Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Fri 08/31/07


Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:02 AM - Re: EAA, Homebuilts and Experimentals (Gene & Tammy)
     2. 05:12 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Gene & Tammy)
     3. 06:24 AM - Re: Aircraft Control Cables (baileys)
     4. 06:45 AM - Re: Aircraft Control Cables (Terry Hall)
     5. 07:10 AM - Re: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder (Tim Willis)
     6. 07:57 AM - Sky Scout and GN-1 wings (Brian Kraut)
     7. 08:08 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings ()
     8. 08:17 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings (Glenn W. Thomas)
     9. 08:23 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings (DJ Vegh)
    10. 08:26 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings (Terry Hall)
    11. 08:40 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils (Tim Willis)
    12. 09:01 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils (Brian Kraut)
    13. 09:05 AM - Re: New Guy (shad bell)
    14. 09:10 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings ()
    15. 09:29 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Brian Kraut)
    16. 10:23 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Gordon Bowen)
    17. 10:34 AM - Re: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder (Rob Stapleton, Jr.)
    18. 09:51 PM - Another Pesky "Newbie" (rpound)
    19. 10:34 PM - Re: Another Pesky "Newbie" (pietn38b@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:02:11 AM PST US
    From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: EAA, Homebuilts and Experimentals
    Rob, Just received a msg from AOPA and they state it won't happen until 2020. Also hind sight should tell us something about projects by the FAA. Their always so screwed up their never on time and never end up as they were planned. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Stapleton, Jr. To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 1:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA, Homebuilts and Experimentals According to EAA's Earl Lawrence experimentals will not be covered in a new ADS-B equipage plan as part of the NexGen air traffic control. While most of us don't care about this the FAA does and will keep us out of A,B,C airspace without it. Has anyone heard of equipage plans that require aircraft owners paying for 10 percent, and the State or Feds paying 90 percent? This is scookum high tech equipment and we will all be required to use in about five years, so heads up! RS P.S. The award to start implementation was awarded Thursday: http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=9452 Rob Stapleton ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/29/2007 8:21 PM


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:12:35 AM PST US
    From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: spinning the Piet
    Great posting Graham! You may just have saved a butt or two by reminding everyone that each and every Piet is different. Thank you Gene


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:24:53 AM PST US
    From: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
    Subject: Re: Aircraft Control Cables
    I'll stick my two cents in here. First I know very little about the engineering of steel cables, but I did work for a company that made cables of every possible type. Cable for off shore oil rigs to very light weight flexible stuff. They did make a cable that they had once sold as aircraft cable, but they no longer call it that. They decided that it was just not worth the risk of lawsuits. Now it is sold mostly in the ag market. I say this for information purposes only I am not implying that one should run out and buy uncertified cable. Back to lurk mode Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables Scott You have to look carefully to see the fibers. Unwind a inch or so of cable you will see them if they are there. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables I have seen he same cable at hardware stores and it is called aircraft cable, it is also labled with a warning not to be used for aircraft. I didn't know about the red fiber test. Is that on all aircraft cable or just some? I have never seen it while cutting the cable I have from wicks. -scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables If it is real aircraft control cable there is no difference. The sure way to tell is closely looking inside the strands of wire. There should be thin strands of red fibers in the cable. It is there to tell you if the cable has been over stressed. If it has the fibers break and stick out of the windings. ( little red flags) Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Hall To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables Hello everyone, What is the difference between the "aircraft control cable" that I can buy locally and the "aircraft control cable" for sale by aircraft parts suppliers? Both cables appear identical including similarity in price. Any thoughts appreciated. Terry Hall href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:45:44 AM PST US
    From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport@cableone.net>
    Subject: Re: Aircraft Control Cables
    Thanks for all the inputs on control cables. They have been extremely helpful. Terry Hall ----- Original Message ----- From: baileys To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables I'll stick my two cents in here. First I know very little about the engineering of steel cables, but I did work for a company that made cables of every possible type. Cable for off shore oil rigs to very light weight flexible stuff. They did make a cable that they had once sold as aircraft cable, but they no longer call it that. They decided that it was just not worth the risk of lawsuits. Now it is sold mostly in the ag market. I say this for information purposes only I am not implying that one should run out and buy uncertified cable. Back to lurk mode Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables Scott You have to look carefully to see the fibers. Unwind a inch or so of cable you will see them if they are there. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables I have seen he same cable at hardware stores and it is called aircraft cable, it is also labled with a warning not to be used for aircraft. I didn't know about the red fiber test. Is that on all aircraft cable or just some? I have never seen it while cutting the cable I have from wicks. -scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables If it is real aircraft control cable there is no difference. The sure way to tell is closely looking inside the strands of wire. There should be thin strands of red fibers in the cable. It is there to tell you if the cable has been over stressed. If it has the fibers break and stick out of the windings. ( little red flags) Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Hall To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables Hello everyone, What is the difference between the "aircraft control cable" that I can buy locally and the "aircraft control cable" for sale by aircraft parts suppliers? Both cables appear identical including similarity in price. Any thoughts appreciated. Terry Hall href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:10:20 AM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder
    I have talked with Pat Green, as well. He made his rudder and VStab 10 inches taller than plans. The difference would not appear unusual to the casual observer, but it certainly might to many Piet enthusiasts. William Wynne admired the adaptation. Pat's test pilot was 6 foot 5 inches tall, and while he had a parachute, he was too much wedged in the cockpit to get out, so he had to fly it to correct it. As I recall, he used up 2000' of altitude in multiple attempts at recovery. Lots of sweat that day. The taller rudder was added later, as Ben says. There may have been a CG issue, too, for Pat is not only far shorter, but likely lighter than his test pilot. Pat added the height not only for his own peace of mind, but also to gain more rudder authority in his own landings. BTW, Pat is a great guy. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net> >Sent: Aug 30, 2007 10:08 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet > > > Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the >Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven >fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans >tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall >pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high >and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was >yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground >before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that >ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He >made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches >to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so >the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet >that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a >link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been >flying this since the 70's) > >Ben Charvet >http://flycorvair.com/green.html > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:57:51 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
    Subject: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
    I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I am asking in the wrong place. Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:08:42 AM PST US
    Subject: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings <brian.kraut@engalt.com> I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I am asking in the wrong place. Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:17:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
    From: "Glenn W. Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
    Hi, Dennis Hall has a pretty well-known Sky Scout. Don't think he's on the list but if you contact someone at BPA (http://www.pietenpols.org/id2.html) and told them you were trying to reach him they might belp. His Sky Scout is hangared at Brodhead.


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:23:38 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <dj@veghdesign.com>
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
    nope. originally Grega did put on J3 wings but that was way back in the early days. The "normal" GN-1 has the same FC-10 profile as the Piet with the exception of a slightly more blunt LE DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:08 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > > I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if > I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or > don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian > Kraut > Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > > <brian.kraut@engalt.com> > > I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built > with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that > there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I > am asking in the wrong place. > > Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can > anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:26:45 AM PST US
    From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport@cableone.net>
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
    Brian, I am a Sky Scout builder in OK. I will be happy to answer questions. Terry Hall ----- Original Message ----- From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > > I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if > I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or > don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian > Kraut > Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > > <brian.kraut@engalt.com> > > I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built > with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that > there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I > am asking in the wrong place. > > Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can > anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:40:35 AM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils
    Wings on GN-1s come in at least two variants: -- actual J3 wings as removed from a J-3; -- a "Grega" airfoil, has EXACTLY a Piet FC10 airfoil lower surface, but the shape of a Cub upper wing surface. This upper airfoil for the J-3 is either a Clark Y or USA35B-- I don't recall which. (I know where to look on my other PC.) I do know that I have laid my Piet ribs over a full-scale Grega drawing. The difference in a side-by-side comparison with the Piet foil is that the Grega has a more bulbuous nose for the first 20 percent of the chord length. That is, it is more rounded on the front, and rises faster on the Y-axis sooner. A Clark Y template (given me) comes very close to the shape of the Grega drawing's upper wing. This allegedly leads to more gentle stalls, resulting in smoother landing flares. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: harvey.rule@bell.ca >Sent: Aug 31, 2007 10:08 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > > >I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if >I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or >don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian >Kraut >Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > ><brian.kraut@engalt.com> > >I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built >with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that >there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I >am asking in the wrong place. > >Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can >anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources? > >Brian Kraut >Engineering Alternatives, Inc. >www.engalt.com > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:01:55 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
    Subject: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils
    According to the Grega web site the difference is the GN-1 has the blunter leading edge to improve stall characteristics. The spar locations were also changed a little. I believe that they are a little closer together to make them a little taller and stronger. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils Wings on GN-1s come in at least two variants: -- actual J3 wings as removed from a J-3; -- a "Grega" airfoil, has EXACTLY a Piet FC10 airfoil lower surface, but the shape of a Cub upper wing surface. This upper airfoil for the J-3 is either a Clark Y or USA35B-- I don't recall which. (I know where to look on my other PC.) I do know that I have laid my Piet ribs over a full-scale Grega drawing. The difference in a side-by-side comparison with the Piet foil is that the Grega has a more bulbuous nose for the first 20 percent of the chord length. That is, it is more rounded on the front, and rises faster on the Y-axis sooner. A Clark Y template (given me) comes very close to the shape of the Grega drawing's upper wing. This allegedly leads to more gentle stalls, resulting in smoother landing flares. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: harvey.rule@bell.ca >Sent: Aug 31, 2007 10:08 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > > >I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if >I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or >don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian >Kraut >Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > ><brian.kraut@engalt.com> > >I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built >with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that >there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I >am asking in the wrong place. > >Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can >anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources? > >Brian Kraut >Engineering Alternatives, Inc. >www.engalt.com > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:05:56 AM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: New Guy
    Tim, Our Piet is based in Centerburg Ohio,(30 miles north of columbus, chapman is on the detroit sectional) about 1.5 hrs from springfield. I live on Chapman Memorial Airport, and with prior notice you are welcome to fly in or drive to check out the fit of the cockpit. Shad NX92GB --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:10:16 AM PST US
    Subject: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    My plane was started back in 1977 so that's probably why I have the J3 wings. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: August 31, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings nope. originally Grega did put on J3 wings but that was way back in the early days. The "normal" GN-1 has the same FC-10 profile as the Piet with the exception of a slightly more blunt LE DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:08 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > > I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if > I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or > don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian > Kraut > Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings > > <brian.kraut@engalt.com> > > I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built > with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that > there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I > am asking in the wrong place. > > Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can > anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:29:36 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
    Subject: spinning the Piet
    Would you have any contact for Pat? I am also in Jacksonville and I was not aware of any other Piets here. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been flying this since the 70's) Ben Charvet http://flycorvair.com/green.html


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:23:30 AM PST US
    From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
    Subject: Re: spinning the Piet
    Brian, My quasi-Piete (Aeronca wings) is at Kay Larken Airport in Palatka, about 45 min. down US17 from Naval Air Station JAX. Want to see it, let me know, I'll put you in contact with my builder buddies who are at the airport most days. No spins expected or planned, save them for the rated storebought spam cans or Pitts. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:29 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet > <brian.kraut@engalt.com> > > Would you have any contact for Pat? I am also in Jacksonville and I was > not > aware of any other Piets here. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben > Charvet > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:09 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet > > > > Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the > Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven > fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans > tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall > pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high > and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was > yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground > before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that > ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He > made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches > to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so > the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet > that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a > link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been > flying this since the 70's) > > Ben Charvet > http://flycorvair.com/green.html > > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:34:04 AM PST US
    From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto@alaska.net>
    Subject: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder
    This is good info...I wonder who the test pilot was I would like to contact him. How do I get a hold of Pat? Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder <timothywillis@earthlink.net> I have talked with Pat Green, as well. He made his rudder and VStab 10 inches taller than plans. The difference would not appear unusual to the casual observer, but it certainly might to many Piet enthusiasts. William Wynne admired the adaptation. Pat's test pilot was 6 foot 5 inches tall, and while he had a parachute, he was too much wedged in the cockpit to get out, so he had to fly it to correct it. As I recall, he used up 2000' of altitude in multiple attempts at recovery. Lots of sweat that day. The taller rudder was added later, as Ben says. There may have been a CG issue, too, for Pat is not only far shorter, but likely lighter than his test pilot. Pat added the height not only for his own peace of mind, but also to gain more rudder authority in his own landings. BTW, Pat is a great guy. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net> >Sent: Aug 30, 2007 10:08 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet > > > Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the >Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven >fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans >tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall >pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high >and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was >yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground >before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that >ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He >made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches >to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so >the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet >that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a >link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been >flying this since the 70's) > >Ben Charvet >http://flycorvair.com/green.html > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:51:21 PM PST US
    From: "rpound" <rpound@wk.net>
    Subject: Another Pesky "Newbie"
    Hi guys, I am new to this list also but I love the look of the Piet, the slow mo. the high viz, low cost (relatively speaking) the old look and the build it your selfishness of the Piet. I am a first time builder-to-be soon I hope and I really like what I see in the Aircamper. I was somewhat puzzled and dismayed though when I saw one advertised on E-Bay that said the empty weight was ~775 lbs. I understand that the max. gross is ~1060 lbs. leaving according to my calculations ~285 of useful. With my non-standard weight of 245 lbs. there doesn't seem to be much leeway for fuel and passengers. I do understand that the empty weight is a function of the manner in which the aircraft is built, the accessories added, electrics (or not) picnic basket weight etc. but I would appreciate if you folks could give me some idea of the "Typical" empty, useful weights of your real world machines. You might also include some idea of the accessories or lack thereof included on your machines. I would like to get some idea of whether I need to stop the drooling and look elsewhere or tell the missus that she is going to have to go on a "Crash" diet to get down to the 40 lb. passenger weight limit. I will do my part to lose the eight pounds or so for the gallon of fuel to feed the hungry hoard under the cowling at least for a quick turn around the pasture and dead stick 'er in hoping the ole bull doesn't see Piet as competition for his harem at touchdown. Anyway I do thank you in advance for the info or a "steer" in the right direction. Thanks, Rusted


    Message 19


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    Time: 10:34:59 PM PST US
    From: pietn38b@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Another Pesky "Newbie"
    Rusted My Piet uses a corvair engine with a minimal electric sys. for the ignition. My empty weight came in at 625 lbs. and it shows a gross on the data plate of 1200 lbs. It has been flown at that weight several times. Just watch the "extras" or adding a little more bracing here and there and you can build a good light airplane. I have had more fun with the Piet, both building and flying , than any other airplane I have owned. Have fun Jim Ballew http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour




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