Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:00 AM - Re: Re: Value of EAA (Rob Stapleton, Jr.)
2. 07:59 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/25/07 (Ron Franck)
3. 08:01 AM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (HVandervoo@aol.com)
4. 03:00 PM - Re: Radio and tail hook release (Gene & Tammy)
5. 03:19 PM - A Good Weekend. (Peter W Johnson)
6. 03:38 PM - Re: A Good Weekend. (Tim Willis)
7. 05:09 PM - Re: A Good Weekend. (del magsam)
8. 07:33 PM - LSA and affordable flying (Oscar Zuniga)
9. 08:03 PM - Re: Value of EAA (Graham Hansen)
10. 09:07 PM - Re: A Good Weekend. (Peter W Johnson)
11. 09:16 PM - Re: A Good Weekend. (Peter W Johnson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
The ultralight community was sold out by the manufacturers who created
the
ASTM standard for the new SLSA's and LSAs. It's the same old story,
create a
cheap way to fly, there is a storm of takers, and then promise them that
the
'old boys club' will allow them into the fold with a new Sport Pilot
license. Then raise the prices to kill the industry.the real intent.
Perhaps the FAA could have just dropped the medical requirement for the
Private License and added weight Shift and PPC as new aircraft types..?
There is too much confusion by CFIs. can I instruct in a C-140 or a
T-Craft
and give someone a Sport Pilot license, what do I need to be qualified?
Duh,
read the FARs.
On the UL side getting a good trike or a PPC went from $10-15K complete
before SP, to $50-100,000 for an S-LSA after. Follow the money.!
I hear single place Part 103 trike orders are up at some of the US
manufacturers.
My bet is it is better to have a Private License and fly a Pietenpol
that is
certified for under 1320 lbs gross weight, and later let the medical
expire
and use the privileges of a Sport Pilot to fly it! You know go have some
flying fun! Forget about all this Sport Pilot confusion.
RS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Value of EAA
I agree with what you have said about the LSA market. Another
interesting
side effect of Sport Pilot is it's effect on the ultralight market
(which is
the most affordable way to fly). The ultralight area at AirVenture was
like
a ghost town. The loss of the BFI thing has really killed it. I guess
most
people that want to buy a two place aircraft want a 'real' looking
airplane
rather than an 'ultralight' looking airplane. But ultralights are still
the
most affordable way to go, you just have to get a Sport Pilot license
now,
or if you have a revoked medical go part 103.
Rick
On 8/25/07, rmueller23 <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
<rmueller23@gmail.com>
Greg, I think you are spot on with your commentary on the cost of the
LSA's
being completely at odds with the idea that they will make aircraft
ownership affordable.
A quick, unscientfic survey of prices of Cubs, Champs, and 140s on
Barnstormers revealed prices between $20k and $30k (except for one
gentleman
trying to get $46k for an 85hp J-3.....ridiculous). A new 7EC Champ from
the
factory is priced at $89k, new Cub variants anywhere from $92k to $120k,
and
the new Cessna 162 is supposed to be in the $100k range. I cannot fathom
plunking down those large amounts of money for an aircraft that will
provide
me with the same functionality as a used original for 1/4 of the cost.
One of the goals of LSA was to get more people into flying, and aircraft
ownership. So, as LSA was being developed, with the cost of used light
aircraft in the $15k to $25k range, it was deemed that the cost of
learning
to fly and own your own light aircraft was too great. In order to fix
that
we are going to slightly decrease the cost of learning to fly with the
Sport
Pilot license, and then have market demand increase the cost of used
LSA's
by $10k and fill the market with new LSA's that cost four times more
than
what was not affordable before? I don't get it.
But, that may jive with what the brain trust in charge of EAA wants. Why
try
to attract a membership base that can only afford to fly a Piet, or an
old
Champ, or a 140. How in the world will those people also be able to
afford a
John Deere lawn tractor, a Gator, and a new Ford Mustang?
In addition, I could definitely forsee a replay of the post-war aircraft
manufacturing bust with the new LSA market when the demand for these
expensive new light aircraft does not meet the supply. I sincerely hope
that
is not the case, but I'm not holding out much hope.
Ah well, enough of a rant for now. My wife and I ordered Pietenpol
plans,
and they arrived this past Wednesday! Time to get started. Have a good
weekend everyone,
Ryan
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/25/07 |
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
(Snip) The ultralight area at AirVenture was like
a ghost town. The loss of the BFI thing has really killed it. (Snip)
Rick
The ultralight area has been in a steady decline for years. I
mentioned this to EAA's Timm Bogenhagen a year ago and he didn't believe
me. I don't think Timm was around EAA in the 80's when ultralights
commanded their own, separate convention at Oshkosh. Those conventions were
great for the ultralight community, but I don't think they generated in
enough money for EAA to justify the continued support of a separate
convention.
In it's campaign for low cost flying, EAA has changed it's focus to
L$A. The enthusiasm that it now expresses for L$A is the same enthusiasm I
saw expressed 20+ years ago for ultralights. The truth is EAA realized the
"mistake" made with ultralights was a lack of vehicle and pilot
registration. $port Pilot and L$A have remedied that situation by requiring
mandatory training and licensing of pilots and of aircraft inspection and
registration. Prior to all the $port Pilot/L$A brew ha ha I was hopeful
that someday Part 103 regs would allow for some changes to increase weight,
speed and fuel capacity that reflects real-world flying, but, in my humble
opinion, it became the sacrificial lamb offered up on the alter of
negotiations when EAA was working out $port Pilot and L$A with the Feds.
Ultralights have become the unwanted, red-headed stepchild that EAA no
longer wants. (imho)
As for the continued decline of EAA's membership numbers, it's not
surprising. Those "wind in their hair" types are riding Harleys rather than
going through the monetary hassles of flying. I saw the handwriting on the
wall when EAA opened up the convention'$ flight line to the general public.
Well, that's enough ranting for now. I've got an appointment with my
fortune teller to see if there is a very light jet in my future..........
Ron Franck
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Radio and tail hook release |
Gene,
My head set is a David Clark H10-20.
A large wind screen keeps most of the wind away.
Most transmissions seem to be received OK, so I assume there is little or no
problem.
I apologize if my electric start option on my Corvair engine offended you ;-)
Hans
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Radio and tail hook release |
Boy oh boy, you just have to rub it in, don't you Hans. :)
Gene
.
I apologize if my electric start option on my Corvair engine offended
you ;-)
Hans
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8/25/2007 5:00 PM
Message 5
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Hi Guys,
Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of
the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps.
I have installed a new (10/10) nitrided, balanced crank, balanced rods and
all new seals etc. I even installed new lifters rather than drain the
existing ones. According to my engine shop mechanic the wrist pins were
nearly seizing in the pistons due to the heat. The near seizure of No 5
wrist pin caused the con rod big end bearing to slip, hence the rather loud
noises coming from the engine. His thoughts were that the wrist pin wasn't
getting enough oil so he drilled two holes in each piston so that the oil
had a better path to the bearing service. (See
http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/Piston.jpg). It certainly
seems to have worked.
The engine ground runs showed the oil temp and cht were all normal and the
pressure was good. I have a slight oil leak from the rear case I think and I
will get that sorted in the next day or so.
I went for a quick flight to see if all was well and, apart from the
landing, everything was great. Seems I know have a Pietenpol that I can fly
without having to worry about high temps.
Chewing the cud with one of our local crop duster pilots later in the day, I
suggested that he take the Piet for a fly and see if the landings are my
lack of ability or something to do with the undercarriage geometry.
A quick explanation of the cockpit layout and after levering the guy in the
seat (he's bigger than me) off he went. An hour later and nearly dark, back
he comes with a big grin over his face. Seems like the Piet is fine and I
have to do some more landing practice. A very good feeling indeed.
I'm still grinning.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
5:00 PM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A Good Weekend. |
Peter,
I want to thank you for your wonderful building pictures-- lots of details, and
good size on many of them. I just spent a couple of hours pulling them up and
looking at all the details and text.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
>Sent: Aug 26, 2007 5:18 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Good Weekend.
>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of
>the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps.
>
>I have installed a new (10/10) nitrided, balanced crank, balanced rods and
>all new seals etc. I even installed new lifters rather than drain the
>existing ones. According to my engine shop mechanic the wrist pins were
>nearly seizing in the pistons due to the heat. The near seizure of No 5
>wrist pin caused the con rod big end bearing to slip, hence the rather loud
>noises coming from the engine. His thoughts were that the wrist pin wasn't
>getting enough oil so he drilled two holes in each piston so that the oil
>had a better path to the bearing service. (See
>http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/Piston.jpg). It certainly
>seems to have worked.
>
>The engine ground runs showed the oil temp and cht were all normal and the
>pressure was good. I have a slight oil leak from the rear case I think and I
>will get that sorted in the next day or so.
>
>I went for a quick flight to see if all was well and, apart from the
>landing, everything was great. Seems I know have a Pietenpol that I can fly
>without having to worry about high temps.
>
>Chewing the cud with one of our local crop duster pilots later in the day, I
>suggested that he take the Piet for a fly and see if the landings are my
>lack of ability or something to do with the undercarriage geometry.
>
>A quick explanation of the cockpit layout and after levering the guy in the
>seat (he's bigger than me) off he went. An hour later and nearly dark, back
>he comes with a big grin over his face. Seems like the Piet is fine and I
>have to do some more landing practice. A very good feeling indeed.
>
>I'm still grinning.
>
>Cheers
>
>Peter
>Wonthaggi Australia
>http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
>5:00 PM
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: A Good Weekend. |
What were the oil pressures before you spun the bearing? I also spun a bearing
early on. My pressure was running ok at flight speeds but dropping to 15 lbs at
idle. I was battling with high oil temps untill I spun the bearing. After I
rebuilt the engine, I put a stronger spring in to raise the oil pressure. Using
the same oil cooling system...my oil temps were much lower. When the bearing
started to fail the oil temp went over 300 degrees. That was my only indication
that something was going wrong. Even on the ground the engine sounded normal
with a spun rod bearing. My conclusion.....When an rod bearing starts getting
too much clearance in it from lack of oil and excessive wear, it starts heating
oil tremendously from the extra friction between the crank and rod beariing,
sending the oil temp upwards. A spun bearing because of high oil temp? make
sure you have enough oil pressure.....
Del
Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi Guys,
Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of
the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and
lay it on us.
Message 8
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| Subject: | LSA and affordable flying |
I'm going to relate my story here for the benefit of those who might be on
the fence.
I was 5+ years in building my first homebuilt, a single-place, VW powered
high-winger called the M-19 "Flying Squirrel". I realized my flying skills
were going by the wayside as my project dragged on and I was looking up at
airplanes flying by a whole lot more than I was actually flying. I was also
a few years away from completing the Squirrel. I needed to fly and nothing
seemed affordable.
I got very interested in the Pietenpol for its simplicity, 2-place
capability, proven design, excellent support, and long history. Starting a
second project was out of the question; that would just put flying further
out of reach. One day a newly-completed Piet became available, test hours
flown off, but took my breath away with a $15,000 price tag. Time to think
about things.
1. There is no other complete, new, 2-place, flying aircraft that I want to
fly that is available for that price.
2. Neither of the two cars in my garage (one is 8 years old, one is not even
2) cost that little.
3. Our son owns an offshore fishing boat, twin outboard, that cost more than
twice that.
4. Pick up any aviation magazine and look for airplanes that can be built
and flown for anything less. Not ultralights; REAL aircraft, honest 2-place
aircraft.
5. See (1.) above. Write a couple of checks to Corky and let's go flying.
The point is that you're not going to get into the air in anything as
sturdy, as clean, as fun, as honest as a Pietenpol for anything near the
cost of one so why go looking. Look at the EAA "Wood Book" and read the
piece that is titled something like, "Why Not Build a Wooden Airplane?" by
Tony Bingelis and look at the 3 simplest wood aircraft that he lists. The
Volksplane, the Flybaby, and the Pietenpol. Only the Piet is a 2-place
high-winger, and the other two designs are veritable toddlers compared to
the Piet design that has been proven since the 1930s.
End of lecture. Build or buy a Piet and start enjoying flying as it was
meant to be! I fly as a Sport Pilot, day VFR only, and sleep well at night
after falling asleep dreaming about that next flight. You can too...
Oscar Zuniga
NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html
_________________________________________________________________
See what youre getting intobefore you go there
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Value of EAA |
Group,
I joined EAA in 1956 when it primarily supported "grass roots" aviation
and, except for a brief hiatus years ago, have been a member since.
Today I feel pretty much left out of the picture because I have
maintained my interest in simple, affordable lightplanes and the world
(including EAA) has left me behind in a different era.
But this is inevitable and we simply must hold onto the things we
cherish by devising alternatives. This group is a viable alternative for
people like us and, in some ways, it is even better than EAA was in the
early years! However, EAA always was, and continues to be, a strong
lobbying force---and we will always need them in this role. Even though
I live in Canada, the influence of EAA has been felt here because of
interaction between the FAA and Transport Canada. EAA has had a
considerable influence internationally and, I hope, will continue to do
so.
Perhaps EAA will make some changes that could reverse the loss in
membership, but there could be forces at work that nobody can control.
The middle class in both our countries (and others, too) has taken a
beating for a number of years. Pilots/owners typically belong to that
class and maintaining their habit may be unaffordable. In addition,
other less-regulated recreational activities (eg. motorcycling, boating)
are available. This could reduce the pilot population and EAA membership
numbers in the future. The Sport Pilot initiative in the U.S. is a step
in the right direction because it eases the medical requirement for
pilots (I wish we had it here!). But the new LSA airplanes are
shockingly high-priced and even older LSA eligible a/c may be
unaffordable for many.
Maybe the best thing is to build yourself a Pietenpol, have fun flying
it around the patch, and just let the rest of the world go by.
Hopefully, EAA will change a bit and survive. In the meantime, we still
have the Pietenpol-List!
Cheers,
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
EAA 2063
Message 10
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Tim,
Thanks, nice to know they are being used.
Cheers
Peter.
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A Good Weekend.
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Peter,
I want to thank you for your wonderful building pictures-- lots of details,
and good size on many of them. I just spent a couple of hours pulling them
up and looking at all the details and text.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
>Sent: Aug 26, 2007 5:18 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Good Weekend.
>
<vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of
>the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps.
>
>I have installed a new (10/10) nitrided, balanced crank, balanced rods and
>all new seals etc. I even installed new lifters rather than drain the
>existing ones. According to my engine shop mechanic the wrist pins were
>nearly seizing in the pistons due to the heat. The near seizure of No 5
>wrist pin caused the con rod big end bearing to slip, hence the rather loud
>noises coming from the engine. His thoughts were that the wrist pin wasn't
>getting enough oil so he drilled two holes in each piston so that the oil
>had a better path to the bearing service. (See
>http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/Piston.jpg). It certainly
>seems to have worked.
>
>The engine ground runs showed the oil temp and cht were all normal and the
>pressure was good. I have a slight oil leak from the rear case I think and
I
>will get that sorted in the next day or so.
>
>I went for a quick flight to see if all was well and, apart from the
>landing, everything was great. Seems I know have a Pietenpol that I can fly
>without having to worry about high temps.
>
>Chewing the cud with one of our local crop duster pilots later in the day,
I
>suggested that he take the Piet for a fly and see if the landings are my
>lack of ability or something to do with the undercarriage geometry.
>
>A quick explanation of the cockpit layout and after levering the guy in the
>seat (he's bigger than me) off he went. An hour later and nearly dark,
back
>he comes with a big grin over his face. Seems like the Piet is fine and I
>have to do some more landing practice. A very good feeling indeed.
>
>I'm still grinning.
>
>Cheers
>
>Peter
>Wonthaggi Australia
>http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
>5:00 PM
>
>
>
5:00 PM
9:34 PM
Message 11
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Del,
I never had any problem with the oil pressures, even at tick over. Certainly
high oil temps and moderately high CHT were the norm. The pressure now on
start up can go to 60psi and then drop back to the 40s when running. It came
back to around 20 psi at idle after an hour flight yesterday.
According to my engine shop the excessively tight wrist pin caused the small
end bearing to slip. The high oil temps were the product of tight wrist
pins.
Cheers
Peter.
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of del magsam
Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A Good Weekend.
What were the oil pressures before you spun the bearing? I also spun a
bearing early on. My pressure was running ok at flight speeds but dropping
to 15 lbs at idle. I was battling with high oil temps untill I spun the
bearing. After I rebuilt the engine, I put a stronger spring in to raise the
oil pressure. Using the same oil cooling system...my oil temps were much
lower. When the bearing started to fail the oil temp went over 300 degrees.
That was my only indication that something was going wrong. Even on the
ground the engine sounded normal with a spun rod bearing. My
conclusion.....When an rod bearing starts getting too much clearance in it
from lack of oil and excessive wear, it starts heating oil tremendously from
the extra friction between the crank and rod beariing, sending the oil temp
upwards. A spun bearing because of high oil temp? make sure you have enough
oil pressure.....
Del
Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi Guys,
Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of
the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
5:00 PM
9:34 PM
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