---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/23/07: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:57 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (walt evans) 2. 04:33 AM - Re: encouraging changes at EAA? (Phillips, Jack) 3. 04:39 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (Phillips, Jack) 4. 04:44 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com) 5. 04:49 AM - Value of EAA (Isablcorky@aol.com) 6. 05:17 AM - keeping the Piet () 7. 06:20 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (Terry Hall) 8. 06:25 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 9. 08:29 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (Scott Schreiber) 10. 08:32 AM - Re: Value of EAA (Glenn W. Thomas) 11. 08:39 AM - Re: Value of EAA (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com) 12. 09:56 AM - Re: Value of EAA (Glenn W. Thomas) 13. 09:57 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (Gene & Tammy) 14. 10:23 AM - Re: Value of EAA (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com) 15. 10:25 AM - Re: Took my first lesson this week (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com) 16. 11:20 AM - Re: Value of EAA (Gordon Bowen) 17. 11:50 AM - Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Value of EAA (Glenn W. Thomas) 18. 12:51 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Gene & Tammy) 19. 12:55 PM - Re: Value of EAA (jimboyer@hughes.net) 20. 01:05 PM - Re: keeping the Piet (Gene & Tammy) 21. 01:29 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Greg Chapman) 22. 01:31 PM - Radio and tail hook release (Gene & Tammy) 23. 01:32 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Jeff Boatright) 24. 02:22 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Dave Abramson) 25. 02:28 PM - Nice cowl (Bill Church) 26. 02:43 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Greg Chapman) 27. 03:55 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Peter W Johnson) 28. 05:41 PM - Engines for sale........ (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 29. 06:16 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Skip Gadd) 30. 08:47 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Roman Bukolt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:53 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week Scott, Just remember the old saying "step on the ball" Whenever the ball isn't centered, give rudder pressure on the side it's creeping to. Like magic it slides back. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get pics up later this week. -Scott Schreiber ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:13 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: encouraging changes at EAA? From: "Phillips, Jack" Not yet - haven't had time this summer, what with Brodhead and OSH and all. Maybe I'll do it this winter during the annual condition inspection. It flies pretty well with the Sensenich. Jack Phillips Sweltering in Raleigh -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: encouraging changes at EAA? --> Jack, Did you ever change over to your new wood prop? My 74 X 38 seems to work really well (of course after my old prop a warped 2 X 4 would seem to do really well). Gene -> > > > -- > 4:02 PM > _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week From: "Phillips, Jack" Cool, Scott! What are you learning to fly in? You will treasure these memories. I took my first lesson 38 years ago and still remember it, and my first solo, and first solo cross country. You are now a pilot, and will never be the same. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get pics up later this week. -Scott Schreiber _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:38 AM PST US From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week Scott, when you are in level flight, try just wagging the tail a bit with the rudders. Doing this occasionally helped me to learn the feel/effectiveness of the rudder. Just be aware that at different air speeds it will respond differently. You're in for a treat if you like a challenge. There will be things you do in your training that I was scared to death of when I went though it, but I learned to love those things more than anything else we did. Good luck with it, fly safe! Boyce http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:57 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Pieters, Interesting to read the frequent comments about EAA. Pro and con comments will in the end mean a stronger organization. I have not kept up with EAA for the last few years nor have I continued my membership. I do read the magazines as my next door neighbor furnishes. If you don't have EAA what do you have between the builder and FAA? Some organization MUST be vigilant to counter the effects of those Washington dreamers and changers. Granted that EAA has gone offtrack from it's original purposes but I'll give them credit for judgement. When I joined EAA was being run by Mr & Mrs Paul P, never could pronounce his last name, from their residence in Hales Corner, Wis. He was working full time during the day and EAAing at night and on weekends. Dues were $10 and you got a magazine. The organization spurred the homebuilding movement worldwide. There was absolutely NOTHING along this line before nor has there been anything new since. EAA had to change with the times. Kit planes, ultra lights and now LSA dominate the scene and this is good for aviation. I hope it won't be long before everyone can look up in the skies and see Cubs, Aeroncas, Pietenpols, Wacos, Stinsons, Cessnas, Beeches, Taylorcrafts, Birds, Standards, Travel Airs, Ryans as well as the RV series and all those fine kit planes flying happily every Sat and Sun afternoon in the good ole USA and Canada Corky EAA 7090 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: keeping the Piet From: I have decided instead of selling the Piet and keeping the N3 Pup that I would reverse this decision and sell the N3 keeping the Piet since am having just too much fun flying the Piet (gn-1 aircamper).It means that I will still have to rent the hanger but at least I will have room for others to join me in that hanger to help cover the cost.I have up to 4hrs. on the Piet now and everything is running as advertised.I have been invited to join the Vintage Wings production at Rockliffe at the museum this weekend as a static display which is a real honour for me.I will be landing at Rockliffe this Sunday sometime around 8 to 830 if all goes well. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:44 AM PST US From: "Terry Hall" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week Scott, Congratulations on a successful first lesson. In no time at all, you'll have your helmet, goggles, and scarf like the rest of us. Fly as often as you can--twice a day if your schedule allows. You'll be surprised how quickly it comes together. Terry Hall Ada, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get pics up later this week. -Scott Schreiber ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:27 AM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week Sounds like my first lesson, except it only lasted .06 hr. On my second lesson the instructor had me recovering from unusual attitudes by instruments under the hood. It was July and 103 degrees (bumpy). It took a month for my stomach to quit hurting and to take my 3rd. lesson. Keep at it. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:10 AM PST US From: "Scott Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week Our weather was interesting, there was no horizon and you couldn't get above 2,500. There were a few nasty spots and I remember asking my instructor a few times if I induced that. Part of my problem is the area of brake and the area of rudder on the pedal. I did OK in taxing but in the air it seemed like only the first 1/2 inch of the pedal was rudder. I know it's me and I will get it sorted out. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week > > Sounds like my first lesson, except it only lasted .06 hr. On my second > lesson the instructor had me recovering from unusual attitudes by > instruments under the hood. It was July and 103 degrees (bumpy). It took > a month for my stomach to quit hurting and to take my 3rd. lesson. Keep > at it. Leon S. > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA From: "Glenn W. Thomas" The attached .pdf was shared with me at Brodhead. It shows a concerning decline in new pilots over the last 20 years. Don't know what the relationship to EAA is but it would appear that if their (EAA) cause is to bring more people into aviation, they are failing. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:50 AM PST US From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA For me, I haven't joined because of the cost. I can't afford to build the plane I'm building, and because of that, my flying has also taking a hit. I'm certainly not paying to be a "member" Maybe one day I can join EAA. Boyce http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA From: "Glenn W. Thomas" Which is another interesting chart of numbers ...the cost of airplanes, flying lessons, hangar costs, etc. over the same timeframe as the data presented in the chart in my previous post. Even considering inflation and economic conditions, it has become one expensive hobby! On Thu, August 23, 2007 10:39 am, RAMPEYBOY@aol.com wrote: > For me, I haven't joined because of the cost. I can't afford to build > the plane I'm building, and because of that, my flying has also taking a > hit. I'm certainly not paying to be a "member" Maybe one day I can join > EAA. > Boyce > > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:33 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week Scott, My advise, for what it is worth, is to relax, don't be in a hurry and ENJOY your flight. All too many students are up tight because flying is new to them and there is more to learn to become a good, safe pilot than they realized. Don't try to impress anyone with what a "natural" your are. You can't-----unless you crash and then they will have something to talk about. Learn to "Fly the plane, Fly the plane, Fly the plane" and don't overly worry about the instruments for now. You really need to know how to fly the plane without the instruments before you learn to fly with them. When the engine or instruments fail it will be up to the PILOT to fly the plane. With a good instructor it will all come in due time. Trying not to step on any toes, but in my opinon Leon's instructor was a horse's ass for putting a new student under the hood and do unusual attitude recovery in their 2nd hour. Unusual attitude recovery and the hood are both important but a lot of students are not comfortable flying for a goodly number of hours. All too many students quite flying before they get their License because of poor instructors. I hightly recommend students look for an instructor that instructs because he/she likes instructing, not because he/she is trying to build hours. Also, don't be afraid to "fire" an instructor if you feel your not getting your moneys worth. Again, take your time, relax and enjoy each flight. Not only will you learn much faster but you will be developing a love that will last a life time. Gene > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:43 AM PST US From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun! Boyce http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:21 AM PST US From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week I agree with Gene here. It's not too thoughtful for the instructor to subject a student pilot to unusual attitudes so early! http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:54 AM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Boyce, Homebuilding is never ever because it's "cheaper" way to fly. It's always cheaper to join a good flying club, if flying is the only objective. Building an aircraft or boat or birdhouse or hotrod car, that's the hobby and reward, being able to fly your hobby is just a side benefit. Re: value of EAA, except for their lobbying efforts in Washington (sometimes questionable in effectiveness), the management of the EAA has sold out to the big aviation businesses and Wisconsin tourism. The money made at Oshcash each year is simply to support the EAA staff until the next year's event. There is only one good reason for the EAA and that's the local chapters. These internet based forums have done more for homebuilders in the last 10 years than the EAA has done since it's beginning. The EAA HQ paid staff rely on the good heartedness of volunteers to pull off the scam at Air Venture. Everything from parking to minimalist workshops is based on free help from volunteers. The EAA HQ staff would have to go out and get real jobs if they didn't have volunteers to help scam the annual parade of cash cows going to AirVenture to be milked. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun! Boyce ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA From: "Glenn W. Thomas" EXACTLY Gordon, Those are precisely my sentiments. Between this forum, Flitzer forum and a few local builders I get all I need to build a plane without an EAA membership. By not renewing when there is no good reason you are voting with your feet. I felt a little angry at OshKosh this year to find that volunteers get paid with sandwiches and that the water coming out of faucets in Camp Scholler was brown. Sure, camping was still fun, but I got a lot more out of Brodhead. I didn't want to get all negative but I guess I did anyway. Sorry for that guys. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:11 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Well said Gordon! Gene in Tennessee where it is too hot to fly or work in the shop.----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Bowen To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Boyce, Homebuilding is never ever because it's "cheaper" way to fly. It's always cheaper to join a good flying club, if flying is the only objective. Building an aircraft or boat or birdhouse or hotrod car, that's the hobby and reward, being able to fly your hobby is just a side benefit. Re: value of EAA, except for their lobbying efforts in Washington (sometimes questionable in effectiveness), the management of the EAA has sold out to the big aviation businesses and Wisconsin tourism. The money made at Oshcash each year is simply to support the EAA staff until the next year's event. There is only one good reason for the EAA and that's the local chapters. These internet based forums have done more for homebuilders in the last 10 years than the EAA has done since it's beginning. The EAA HQ paid staff rely on the good heartedness of volunteers to pull off the scam at Air Venture. Everything from parking to minimalist workshops is based on free help from volunteers. The EAA HQ staff would have to go out and get real jobs if they didn't have volunteers to help scam the annual parade of cash cows going to AirVenture to be milked. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun! Boyce ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000 000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000 000982" target=_blank>AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/22/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:22 PM PST US From: "jimboyer@hughes.net" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Are you sure its not the cost of aircraft that are slowing down the number of pilot increases? When we bought the Aeronca 7AC in 1955 it cost us $700 US and it didn't take long to save that much. I am not flying anything right now (until my Piet is done) because I don't have $25,000 to buy that same champ, or Taylorcraft, or... now; to say nothing of the cost of the new LSA's at +/-$100,000 US. Who are the new pilots now; Lawyers, doctors, etc? Jim ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:14 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: keeping the Piet Harvey, It's a decision I think you'll be happy you made. Enjoy! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:17 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: keeping the Piet I have decided instead of selling the Piet and keeping the N3 Pup that I would reverse this decision and sell the N3 keeping the Piet since am having just too much fun flying the Piet (gn-1 aircamper).It means that I will still have to rent the hanger but at least I will have room for others to join me in that hanger to help cover the cost.I have up to 4hrs. on the Piet now and everything is running as advertised.I have been invited to join the Vintage Wings production at Rockliffe at the museum this weekend as a static display which is a real honour for me.I will be landing at Rockliffe this Sunday sometime around 8 to 830 if all goes well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/22/2007 9:05 AM ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:55 PM PST US From: "Greg Chapman" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA I think, could be wrong, that what you're observing is what some of us are holding EAA accountable for. LSA was about making aircraft affordable again. As I watched this bit of rulemaking take shape it appeared the EAA was fostering it well. It wasn't until I saw the price tags on the offerings of the companies in that space which EAA supported and spotlighted that I realized someone was missing the reality check. At the latest Airventure, I was constantly cruising the area and feeling like I must be the only guy there wondering how in the world a price of $60-90k on a new Cub variation could be considered competitive. It's competitive only within the manufacturing circle and certainly not within the market. The reason that Cessna sold so many airplanes through the 60's was that the price fit within a certain percentage of the medium income. There is nothing on the market today certifiable as an airplane whose price falls within that median income target. In other words, I'm an average guy and I can't afford what is being represented as the average market. As the champions of LSA, EAA missed the mark as they supported the efforts behind these unrealistically priced machines. That's also what's wrong with Cessna's LSA. Most of the orders are from schools. Neither the schools nor the manufacturer have yet realized that they are wasting their money if they can't afford to sell an airplane to someone AFTER they get their license. In order to sustain reasonable prices and production, the craft have to become affordable for general ownership. Making that happen assures the schools that they'll have students in the future. Greg Chapman http://www.mousetrax.com http://www.layer1wireless.com "Don't start with me or I'll replace you with a small and efficient script!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimboyer@hughes.net > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA > > > > Are you sure its not the cost of aircraft that are slowing down the > number of pilot increases? > When we bought the Aeronca 7AC in 1955 it cost us $700 US and it > didn't take long to save that much. I am not flying anything right now > (until my Piet is done) because I don't have $25,000 to buy that same > champ, or Taylorcraft, or... now; to say nothing of the cost of the new > LSA's at +/-$100,000 US. > Who are the new pilots now; Lawyers, doctors, etc? > Jim > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:45 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:27 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Glenn, Thanks for that interesting data set. It looks like starting from 1929 (the earliest year available) until the early 50s, there was an increase in the number of pilots existing per year. There was of course a spike at WWII and immediately afterwards, then a decline in the late 50s for some reason (possibly due to the introduction of new medical and equipment regs? I don't know.). Starting with 1960, there was a steady increase from about 360,000 to a high of 827,000 in 1980. Since 1980, there has been a somewhat steady decline to the current level of just under 600,000. I don't know how much decline can be attributed to anyone's failure because I see many possible causes whose impact on the numbers are beyond what I would expect an AOPA or EAA to be able to alter. Even just within the world of aviation (that is, beyond widespread societal pressures), there have been significant factors that may have caused some of the decline. For instance, as pilots trained during WWII and on the later GI Bill grow older, they fall out of the pilot population. This has been written about since at least the 70s and it has an enormous, predicted, and documented impact on pilot numbers. Also, I think it's likely that as airline travel became less expensive and permeated more markets, the need for small planes flown personally by businessmen or other who just want to go from Point A to Point B declined. The explosion of cheap and plentiful airline travel options started in the late 70s. The beginning of the decline in number of pilots followed soon afterwards. I can't prove causation; it's just an observation and opinion. Another consideration is FAR part 103 "legalizing" ultralights was implemented by the FAA in 1982. Thus, for a whole segment of people truly interested only in low and slow and cheap flying, there was a new route to take to get into the air. It may be that if part 103 hadn't been implemented, a lot of these people would have been "forced" to become licensed pilots just so they could get into the air. Many who opted for the U/L route weren't or aren't FAA-licensed pilots, so they aren't included in the pilot numbers data. Thus, there may be additional tens of thousands of people who are pilots in all but name but aren't counted in this dataset. Again, I can't prove causation; it's just an observation and opinion. Possibly these three factors contributed to the decline in numbers of licensed pilots, a decline that is even greater when measured against the general population growth over the same course of time. Of course, there's lots of other probable factors. For instance, the explosion of leisure activities that have occurred in the last few decades compete with flying as a hobby. Also, expendable "luxury" income for the middle class has declined in the last two decades (though the definition of this money has morphed, too). What I wonder is, what would this decline in pilot numbers look like if EAA, AOPA, GAMA, etc. did not exist or had not developed their various programs to encourage pilot starts and retentions? That is, have these programs had any effect? I suspect that they have, but I have no data on it. Jeff At 10:31 AM -0500 8/23/07, Glenn W. Thomas wrote: >The attached .pdf was shared with me at Brodhead. It shows a concerning >decline in new pilots over the last 20 years. Don't know what the >relationship to EAA is but it would appear that if their (EAA) cause is to >bring more people into aviation, they are failing. >Attachment converted: BoatG5:pilot statistics.pdf (PDF /IC) (00B3DCBE) -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:57 PM PST US From: "Dave Abramson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Hello Group! I recently bought a C-140 to learn to fly while building my Pietenpol... I figure once I am done building (1 1/2 years and counting) the sale of my 140 will buy a nice Rotec Radial Engine for the Pietenpol!!!! Meanwhile......... I fly in the morning, and build in the afternoon! (also have 4 cars and 2 motorcycles in the hanger to get in the way) Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun! Boyce _____ . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice cowl From: "Bill Church" I was just checking the Brodhead EAA 431 website to see if they had posted any photos of this year's gathering, and saw that they had not yet. But...they do have a couple of shots of Dennis Hall's newly re-engined Air camper (from Ford Model A to Continental 65). That's a nice looking cowl. Compound curves aren't so easy to do, but they sure look nice. Here's a link to see for yourself... http://www.eaa431.org/ Bill C. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:37 PM PST US From: "Greg Chapman" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA This section carries a piece of information often glossed-over in modern study: " Also, I think it's likely that as airline travel became less expensive and permeated more markets, the need for small planes flown personally by businessmen or other who just want to go from Point A to Point B declined. The explosion of cheap and plentiful airline travel options started in the late 70s. The beginning of the decline in number of pilots followed soon afterwards. I can't prove causation; it's just an observation and opinion." There was a period which lasted until the 1980's in which airlines hired almost exclusively from the ex-military pilot population. After deregulation and the downsizing of the U.S. military, the pool of applicants shrank. The Aviation Revitalization Act came about because of the perception that the pilot pool would shrink to a critical level and the realization that new pilots would have to come from some new source. GA was recognized as that source of experience. Now that aviation careers are compensated at new lows for the industry, training is more expensive than ever, aircraft themselves are horrendously priced and on and on, I find it very difficult to believe anyone would (and definitely I would question the judgment of anyone who does) find it reasonable to invest $60-$70k in an education which will pay less than $30k annually for the first 3-5 years and offer no stability or appreciable compensation improvement for many years beyond that. All that said, my base assertion is that EAA and AOPA have missed the mark in guiding the industry and all forms of aviation will face significant problems until ownership is more affordable. For commercial aviation, the experienced pilot pool has to come from someplace and GA will not be able to generate the supply if no one can afford to even fly GA equipment. Greg Chapman http://www.mousetrax.com http://www.layer1wireless.com "Don't start with me or I'll replace you with a small and efficient script!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:32 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA > > > > Glenn, > > Thanks for that interesting data set. It looks > like starting from 1929 (the earliest year > available) until the early 50s, there was an > increase in the number of pilots existing per > year. There was of course a spike at WWII and > immediately afterwards, then a decline in the > late 50s for some reason (possibly due to the > introduction of new medical and equipment regs? I > don't know.). Starting with 1960, there was a > steady increase from about 360,000 to a high of > 827,000 in 1980. Since 1980, there has been a > somewhat steady decline to the current level of > just under 600,000. > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:58 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Gene, Re the radio antenna, I put mine behind the pilot=92s seat (HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG"http://www.c pc- world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG). I know it=92s a bit late if you are already flying but it works well. I have seen a similar antenna mounted on the outside of the fuse on a Corby Starlet that looked OK. The only problem I have with the radio is wind noise in the mike. My handheld mounts at my right hand (HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg"http:// www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg). As for the tail hook, well an electric start on the Corvair does away with the need!!!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c om/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 22/08/2007 6:51 PM 22/08/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:21 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engines for sale........ Members of the list: As many of you may know, I am one of the few builders creating a "Wide Body" Pietenpol ( hey you other guys...we need to create a neat "wide body" Logo to identify our planes) with plans of using a Continental A-65. There has been a change in plans! Keep reading..... I am going to install a c-85 or C-90 in my "wide body" as I deemed it necessary if I am going to gain any altitude....So here is the deal for fellow builders... I have an A-65 Continental for sale, complete, flange shaft, no logs, need rebuild....and I have another hanger mate who has a Continental C-75 for sale with 30 hours on rebuild. It has a log book, complete engine removed from a Zenair for more HP, less carb. He has adapted on the front of the engine a starter and generator which can be unbolted and removed. Please call me for more information and interest in these very "reasonably priced" engines! This would be a good deal for any Pieter seeking an engine for their project! Ken Heide Fargo, ND 218-486-1963 Home 701-793-3030 Cell --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:22 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Gene, When I bought Felix the GN-1 it had a rubber duckie mounted on the side of the fuze between pits. It worked ok but not great. I used an idea from an old Kitplanes. It is 2 pieces of formica 1" X 23" glued together with a strip of copper tape in the middle then held together with heat shrink or tape. There is a wire soldered to the copper at one end that sticks out like a pigtail. The ground plane is 3 pieces of alum gutter stock 1" X 23". The 4 pieces are spread out like a fork and mounted in the fuze floor and sides behind the pilot seat. I also use the ground plane for the ELT. The radio works allot better than with the duck. The radio is an Icom hard wired to a motor cycle battery, which I charge every 6 months or so. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Gene ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:18 PM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release This is how I do it. I have a 35 ft . piece of 3/16" nylon rope. Nothing else. No gadgets, hooks, or mechanical releases. I run the rope under one side of the tail wheel steering arm, then around a post, then back under the other tail wheel arm and bring both ends up to the right rear cabane ( one end around the cabane) and tie the two ends together shoe lace bow fashion and position the knot along side the cockpit. Then I nudge the plane forward until the line is tight. I give it one more push to make sure the knot will not untie. Then I prime the Cont. A-65, flip the mag switch and start the engine with throttle at full idle. The engine runs at about 550 rpm. I crawl in, buckle up,check oil pressure, and when ready, untie the "shoe lace" by pulling on one of the loose ends, coil the line up and stow it in my cockpit. Simple as you can make it. Works for me! Roman Bukolt NX20795 BTW I believe Bill Rewey and Lowell Frank also do it this same way. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.