---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/03/07: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:37 AM - Re: another "Johnson Airspeed Indicator" (Gene & Tammy) 2. 06:59 AM - watch out Fisherman (walt evans) 3. 09:39 AM - Cabane fitting question (Jack T. Textor) 4. 09:40 AM - Engine question...... (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 5. 10:52 AM - Re: Engine question...... (Rick Holland) 6. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Welding Headache (Jim Ash) 7. 03:22 PM - tail gear collapse (Jeff Boatright) 8. 04:29 PM - Re: Engine question...... (Tim Willis) 9. 05:23 PM - Re: tail gear collapse (Dick Navratil) 10. 07:18 PM - Re: tail gear collapse (Jeff Boatright) 11. 07:29 PM - Re: tail gear collapse (Peter W Johnson) 12. 07:33 PM - Re: Engine question...... (Rcaprd@aol.com) 13. 07:53 PM - Re: tail gear collapse (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:09 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: another "Johnson Airspeed Indicator" Oscar you did it again. What a great find! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: another "Johnson Airspeed Indicator" > > > Just saw another nifty construction detail and drawing for a "Johnson > Airspeed Indicator", as used by the Dawn Patrol guys: > > http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/airspeed-indicator.htm > > It's got dimensions and it's the right airspeed range for our airplanes... > 30 to 90 MPH. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get the device you want, with the Hotmail you love. > http://www.windowsmobile.com/hotmailmobile?ocid=MobileHMTagline_1 > > > -- > 269.13.2/984 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 12:59 PM > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:37 AM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Pietenpol-List: watch out Fisherman Felix was packing winds of up to 165 mph as it headed west, according to the U.S. National Hurricane Center. It was projected to skirt Honduras' coastline on Tuesday before slamming into Belize on Wednesday. Hurricane watches have been issued for the Caribbean coast of Guatemala and the entire coast of Belize as Felix churns west through the Caribbean. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane fitting question From: "Jack T. Textor" Happy Labor Day all! I'm fabricating my rear cabane fittings and had a question. I'm doing the three piece wing. The plans show a width of =BE inch for the piece that wraps under the spar center section. I'm thing about making that piece 1 inch. Have other done this or should I stick with =BE? Thanks, Jack Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:20 AM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine question...... Fellow Pieter's: Forgive me for sticking my neck out.....just curious how many other applications of engines have been tried in the pietenpol? With Continental and Lycoming prices on the rise, just wondering if other applications have been used (outside of the Model A also)? Sincerely, Village idiot --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:19 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine question...... If you don't mine building the engine yourself you can do a Corvair for around $3000 - $6000 depending on how much you can fabricate yourself. Rick On 9/3/07, KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP wrote: > > Fellow Pieter's: > > Forgive me for sticking my neck out.....just curious how many other > applications of engines have been tried in the pietenpol? With Continental > and Lycoming prices on the rise, just wondering if other applications have > been used (outside of the Model A also)? > > Sincerely, > > Village idiot > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:54 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Headache That would be Richard Smoot. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Ben Charvet >Sent: Sep 2, 2007 7:54 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Headache > > >I don't remember his name, but he had a big beard. I didn't see him >there last year. > >Ben >Jim Ash wrote: > >> >>Do you remember the instructor at Sun 'n Fun or what he looked like? >> >>Jim Ash >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >> >>>From: Ben Charvet >>>Sent: Sep 2, 2007 12:08 PM >>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding Headache >>> >>> >>>I'm not an expert welder, even though my life will some day depend on >>>it, but my experience matches Walt's. I've seen most of my popping >>>using the torch with the gas turned down too low. How much oxygen you >>>use should be a relatively fixed ratio to give the proper flame shape. >>>This a very important part of welding. I attended a welding workshop >>>at Sun-N-Fun a few years ago, and the instructor spent 15 minutes >>>showing me how to adjust the flame. Too much oxygen gives you a sharp >>>pointed inner cone that puts too much oxygen in the weld and could cause >>>your brittleness. If you haven't already, get a copy of the Finch >>>(Robert or Richard) book on welding, and he gives a lot of good >>>advice.I use the "0" tip for nearly everything on the Piet, unless the >>>metal is close to 1/8 inch thick, like landing gear legs. I use a chart >>>I picked up at a welding store that recommends tip sizes. >>> >>>Ben Charvet >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:05 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse Gang, I broke the Piet's tail gear this afternoon - broke at the welds of the "V", just ahead of the vertical spring. The 30 year old welds couldn't take the pounding that occurs with one of my multi-hop landings. Does anyone know of a gear that can be bought? The current gear uses the two steel tubes in a V as per the later plans (I think) with a spring running vertically at the point of the "V". What we have now is probably not repairable. I've attached photos prior to the collapse. They're not very good; I'll try to upload better ones later. We have four fly-ins starting 10 days from now that I'd really like to make if at all possible. One of them my Dad is coming into town specifically to ride in the Piet to. I'm open to any suggestions about how to beg, borrow, or buy a complete "V". Note that the tailwheel and hardware is fine; it's just the "V" that is knackered. In the mean time, I'm ordering tubing from AS&S to make a new one. Thanks, Jeff ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:40 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine question...... Ken, There is a list somewhere of all the engines someone had compiled that had bveen used on a the Piet. I can't find it now. As you likely know the big three for Piets has been-- the Ford Model A and B, the Continental (most often A65), and the Corvair. The older Continentals and the Corvairs seems most practical to me, and their numbers would seem to confirm that. Other aircraft engines include some Lycoming, Franklin, and more recently Rotax, as well as a great many radials (those spread across not too many actual flying planes-- many "one-offs"). Other auto engines include several Subarus and a few more modern small Fords (an English or Euro engine, I think). A Toyota, Nissan or Mazda should work as well as a small Ford engine, but it's most often better to follow a trail of adaptation than blaze a new one. No doubt someone has put a Mazda rotary in a Piet, too. These other auto engines are water-cooled. The Subarus have the advantage of pancake design and some good documentation. No one should try a VW,--" the other air-cooled auto engine"-- in a Piet, I believe, for the combo of the Piet's weight, drag and 2-place capacity is at the edge of the best VWs; e.g., Great Plains, IMO. The Corvairs are almost an aircraft engine at the outset. Other than the Model A or Corvair, the other auto engines almost always require a speed (rpm) reducer. If you are going that way, something to consider would be a modern motorcycle engine with fuel injection and all that. For motorcycle engines, the Honda Gold Wing has higher torque and lower rpm than most other motorcylces, and would be my choice on paper. I think you might get a used one for $1200 or so, but then might have to figure out how to adapt computer and fuel injection issues. Direct drive might actually work on this particular engine. However, as I've said, I favor the Continentals or the Corvair. What are you considering? Tim in central TX AM >To: Pietenpol >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine question...... > >Fellow Pieter's: > > Forgive me for sticking my neck out.....just curious how many other applications of engines have been tried in the pietenpol? With Continental and Lycoming prices on the rise, just wondering if other applications have been used (outside of the Model A also)? > > Sincerely, > > Village idiot > > >--------------------------------- >Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:28 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse Jeff Seems to me, you have the new tube coming, you can make a new one in a afternoon. Slap on a couple coats of paint and do the fly ins. Can you do your own welding? If not, someone here might do it for you. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 5:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse > Gang, > > I broke the Piet's tail gear this afternoon - broke at the welds of > the "V", just ahead of the vertical spring. The 30 year old welds > couldn't take the pounding that occurs with one of my multi-hop > landings. > > Does anyone know of a gear that can be bought? The current gear uses > the two steel tubes in a V as per the later plans (I think) with a > spring running vertically at the point of the "V". What we have now > is probably not repairable. I've attached photos prior to the > collapse. They're not very good; I'll try to upload better ones later. > > We have four fly-ins starting 10 days from now that I'd really like > to make if at all possible. One of them my Dad is coming into town > specifically to ride in the Piet to. I'm open to any suggestions > about how to beg, borrow, or buy a complete "V". Note that the > tailwheel and hardware is fine; it's just the "V" that is knackered. > In the mean time, I'm ordering tubing from AS&S to make a new one. > > Thanks, > > Jeff ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:10 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse Does anyone know the tubing specs for this application? The diameter of the tubes use previously is 5/8", but I can't tell what the thickness is. Thanks, Jeff At 7:19 PM -0500 9/3/07, Dick Navratil wrote: > > >Jeff >Seems to me, you have the new tube coming, you can make a new one in >a afternoon. Slap on a couple coats of paint and do the fly ins. >Can you do your own welding? If not, someone here might do it for you. >Dick >----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" >To: >Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 5:19 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse > >>Gang, >> >>I broke the Piet's tail gear this afternoon - broke at the welds of >>the "V", just ahead of the vertical spring. The 30 year old welds >>couldn't take the pounding that occurs with one of my multi-hop >>landings. >> >>Does anyone know of a gear that can be bought? The current gear uses >>the two steel tubes in a V as per the later plans (I think) with a >>spring running vertically at the point of the "V". What we have now >>is probably not repairable. I've attached photos prior to the >>collapse. They're not very good; I'll try to upload better ones later. >> >>We have four fly-ins starting 10 days from now that I'd really like >>to make if at all possible. One of them my Dad is coming into town >>specifically to ride in the Piet to. I'm open to any suggestions >>about how to beg, borrow, or buy a complete "V". Note that the >>tailwheel and hardware is fine; it's just the "V" that is knackered. >>In the mean time, I'm ordering tubing from AS&S to make a new one. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jeff > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:20 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse Jeff, 5/8 inch 20 gauge (0.035")??. You will need about 34 inches. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Tuesday, 4 September 2007 12:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse Does anyone know the tubing specs for this application? The diameter of the tubes use previously is 5/8", but I can't tell what the thickness is. Thanks, Jeff At 7:19 PM -0500 9/3/07, Dick Navratil wrote: > > >Jeff >Seems to me, you have the new tube coming, you can make a new one in >a afternoon. Slap on a couple coats of paint and do the fly ins. >Can you do your own welding? If not, someone here might do it for you. >Dick >----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" >To: >Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 5:19 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse > >>Gang, >> >>I broke the Piet's tail gear this afternoon - broke at the welds of >>the "V", just ahead of the vertical spring. The 30 year old welds >>couldn't take the pounding that occurs with one of my multi-hop >>landings. >> >>Does anyone know of a gear that can be bought? The current gear uses >>the two steel tubes in a V as per the later plans (I think) with a >>spring running vertically at the point of the "V". What we have now >>is probably not repairable. I've attached photos prior to the >>collapse. They're not very good; I'll try to upload better ones later. >> >>We have four fly-ins starting 10 days from now that I'd really like >>to make if at all possible. One of them my Dad is coming into town >>specifically to ride in the Piet to. I'm open to any suggestions >>about how to beg, borrow, or buy a complete "V". Note that the >>tailwheel and hardware is fine; it's just the "V" that is knackered. >>In the mean time, I'm ordering tubing from AS&S to make a new one. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jeff > > 4:32 PM 4:32 PM ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:40 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine question...... In a message dated 9/3/2007 11:41:21 AM Central Daylight Time, kmheidecpo@yahoo.com writes: Forgive me for sticking my neck out.....just curious how many other applications of engines have been tried in the pietenpol? With Continental and Lycoming prices on the rise, just wondering if other applications have been used (outside of the Model A also)? The 'Pietenpol Aircamper' has had a wider variety of engines installed in this airframe, than any other aircraft in history. Direct drive, long stroke engines that swing a big prop work best. Chuck G. NX770CG http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:16 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail gear collapse Jeff, The plans tail skid call for 5/8" 20ga (.035") wall thickness. One thing to keep in mind is how much higher the tail sits, after you put that wheel under the 'Vee'. On my plane, I tried to keep the tail as low as I could, by installing the wheel behind the aft edge of the 'Vee', in order to keep the tail as low as possible. This helps with doing full stall landings, and keeps a lot of the twisting loads from breaking the assembly. On the ground, I spin the tail around and around with the smoke on, and haven't had any problems twisting the tail assembly. Chuck G. 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