---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/24/07: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:46 AM - Re: tailwheel steering arm question (hvandervoo@aol.com) 2. 06:07 AM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (hvandervoo@aol.com) 3. 06:25 AM - braze or weld (Dan Loegering) 4. 06:46 AM - Re: braze or weld (gcardinal) 5. 06:46 AM - Re: braze or weld (Dave Abramson) 6. 07:10 AM - Re: Value of EAA (Tom Winter) 7. 07:33 AM - Re: Value of EAA (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com) 8. 08:16 AM - Re: braze or weld (bike.mike) 9. 09:52 AM - FW: braze or weld (Patrick Panzera) 10. 11:12 AM - Re: braze or weld (Gordon Bowen) 11. 11:25 AM - braze or weld and guilt (Steve Glass) 12. 11:43 AM - Re: FW: braze or weld () 13. 12:07 PM - Re: FW: braze or weld () 14. 02:50 PM - Re: braze or weld and guilt (Ed G.) 15. 04:36 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Gene & Tammy) 16. 04:36 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Gene & Tammy) 17. 04:36 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Gene & Tammy) 18. 04:36 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Gene & Tammy) 19. 08:10 PM - Re: Engines for sale........ (Chet's Mail) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel steering arm question From: hvandervoo@aol.com Douwe, See my setup (attached) Hans -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 8:52 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel steering arm question Guys (and gals?) ? Just finished building a tailwheel, and am scratching my head about what length to make the steering arms.? How long are yours? ? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release From: hvandervoo@aol.com Gene, Too hot in Texas also, plus?frequent rain and thunderstorms make it a Humid place. The other day at 2000 feet it was still hot, unreal feeling, like flying in?a oven. Still manage to Fly at least once a week (need my fix) I use a ICOM A6 with rubber duckie, Headset and a PTT on?the stick. I fabricated a bracket on the top RH?longeron, and use the ICOM belt clip for mounting and easy removal See attached file. I get a good 4 to 5 mile transmitting range and 20 receiving. No tailhook release, Corvair with electric start. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Gene & Tammy Sent: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 3:31 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago.? While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next.? Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held.? Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna.? Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld?? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit)? Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna.? If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release.? With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in.? With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance!? What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put.? I just?raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave.? I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit.? Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet.? Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down.? I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash.? It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time.? Better get back to the Honey dooos as?THE wife will be getting home soon.? Gene?? in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld From: "Dan Loegering" Starting in on the metal parts for the controls. Have a question on the various call outs on the plans. Some areas call out brazing the parts together (elevator belcrank, etc...). Is brazing adequate here or should all joints be welded? How did you do yours? Thank you. Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:26 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld Dan, Common practice is to weld 4130, brazing is limited to mild steel. You may hear dissenting comments. Good quality welds give good peace of mind...... Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Loegering" Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > > > > Starting in on the metal parts for the controls. Have a question on the > various call outs on the plans. Some areas call out brazing the parts > together (elevator belcrank, etc...). Is brazing adequate here or should > all joints be welded? > > How did you do yours? > > Thank you. > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:27 AM PST US From: "Dave Abramson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld Brazing is VERY strong when done correctly. I think it is just easier than welding so BP made the parts he could that way. Nothing wrong with it. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Loegering Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 6:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld Starting in on the metal parts for the controls. Have a question on the various call outs on the plans. Some areas call out brazing the parts together (elevator belcrank, etc...). Is brazing adequate here or should all joints be welded? How did you do yours? Thank you. Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:52 AM PST US From: Tom Winter Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Boyce, Buy a flying C150? That's what I did. But everything costs something: having my own plane to fly sure slows down the project progress. But I'm flying. Now my main building motorvator (deliberate sp.) is to eventually pay less: when my Piet is real, rather than mostly just the sparkle in its daddy's eyes, I will do my own work on it, just like on my cars. Owning even the little Cessna costs like buying a pretty good used car every year: hangar rent, annual, and insurance make it a wallet-siphon just dripping oil on the hangar floor. And I can't legally lay a wrench on it. Oh, I can air up the tires and change oil. As for EAA, the beating heart of it is in the local chapters. Great pilot support group. I would not be a pilot if I hadn't joined the Lincoln, NE chapter. Tom ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:24 AM PST US From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Tom, you're right. It's just frustrating though seeing the costs involved, and knowing every year it's going to get tougher! But, I'm sticking with my Mustang project. I'll finish it, and after a few years probably sell it, and start a Piet or a flybaby. Boyce http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:51 AM PST US From: "bike.mike" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld BHP didn't have access to 4130, which is now the standard aircraft tubing alloy. Brazing was very strong for the mild steel tubes he could get. 4130 is stronger than BHP's tubing, but it does not braze well. In many cases, 4130 is actually weakened by brazing, even if done very well. 4130 is ideal for welding by the home craftsman since it does not require later heat treatment. Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message ----- From: "gcardinal" Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 6:47 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > > Dan, > > Common practice is to weld 4130, brazing is limited to mild steel. > You may hear dissenting comments. > Good quality welds give good peace of mind...... > > Greg Cardinal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Loegering" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:25 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > > > > > > > > > > > > Starting in on the metal parts for the controls. Have a question on the > > various call outs on the plans. Some areas call out brazing the parts > > together (elevator belcrank, etc...). Is brazing adequate here or should > > all joints be welded? > > > > How did you do yours? > > > > Thank you. > > > > Dan Loegering > > Fargo, ND > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:33 AM PST US From: "Patrick Panzera" Subject: FW: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > > BHP didn't have access to 4130, which is now the standard aircraft tubing > alloy. Brazing was very strong for the mild steel tubes he could get. > 4130 is stronger than BHP's tubing, but it does not braze well. In many > cases, 4130 is actually weakened by brazing, even if done very well. > 4130 is ideal for welding by the home craftsman since it does not require > later heat treatment. I've often wondered about the prejudice against brazing aircraft parts when I know that for many decades bicycle and motorcycle frames were all brazed, even 4130. Maybe an engine mount might see stresses way higher than a bicycle will ever see, but I doubt a stick or bellcrank or just about any of the other "bits" used on light aircraft can take the forces that a bottom bracket would be subjected to by a 175 lb triathlete stomping up a steep hill. Pat ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:34 AM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld For those of you brazing instead of welding, you may want to ck with an AP mechanic, EAA tech advisor or the FAA's acceptable practices book. I think I remember reading somewhere why it's not allowed, maybe it had to do with vibration?. It may be OK and argueable but in the end, you'll have to have an FAA inspector or DAR inspect your plane before you can get the airworthiness cert., and unless this guy thinks brazing is OK and allowed, the arguement of whether a brazed part is just as strong as a welded part is moot. These DAR's are not rocket scientists, mostly they come from a background of guys who have put together a kit plane like Van's and/or a retire commerical airline pilot who's built a Lancair, and unless they've seen this practice of brazing spam cans or kit projects before and know it's ok, they're gonna squawk. Damn few DAR's come from a background of actually building a plans from scratch airplane so they're real picky. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Panzera" Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: FW: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > > > >> >> BHP didn't have access to 4130, which is now the standard aircraft tubing >> alloy. Brazing was very strong for the mild steel tubes he could get. >> 4130 is stronger than BHP's tubing, but it does not braze well. In many >> cases, 4130 is actually weakened by brazing, even if done very well. >> 4130 is ideal for welding by the home craftsman since it does not require >> later heat treatment. > > I've often wondered about the prejudice against brazing aircraft parts > when > I know that for many decades bicycle and motorcycle frames were all > brazed, > even 4130. > > Maybe an engine mount might see stresses way higher than a bicycle will > ever > see, but I doubt a stick or bellcrank or just about any of the other > "bits" > used on light aircraft can take the forces that a bottom bracket would be > subjected to by a 175 lb triathlete stomping up a steep hill. > > Pat > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:43 AM PST US From: "Steve Glass" Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld and guilt Just to add my 2 cents. I have noticed references to brazing on the plans and wondered if it was OK still to do that. One of my other builds I want to do is a Lotus 7 car replica. The original space frame chassis were brazed. The new ones are robot welded. Richard Finch states in his book that brazing is as strong as the base metal. I have always liked the way brazing flows in and fillets joints for a neater appearance with less heat. Somehow I never felt is was as strong as a good weld. He also states that if you ever braze you can never go back and weld in that spot because of the brazing rod flowing into the pores of the metal. Has anybody else brazed their metal Piet parts. Do you feel guilty doing it? Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:56 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld Pat et al, I wondered about the same thing until I did some research. 4130 is only one of several alloys that is called "chromoly" or "Cro-Mo". These alloys are called that because, in addition to iron, the alloys have a high percentage of chromium and molybdenum, with a relatively small amount of carbon. 4130, specifically, was developed for welding by Oxy-Acetylene torches. It has a relatively low carbon percentage, compared to high carbon steels, achieving its strength through the alloying properties of the other constituents, and does not require heat treating after welding to attain near pre-welded strength. Many bicycle frames have been made, typically brazed, from tubing that has been called chormoly but probably should not be. Some lower-quality bikes have been built out of 4130, even brazed, but have been built quite heavy in order to achieve their required strength. Most bicycle frames that are brazed are made from tubing that has a much lower percentage of chromium and a much higher percentage of manganese than in 4130. Brazed bicycle frames also typically use lugs at each joint to considerably increase the amount of brazed area at each joint. It takes a lot of training and practice to become a fully competent frame builder. One extremely popular tubing is Reynolds 531 which has about the same carbon content of 4130 but a much lower chromium content and about three times the manganese. 531 is more properly nicknamed "Mn-Mo" and is much more brazable than 4130. It has been reported on this list that brazing 4130 can produce microscopic cracks in the 4130 near the braze metal. This is likely due to the high chromium content compared to alloys designed to be brazed. For the TYPICAL home craftsman, it is most adviseable to weld 4130. The skill to weld a good joint is relatively easy to acquire and the welded joint will be easily inspected. Brazing can be strong, but the techniques to get a good brazed joint are a little obscure. If you absolutely have to have a brazed joint, use a tubing alloy more amenable to brazing. Mike Hardaway ---- Patrick Panzera wrote: > > > > > > BHP didn't have access to 4130, which is now the standard aircraft tubing > > alloy. Brazing was very strong for the mild steel tubes he could get. > > 4130 is stronger than BHP's tubing, but it does not braze well. In many > > cases, 4130 is actually weakened by brazing, even if done very well. > > 4130 is ideal for welding by the home craftsman since it does not require > > later heat treatment. > > I've often wondered about the prejudice against brazing aircraft parts when > I know that for many decades bicycle and motorcycle frames were all brazed, > even 4130. > > Maybe an engine mount might see stresses way higher than a bicycle will ever > see, but I doubt a stick or bellcrank or just about any of the other "bits" > used on light aircraft can take the forces that a bottom bracket would be > subjected to by a 175 lb triathlete stomping up a steep hill. > > Pat > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:21 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: FW: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld ---- Patrick Panzera wrote: > > I've often wondered about the prejudice against brazing aircraft parts when > I know that for many decades bicycle and motorcycle frames were all brazed, > even 4130. > > Maybe an engine mount might see stresses way higher than a bicycle will ever > see, but I doubt a stick or bellcrank or just about any of the other "bits" > used on light aircraft can take the forces that a bottom bracket would be > subjected to by a 175 lb triathlete stomping up a steep hill. > As an aside on relative stresses and an illustration of what Pat is talking about, I have fatigued and broken six very-high-quality bike frames, five of which were brazed. Only two of the failures were at the bottom bracket, though. I have never broken an airplane part made of welded 4130. I have never flown an airplane part made of brazed anything, as far as I know. When I have broken my bikes, I have always been able to limp home. A failed control system in an airplane would be somewhat more problematic. Mike Hardaway ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:07 PM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld and guilt I was in the end process of building my control parts as per the plans years ago when this "no brazing" string came up. being a perfectionist I had a couple of weeks worth of work in my control parts at the time. I did a lot of research in an effort to confirm the claim. I check with the welding instructor at the tech center where I work who traines world champion VICA welding competitors, I borrowed and researched welding textbooks, I bought and checked out several welding manuals, I read 43-13 and finally I bought and read the book written by Mr. finch where this string was supposed to origionate from. The only place that I found anything on the subject was about two sentenses in Mr. Finche's book which said that when 4130 steel is brazed the grain of the steel expands letting brass enter the voids between the grain, when the 4130 cools the brass hardens first and does not let the steel contract to it's origional state causing the steel to potentially split along the grain lines. Sounds like one very experinenced welders opinion to me. I heard from several builders who said they had brazed their 4130 as per the plans and had been flying with them for many years. I have since remade some of the more critical parts and welded them but some of the small but labor intesive parts like the control tube bushings which would require additional weeks of work to remake the whole control tube will be flying with me. Bottom line is if you haven't made the part yet I would weld the 4130 rather than braze it. If it is a critical part like the bellcrank, It's not that big of a deal to make a new one. Ed G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Glass To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 2:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld and guilt > Just to add my 2 cents. I have noticed references to brazing on the plans and wondered if it was OK still to do that. One of my other builds I want to do is a Lotus 7 car replica. The original space frame chassis were brazed. The new ones are robot welded. Richard Finch states in his book that brazing is as strong as the base metal. I have always liked the way brazing flows in and fillets joints for a neater appearance with less heat. Somehow I never felt is was as strong as a good weld. He also states that if you ever braze you can never go back and weld in that spot because of the brazing rod flowing into the pores of the metal. Has anybody else brazed their metal Piet parts. Do you feel guilty doing it? Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ See what you're getting into.before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_05 07 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:00 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Hans, thanks for the reply. How do you overcome the wind noise in your mic? I think it's really unkind of you corvair guys to talk about electric start. Gene ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:15 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Peter, thanks for the info. The photo of the handheld will help a lot but I couldn't get the page for the antenna to come up. An electric start would help. Thanks again Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Gene, Re the radio antenna, I put mine behind the pilot=92s seat (http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG). I know it=92s a bit late if you are already flying but it works well. I have seen a similar antenna mounted on the outside of the fuse on a Corby Starlet that looked OK. The only problem I have with the radio is wind noise in the mike. My handheld mounts at my right hand (http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg). As for the tail hook, well an electric start on the Corvair does away with the need!!!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 6:32 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM 22/08/2007 6:51 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/22/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:27 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Skip, I'm trying to work out just how I would make the "fork". It sounds like a really good idea. Gene ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:28 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Roman, I'm trying your "rope trick" in the morning. Once you have it in the cockpit, where do you stow it while your flying? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Roman Bukolt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release This is how I do it. I have a 35 ft . piece of 3/16" nylon rope. Nothing else. No gadgets, hooks, or mechanical releases. I run the rope under one side of the tail wheel steering arm, then around a post, then back under the other tail wheel arm and bring both ends up to the right rear cabane ( one end around the cabane) and tie the two ends together shoe lace bow fashion and position the knot along side the cockpit. Then I nudge the plane forward until the line is tight. I give it one more push to make sure the knot will not untie. Then I prime the Cont. A-65, flip the mag switch and start the engine with throttle at full idle. The engine runs at about 550 rpm. I crawl in, buckle up,check oil pressure, and when ready, untie the "shoe lace" by pulling on one of the loose ends, coil the line up and stow it in my cockpit. Simple as you can make it. Works for me! Roman Bukolt NX20795 BTW I believe Bill Rewey and Lowell Frank also do it this same way. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/22/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:14 PM PST US From: "Chet's Mail" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engines for sale........ I would be interested please send photos and any other information you have. I do thank you for your time. Chet Hartley Missouri ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: Pietenpol Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engines for sale........ Members of the list: As many of you may know, I am one of the few builders creating a "Wide Body" Pietenpol ( hey you other guys...we need to create a neat "wide body" Logo to identify our planes) with plans of using a Continental A-65. There has been a change in plans! Keep reading..... I am going to install a c-85 or C-90 in my "wide body" as I deemed it necessary if I am going to gain any altitude....So here is the deal for fellow builders... I have an A-65 Continental for sale, complete, flange shaft, no logs, need rebuild....and I have another hanger mate who has a Continental C-75 for sale with 30 hours on rebuild. It has a log book, complete engine removed from a Zenair for more HP, less carb. He has adapted on the front of the engine a starter and generator which can be unbolted and removed. Please call me for more information and interest in these very "reasonably priced" engines! This would be a good deal for any Pieter seeking an engine for their project! Ken Heide Fargo, ND 218-486-1963 Home 701-793-3030 Cell ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Ready for the edge of your seat? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.