Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:57 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (walt evans)
2. 04:33 AM - Re: encouraging changes at EAA? (Phillips, Jack)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (Phillips, Jack)
4. 04:44 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
5. 04:49 AM - Value of EAA (Isablcorky@aol.com)
6. 05:17 AM - keeping the Piet ()
7. 06:20 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (Terry Hall)
8. 06:25 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
9. 08:29 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (Scott Schreiber)
10. 08:32 AM - Re: Value of EAA (Glenn W. Thomas)
11. 08:39 AM - Re: Value of EAA (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
12. 09:56 AM - Re: Value of EAA (Glenn W. Thomas)
13. 09:57 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (Gene & Tammy)
14. 10:23 AM - Re: Value of EAA (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
15. 10:25 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
16. 11:20 AM - Re: Value of EAA (Gordon Bowen)
17. 11:50 AM - Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Value of EAA (Glenn W. Thomas)
18. 12:51 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Gene & Tammy)
19. 12:55 PM - Re: Value of EAA (jimboyer@hughes.net)
20. 01:05 PM - Re: keeping the Piet (Gene & Tammy)
21. 01:29 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Greg Chapman)
22. 01:31 PM - Radio and tail hook release (Gene & Tammy)
23. 01:32 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Jeff Boatright)
24. 02:22 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Dave Abramson)
25. 02:28 PM - Nice cowl (Bill Church)
26. 02:43 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Greg Chapman)
27. 03:55 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Peter W Johnson)
28. 05:41 PM - Engines for sale........ (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
29. 06:16 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Skip Gadd)
30. 08:47 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Roman Bukolt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Took my first lesson this week |
Scott,
Just remember the old saying "step on the ball"
Whenever the ball isn't centered, give rudder pressure on the side it's
creeping to. Like magic it slides back.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week
I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of
things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn
coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was
having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming
along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles
on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut
fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get
pics up later this week.
-Scott Schreiber
Message 2
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| Subject: | encouraging changes at EAA? |
Not yet - haven't had time this summer, what with Brodhead and OSH and
all. Maybe I'll do it this winter during the annual condition
inspection. It flies pretty well with the Sensenich.
Jack Phillips
Sweltering in Raleigh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: encouraging changes at EAA?
--> <zharvey@bellsouth.net>
Jack, Did you ever change over to your new wood prop? My 74 X 38 seems
to work really well (of course after my old prop a warped 2 X 4 would
seem to do really well).
Gene
->
>
>
> --
> 4:02 PM
>
_________________________________________________
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
Message 3
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| Subject: | Took my first lesson this week |
Cool, Scott! What are you learning to fly in?
You will treasure these memories. I took my first lesson 38 years ago
and still remember it, and my first solo, and first solo cross country.
You are now a pilot, and will never be the same.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week
I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of
things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn
coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was
having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming
along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles
on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut
fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get
pics up later this week.
-Scott Schreiber
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Took my first lesson this week |
Scott, when you are in level flight, try just wagging the tail a bit with
the rudders. Doing this occasionally helped me to learn the feel/effectiveness
of the rudder. Just be aware that at different air speeds it will respond
differently. You're in for a treat if you like a challenge. There will be things
you do in your training that I was scared to death of when I went though it,
but I learned to love those things more than anything else we did. Good luck
with it, fly safe!
Boyce
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 5
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Pieters,
Interesting to read the frequent comments about EAA. Pro and con comments
will in the end mean a stronger organization. I have not kept up with EAA for
the last few years nor have I continued my membership. I do read the magazines
as my next door neighbor furnishes.
If you don't have EAA what do you have between the builder and FAA? Some
organization MUST be vigilant to counter the effects of those Washington
dreamers and changers. Granted that EAA has gone offtrack from it's original
purposes but I'll give them credit for judgement. When I joined EAA was being
run by
Mr & Mrs Paul P, never could pronounce his last name, from their residence
in Hales Corner, Wis. He was working full time during the day and EAAing at
night and on weekends. Dues were $10 and you got a magazine. The organization
spurred the homebuilding movement worldwide. There was absolutely NOTHING
along this line before nor has there been anything new since. EAA had to change
with the times. Kit planes, ultra lights and now LSA dominate the scene and
this is good for aviation. I hope it won't be long before everyone can look up
in the skies and see Cubs, Aeroncas, Pietenpols, Wacos, Stinsons, Cessnas,
Beeches, Taylorcrafts, Birds, Standards, Travel Airs, Ryans as well as the RV
series and all those fine kit planes flying happily every Sat and Sun afternoon
in the good ole USA and Canada
Corky
EAA 7090
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 6
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| Subject: | keeping the Piet |
I have decided instead of selling the Piet and keeping the N3 Pup that I
would reverse this decision and sell the N3 keeping the Piet since am
having just too much fun flying the Piet (gn-1 aircamper).It means that
I will still have to rent the hanger but at least I will have room for
others to join me in that hanger to help cover the cost.I have up to
4hrs. on the Piet now and everything is running as advertised.I have
been invited to join the Vintage Wings production at Rockliffe at the
museum this weekend as a static display which is a real honour for me.I
will be landing at Rockliffe this Sunday sometime around 8 to 830 if all
goes well.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Took my first lesson this week |
Scott, Congratulations on a successful first lesson. In no time at all,
you'll have your helmet, goggles, and scarf like the rest of us. Fly as
often as you can--twice a day if your schedule allows. You'll be
surprised how quickly it comes together.
Terry Hall
Ada, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week
I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of
things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn
coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was
having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming
along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles
on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut
fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get
pics up later this week.
-Scott Schreiber
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Took my first lesson this week |
Sounds like my first lesson, except it only lasted .06 hr. On my second
lesson the instructor had me recovering from unusual attitudes by
instruments under the hood. It was July and 103 degrees (bumpy). It took
a month for my stomach to quit hurting and to take my 3rd. lesson. Keep
at it. Leon S.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Took my first lesson this week |
Our weather was interesting, there was no horizon and you couldn't get above
2,500. There were a few nasty spots and I remember asking my instructor a
few times if I induced that. Part of my problem is the area of brake and the
area of rudder on the pedal. I did OK in taxing but in the air it seemed
like only the first 1/2 inch of the pedal was rudder. I know it's me and I
will get it sorted out.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week
>
> Sounds like my first lesson, except it only lasted .06 hr. On my second
> lesson the instructor had me recovering from unusual attitudes by
> instruments under the hood. It was July and 103 degrees (bumpy). It took
> a month for my stomach to quit hurting and to take my 3rd. lesson. Keep
> at it. Leon S.
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
The attached .pdf was shared with me at Brodhead. It shows a concerning
decline in new pilots over the last 20 years. Don't know what the
relationship to EAA is but it would appear that if their (EAA) cause is to
bring more people into aviation, they are failing.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
For me, I haven't joined because of the cost. I can't afford to build the
plane I'm building, and because of that, my flying has also taking a hit. I'm
certainly not paying to be a "member" Maybe one day I can join EAA.
Boyce
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
Which is another interesting chart of numbers ...the cost of airplanes,
flying lessons, hangar costs, etc. over the same timeframe as the data
presented in the chart in my previous post. Even considering inflation
and economic conditions, it has become one expensive hobby!
On Thu, August 23, 2007 10:39 am, RAMPEYBOY@aol.com wrote:
> For me, I haven't joined because of the cost. I can't afford to build
> the plane I'm building, and because of that, my flying has also taking a
> hit. I'm certainly not paying to be a "member" Maybe one day I can join
> EAA.
> Boyce
>
>
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Took my first lesson this week |
Scott,
My advise, for what it is worth, is to relax, don't be in a hurry and ENJOY
your flight. All too many students are up tight because flying is new to
them and there is more to learn to become a good, safe pilot than they
realized. Don't try to impress anyone with what a "natural" your are. You
can't-----unless you crash and then they will have something to talk about.
Learn to "Fly the plane, Fly the plane, Fly the plane" and don't overly
worry about the instruments for now. You really need to know how to fly the
plane without the instruments before you learn to fly with them. When the
engine or instruments fail it will be up to the PILOT to fly the plane.
With a good instructor it will all come in due time. Trying not to step on
any toes, but in my opinon Leon's instructor was a horse's ass for putting a
new student under the hood and do unusual attitude recovery in their 2nd
hour. Unusual attitude recovery and the hood are both important but a lot
of students are not comfortable flying for a goodly number of hours. All
too many students quite flying before they get their License because of poor
instructors. I hightly recommend students look for an instructor that
instructs because he/she likes instructing, not because he/she is trying to
build hours. Also, don't be afraid to "fire" an instructor if you feel your
not getting your moneys worth.
Again, take your time, relax and enjoy each flight. Not only will you learn
much faster but you will be developing a love that will last a life time.
Gene
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider
buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my
personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have
bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down
outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching
the
break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun!
Boyce
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Took my first lesson this week |
I agree with Gene here. It's not too thoughtful for the instructor to
subject a student pilot to unusual attitudes so early!
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
Boyce,
Homebuilding is never ever because it's "cheaper" way to fly. It's
always cheaper to join a good flying club, if flying is the only
objective. Building an aircraft or boat or birdhouse or hotrod car,
that's the hobby and reward, being able to fly your hobby is just a side
benefit.
Re: value of EAA, except for their lobbying efforts in Washington
(sometimes questionable in effectiveness), the management of the EAA has
sold out to the big aviation businesses and Wisconsin tourism. The
money made at Oshcash each year is simply to support the EAA staff until
the next year's event. There is only one good reason for the EAA and
that's the local chapters. These internet based forums have done more
for homebuilders in the last 10 years than the EAA has done since it's
beginning. The EAA HQ paid staff rely on the good heartedness of
volunteers to pull off the scam at Air Venture. Everything from parking
to minimalist workshops is based on free help from volunteers. The EAA
HQ staff would have to go out and get real jobs if they didn't have
volunteers to help scam the annual parade of cash cows going to
AirVenture to be milked.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA
Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously
consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the
Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting
the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol,
but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly
10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But,
it wouldn't be as fun!
Boyce
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
EXACTLY Gordon,
Those are precisely my sentiments.
Between this forum, Flitzer forum and a few local builders I get all I
need to build a plane without an EAA membership. By not renewing when
there is no good reason you are voting with your feet. I felt a little
angry at OshKosh this year to find that volunteers get paid with
sandwiches and that the water coming out of faucets in Camp Scholler was
brown. Sure, camping was still fun, but I got a lot more out of Brodhead.
I didn't want to get all negative but I guess I did anyway. Sorry for
that guys.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
Well said Gordon!
Gene in Tennessee where it is too hot to fly or work in the shop.-----
Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA
Boyce,
Homebuilding is never ever because it's "cheaper" way to fly. It's
always cheaper to join a good flying club, if flying is the only
objective. Building an aircraft or boat or birdhouse or hotrod car,
that's the hobby and reward, being able to fly your hobby is just a side
benefit.
Re: value of EAA, except for their lobbying efforts in Washington
(sometimes questionable in effectiveness), the management of the EAA has
sold out to the big aviation businesses and Wisconsin tourism. The
money made at Oshcash each year is simply to support the EAA staff until
the next year's event. There is only one good reason for the EAA and
that's the local chapters. These internet based forums have done more
for homebuilders in the last 10 years than the EAA has done since it's
beginning. The EAA HQ paid staff rely on the good heartedness of
volunteers to pull off the scam at Air Venture. Everything from parking
to minimalist workshops is based on free help from volunteers. The EAA
HQ staff would have to go out and get real jobs if they didn't have
volunteers to help scam the annual parade of cash cows going to
AirVenture to be milked.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA
Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously
consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the
Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting
the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol,
but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly
10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But,
it wouldn't be as fun!
Boyce
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000
000982
href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000
000982" target=_blank>AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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-----
8/22/2007 6:51 PM
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
Are you sure its not the cost of aircraft that are slowing down the
number of pilot increases?
When we bought the Aeronca 7AC in 1955 it cost us $700 US and it
didn't take long to save that much. I am not flying anything right now
(until my Piet is done) because I don't have $25,000 to buy that same
champ, or Taylorcraft, or... now; to say nothing of the cost of the new
LSA's at +/-$100,000 US.
Who are the new pilots now; Lawyers, doctors, etc?
Jim
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: keeping the Piet |
Harvey,
It's a decision I think you'll be happy you made. Enjoy!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: keeping the Piet
I have decided instead of selling the Piet and keeping the N3 Pup that
I would reverse this decision and sell the N3 keeping the Piet since am
having just too much fun flying the Piet (gn-1 aircamper).It means that
I will still have to rent the hanger but at least I will have room for
others to join me in that hanger to help cover the cost.I have up to
4hrs. on the Piet now and everything is running as advertised.I have
been invited to join the Vintage Wings production at Rockliffe at the
museum this weekend as a static display which is a real honour for me.I
will be landing at Rockliffe this Sunday sometime around 8 to 830 if all
goes well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
8/22/2007 9:05 AM
Message 21
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I think, could be wrong, that what you're observing is what some of us are holding
EAA accountable for. LSA was about making aircraft affordable again. As I
watched this bit of rulemaking take shape it appeared the EAA was fostering it
well. It wasn't until I saw the price tags on the offerings of the companies
in that space which EAA supported and spotlighted that I realized someone was
missing the reality check.
At the latest Airventure, I was constantly cruising the area and feeling like I
must be the only guy there wondering how in the world a price of $60-90k on a
new Cub variation could be considered competitive. It's competitive only within
the manufacturing circle and certainly not within the market. The reason that
Cessna sold so many airplanes through the 60's was that the price fit within
a certain percentage of the medium income. There is nothing on the market today
certifiable as an airplane whose price falls within that median income target.
In other words, I'm an average guy and I can't afford what is being represented
as the average market. As the champions of LSA, EAA missed the mark as they supported
the efforts behind these unrealistically priced machines. That's also
what's wrong with Cessna's LSA. Most of the orders are from schools. Neither
the schools nor the manufacturer have yet realized that they are wasting their
money if they can't afford to sell an airplane to someone AFTER they get their
license. In order to sustain reasonable prices and production, the craft have
to become affordable for general ownership. Making that happen assures the schools
that they'll have students in the future.
Greg Chapman
http://www.mousetrax.com
http://www.layer1wireless.com
"Don't start with me or I'll
replace you with a small and
efficient script!"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimboyer@hughes.net
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:55 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA
>
> <jimboyer@hughes.net>
>
> Are you sure its not the cost of aircraft that are slowing down the
> number of pilot increases?
> When we bought the Aeronca 7AC in 1955 it cost us $700 US and it
> didn't take long to save that much. I am not flying anything right now
> (until my Piet is done) because I don't have $25,000 to buy that same
> champ, or Taylorcraft, or... now; to say nothing of the cost of the new
> LSA's at +/-$100,000 US.
> Who are the new pilots now; Lawyers, doctors, etc?
> Jim
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Radio and tail hook release |
Pieters,
It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging
around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a
long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my
Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of
eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I
need to take care of is my radio.
I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if
it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using
a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best
place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the
cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent
antenna. If so, where?
Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release.
With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock
and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38)
not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood
under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay
put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to
leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a
tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any
ideas?
Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is
building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and
down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash.
It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted.
Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife
will be getting home soon.
Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in
the heat)
N502R
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
Glenn,
Thanks for that interesting data set. It looks
like starting from 1929 (the earliest year
available) until the early 50s, there was an
increase in the number of pilots existing per
year. There was of course a spike at WWII and
immediately afterwards, then a decline in the
late 50s for some reason (possibly due to the
introduction of new medical and equipment regs? I
don't know.). Starting with 1960, there was a
steady increase from about 360,000 to a high of
827,000 in 1980. Since 1980, there has been a
somewhat steady decline to the current level of
just under 600,000.
I don't know how much decline can be attributed
to anyone's failure because I see many possible
causes whose impact on the numbers are beyond
what I would expect an AOPA or EAA to be able to
alter. Even just within the world of aviation
(that is, beyond widespread societal pressures),
there have been significant factors that may have
caused some of the decline.
For instance, as pilots trained during WWII and
on the later GI Bill grow older, they fall out of
the pilot population. This has been written about
since at least the 70s and it has an enormous,
predicted, and documented impact on pilot numbers.
Also, I think it's likely that as airline travel
became less expensive and permeated more markets,
the need for small planes flown personally by
businessmen or other who just want to go from
Point A to Point B declined. The explosion of
cheap and plentiful airline travel options
started in the late 70s. The beginning of the
decline in number of pilots followed soon
afterwards. I can't prove causation; it's just an
observation and opinion.
Another consideration is FAR part 103
"legalizing" ultralights was implemented by the
FAA in 1982. Thus, for a whole segment of people
truly interested only in low and slow and cheap
flying, there was a new route to take to get into
the air. It may be that if part 103 hadn't been
implemented, a lot of these people would have
been "forced" to become licensed pilots just so
they could get into the air. Many who opted for
the U/L route weren't or aren't FAA-licensed
pilots, so they aren't included in the pilot
numbers data. Thus, there may be additional tens
of thousands of people who are pilots in all but
name but aren't counted in this dataset. Again, I
can't prove causation; it's just an observation
and opinion.
Possibly these three factors contributed to the
decline in numbers of licensed pilots, a decline
that is even greater when measured against the
general population growth over the same course of
time.
Of course, there's lots of other probable
factors. For instance, the explosion of leisure
activities that have occurred in the last few
decades compete with flying as a hobby. Also,
expendable "luxury" income for the middle class
has declined in the last two decades (though the
definition of this money has morphed, too).
What I wonder is, what would this decline in
pilot numbers look like if EAA, AOPA, GAMA, etc.
did not exist or had not developed their various
programs to encourage pilot starts and
retentions? That is, have these programs had any
effect? I suspect that they have, but I have no
data on it.
Jeff
At 10:31 AM -0500 8/23/07, Glenn W. Thomas wrote:
>The attached .pdf was shared with me at Brodhead. It shows a concerning
>decline in new pilots over the last 20 years. Don't know what the
>relationship to EAA is but it would appear that if their (EAA) cause is to
>bring more people into aviation, they are failing.
>Attachment converted: BoatG5:pilot statistics.pdf (PDF /IC) (00B3DCBE)
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
Message 24
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Hello Group!
I recently bought a C-140 to learn to fly while building my Pietenpol... I
figure once I am done building (1 1/2 years and counting) the sale of my 140
will buy a nice Rotec Radial Engine for the Pietenpol!!!!
Meanwhile......... I fly in the morning, and build in the afternoon!
(also have 4 cars and 2 motorcycles in the hanger to get in the way)
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA
Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider
buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my
personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could
have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down
outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before
reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun!
Boyce
_____
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
Message 25
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I was just checking the Brodhead EAA 431 website to see if they had
posted any photos of this year's gathering, and saw that they had not
yet.
But...they do have a couple of shots of Dennis Hall's newly re-engined
Air camper (from Ford Model A to Continental 65). That's a nice looking
cowl. Compound curves aren't so easy to do, but they sure look nice.
Here's a link to see for yourself...
http://www.eaa431.org/
Bill C.
Message 26
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This section carries a piece of information often glossed-over in modern
study:
" Also, I think it's likely that as airline travel became less expensive and
permeated more markets, the need for small planes flown personally by
businessmen or other who just want to go from Point A to Point B declined.
The explosion of cheap and plentiful airline travel options started in the
late 70s. The beginning of the decline in number of pilots followed soon
afterwards. I can't prove causation; it's just an observation and opinion."
There was a period which lasted until the 1980's in which airlines hired
almost exclusively from the ex-military pilot population. After deregulation
and the downsizing of the U.S. military, the pool of applicants shrank. The
Aviation Revitalization Act came about because of the perception that the
pilot pool would shrink to a critical level and the realization that new
pilots would have to come from some new source. GA was recognized as that
source of experience.
Now that aviation careers are compensated at new lows for the industry,
training is more expensive than ever, aircraft themselves are horrendously
priced and on and on, I find it very difficult to believe anyone would (and
definitely I would question the judgment of anyone who does) find it
reasonable to invest $60-$70k in an education which will pay less than $30k
annually for the first 3-5 years and offer no stability or appreciable
compensation improvement for many years beyond that.
All that said, my base assertion is that EAA and AOPA have missed the mark
in guiding the industry and all forms of aviation will face significant
problems until ownership is more affordable. For commercial aviation, the
experienced pilot pool has to come from someplace and GA will not be able to
generate the supply if no one can afford to even fly GA equipment.
Greg Chapman
http://www.mousetrax.com
http://www.layer1wireless.com
"Don't start with me or I'll
replace you with a small and
efficient script!"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:32 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA
>
> <jboatri@emory.edu>
>
> Glenn,
>
> Thanks for that interesting data set. It looks
> like starting from 1929 (the earliest year
> available) until the early 50s, there was an
> increase in the number of pilots existing per
> year. There was of course a spike at WWII and
> immediately afterwards, then a decline in the
> late 50s for some reason (possibly due to the
> introduction of new medical and equipment regs? I
> don't know.). Starting with 1960, there was a
> steady increase from about 360,000 to a high of
> 827,000 in 1980. Since 1980, there has been a
> somewhat steady decline to the current level of
> just under 600,000.
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Radio and tail hook release |
Gene,
Re the radio antenna, I put mine behind the pilot=92s seat (HYPERLINK
"http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG"http://www.c
pc-
world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG). I know it=92s a bit late
if you
are already flying but it works well. I have seen a similar antenna
mounted
on the outside of the fuse on a Corby Starlet that looked OK.
The only problem I have with the radio is wind noise in the mike. My
handheld mounts at my right hand (HYPERLINK
"http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg"http://
www
.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg).
As for the tail hook, well an electric start on the Corvair does away
with
the need!!!!
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 6:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release
Pieters,
It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging
around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a
long
time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet
and
what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I
need
to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of
is
my radio.
I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if
it's
because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a
rubber
duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to
keep
your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you
using
the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where?
Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release.
With
my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the
Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a
chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under
each
wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just
raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm
not
happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook
release I
can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas?
Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is
building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and
down.
I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It
would
be so much easier if the dash was slanted.
Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife
will
be getting home soon.
Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in
the
heat)
N502R
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
22/08/2007
6:51 PM
22/08/2007
6:51 PM
Message 28
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| Subject: | Engines for sale........ |
Members of the list:
As many of you may know, I am one of the few builders creating a "Wide Body"
Pietenpol ( hey you other guys...we need to create a neat "wide body" Logo to
identify our planes) with plans of using a Continental A-65. There has been a
change in plans! Keep reading.....
I am going to install a c-85 or C-90 in my "wide body" as I deemed it necessary
if I am going to gain any altitude....So here is the deal for fellow builders...
I have an A-65 Continental for sale, complete, flange shaft, no logs, need rebuild....and
I have another hanger mate who has a Continental C-75 for sale with
30 hours on rebuild. It has a log book, complete engine removed from a Zenair
for more HP, less carb. He has adapted on the front of the engine a starter
and generator which can be unbolted and removed. Please call me for more information
and interest in these very "reasonably priced" engines! This would be
a good deal for any Pieter seeking an engine for their project!
Ken Heide
Fargo, ND
218-486-1963 Home
701-793-3030 Cell
---------------------------------
Message 29
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| Subject: | Radio and tail hook release |
Gene,
When I bought Felix the GN-1 it had a rubber duckie mounted on the side of the
fuze between pits. It worked ok but not great.
I used an idea from an old Kitplanes. It is 2 pieces of formica 1" X 23" glued
together with a strip of copper tape in the middle then held together with heat
shrink or tape. There is a wire soldered to the copper at one end that sticks
out like a pigtail. The ground plane is 3 pieces of alum gutter stock 1" X 23".
The 4 pieces are spread out like a fork and mounted in the fuze floor and
sides behind the pilot seat. I also use the ground plane for the ELT. The radio
works allot better than with the duck. The radio is an Icom hard wired to a
motor cycle battery, which I charge every 6 months or so.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because
I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie
antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld?
(I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber
duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where?
Gene
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Radio and tail hook release |
This is how I do it.
I have a 35 ft . piece of 3/16" nylon rope. Nothing else. No gadgets,
hooks, or mechanical releases.
I run the rope under one side of the tail wheel steering arm, then
around a post, then back under the other tail wheel arm and bring both
ends up to the right rear cabane ( one end around the cabane) and tie
the two ends together shoe lace bow fashion and position the knot along
side the cockpit.
Then I nudge the plane forward until the line is tight. I give it one
more push to make sure the knot will not untie.
Then I prime the Cont. A-65, flip the mag switch and start the engine
with throttle at full idle. The engine runs at about 550 rpm. I crawl
in, buckle up,check oil pressure, and when ready, untie the "shoe lace"
by pulling on one of the loose ends, coil the line up and stow it in my
cockpit. Simple as you can make it.
Works for me!
Roman Bukolt NX20795
BTW I believe Bill Rewey and Lowell Frank also do it this same way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release
Pieters,
It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging
around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a
long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my
Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of
eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I
need to take care of is my radio.
I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure
if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm
using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the
best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the
cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent
antenna. If so, where?
Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release.
With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock
and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38)
not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood
under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay
put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to
leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a
tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any
ideas?
Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is
building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and
down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash.
It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted.
Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife
will be getting home soon.
Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well
in the heat)
N502R
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