---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/30/07: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:51 AM - Re: New Guy (Ed G.) 2. 05:05 AM - Re: New Guy (Ben Charvet) 3. 05:57 AM - spinning the Piet (Oscar Zuniga) 4. 06:14 AM - Re: New Guy (Terry Hall) 5. 06:50 AM - Re: New Guy (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 6. 07:53 AM - Re: New Guy (Glenn W. Thomas) 7. 08:09 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Ben Charvet) 8. 08:11 AM - Fly-in/Lunch - Slaughterville, OK - Sept. 8th '07 (Steve Ruse) 9. 08:52 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Rob Stapleton, Jr.) 10. 09:05 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Rob Stapleton, Jr.) 11. 10:16 AM - Re: New Guy (Rick Holland) 12. 10:36 AM - EAA Opinions (Glenn Thomas) 13. 10:46 AM - Re: New Guy (Glenn W. Thomas) 14. 10:46 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Isablcorky@aol.com) 15. 11:01 AM - Snake On A Plane (tbyh@aol.com) 16. 11:42 AM - Re: New Guy (Glenn Thomas) 17. 12:07 PM - Re: Fly-in/Lunch - Slaughterville, OK - Sept. 8th '07 (Terry Hall) 18. 12:53 PM - Re: New Guy (walt evans) 19. 01:13 PM - EAA opinion (walt evans) 20. 01:45 PM - Re: EAA opinion () 21. 02:27 PM - Re: EAA Opinions (Gordon Bowen) 22. 02:36 PM - Re: *****SPAM***** EAA opinion (Glenn W. Thomas) 23. 04:44 PM - Re: Aircraft Control Cables (Dick Navratil) 24. 06:49 PM - Re: New Guy (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 25. 08:57 PM - Re: spinning the Piet (Graham Hansen) 26. 11:45 PM - EAA, Homebuilts and Experimentals (Rob Stapleton, Jr.) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:39 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Welcome to the list Tim...Your wife is a keeper!............Ed G............Do not archive >From: "Tim White" >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy >Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:31:22 -0400 > >Terry, > >Although there are finished and partially finished projects for sale, most >are of some distance. I've strongly considered travelling to look at them, >but my wife told me she thought the whole idea was to build the plane >myself and she was right! Therefore I'm building from scratch, but have >many questions regarding engine, short or long fuselage, wider, door for >passenger, GN-1 or original, etc. > >Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Terry Hall > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 11:41 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy > > > Tim, > > Are you considering buying or building? Just wondering. > > Terry Hall > Sky Scout builder > Ada, OK > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim White > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:17 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy > > > Rob > > Thanks for the reply and encouragement. Really enjoy reading your >builder's log (I've put it in my favorites). > > Thanks, > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rob Hart > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:30 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Guy > > > Hi Tim > > Welcome on board. You will find the members of the list more than >accomodating with both advice and opportunities to share in their >experiences. Being from Western Australia, and still in the early phases >of building VH-PTN, an extended fuselage Piet, I cannot offer anything more >than encouragement and best wishes. You'll not find yourself wanting in >either the aircraft or the esteemed members of the list. Make the most of >both! > > Cheers > Rob > >http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=503&FName=Rob&LName=Hart&PlaneName=Air%20Camper > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: aa5flyer@gmail.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Guy > Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:56:29 -0400 > > > I've been reading this list for about two months and have decided >to build a Pietenpol. I've ordered the plans and have talked frequently to >a Pietenpol builder (His plane was wrecked an is hanging in his hangar), >but I still have many questions. I would like to see a Pietenpol up close, >sit in it (for fit), and ask questions. I'm not looking for a free ride, >just want to become smarter before I start investing money. I live in >Springfield Ohio and would like to visit a Pietenpol owner in this area. > > Tim White > 937 325 5625 > > >" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >p://forums.matronics.com > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Explore the seven wonders of the =en-US&form=QBRE' >target='_new'>Learn more! > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:08 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Welcome to the list, Tim One thing a few guys (including me) have done is build a mock-up of the cockpit to see how they fit. You can use cheap lumber to do this, and use door skin plywood for the gussets, sides and floor. I did this and found it useful practice to get my carpentry skills up. The jig I made for the mockup was later used for my actual fuselage. Take a look at my builder's log at: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=481&FName=Ben&LName=Charvet&PlaneName=Air%20Camper You will find there is a lot of information available on the archives of this list and on the other personal websites run by guys on this list. Usually to solve any problem you can get two or three solutions to add to your own ideas. I find that I spend more time thinking about what I'm going to do than actually doing it. Ben Charvet ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:06 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet I was hoping to see some responses to the question, too. I asked Charlie (my CFI, mentor, check pilot, etc.) about it and he said that he wishes the Piet had just a bit more rudder before he'd feel comfortable spinning it. He has considerable aerobatic time, so I respect his opinion, but he didn't leave me satisfied with the answer. I'm not afraid of spins but I don't have a death wish, either. I intend to inquire further and maybe strap on the 'chutes and spin 41CC intentionally sometime. It has felt solid and predictable in both power-on and power-off stalls that I've done and the rudder seems to have plenty of authority, but others here have mentioned that the pilot can "mask" air over the tail in some configurations and that may be what Charlie is concerned about. Sounds a little too much like "Twilight Zone" to this engineer and I'm going to inquire further. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:47 AM PST US From: "Terry Hall" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Tim, I think that you will enjoy the building process. I've found the experience very rewarding. Good luck. Terry Hall Sky Scout builder ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim White To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Terry, Although there are finished and partially finished projects for sale, most are of some distance. I've strongly considered travelling to look at them, but my wife told me she thought the whole idea was to build the plane myself and she was right! Therefore I'm building from scratch, but have many questions regarding engine, short or long fuselage, wider, door for passenger, GN-1 or original, etc. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Hall To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Tim, Are you considering buying or building? Just wondering. Terry Hall Sky Scout builder Ada, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim White To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Rob Thanks for the reply and encouragement. Really enjoy reading your builder's log (I've put it in my favorites). Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Hart To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:30 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Hi Tim Welcome on board. You will find the members of the list more than accomodating with both advice and opportunities to share in their experiences. Being from Western Australia, and still in the early phases of building VH-PTN, an extended fuselage Piet, I cannot offer anything more than encouragement and best wishes. You'll not find yourself wanting in either the aircraft or the esteemed members of the list. Make the most of both! Cheers Rob http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=503&FName= Rob&LName=Hart&PlaneName=Air%20Camper ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: aa5flyer@gmail.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:56:29 -0400 I've been reading this list for about two months and have decided to build a Pietenpol. I've ordered the plans and have talked frequently to a Pietenpol builder (His plane was wrecked an is hanging in his hangar), but I still have many questions. I would like to see a Pietenpol up close, sit in it (for fit), and ask questions. I'm not looking for a free ride, just want to become smarter before I start investing money. I live in Springfield Ohio and would like to visit a Pietenpol owner in this area. Tim White 937 325 5625 " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Explore the seven wonders of the =en-US&form=QBRE' target='_new'>Learn more! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:14 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Tim, Welcome, its always nice to see another join the builder ranks. I think we all go through a research cycle of information , then existing projects availability and finally resolve to build or rebuild. I know when I started my project 8 months ago I was more interested in the flying part and thought building was a means to an end. Somewhere along the line I began to enjoy the build process more and more. I find it to be challenging and frustrating at time, however those times are quickly washed away by the more settling Zen of the project. I am finding the actual journey of the build a most rewarding and enjoyable exercise. I cannot speak for the motivations or the rewards experienced by other builders I can only relate my experience. Enjoy the journey first, the reward is sure to follow. Having been to Broadhead for the first time this year I have seen the rewards of the builders and listened to the stories. I look forward to the time that I too can join that exclusive club of builders and of flying my build to Broadhead for a peer review. I can think of no reward more gratifying than to meet the builders head on and have them review my work also. I have met no finer a group to be associated with and believe you will come to respect them and to enjoy them. Good luck and like the rest of our exclusive band of Piet enthusiast, if there is anything I can do to help or assistance I can provide, I am at your dispposal. My thoughts to share as you begin your journey! John Recine http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy From: "Glenn W. Thomas" "I find that I spend more time thinking about what I'm going to do than actually doing it." That's the beauty of this project. This way you actually end up "working on the project" at work, stuck in traffic, sleeping, etc. It's much more than an assembly process and keeps you engaged all the time. Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:03 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been flying this since the 70's) Ben Charvet http://flycorvair.com/green.html ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:32 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fly-in/Lunch - Slaughterville, OK - Sept. 8th '07 Just wanted to let everyone know that there is going to be a grass strip fly-in at McCaslin Field in Slaughterville, OK (South of Norman) on September 8th at 10AM. Sure would like to see some Pietenpols there. Terry (Hall), this isn't too far from you, any chance you could make it up here? More information here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin http://www.dfwpilots.com/board/index.php?showtopic=3208 Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:14 AM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet Oscar, Masking air over the tail could be a very big problem in spin recovery. This is why I asked. I am thinking about building a headrest onto the turtle back but don't want to disturb the air flow to the Vertical Stabilizer. I am a big guy and am worried about spin recovery with aft CG, although I am going to fit the Corvair on mine and have the longer fuselage. Any input on spins from former, and current pilots would be useful to all of us. RS -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 4:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet I was hoping to see some responses to the question, too. I asked Charlie (my CFI, mentor, check pilot, etc.) about it and he said that he wishes the Piet had just a bit more rudder before he'd feel comfortable spinning it. He has considerable aerobatic time, so I respect his opinion, but he didn't leave me satisfied with the answer. I'm not afraid of spins but I don't have a death wish, either. I intend to inquire further and maybe strap on the 'chutes and spin 41CC intentionally sometime. It has felt solid and predictable in both power-on and power-off stalls that I've done and the rudder seems to have plenty of authority, but others here have mentioned that the pilot can "mask" air over the tail in some configurations and that may be what Charlie is concerned about. Sounds a little too much like "Twilight Zone" to this engineer and I'm going to inquire further. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:33 AM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet Thanks. I am 6'-5" and am a little curious about spins and rudder authority. I have not built the enging mounts for the Corvair yet so any information on this is very helpful. Regards, Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 7:09 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been flying this since the 70's) Ben Charvet http://flycorvair.com/green.html ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:06 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Very true, can't think of a better way to get through a boring meeting is to design your next Piet component in your head, or in your notebook (everyone will think you are taking detailed notes). Rick On 8/30/07, Glenn W. Thomas wrote: > > glennthomas@flyingwood.com> > > "I find that I spend more time thinking about what I'm going to do than > actually doing it." > > That's the beauty of this project. This way you actually end up "working > on the project" at work, stuck in traffic, sleeping, etc. It's much more > than an assembly process and keeps you engaged all the time. > > Glenn Thomas > Storrs, CT > http://www.flyingwood.com > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA Opinions From: "Glenn Thomas" After reading through the "Value of EAA" topic I decided to email the EAA and give them some of my ideas since I'm not alone and not necessarily negative on the EAA. I presented many of the ideas that were discussed in this thread and some thoughts on how to bring people with frustrations like mine back into the EAA fold. Some of the ideas I presented included expanding the EAA workshop tours to include more stops (none in the Northeast right now), AirVenture builders workshops could be expanded to include something more than a beginner's welcome adding some advanced subjects like tooling, constructing jigs and tools, and producing books that have plans for such that EAA could offer as some new material. Overall, just something to make the homebuilders who feel they are "the original EAA" to feel less displaced. I had a phone conversation with the Media and Public Affairs representative, Dick Knapinski, and he encouraged me to provide more feedback and seemed to appreciate that I came to him with some suggestions rather than complaints. Of course, change remains to be seen, and it will take time, but I got a general sense that my input would be reviewed and that they were interested in hearing public outcry for things. If anyone is inclined to do the same you should email him at dknapinski@eaa.org. Worst case scenario if you continue to feel disenfrancised by the EAA it will be through no fault of your own. Time will tell. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131839#131839 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy From: "Glenn W. Thomas" Rick makes an excellent point. For example I was in a 2 hour marathon meeting yesterday and the topic was how our lab data would be delivered from an outside company through HL7 messaging. I was seen busily gathering all the perinent information and left the meeting with the attached notes. The Piet must have saved me from dozing off at LEAST once and made me quite a "productive" employee. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:31 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet Oscar ole boy we know you're enjoying your Piet but, " don't try makin it sump'un it ain't ". http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Snake On A Plane From: tbyh@aol.com Check out this Associated Press blurb from last week.=C2- Good thing it wa sn't a cottonmouth or rattler of some sort. I would have baled out, chute or no chute! Yeeeshh! I'll bet y'all do a very thorough pre-flight next time you fly! He-he-heh! You all know what Samuel B. Jackson says about snakes on a plane -- just don 't say it here in this family blog! Which reminds me - you know why cowboy boots are pointed? For kicking rattlers in the a__ ! Fred B. (08-24) 19:57 PDT Brookhaven, Miss. (AP) -- It was no movie moment when a physician, flying himself across Mississippi i n a one-seat plane, discovered a stowaway =94 a gray rat snake. Dr. Ed Carruth discovered the snake-on-a-plane when it began "licking" his a rm Thursday, he told The Daily Leader of Brookhaven. "I've been flying planes for 50 years and over 14,000 hours, and this is the most unusual in-flight emergency I've encountered," he said. "I guess it wa sn't exactly an emergency, but I did almost hurt myself when I saw it." Needing to fly the plane and lacking tools to get rid of the snake, "I did s ome aerobatics," Carruth said. "And once he got oriented, he went to the bac k of the plane." When Carruth arrived at Brookhaven Municipal Airport after his flight from M eridian, officials called a snake expert to remove the reptile. It's not unc ommon for snakes to live in airplane hangars, said Joey Pradillo, the expert .. "The snakes are in there after the mice. And the hangar is cool on the insid e, and that's why he was in there in the first place," he said. Pradillo rel eased the snake into the wild. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http ://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Guy From: "Glenn Thomas" Meeting notes.. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131858#131858 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_939.pdf ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:35 PM PST US From: "Terry Hall" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fly-in/Lunch - Slaughterville, OK - Sept. 8th '07 Steve, Thanks for the invite, but I'll be out of town that weekend. BTW, the Ada Airport is closed for a couple of weeks while the constuction company begins our taxiway reconstruction project. Save the Bob's BBQ runs for another time. Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fly-in/Lunch - Slaughterville, OK - Sept. 8th '07 > > > Just wanted to let everyone know that there is going to be a grass strip > fly-in at McCaslin Field in Slaughterville, OK (South of Norman) on > September 8th at 10AM. Sure would like to see some Pietenpols there. > > Terry (Hall), this isn't too far from you, any chance you could make it > up here? > > More information here: > http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin > http://www.dfwpilots.com/board/index.php?showtopic=3208 > > Steve Ruse > Norman, OK > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:12 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Glen, Where'd you get this pic of my Piet? :^) Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn W. Thomas" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy > Rick makes an excellent point. For example I was in a 2 hour marathon > meeting yesterday and the topic was how our lab data would be delivered > from an outside company through HL7 messaging. I was seen busily > gathering all the perinent information and left the meeting with the > attached notes. The Piet must have saved me from dozing off at LEAST once > and made me quite a "productive" employee. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:16 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA opinion Just wanted to give my opinion on the EAA descussion. Even though I'd tried to join the EAA a few years ago, and it was a joke. (The whole meeting was about who didn't bring enough beer at the last picnic. and who need to put in more time at the next raffle. Nothing about building planes). I think that it's obvious that everyone is waiting for someone to amaze them with a lecture on some aspect of airplane building. Like there is some great plan by someone to put on shows for the builders. NO,,,,I think that anyone who is half way through a building project is qualified to give their own presentation at an EAA meeting. I wish that I had the gift of Gab, and could share what I know properly, to the newcommers. But I don't. People who are halfway to completion ,,or less,,could greatly contribute to the new guy who just got his plans. On stuff like,,,how to cut a good wood joint, glueing, setting up a shop, Or making a rib jig. Don't join the EAA to BE served,,, Do join to serve the ones who haven't done it yet Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:50 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA opinion Been sitting on the sidelines and agree with most of what is said, both pro and con EAA (I don't have to be consistant.) Two of three EAA chapters that I have been around did what you describe below, Every meeting someone gets up and discusses what they have been building, demonstrates a skill such as cutting foam with a hotwire or reviewing how to do a new weight and balance chart for your airplane. It is often as informal as everyone going over to someone's hanger and asking questions. The third EAA chapter was more of a social club but those who were building got togather and "networked" Pleasant experiences all three times. One big thing for me. "Don't ever ask me to sell hotdogs! if you need $20 I will give it but don't assume I want to work really hard for just a little money!" Blue Skies, Steve Dortch ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA opinion > Just wanted to give my opinion on the EAA descussion. > Even though I'd tried to join the EAA a few years ago, and it was > a joke. (The whole meeting was about who didn't bring enough beer > at the last picnic. and who need to put in more time at the next > raffle. Nothing about building planes). > > I think that it's obvious that everyone is waiting for someone to > amaze them with a lecture on some aspect of airplane building. > Like there is some great plan by someone to put on shows for the > builders.NO,,,,I think that anyone who is half way through a > building project is qualified to give their own presentation at an > EAA meeting. > I wish that I had the gift of Gab, and could share what I know > properly, to the newcommers. But I don't. > People who are halfway to completion ,,or less,,could greatly > contribute to the new guy who just got his plans. On stuff > like,,,how to cut a good wood joint, glueing, setting up a > shop, Or making a rib jig. > > Don't join the EAA to BE served,,, > Do join to serve the ones who haven't done it yet > > Walt Evans > NX140DL > "No one ever learned anything by talking" ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:01 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA Opinions If the EAA was serious about understanding what the actual homebuilders are thinking, they'd lurk in the various internet based forums like ours. I know Knapinski lurks in the yahoo based canard-pusher group because he occasionally has a comment posted, after that group (about 650 members, with 30-50 active posters to the website) starts a bitching session about the EAA's do nothing attitude. Every forum group I attend has bitch sessions, we in the Piete group ain't alone in this. Someone in the EAA may actually lurk with many forum groups but yet don't seem to give a crap, what actual homebuilders think or write. Fact is--- Air Venture is their only reason being and this annual Oshcash project benefits only the commerical businesses that make money from all aviator/builders and the tourism of the great State of Wisconsin (love the cheese and Packers). They make very little money running workshops for actual builders, so you can fergitaboutit. The forum tents are non-money makers. Think about it, if the new EAA was really serious about supporting the building and designing, they'd be the computer web node for all things homebuilt aviation, they don't host any free forums. They'd host on their computers this and other forums, they'd have a research data bank with all tricks, techniques and details developed by homebuilders for building planes, but they don't. What would it cost them to web host and sort data banks of the last 40 years of homebuilt aviation's innovations? The reason they don't do it is because they're in the tourism business, webhosting wouldn't make them a penny. Dick K. if you're lurking out there somewhere, you can contact me if you're really interested in why old members like me have not contributed to the EAA coffers for many years. I'm one of those foolish guys 20 years ago who did the free composites workshop and spoke at the forum tents multiple times, but no more. Guys like Paul P, Wittman, etc. are no more, so the EAA is just another way of sucking money and waste time of homebuilders. Want guys like me back? Come back to the EAA's roots and quit cowtowing to the big aviation interest. Dick (if you're lurkin'), when is the last time any one of you guys in Oshcash actually built or designed a simple low cost homebuilt and put it in the public domain? Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Thomas" Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:35 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA Opinions > > > After reading through the "Value of EAA" topic I decided to email the EAA > and give them some of my ideas since I'm not alone and not necessarily > negative on the EAA. I presented many of the ideas that were discussed in > this thread and some thoughts on how to bring people with frustrations > like mine back into the EAA fold. Some of the ideas I presented included > expanding the EAA workshop tours to include more stops (none in the > Northeast right now), AirVenture builders workshops could be expanded to > include something more than a beginner's welcome adding some advanced > subjects like tooling, constructing jigs and tools, and producing books > that have plans for such that EAA could offer as some new material. > Overall, just something to make the homebuilders who feel they are "the > original EAA" to feel less displaced. I had a phone conversation with the > Media and Public Affairs representative, Dick Knapinski, and he encouraged > me to provide more feedback and seemed to apprecia! > te that I came to him with some suggestions rather than complaints. Of > course, change remains to be seen, and it will take time, but I got a > general sense that my input would be reviewed and that they were > interested in hearing public outcry for things. If anyone is inclined to > do the same you should email him at dknapinski@eaa.org. Worst case > scenario if you continue to feel disenfrancised by the EAA it will be > through no fault of your own. Time will tell. > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131839#131839 > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Pietenpol-List: EAA opinion From: "Glenn W. Thomas" I emailed a different chapter in CT and mentioned my project and this particular chapter has a bunch of Taylorcraft projects and some Piet enthusiasts in it so my opinion of local chapters may change after my first visit. I understand the importance of sharing info and not just waiting to be fed and complaining if you didn't get enough to eat. A specific reference I can make is a tool I spotted at Brodhead this summer and Oshkosh where they are both building Bleriots. This tool allows you to fit a shaping template to either end of a piece of wood and rotate the wood while pushing it into an oscillating drum sander to achieve the profile of the template. I thought this tool was incredibly cool and plan to build one to make my LG legs. I asked if the gentleman building the Bleriot would mind giving me a demo and he said come by tomorrow and he would. By the time he was done setting it up and getting ready to start there was a ring of about 20 people, just like me, anxious to see this thing work. So, my point is it doesn't matter if I gave the demo or just watched, if multiple people learned and got excited the demo was worth it. My existing chapter is not like that. There are tons of ideas folks have that you see and think "I should have thought of that!". ...which is what I like about going to Brodhead and meeting with other builders in my area. The intent of the initial post was for others who have ideas for things that would make EAA less disenfranchising, send them feedback. It can't hurt. I spoke with Dick Knapinski for 30 minutes and he seemed to understand my concerns and be willing to turn them into some type of action. I know there are others out there that are much more articulate than I and know a heck of a lot more about aviation than I do too. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:36 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables Scott You have to look carefully to see the fibers. Unwind a inch or so of cable you will see them if they are there. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables I have seen he same cable at hardware stores and it is called aircraft cable, it is also labled with a warning not to be used for aircraft. I didn't know about the red fiber test. Is that on all aircraft cable or just some? I have never seen it while cutting the cable I have from wicks. -scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables If it is real aircraft control cable there is no difference. The sure way to tell is closely looking inside the strands of wire. There should be thin strands of red fibers in the cable. It is there to tell you if the cable has been over stressed. If it has the fibers break and stick out of the windings. ( little red flags) Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Hall To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables Hello everyone, What is the difference between the "aircraft control cable" that I can buy locally and the "aircraft control cable" for sale by aircraft parts suppliers? Both cables appear identical including similarity in price. Any thoughts appreciated. Terry Hall href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:12 PM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Guy Glenn, A true Picasso........ Sincerely, Leonardo "Glenn W. Thomas" wrote: Rick makes an excellent point. For example I was in a 2 hour marathon meeting yesterday and the topic was how our lab data would be delivered from an outside company through HL7 messaging. I was seen busily gathering all the perinent information and left the meeting with the attached notes. The Piet must have saved me from dozing off at LEAST once and made me quite a "productive" employee. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:43 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet There was considerable discussion about spinning the Pietenpol a few years back. I remember contributing a story about a friend's "hairy" experience while spinning his Pietenpol, but won't include it now because it should be in the archives. Spinning any airplane that doesn't conform to a type specification, and has unknown spin characteristics, could be dangerous. Individual Pietenpols tend to differ in configuration, rigging, and weight distribution. Even if one Pietenpol displays normal spinning (and recovery) behavior, this is no guarantee that another Pietenpol will do the same. Check the list archives regarding this thread---and be careful! Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:15 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA, Homebuilts and Experimentals According to EAA's Earl Lawrence experimentals will not be covered in a new ADS-B equipage plan as part of the NexGen air traffic control. While most of us don't care about this the FAA does and will keep us out of A,B,C airspace without it. Has anyone heard of equipage plans that require aircraft owners paying for 10 percent, and the State or Feds paying 90 percent? This is scookum high tech equipment and we will all be required to use in about five years, so heads up! RS P.S. The award to start implementation was awarded Thursday: http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=9452 Rob Stapleton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.