Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 08/25/07


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:05 AM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Peter W Johnson)
     2. 04:10 AM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Gene & Tammy)
     3. 05:33 AM - Re: braze or weld and guilt (Phillips, Jack)
     4. 07:38 AM - Re: Value of EAA (rmueller23)
     5. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: Value of EAA (Rick Holland)
     6. 11:48 AM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Skip Gadd)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:05:21 AM PST US
    From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
    Subject: Radio and tail hook release
    Gene, Sorry, wrong URL, should be HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg"http:// www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 7:52 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Peter, thanks for the info. The photo of the handheld will help a lot but I couldn't get the page for the antenna to come up. An electric start would help. Thanks again Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:vk3eka@bigpond.net.au"Peter W Johnson "mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com"pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Gene, Re the radio antenna, I put mine behind the pilot=92s seat (HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG"http://www.c pc- world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG). I know it=92s a bit late if you are already flying but it works well. I have seen a similar antenna mounted on the outside of the fuse on a Corby Starlet that looked OK. The only problem I have with the radio is wind noise in the mike. My handheld mounts at my right hand (HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg"http:// www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg). As for the tail hook, well an electric start on the Corvair does away with the need!!!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R 22/08/2007 6:51 PM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ 24/08/2007 2:59 PM


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:10:34 AM PST US
    From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
    Thanks Peter. It's too late for me to do as you did but it did give me some ideas. Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/23/2007 4:04 PM


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:33:23 AM PST US
    Subject: braze or weld and guilt
    From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
    Good post, Ed. It's nice to see someone actually give factual data and a real reason for not brazing 4130. In addition, I would add that welding 4130 is pretty easy and there is no particular reason to braze when it is so easy to weld. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld and guilt I was in the end process of building my control parts as per the plans years ago when this "no brazing" string came up. being a perfectionist I had a couple of weeks worth of work in my control parts at the time. I did a lot of research in an effort to confirm the claim. I check with the welding instructor at the tech center where I work who traines world champion VICA welding competitors, I borrowed and researched welding textbooks, I bought and checked out several welding manuals, I read 43-13 and finally I bought and read the book written by Mr. finch where this string was supposed to origionate from. The only place that I found anything on the subject was about two sentenses in Mr. Finche's book which said that when 4130 steel is brazed the grain of the steel expands letting brass enter the voids between the grain, when the 4130 cools the brass hardens first and does not let the steel contract to it's origional state causing the steel to potentially split along the grain lines. Sounds like one very experinenced welders opinion to me. I heard from several builders who said they had brazed their 4130 as per the plans and had been flying with them for many years. I have since remade some of the more critical parts and welded them but some of the small but labor intesive parts like the control tube bushings which would require additional weeks of work to remake the whole control tube will be flying with me. Bottom line is if you haven't made the part yet I would weld the 4130 rather than braze it. If it is a critical part like the bellcrank, It's not that big of a deal to make a new one. Ed G. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:38:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Value of EAA
    From: "rmueller23" <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Greg, I think you are spot on with your commentary on the cost of the LSA's being completely at odds with the idea that they will make aircraft ownership affordable. A quick, unscientfic survey of prices of Cubs, Champs, and 140s on Barnstormers revealed prices between $20k and $30k (except for one gentleman trying to get $46k for an 85hp J-3.....ridiculous). A new 7EC Champ from the factory is priced at $89k, new Cub variants anywhere from $92k to $120k, and the new Cessna 162 is supposed to be in the $100k range. I cannot fathom plunking down those large amounts of money for an aircraft that will provide me with the same functionality as a used original for 1/4 of the cost. One of the goals of LSA was to get more people into flying, and aircraft ownership. So, as LSA was being developed, with the cost of used light aircraft in the $15k to $25k range, it was deemed that the cost of learning to fly and own your own light aircraft was too great. In order to fix that we are going to slightly decrease the cost of learning to fly with the Sport Pilot license, and then have market demand increase the cost of used LSA's by $10k and fill the market with new LSA's that cost four times more than what was not affordable before? I don't get it. But, that may jive with what the brain trust in charge of EAA wants. Why try to attract a membership base that can only afford to fly a Piet, or an old Champ, or a 140. How in the world will those people also be able to afford a John Deere lawn tractor, a Gator, and a new Ford Mustang? In addition, I could definitely forsee a replay of the post-war aircraft manufacturing bust with the new LSA market when the demand for these expensive new light aircraft does not meet the supply. I sincerely hope that is not the case, but I'm not holding out much hope. Ah well, enough of a rant for now. My wife and I ordered Pietenpol plans, and they arrived this past Wednesday! Time to get started. Have a good weekend everyone, Ryan I think, could be wrong, that what you're observing is what some of us are holding EAA accountable for. LSA was about making aircraft affordable again. As I watched this bit of rulemaking take shape it appeared the EAA was fostering it well. It wasn't until I saw the price tags on the offerings of the companies in that space which EAA supported and spotlighted that I realized someone was missing the reality check. At the latest Airventure, I was constantly cruising the area and feeling like I must be the only guy there wondering how in the world a price of $60-90k on a new Cub variation could be considered competitive. It's competitive only within the manufacturing circle and certainly not within the market. The reason that Cessna sold so many airplanes through the 60's was that the price fit within a certain percentage of the medium income. There is nothing on the market today certifiable as an airplane whose price falls within that median income target. In other words, I'm an average guy and I can't afford what is being represented as the average market. As the champions of LSA, EAA missed the mark as they supported the efforts behind these unrealistically priced machines. That's also what's wrong with Cessna's LSA. Most of the orders are from schools. Neither the schools nor the manufacturer have yet realized that they are wasting their money if they can't afford to sell an airplane to someone AFTER they get their license. In order to sustain reasonable prices and production, the craft have to become affordable for general ownership. Making that happen assures the schools that they'll have students in the future. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130958#130958


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:59:41 AM PST US
    From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Value of EAA
    I agree with what you have said about the LSA market. Another interesting side effect of Sport Pilot is it's effect on the ultralight market (which is the most affordable way to fly). The ultralight area at AirVenture was like a ghost town. The loss of the BFI thing has really killed it. I guess most people that want to buy a two place aircraft want a 'real' looking airplane rather than an 'ultralight' looking airplane. But ultralights are still the most affordable way to go, you just have to get a Sport Pilot license now, or if you have a revoked medical go part 103. Rick On 8/25/07, rmueller23 <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Greg, I think you are spot on with your commentary on the cost of the > LSA's being completely at odds with the idea that they will make aircraft > ownership affordable. > > A quick, unscientfic survey of prices of Cubs, Champs, and 140s on > Barnstormers revealed prices between $20k and $30k (except for one gentleman > trying to get $46k for an 85hp J-3.....ridiculous). A new 7EC Champ from the > factory is priced at $89k, new Cub variants anywhere from $92k to $120k, and > the new Cessna 162 is supposed to be in the $100k range. I cannot fathom > plunking down those large amounts of money for an aircraft that will provide > me with the same functionality as a used original for 1/4 of the cost. > > One of the goals of LSA was to get more people into flying, and aircraft > ownership. So, as LSA was being developed, with the cost of used light > aircraft in the $15k to $25k range, it was deemed that the cost of learning > to fly and own your own light aircraft was too great. In order to fix that > we are going to slightly decrease the cost of learning to fly with the Sport > Pilot license, and then have market demand increase the cost of used LSA's > by $10k and fill the market with new LSA's that cost four times more than > what was not affordable before? I don't get it. > > But, that may jive with what the brain trust in charge of EAA wants. Why > try to attract a membership base that can only afford to fly a Piet, or an > old Champ, or a 140. How in the world will those people also be able to > afford a John Deere lawn tractor, a Gator, and a new Ford Mustang? > > In addition, I could definitely forsee a replay of the post-war aircraft > manufacturing bust with the new LSA market when the demand for these > expensive new light aircraft does not meet the supply. I sincerely hope that > is not the case, but I'm not holding out much hope. > > Ah well, enough of a rant for now. My wife and I ordered Pietenpol plans, > and they arrived this past Wednesday! Time to get started. Have a good > weekend everyone, > > Ryan -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:48:16 AM PST US
    From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
    Gene, These may help. The picture is looking aft through the hole in the back of the pilot seat, this is a GN-1 so the control linkage is different from a Pietenpol. I had to work in the space back there so my "fork" is not exactly like the drawing, but it is the same electrically. The dark branch is the antenna and the gold colored are the ground plane. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy Sent: 8/24/2007 7:39:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Skip, I'm trying to work out just how I would make the "fork". It sounds like a really good idea. Gene




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   pietenpol-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Pietenpol-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --