Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:02 AM - Re: EAA, Homebuilts and Experimentals (Gene & Tammy)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Gene & Tammy)
3. 06:24 AM - Re: Aircraft Control Cables (baileys)
4. 06:45 AM - Re: Aircraft Control Cables (Terry Hall)
5. 07:10 AM - Re: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder (Tim Willis)
6. 07:57 AM - Sky Scout and GN-1 wings (Brian Kraut)
7. 08:08 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings ()
8. 08:17 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings (Glenn W. Thomas)
9. 08:23 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings (DJ Vegh)
10. 08:26 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings (Terry Hall)
11. 08:40 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils (Tim Willis)
12. 09:01 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils (Brian Kraut)
13. 09:05 AM - Re: New Guy (shad bell)
14. 09:10 AM - Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings ()
15. 09:29 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Brian Kraut)
16. 10:23 AM - Re: spinning the Piet (Gordon Bowen)
17. 10:34 AM - Re: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder (Rob Stapleton, Jr.)
18. 09:51 PM - Another Pesky "Newbie" (rpound)
19. 10:34 PM - Re: Another Pesky "Newbie" (pietn38b@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: EAA, Homebuilts and Experimentals |
Rob,
Just received a msg from AOPA and they state it won't happen until 2020.
Also hind sight should tell us something about projects by the FAA.
Their always so screwed up their never on time and never end up as they
were planned.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Stapleton, Jr.
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 1:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA, Homebuilts and Experimentals
According to EAA's Earl Lawrence experimentals will not be covered in
a new ADS-B equipage plan as part of the NexGen air traffic control.
While most of us don't care about this the FAA does and will keep us out
of A,B,C airspace without it.
Has anyone heard of equipage plans that require aircraft owners paying
for 10 percent, and the State or Feds paying 90 percent? This is scookum
high tech equipment and we will all be required to use in about five
years, so heads up!
RS
P.S. The award to start implementation was awarded Thursday:
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=9452
Rob Stapleton
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
8/29/2007 8:21 PM
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: spinning the Piet |
Great posting Graham! You may just have saved a butt or two by reminding
everyone that each and every Piet is different.
Thank you
Gene
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft Control Cables |
I'll stick my two cents in here. First I know very little about the
engineering of steel cables, but I did work for a company that made
cables of every possible type. Cable for off shore oil rigs to very
light weight flexible stuff.
They did make a cable that they had once sold as aircraft cable, but
they no longer call it that. They decided that it was just not worth
the risk of lawsuits. Now it is sold mostly in the ag market. I say
this for information purposes only I am not implying that one should run
out and buy uncertified cable.
Back to lurk mode
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
Scott
You have to look carefully to see the fibers. Unwind a inch or so of
cable you will see them if they are there.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
I have seen he same cable at hardware stores and it is called
aircraft cable, it is also labled with a warning not to be used for
aircraft. I didn't know about the red fiber test. Is that on all
aircraft cable or just some? I have never seen it while cutting the
cable I have from wicks.
-scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
If it is real aircraft control cable there is no difference. The
sure way to tell is closely looking inside the strands of wire. There
should be thin strands of red fibers in the cable. It is there to tell
you if the cable has been over stressed. If it has the fibers break and
stick out of the windings. ( little red flags)
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Hall
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
Hello everyone,
What is the difference between the "aircraft control cable" that
I can buy locally and the "aircraft control cable" for sale by aircraft
parts suppliers? Both cables appear identical including similarity in
price. Any thoughts appreciated.
Terry Hall
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Aircraft Control Cables |
Thanks for all the inputs on control cables. They have been extremely
helpful. Terry Hall
----- Original Message -----
From: baileys
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
I'll stick my two cents in here. First I know very little about the
engineering of steel cables, but I did work for a company that made
cables of every possible type. Cable for off shore oil rigs to very
light weight flexible stuff.
They did make a cable that they had once sold as aircraft cable, but
they no longer call it that. They decided that it was just not worth
the risk of lawsuits. Now it is sold mostly in the ag market. I say
this for information purposes only I am not implying that one should run
out and buy uncertified cable.
Back to lurk mode
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
Scott
You have to look carefully to see the fibers. Unwind a inch or so
of cable you will see them if they are there.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
I have seen he same cable at hardware stores and it is called
aircraft cable, it is also labled with a warning not to be used for
aircraft. I didn't know about the red fiber test. Is that on all
aircraft cable or just some? I have never seen it while cutting the
cable I have from wicks.
-scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
If it is real aircraft control cable there is no difference.
The sure way to tell is closely looking inside the strands of wire.
There should be thin strands of red fibers in the cable. It is there to
tell you if the cable has been over stressed. If it has the fibers
break and stick out of the windings. ( little red flags)
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Hall
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Control Cables
Hello everyone,
What is the difference between the "aircraft control cable"
that I can buy locally and the "aircraft control cable" for sale by
aircraft parts suppliers? Both cables appear identical including
similarity in price. Any thoughts appreciated.
Terry Hall
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder |
I have talked with Pat Green, as well. He made his rudder and VStab 10 inches
taller than plans. The difference would not appear unusual to the casual observer,
but it certainly might to many Piet enthusiasts. William Wynne admired
the adaptation.
Pat's test pilot was 6 foot 5 inches tall, and while he had a parachute, he was
too much wedged in the cockpit to get out, so he had to fly it to correct it.
As I recall, he used up 2000' of altitude in multiple attempts at recovery.
Lots of sweat that day. The taller rudder was added later, as Ben says.
There may have been a CG issue, too, for Pat is not only far shorter, but likely
lighter than his test pilot. Pat added the height not only for his own peace
of mind, but also to gain more rudder authority in his own landings.
BTW, Pat is a great guy.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Aug 30, 2007 10:08 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet
>
>
> Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the
>Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven
>fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans
>tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall
>pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high
>and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was
>yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground
>before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that
>ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He
>made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches
>to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so
>the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet
>that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a
>link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been
>flying this since the 70's)
>
>Ben Charvet
>http://flycorvair.com/green.html
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Sky Scout and GN-1 wings |
I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built with GN-1
wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that there are none
with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I am asking in the wrong
place.
Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can anyone refer
me to other good Sky Scout resources?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
Message 7
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Subject: | Sky Scout and GN-1 wings |
I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if
I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or
don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
<brian.kraut@engalt.com>
I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built
with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that
there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I
am asking in the wrong place.
Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can
anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings |
Hi,
Dennis Hall has a pretty well-known Sky Scout. Don't think he's on the
list but if you contact someone at BPA
(http://www.pietenpols.org/id2.html) and told them you were trying to
reach him they might belp. His Sky Scout is hangared at Brodhead.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings |
nope. originally Grega did put on J3 wings but that was way back in the
early days. The "normal" GN-1 has the same FC-10 profile as the Piet with
the exception of a slightly more blunt LE
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
> I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if
> I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or
> don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
> Kraut
> Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
> <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built
> with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that
> there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I
> am asking in the wrong place.
>
> Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can
> anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
>
>
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings |
Brian,
I am a Sky Scout builder in OK. I will be happy to answer questions. Terry
Hall
----- Original Message -----
From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
> I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if
> I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or
> don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
> Kraut
> Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
> <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built
> with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that
> there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I
> am asking in the wrong place.
>
> Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can
> anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils |
Wings on GN-1s come in at least two variants:
-- actual J3 wings as removed from a J-3;
-- a "Grega" airfoil, has EXACTLY a Piet FC10 airfoil lower surface, but the shape
of a Cub upper wing surface.
This upper airfoil for the J-3 is either a Clark Y or USA35B-- I don't recall which.
(I know where to look on my other PC.)
I do know that I have laid my Piet ribs over a full-scale Grega drawing. The difference
in a side-by-side comparison with the Piet foil is that the Grega has
a more bulbuous nose for the first 20 percent of the chord length. That is,
it is more rounded on the front, and rises faster on the Y-axis sooner. A Clark
Y template (given me) comes very close to the shape of the Grega drawing's
upper wing.
This allegedly leads to more gentle stalls, resulting in smoother landing flares.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
>Sent: Aug 31, 2007 10:08 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
>
>I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if
>I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or
>don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
>Kraut
>Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
><brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
>I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built
>with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that
>there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I
>am asking in the wrong place.
>
>Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can
>anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources?
>
>Brian Kraut
>Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
>www.engalt.com
>
>
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils |
According to the Grega web site the difference is the GN-1 has the blunter leading
edge to improve stall characteristics. The spar locations were also changed
a little. I believe that they are a little closer together to make them a
little taller and stronger.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim
Willis
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings-- GN-1 foils
Wings on GN-1s come in at least two variants:
-- actual J3 wings as removed from a J-3;
-- a "Grega" airfoil, has EXACTLY a Piet FC10 airfoil lower surface, but the shape
of a Cub upper wing surface.
This upper airfoil for the J-3 is either a Clark Y or USA35B-- I don't recall which.
(I know where to look on my other PC.)
I do know that I have laid my Piet ribs over a full-scale Grega drawing. The difference
in a side-by-side comparison with the Piet foil is that the Grega has
a more bulbuous nose for the first 20 percent of the chord length. That is,
it is more rounded on the front, and rises faster on the Y-axis sooner. A Clark
Y template (given me) comes very close to the shape of the Grega drawing's
upper wing.
This allegedly leads to more gentle stalls, resulting in smoother landing flares.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
>Sent: Aug 31, 2007 10:08 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
>
>I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing if
>I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or
>don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
>Kraut
>Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
><brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
>I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built
>with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean that
>there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or I
>am asking in the wrong place.
>
>Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can
>anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources?
>
>Brian Kraut
>Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
>www.engalt.com
>
>
Message 13
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|
Tim, Our Piet is based in Centerburg Ohio,(30 miles north of columbus, chapman
is on the detroit sectional) about 1.5 hrs from springfield. I live on Chapman
Memorial Airport, and with prior notice you are welcome to fly in or drive to
check out the fit of the cockpit.
Shad
NX92GB
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
Message 14
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Subject: | Sky Scout and GN-1 wings |
My plane was started back in 1977 so that's probably why I have the J3
wings.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh
Sent: August 31, 2007 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
nope. originally Grega did put on J3 wings but that was way back in
the
early days. The "normal" GN-1 has the same FC-10 profile as the Piet
with
the exception of a slightly more blunt LE
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
> I may be wrong here but I believe the gn-1 wing is actually a J3 wing
if
> I'm not mistaken and this may help some to realize what they have or
> don't have.I know the wings on my gn-1 Piet are J3's.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
> Kraut
> Sent: August 31, 2007 10:57 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout and GN-1 wings
>
> <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> I asked about a week ago if anyone knew of any other Sky Scouts built
> with GN-1 wings and I have not had any responses. That might mean
that
> there are none with the GN-1 wings, there are very few Sky Scouts, or
I
> am asking in the wrong place.
>
> Are there any other Sky Scout builders or owners on this list? Can
> anyone refer me to other good Sky Scout resources?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
>
>
Message 15
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|
Subject: | spinning the Piet |
Would you have any contact for Pat? I am also in Jacksonville and I was not
aware of any other Piets here.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben
Charvet
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet
Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the
Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven
fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans
tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall
pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high
and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was
yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground
before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that
ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He
made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches
to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so
the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet
that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a
link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been
flying this since the 70's)
Ben Charvet
http://flycorvair.com/green.html
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: spinning the Piet |
Brian,
My quasi-Piete (Aeronca wings) is at Kay Larken Airport in Palatka, about
45 min. down US17 from Naval Air Station JAX. Want to see it, let me know,
I'll put you in contact with my builder buddies who are at the airport most
days. No spins expected or planned, save them for the rated storebought
spam cans or Pitts.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet
> <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> Would you have any contact for Pat? I am also in Jacksonville and I was
> not
> aware of any other Piets here.
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben
> Charvet
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:09 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet
>
>
>
> Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the
> Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven
> fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans
> tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall
> pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high
> and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was
> yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground
> before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that
> ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He
> made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches
> to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so
> the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet
> that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a
> link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been
> flying this since the 70's)
>
> Ben Charvet
> http://flycorvair.com/green.html
>
>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder |
This is good info...I wonder who the test pilot was I would like to contact
him. How do I get a hold of Pat?
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet - Pat Green Rudder
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
I have talked with Pat Green, as well. He made his rudder and VStab 10
inches taller than plans. The difference would not appear unusual to the
casual observer, but it certainly might to many Piet enthusiasts. William
Wynne admired the adaptation.
Pat's test pilot was 6 foot 5 inches tall, and while he had a parachute, he
was too much wedged in the cockpit to get out, so he had to fly it to
correct it. As I recall, he used up 2000' of altitude in multiple attempts
at recovery. Lots of sweat that day. The taller rudder was added later, as
Ben says.
There may have been a CG issue, too, for Pat is not only far shorter, but
likely lighter than his test pilot. Pat added the height not only for his
own peace of mind, but also to gain more rudder authority in his own
landings.
BTW, Pat is a great guy.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Aug 30, 2007 10:08 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spinning the Piet
>
>
> Pat Green in Jacksonville told me story story about spinning the
>Piet. This guy has a Piet with a BP conversion Corvair with belt driven
>fan. He was commenting that his Piet with a rudder built to the plans
>tended to loose rudder authority on the flair, especially with a tall
>pilot. Anyway a friend of his strapped on a chute and took it up high
>and put it into a spin. Pat was on the ground watching this, and he was
>yelling Jump out!, Jump out! because it got pretty close to the ground
>before the pilot recovered. Later on Pat had a small accident that
>ended up with the Piet on its back and he had to rebuild the rudder. He
>made it a little bit taller. After talking to him I added 3 or 4 inches
>to my rudder when I built it. I'm extending my motormount 4 inches, so
>the extra rudder authority won't hurt. Getting in and out of a Piet
>that was spinning while wearing a parachute wouldn't be easy. Here is a
>link to a picture of Pat's Piet. (He is over 70 years old and has been
>flying this since the 70's)
>
>Ben Charvet
>http://flycorvair.com/green.html
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Another Pesky "Newbie" |
Hi guys, I am new to this list also but I love the look of the Piet, the
slow mo. the high viz, low cost (relatively speaking) the old look and
the
build it your selfishness of the Piet. I am a first time builder-to-be
soon
I hope and I really like what I see in the Aircamper. I was somewhat
puzzled and dismayed though when I saw one advertised on E-Bay that said
the
empty weight was ~775 lbs. I understand that the max. gross is ~1060
lbs.
leaving according to my calculations ~285 of useful. With my
non-standard
weight of 245 lbs. there doesn't seem to be much leeway for fuel and
passengers. I do understand that the empty weight is a function of the
manner in which the aircraft is built, the accessories added, electrics
(or
not) picnic basket weight etc. but I would appreciate if you folks
could
give me some idea of the "Typical" empty, useful weights of your real
world
machines. You might also include some idea of the accessories or lack
thereof included on your machines.
I would like to get some idea of whether I need to stop the drooling and
look elsewhere or tell the missus that she is going to have to go on a
"Crash" diet to get down to the 40 lb. passenger weight limit. I will
do my
part to lose the eight pounds or so for the gallon of fuel to feed the
hungry hoard under the cowling at least for a quick turn around the
pasture
and dead stick 'er in hoping the ole bull doesn't see Piet as
competition
for his harem at touchdown.
Anyway I do thank you in advance for the info or a "steer" in the right
direction.
Thanks,
Rusted
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Another Pesky "Newbie" |
Rusted
My Piet uses a corvair engine with a minimal electric sys. for the ignition.
My empty weight came in at 625 lbs. and it shows a gross on the data plate
of 1200 lbs. It has been flown at that weight several times. Just watch the
"extras" or adding a little more bracing here and there and you can build a
good light airplane. I have had more fun with the Piet, both building and
flying , than any other airplane I have owned.
Have fun Jim Ballew
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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