: > > > Rick, > > Here is how I faired my fuselage and corners. > > Mike C. > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:43 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom fairing Yes simple is good, so you just painted the bare plywood bottom with a couple coats of Rustoleum (no varnish) and then bolted on your metal fittings? Rick On 7/4/07, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/4/2007 2:53:19 PM Central Daylight Time, > at7000ft@gmail.com writes: > > I just finished adding the 1x 1/4" fairings down the center of both sides > of the fuselage and am wondering about adding one down the center of > fuselage bottom. Not on the plans (and you know what I think of people that > deviate from the plans ;-) > > Rick, > I didn't add any of the strips on the bottom of the fuse, and I'm really > glad I didn't. Just painted the plywood with the Rustoleum Aluminum Oil > Base Paint that I used on the rest of the fuselage. The side fabric is > overlapped the bottom by about 2 inches, and the fabric on the bottom begins > at the aft edge of the plywood by about 2 inches. I was able to add all the > hardware that is associated with the brakes, without cutting any fabric, and > I can inspect all the hardware, and tighten as necessary - including the > brackets at the landing gear / lift strut lugs , without cutting any > fabric. I added heel brakes after about 32 hrs of flight time. Putting > fabric on the bottom is against all the KISS method that the Pietenpol is > noted for. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > See y'all at Brodhead !! > > > ------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com . > > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:19 AM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom fairing Chuck: Just out of curiosity, if you left the fabric off the bottom, why not leave it off the sides as well like the earlier plans showed? Kind of like Alan Wise's is, I think. I have been playing with the idea of leaving the fabric off the belly, and possibly the sides. I am partially concerned because I KNOW cotton fabric will stick well enough to merely overlap the plywood, I am not as confident with dacron. As for people's concerns about inspecting and/or tightening bolts, I do not know that I have ever seen a bolt loosen itself. Screws maybe, but not bolts with either cotter pins or self-locking nuts. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom fairing Yes simple is good, so you just painted the bare plywood bottom with a couple coats of Rustoleum (no varnish) and then bolted on your metal fittings? Rick On 7/4/07, Rcaprd@aol.com > wrote: In a message dated 7/4/2007 2:53:19 PM Central Daylight Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: I just finished adding the 1x 1/4" fairings down the center of both sides of the fuselage and am wondering about adding one down the center of fuselage bottom. Not on the plans (and you know what I think of people that deviate from the plans ;-) Rick, I didn't add any of the strips on the bottom of the fuse, and I'm really glad I didn't. Just painted the plywood with the Rustoleum Aluminum Oil Base Paint that I used on the rest of the fuselage. The side fabric is overlapped the bottom by about 2 inches, and the fabric on the bottom begins at the aft edge of the plywood by about 2 inches. I was able to add all the hardware that is associated with the brakes, without cutting any fabric, and I can inspect all the hardware, and tighten as necessary - including the brackets at the landing gear / lift strut lugs , without cutting any fabric. I added heel brakes after about 32 hrs of flight time. Putting fabric on the bottom is against all the KISS method that the Pietenpol is noted for. Chuck G. NX770CG See y'all at Brodhead !! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- See what's free at AOL.com. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:12 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 2 firing strips Thank you for bringing me back to my senses Leon (and Chuck), when it gets to the expected 99 degrees today the density altitude at Meadow Lake airport (6874 ft elev) will be 11004 ft!! I don't need no stinkin bottom fairings, I need light. Rick On 7/5/07, Leon Stefan wrote: > > > Hi Rick: I did the "throw them into the air" trick. (in my mind of > coarse) and they fell back to earth telling me that they are just added > weight for a Model A Piet, They may also be just added weight for a > Corvair Piet in 6000 ft. (plus) Castle Rock Co. Leon S. in 1500 ft. Ks. > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: bolt access From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Rick, I have never (thankfully) had to dig into the fabric to get to any of those bolts. One thing to consider is are your fittings long enough (especially in the case of the Jenny style landing gear) for the X cable bracing turnbuckles to attach to once you fair over with belly fabric that stands off from the plywood. Even though I made my fittings a bit longer there due to the fabric 'stand off' it was still a tight fit. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:56 AM PST US From: "James" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 2 firing strips Sounds like you need a turbocharger? A Rotax 914 maybe? OMG did I say that out loud? May the spirit of build to the plans strike me down! Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 2 firing strips Thank you for bringing me back to my senses Leon (and Chuck), when it gets to the expected 99 degrees today the density altitude at Meadow Lake airport (6874 ft elev) will be 11004 ft!! I don't need no stinkin bottom fairings, I need light. Rick On 7/5/07, Leon Stefan wrote: Hi Rick: I did the "throw them into the air" trick. (in my mind of coarse) and they fell back to earth telling me that they are just added -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:56 AM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom fairing Rick, As of now I plan to do it like Chuck. That could change in the year or 2 before I get to that point. Skip ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:36 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom fairing In a message dated 7/5/2007 8:21:45 AM Central Daylight Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Yes simple is good, so you just painted the bare plywood bottom with a couple coats of Rustoleum (no varnish) and then bolted on your metal fittings? Rick Yes, that's how I did it. Don't forget about drain holes in the floor of both cockpits. I think drain holes are a MUST, and I don't know how you could do it if you had fabric on the bottom. I put one on each side in the front pit, just ahead of the front seat support, and one on each side of the rear cockpit floor, just in front of that seat support. When you throw these holes up in the air, they DON'T come back down, so I put them in...acording to Leon's method...actually I think it was originally Walt's mentor. Chuck G. NX770CG ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:51 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom fairing In a message dated 7/5/2007 8:39:35 AM Central Daylight Time, generambo@msn.com writes: Chuck: Just out of curiosity, if you left the fabric off the bottom, why not leave it off the sides as well like the earlier plans showed? Kind of like Alan Wise's is, I think. I have been playing with the idea of leaving the fabric off the belly, and possibly the sides. I am partially concerned because I KNOW cotton fabric will stick well enough to merely overlap the plywood, I am not as confident with dacron. As for people's concerns about inspecting and/or tightening bolts, I do not know that I have ever seen a bolt loosen itself. Screws maybe, but not bolts with either cotter pins or self-locking nuts. Gene You can certainly leave the fabric off of both sides, as well as the bottom. It's less weight, less work, and more economical...all good traits of the Pietenpol design. That's how Alan Wise, Doug Bryant, and some others did it. By the way, Doug's Model A Pietenpol still graces the skies around Creeve Coeur St. Louis. No problem with the Dacron Fabric coming off if you have at least 2" overlap on clean wood. After it is painted, the leading edge of the seam, that is into the wind, almost disappears. It's true that self locking nuts will probably never loosen itself...key word - 'Probably'. Never say 'Never' in this airplane building stuff !! Here is something that happened to my plane a few years ago: Doug B. built all the metal fittings on my plane, and he used the plans thickness, 1020 steel, for the Four EL brackets on the inside of the fuselage, where the lift strut / landing gear lugs are. After two years of testing runway hardness, the #10 bolts depressed dimples in the soft steel, and the bolts were loose. I changed out those four brackets with .060" 4130 steel. I had to patch the fabric on the sides where the bolt heads were under the fabric. I have had no problem since...and I'm still testing runway hardness !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse stringers----diagram/sketch attached From: "Don Emch" Rick, I did mine the same way. I like the look and it does keep the belly cleaner. Mine sits kinda nose high on the ground and the belly is fairly visible. I haven't done it yet, but one thing I've thought of doing, if I get loose bolts is to use a dremel to cut very small slots on the end of the bolts, well beyond the nut to use a screw driver to hold the bolt stationary while turning the nut. Just a thought... Hey Mike, are you going to make it to the T-Craft/Aeronca Fly-in this weekend? I'm planning to be there on Saturday. Weather is supposed to be really nice, hopefully they have a nice turnout! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122372#122372 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:51 PM PST US From: "Tom Stinemetze" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Great 4th of July story Not long after that, Kevin Purtee had to shelve his project as he was going to deploy to Iraq as an Apache helicopter pilot. He's been over there for more than a year and will return home soon, but I thought the group would want to read about this incident: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/4939405.html John: This story was covered this morning on CNN in a little more detail. That coverage indicated that there were two downed chopper pilots in a hot zone that had to be extracted. Since one of them was wounded and the Apache only has room for two, Mr. Purtee installed the wounded pilot in his seat and then he and the unwounded rescuee strapped themselves to the stub wings on either side of the cockpit. Exit, stage left, at about 120 MPH. What a thrill that must have been and with live fire still coming in too! We don't even HALF appreciate our fighting men and women adequately! Tom Stinemetze The Airplane Nut ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:59 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 2 firing strips I have given adding a turbo a thought. And William Wynne have done some work with a turbo mod on a Corvair engine. But in the mean time I can fly on the cooler days. Rick On 7/5/07, James wrote: > > Sounds like you need a turbocharger? A Rotax 914 maybe? OMG did I say > that out loud? May the spirit of build to the plans strike me down! > > Jim T. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:39 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: 2 firing strips > > Thank you for bringing me back to my senses Leon (and Chuck), when it gets > to the expected 99 degrees today the density altitude at Meadow Lake airport > (6874 ft elev) will be 11004 ft!! I don't need no stinkin bottom fairings, I > need light. > > Rick > > On 7/5/07, Leon Stefan wrote: > > > > > > Hi Rick: I did the "throw them into the air" trick. (in my mind of > > coarse) and they fell back to earth telling me that they are just added > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rick Holland > ObjectAge Ltd. > Castle Rock, Colorado > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:45 PM PST US From: "Scott Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drag, tail brace, and strut wires and fittings As Bill Church said "Do yourself a big favor and buy the set of Tony Bingelis books. It will be the best $89 you spend in building your plane." About the same time you suggested this a fellow in the chapter loaned me his Firewall Foreward Bingelis book. As soon as I saw what it had in it I ordered the whole set. I just wanted to underline this for anyone thinking about building. It is a great book set and will certainly pay for itself in wasted or misordered material alone. Fortunatly I found out I have access to a swage machine as well as a nicropress through the EAA chapter I joined a while back. For some cable ends I am using the MS20664-C4 ball ends and SA362-4 fork fittings mainly where they end at a metal fitting. For other points I will be using the nicopress and thimble. On the upside, I am starting my cabanes and have the outer fittings on and am starting on the inner ones tonight. Both wings are mostly done with the ailerons and wingtips remaining and the center section is coming along. -Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.