---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/19/07: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:04 AM - Re: wheel camber (Tom Bernie) 2. 08:24 AM - re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale (Richard and Kathryn Davis) 3. 08:29 AM - Re: re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale () 4. 09:41 AM - Re: Piet (Peter W Johnson) 5. 11:04 AM - Re: Piet (Barry Davis) 6. 02:29 PM - Re: Everett Law/JAX Law (Don Emch) 7. 03:03 PM - Re: Everett Law/JAX Law (Brian Kraut) 8. 04:46 PM - Re: Everett Law/JAX Law (DJ Vegh) 9. 07:05 PM - Re: wheel camber (Skip Gadd) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:08 AM PST US From: Tom Bernie Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wheel camber Skip, I need to drill holes in the tubes that goes through the center of the compression springs to pin the tubes to the collars that slide above the springs. The location of the holes will determine the camber of the wheels. What I'm lookin for is the starting camber angle to establish with zero weight on the gear so as to arrive at something like 1 degree empty. Maby I can figure it backwards (if you use springs) what increase in camber do you think you experience with a full load? Thanks for the response, Tom Bernie Gloucester, Mass -----Original Message----- >From: Skip Gadd >Sent: Sep 18, 2007 10:19 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wheel camber > > >Tom, >My GN-1 has Cub gear and Cub wheels and tires. It has 1 degree out at the >top camber. That is at rest no pilot or passenger aboard. >Skip > > > >> I'm finishing the landing gear (J3 clone with springs) for my GN-1 -- >does anybody have a suggested amount of camber to use? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Tom Bernie >> Gloucester Mass > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:56 AM PST US From: "Richard and Kathryn Davis" Subject: Pietenpol-List: re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale Guess I am one of the lucky ones as well my wife is building her own Pietenpol alongside of my Aerial.She is a very talented woman she can stitch ribs faster and straighter than anyone I know,she can gas weld airframes do tin work and event isn't afraid to jump in when we have an engine to overhaul for the business. Too bad she couldn't be Cloned so those who have the wives that aren't receptive to our passions of flight and building could be replaced. Anyhow that's my 3 cents worth,wishing all the group safe flying and soft landings ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:14 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale From: Must be nice. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard and Kathryn Davis Sent: September 19, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: re Extra Pietenpol Project for Sale Guess I am one of the lucky ones as well my wife is building her own Pietenpol alongside of my Aerial.She is a very talented woman she can stitch ribs faster and straighter than anyone I know,she can gas weld airframes do tin work and event isn't afraid to jump in when we have an engine to overhaul for the business. Too bad she couldn't be Cloned so those who have the wives that aren't receptive to our passions of flight and building could be replaced. Anyhow that's my 3 cents worth,wishing all the group safe flying and soft landings ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:55 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Jeff, I build my undercarriage from the UK plans. It has survived quite well with my landings, although I did buckle it on a ground loop (side ways into an earth bank). Check out http://www.cpc-world.com for some pictures, Page 5 of the Build pictures has the construction. The U/C and wing strut fittings are combined. A steel strap underneath the fuse keeps both fittings together in a hard landing (I put one on the rear fitting as well). Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Wednesday, 19 September 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet We had a hard landing in the Piet. For those of you following the drama, I can't lay claim to that particular landing (but my previous landings caused the tail gear to collapse). I have attached some photos of the damage. Basically, the front left gear strut was forced up into the fuselage, putting a twist in the longeron (cracked it slightly) and pretty much breaking the surrounding plywood floor and gusset. It may be that we can splice the longeron and replace the floorboard plywood. We plan to take this opportunity to rethink the gear and wing attach points. Maybe we will use a channel piece between the gear legs like Grega calls for, and maybe even use Grega wing attach fittings rather than the Piet tang like at DJ Vegh's websites: http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/04-22-02.htm http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/04-30-02.htm http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/05-04-02.htm http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/05-30-02.htm http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/Log/image-pages/06-05-02.htm In the UK, they seem to use a gear that is a hybrid of Piet, Grega, and Piper. Here's the best photo I could find of the UK landing gear: http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=707&fullsize=1 Several of the UK Piet's are built this way, but I couldn't find good photos. This one even uses the Grega front pieces for landing gear AND wing attach points: http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=330&fullsize=1 I'm reading AC 43.13 for acceptable methods for spar splicing. I can't find anything for longeron splicing. My concern with this guideline is that the Piet longeron takes a pounding with landing loads right at this spot (obviously), so I don't know if AC 43.13 is sufficient to this specific need. Any thoughts appreciated. Jeff ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:08 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet OK I wondered what happened to you on Saturday. I guess you are forgiven. Sorry about the mishap. Barry PS: We had 3600 in attendance at Wings & Wheels, and a lot of fun. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Everett Law/JAX Law From: "Don Emch" Glenn, That was great!!! Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=135349#135349 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:53 PM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Everett Law/JAX Law How enforced is an interresting question. They passed the law over a year ago and I have been the only one ever cited on it. So far it is to the tune of over $12,000 in legal fees and $1,000 in fines. The law has two parts, one for storage not in an enclosed structure, and one for working on an aircraft even in your enclosed garage. Obviously, they have only cited me on the storage part of the law and they know that they would never win in court if they tried citing anyone for working on one inside because it is completely unconstitutional and they could never prove it anyway. See www.jaxairplane.com for more information. There are a few things you can do to help. After fighting this for a long time we have finally gotten a council member to sponsor a repeal. It goes through several steps. The planning department looks at it and makes a recommendation. Then the Planning Commission has a public hearing and makes a recommendation to the Land Use and Zoning Board (6 members of the City Council). They have another hearing and make a recommendation to the Full City council (19 members). So far the planning department recommended denial, the planning commission unanimously recommended approval. Yesterday the LUZ comittiee voted approval. Next step is on next Tuesday when the council votes on it. You can help by emailing them and asking them to approve bill 2007-0955 which will repeal the law. Their addresses are here: http://www.coj.net/City+Council/City+Council+Members.htm You can also help by donating to EAA Chapter 193 to help with the legal expenses that we have had so far by clicking here: http://www.jaxairplane.com/contribute.htm. We have had about $4,000 in donations so far, but $12,000 in legal fees. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:58 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Everett Law/JAX Law Some ideas... a.. How "enforced" is a fairly ridiculous law like that? (akin to "against the law in Storrs, Connecticut to wear your T-shirt inside out on Thursdays") b.. I would look at the consequences and probably press on with the project if there are no public canings involved. I can just see it on COPS when they raid the poor guy's house, find the cabane fittings on his work bench ("A-ha, what are these??") and then kick their way into the secret room in his basement that the spruce sniffing dogs lead them to, to find that he's been secretly building a fuselage and then they haul him out in cuffs making typical COPS self-congratulatory comments. c.. Who could tell what it is when it's uncovered? d.. According to my EAA chapter, an Air Camper isn't really a plane anyway. Sorry, I'll behave now. On 9/18/07, Don Emch wrote: Brian, I was reading this today and could hardly believe it. It's really strange that I checked out the Matronics site this evening and you were on it! For those of you not familiar with this you need to check it out. In Jacksonville, FL you can work on your motorcycle, build furniture, build a dragster, or even a boat, but it is illegal to build an airplane in your home or garage!! Absolutely absurd!! AAAhhh!!! http://www.generalaviationnews.com/editorial/articledetail.lasso?-token. key=14878&-token.src=news&-nothing Brian, if there is anything I can do to help out your cause, let me know. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:19 PM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Everett Law/JAX Law I just an email to all council members asking to approve the bill. I also made sure I commented on my opinion of this mess. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Everett Law/JAX Law How enforced is an interresting question. They passed the law over a year ago and I have been the only one ever cited on it. So far it is to the tune of over $12,000 in legal fees and $1,000 in fines. The law has two parts, one for storage not in an enclosed structure, and one for working on an aircraft even in your enclosed garage. Obviously, they have only cited me on the storage part of the law and they know that they would never win in court if they tried citing anyone for working on one inside because it is completely unconstitutional and they could never prove it anyway. See www.jaxairplane.com for more information. There are a few things you can do to help. After fighting this for a long time we have finally gotten a council member to sponsor a repeal. It goes through several steps. The planning department looks at it and makes a recommendation. Then the Planning Commission has a public hearing and makes a recommendation to the Land Use and Zoning Board (6 members of the City Council). They have another hearing and make a recommendation to the Full City council (19 members). So far the planning department recommended denial, the planning commission unanimously recommended approval. Yesterday the LUZ comittiee voted approval. Next step is on next Tuesday when the council votes on it. You can help by emailing them and asking them to approve bill 2007-0955 which will repeal the law. Their addresses are here: http://www.coj.net/City+Council/City+Council+Members.htm You can also help by donating to EAA Chapter 193 to help with the legal expenses that we have had so far by clicking here: http://www.jaxairplane.com/contribute.htm. We have had about $4,000 in donations so far, but $12,000 in legal fees. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:58 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Everett Law/JAX Law Some ideas... a.. How "enforced" is a fairly ridiculous law like that? (akin to "against the law in Storrs, Connecticut to wear your T-shirt inside out on Thursdays") b.. I would look at the consequences and probably press on with the project if there are no public canings involved. I can just see it on COPS when they raid the poor guy's house, find the cabane fittings on his work bench ("A-ha, what are these??") and then kick their way into the secret room in his basement that the spruce sniffing dogs lead them to, to find that he's been secretly building a fuselage and then they haul him out in cuffs making typical COPS self-congratulatory comments. c.. Who could tell what it is when it's uncovered? d.. According to my EAA chapter, an Air Camper isn't really a plane anyway. Sorry, I'll behave now. On 9/18/07, Don Emch wrote: > Brian, I was reading this today and could hardly believe it. It's really strange that I checked out the Matronics site this evening and you were on it! For those of you not familiar with this you need to check it out. In Jacksonville, FL you can work on your motorcycle, build furniture, build a dragster, or even a boat, but it is illegal to build an airplane in your home or garage!! Absolutely absurd!! AAAhhh!!! http://www.generalaviationnews.com/editorial/articledetail.lasso?-token.k ey=14878&-token.src=news&-nothing Brian, if there is anything I can do to help out your cause, let me know. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:17 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wheel camber Tom, My GN-1 has bungees. The Piet I am building does has springs. I am planning to adjust the spring legs so the wheels have 0 degrees camber at gross. Skip > Maby I can figure it backwards (if you use springs) what increase in camber do you think you experience with a full load? > Thanks for the response, > Tom Bernie > Gloucester, Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.