Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:04 AM - Re: wheel camber (Tom Bernie)
2. 08:24 AM - re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale (Richard and Kathryn Davis)
3. 08:29 AM - Re: re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale ()
4. 09:41 AM - Re: Piet (Peter W Johnson)
5. 11:04 AM - Re: Piet (Barry Davis)
6. 02:29 PM - Re: Everett Law/JAX Law (Don Emch)
7. 03:03 PM - Re: Everett Law/JAX Law (Brian Kraut)
8. 04:46 PM - Re: Everett Law/JAX Law (DJ Vegh)
9. 07:05 PM - Re: wheel camber (Skip Gadd)
Message 1
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Skip,
I need to drill holes in the tubes that goes through the center of the compression
springs to pin the tubes to the collars that slide above the springs. The
location of the holes will determine the camber of the wheels. What I'm lookin
for is the starting camber angle to establish with zero weight on the gear
so as to arrive at something like 1 degree empty. Maby I can figure it backwards
(if you use springs) what increase in camber do you think you experience with
a full load?
Thanks for the response,
Tom Bernie
Gloucester, Mass
-----Original Message-----
>From: Skip Gadd <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Sep 18, 2007 10:19 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wheel camber
>
>
>Tom,
>My GN-1 has Cub gear and Cub wheels and tires. It has 1 degree out at the
>top camber. That is at rest no pilot or passenger aboard.
>Skip
>
>
>
>> I'm finishing the landing gear (J3 clone with springs) for my GN-1 --
>does anybody have a suggested amount of camber to use?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Tom Bernie
>> Gloucester Mass
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale |
Guess I am one of the lucky ones as well my wife is building her own
Pietenpol alongside of my Aerial.She is a very talented woman she can
stitch ribs faster and straighter than anyone I know,she can gas weld
airframes do tin work and event isn't afraid to jump in when we have an
engine to overhaul for the business. Too bad she couldn't be Cloned so
those who have the wives that aren't receptive to our passions of flight
and building could be replaced. Anyhow that's my 3 cents worth,wishing
all the group safe flying and soft landings
Message 3
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Subject: | re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale |
Must be nice.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
and Kathryn Davis
Sent: September 19, 2007 11:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale
Guess I am one of the lucky ones as well my wife is building her own
Pietenpol alongside of my Aerial.She is a very talented woman she can
stitch ribs faster and straighter than anyone I know,she can gas weld
airframes do tin work and event isn't afraid to jump in when we have an
engine to overhaul for the business. Too bad she couldn't be Cloned so
those who have the wives that aren't receptive to our passions of flight
and building could be replaced. Anyhow that's my 3 cents worth,wishing
all the group safe flying and soft landings
Message 4
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Jeff,
I build my undercarriage from the UK plans. It has survived quite well with
my landings, although I did buckle it on a ground loop (side ways into an
earth bank). Check out http://www.cpc-world.com for some pictures, Page 5 of
the Build pictures has the construction. The U/C and wing strut fittings are
combined. A steel strap underneath the fuse keeps both fittings together in
a hard landing (I put one on the rear fitting as well).
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wednesday, 19 September 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet
We had a hard landing in the Piet. For those of you following the
drama, I can't lay claim to that particular landing (but my previous
landings caused the tail gear to collapse).
I have attached some photos of the damage. Basically, the front left
gear strut was forced up into the fuselage, putting a twist in the
longeron (cracked it slightly) and pretty much breaking the
surrounding plywood floor and gusset.
It may be that we can splice the longeron and replace the floorboard
plywood. We plan to take this opportunity to rethink the gear and
wing attach points. Maybe we will use a channel piece between the
gear legs like Grega calls for, and maybe even use Grega wing attach
fittings rather than the Piet tang like at DJ Vegh's websites:
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/04-22-02.htm
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/04-30-02.htm
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/05-04-02.htm
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/05-30-02.htm
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/06-05-02.htm
In the UK, they seem to use a gear that is a hybrid of Piet, Grega,
and Piper. Here's the best photo I could find of the UK landing gear:
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=707&fullsize=1
Several of the UK Piet's are built this way, but I couldn't find good
photos. This one even uses the Grega front pieces for landing gear
AND wing attach points:
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=330&fullsize=1
I'm reading AC 43.13 for acceptable methods for spar splicing. I
can't find anything for longeron splicing. My concern with this
guideline is that the Piet longeron takes a pounding with landing
loads right at this spot (obviously), so I don't know if AC 43.13 is
sufficient to this specific need.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Jeff
Message 5
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OK
I wondered what happened to you on Saturday. I guess you are forgiven. Sorry
about the mishap.
Barry
PS: We had 3600 in attendance at Wings & Wheels, and a lot of fun.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Everett Law/JAX Law |
Glenn,
That was great!!!
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135349#135349
Message 7
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Subject: | Everett Law/JAX Law |
How enforced is an interresting question. They passed the law over a year
ago and I have been the only one ever cited on it. So far it is to the tune
of over $12,000 in legal fees and $1,000 in fines. The law has two parts,
one for storage not in an enclosed structure, and one for working on an
aircraft even in your enclosed garage. Obviously, they have only cited me
on the storage part of the law and they know that they would never win in
court if they tried citing anyone for working on one inside because it is
completely unconstitutional and they could never prove it anyway.
See www.jaxairplane.com for more information.
There are a few things you can do to help. After fighting this for a long
time we have finally gotten a council member to sponsor a repeal. It goes
through several steps. The planning department looks at it and makes a
recommendation. Then the Planning Commission has a public hearing and makes
a recommendation to the Land Use and Zoning Board (6 members of the City
Council). They have another hearing and make a recommendation to the Full
City council (19 members). So far the planning department recommended
denial, the planning commission unanimously recommended approval. Yesterday
the LUZ comittiee voted approval. Next step is on next Tuesday when the
council votes on it.
You can help by emailing them and asking them to approve bill 2007-0955
which will repeal the law. Their addresses are here:
http://www.coj.net/City+Council/City+Council+Members.htm
You can also help by donating to EAA Chapter 193 to help with the legal
expenses that we have had so far by clicking here:
http://www.jaxairplane.com/contribute.htm. We have had about $4,000 in
donations so far, but $12,000 in legal fees.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:58 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Everett Law/JAX Law
Some ideas...
a.. How "enforced" is a fairly ridiculous law like that? (akin to
"against the law in Storrs, Connecticut to wear your T-shirt inside out on
Thursdays")
b.. I would look at the consequences and probably press on with the
project if there are no public canings involved. I can just see it on COPS
when they raid the poor guy's house, find the cabane fittings on his work
bench ("A-ha, what are these??") and then kick their way into the secret
room in his basement that the spruce sniffing dogs lead them to, to find
that he's been secretly building a fuselage and then they haul him out in
cuffs making typical COPS self-congratulatory comments.
c.. Who could tell what it is when it's uncovered?
d.. According to my EAA chapter, an Air Camper isn't really a plane
anyway.
Sorry, I'll behave now.
On 9/18/07, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
Brian,
I was reading this today and could hardly believe it. It's really
strange that I checked out the Matronics site this evening and you were on
it! For those of you not familiar with this you need to check it out. In
Jacksonville, FL you can work on your motorcycle, build furniture, build a
dragster, or even a boat, but it is illegal to build an airplane in your
home or garage!! Absolutely absurd!! AAAhhh!!!
http://www.generalaviationnews.com/editorial/articledetail.lasso?-token.
key=14878&-token.src=news&-nothing
Brian, if there is anything I can do to help out your cause, let me
know.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Everett Law/JAX Law |
I just an email to all council members asking to approve the bill. I
also made sure I commented on my opinion of this mess.
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Kraut
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Everett Law/JAX Law
How enforced is an interresting question. They passed the law over a
year ago and I have been the only one ever cited on it. So far it is to
the tune of over $12,000 in legal fees and $1,000 in fines. The law has
two parts, one for storage not in an enclosed structure, and one for
working on an aircraft even in your enclosed garage. Obviously, they
have only cited me on the storage part of the law and they know that
they would never win in court if they tried citing anyone for working on
one inside because it is completely unconstitutional and they could
never prove it anyway.
See www.jaxairplane.com for more information.
There are a few things you can do to help. After fighting this for a
long time we have finally gotten a council member to sponsor a repeal.
It goes through several steps. The planning department looks at it and
makes a recommendation. Then the Planning Commission has a public
hearing and makes a recommendation to the Land Use and Zoning Board (6
members of the City Council). They have another hearing and make a
recommendation to the Full City council (19 members). So far the
planning department recommended denial, the planning commission
unanimously recommended approval. Yesterday the LUZ comittiee voted
approval. Next step is on next Tuesday when the council votes on it.
You can help by emailing them and asking them to approve bill
2007-0955 which will repeal the law. Their addresses are here:
http://www.coj.net/City+Council/City+Council+Members.htm
You can also help by donating to EAA Chapter 193 to help with the
legal expenses that we have had so far by clicking here:
http://www.jaxairplane.com/contribute.htm. We have had about $4,000 in
donations so far, but $12,000 in legal fees.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn
Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:58 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Everett Law/JAX Law
Some ideas...
a.. How "enforced" is a fairly ridiculous law like that? (akin to
"against the law in Storrs, Connecticut to wear your T-shirt inside out
on Thursdays")
b.. I would look at the consequences and probably press on with
the project if there are no public canings involved. I can just see it
on COPS when they raid the poor guy's house, find the cabane fittings on
his work bench ("A-ha, what are these??") and then kick their way into
the secret room in his basement that the spruce sniffing dogs lead them
to, to find that he's been secretly building a fuselage and then they
haul him out in cuffs making typical COPS self-congratulatory comments.
c.. Who could tell what it is when it's uncovered?
d.. According to my EAA chapter, an Air Camper isn't really a
plane anyway.
Sorry, I'll behave now.
On 9/18/07, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
Brian,
I was reading this today and could hardly believe it. It's really
strange that I checked out the Matronics site this evening and you were
on it! For those of you not familiar with this you need to check it
out. In Jacksonville, FL you can work on your motorcycle, build
furniture, build a dragster, or even a boat, but it is illegal to build
an airplane in your home or garage!! Absolutely absurd!! AAAhhh!!!
http://www.generalaviationnews.com/editorial/articledetail.lasso?-token.k
ey=14878&-token.src=news&-nothing
Brian, if there is anything I can do to help out your cause, let
me know.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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Tom,
My GN-1 has bungees. The Piet I am building does has springs. I am planning
to adjust the spring legs so the wheels have 0 degrees camber at gross.
Skip
> Maby I can figure it backwards (if you use springs) what increase in
camber do you think you experience with a full load?
> Thanks for the response,
> Tom Bernie
> Gloucester, Mass
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