Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:21 AM - Tundra tires (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
2. 03:54 AM - Re: Tundra tires ()
3. 06:18 AM - Fall flying in the Piet (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 06:26 AM - homebuilt skis for the Piet (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 10:05 AM - Re: (Gordon Bowen)
6. 10:07 AM - Re: homebuilt skis for the Piet do not archive ()
7. 10:46 AM - Ash supply (Ryan Michals)
8. 11:04 AM - Re: Ash supply (Jeff Boatright)
9. 12:04 PM - Re: Ash supply (HelsperSew@aol.com)
10. 12:06 PM - Re: Ash supply (HVandervoo@aol.com)
11. 12:24 PM - Re: Ash supply (jimboyer@hughes.net)
12. 12:30 PM - Re: Ash supply (jimboyer@hughes.net)
13. 01:11 PM - center section wing tank (Brian Kraut)
14. 01:45 PM - Re: center section wing tank (Phillips, Jack)
15. 02:39 PM - Re: center section wing tank (Brian Kraut)
16. 02:39 PM - Re: Ash supply (Catdesigns)
17. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Ash supply (Jeff Boatright)
18. 04:26 PM - Re: Ash supply (Don Emch)
19. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Ash supply (Catdesigns)
20. 06:39 PM - Re: (Dick Navratil)
21. 11:01 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
22. 11:05 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Harvey wrote: let us know how they (tundra tires) work out when you fly
it. Harvey, don't hold your breath. I am in my 9th year building and
just finished wasting a whole summer in a relationship that didn't work
out. That's a whole warm weather building season that I'll never get
back. Leon s. in Ks. with a cold winter just ahead.
Message 2
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Well as long as there's no chalk mark around ya it means yer still alive
and if you can take nourishment then you can complete that aircraft.Keep
at her and she won't fail you like some relationship,that I can
guarantee ya.Get at her next season and enjoy.We look forward to hearing
about your first flight.The Piet that I fly was started in 1977 and went
through three owners,myself included.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leon
Stefan
Sent: October 1, 2007 6:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tundra tires
Harvey wrote: let us know how they (tundra tires) work out when you fly
it. Harvey, don't hold your breath. I am in my 9th year building and
just finished wasting a whole summer in a relationship that didn't work
out. That's a whole warm weather building season that I'll never get
back. Leon s. in Ks. with a cold winter just ahead.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fall flying in the Piet |
One thing about living in south Texas is that winter is usually only a few
days long ;o) As a matter of fact, some of you will remember that I ferried
41CC back home in January and it was great. Of course a week later we had
one of the hardest ice storms that I've ever experienced here (power was out
in our neighborhood for several days), but soon after that it was flyable
again. And I can really relate to the comments about being able to
appreciate the countryside much better from a low, slow, and open cockpit...
the smell of brush being burned, even barbeques from groups picnicking down
below. And the farms, of course.
Some very good flying is still coming up for me after the time changes this
month. With an hour more daylight in the morning I can go to the airport
before work and get in a flight in the still morning air every morning if I
want to. Rarely is the deck so low that I can't at least fly the pattern.
The smooth morning air will be the perfect time to do some careful analysis
of the stall speed of this airplane, something I've wanted to get documented
before experimenting with the Landshorter vortex generators. I have a set
for the wings and a set for the underside of the horizontal stabilizer and
will test with one and then both. And I may also try to put gap seals on
the elevator/horizontal stabilizer gap but probably won't fool with the
rudder gap. See, it's about economics: my elevator and horizontal
stabilizer are both painted yellow and I have plenty of yellow paint to do
the gap seals with, but the rudder is several colors. L-A-Z-Y....
Oscar Zuniga
NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Gear up for Halo 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer.
http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1
Message 4
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| Subject: | homebuilt skis for the Piet |
Don (and others interested in skis)-
(Thanks to Michael Silvius for pointing me to this site), there is some
interesting information and construction details for homebuilt snow skis on
this page:
http://planebuilder.topcities.com/skis.html
These are for an ultralight and use children's snowboards, but you can use
full-size snowboards instead, depending on the type of snow you anticipate
operating off of. Deeper, powderier snow will require full size snowboards.
When we lived in Oregon I used to roam the pawn shops from time to time and
there was always a good variety of older skis and snowboards available for
cheap. Teenagers don't like to be caught in public using last year's
equipment ;o) Just find two boards the same size and configuration and
you're ready to start experimenting.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
Message 5
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Dick,
Didn't you a problems getting the spar varnish to stick to the epoxy
saturated wood?
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
I built mine that way and compared notes with several others at the
time. Mine was about 2-3 lbs heavier. I covered my fuse with a 2 oz.
layer of fiberglass cloth and used West System Epoxy, then applied Spar
varnish over that. As I recall bare fuselage, fully finished was about
65 lbs.
I would consider going with the wood thikness as on plans and where
you are adding wood to the rear, use 1/16" plywood. Keep th weight donw
in the rear.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Dumay
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Good day Gentleman & Ladies
My build partner and I, are about to assemble the fuselage on our
Air Camper.
Are there any, significant weight and build differences in using an
all plywood fuselage stained, instead of cloth, paint etc.?
Could someone with prior build experience, please elaborate on the
pros or cons.
Is there some data available on the finished weight of a plywood
fuselage?
Thank you
Captain Marcus
Chatham. On
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: homebuilt skis for the Piet do not archive |
In the Great metropolis of Canadian, Texas there was an Air Camper that was built
by a rancher in order to check his cattle during snow storms. I believe it
was built in the 30's but may be wrong. He never put it on wheels, just skis.
Then he taught himself to fly in it. Later he found out that he could take off
and land on dry (and it is often dry in the Texas Panhandle) prairie grass.
It was never on wheels.
I may be mistaken but I think it is in the Museum there in town.
So, all you need are skis.
Blue Skies, Steve Dortch
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: homebuilt skis for the Piet
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> Don (and others interested in skis)-
>
> (Thanks to Michael Silvius for pointing me to this site), there is
> some
> interesting information and construction details for homebuilt
> snow skis on
> this page:
>
> http://planebuilder.topcities.com/skis.html
>
> These are for an ultralight and use children's snowboards, but you
> can use
> full-size snowboards instead, depending on the type of snow you
> anticipate
> operating off of. Deeper, powderier snow will require full size
> snowboards.
> When we lived in Oregon I used to roam the pawn shops from time to
> time and
> there was always a good variety of older skis and snowboards
> available for
> cheap. Teenagers don't like to be caught in public using last
> year's
> equipment ;o) Just find two boards the same size and
> configuration and
> you're ready to start experimenting.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great
> prizes!
> http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Has anyone had trouble finding white ash? They tell me the beetles are destroying
it all. Are there any alternatives?
Ryan Michals
NXxxxCC
Clover Clipper
*This message sent from a hand-held wireless device.
Message 8
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I am in the market for some, too.
At 1:45 PM -0400 10/1/07, Ryan Michals wrote:
>
> Has anyone had trouble finding white ash? They tell me the beetles
>are destroying it all. Are there any alternatives?
>
>Ryan Michals
>NXxxxCC
>Clover Clipper
>
>*This message sent from a hand-held wireless device.
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
Message 9
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Guys,
I bought white ash baseball bat blanks from Woodcraft.com, item # 125850.
3" x 3" x 40". $24.95 ea.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 10
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Try Rockler:
_http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2475_
(http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2475)
Hans
Message 11
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Try your local Woodcraft woodworking store. My local store is where I
got my ash. They have many different kinds of hardwood, primarily for
woodworkers but that is what Piet builders are as well.
Jim
Message 12
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Woodcraft usually has ash planks that are 1" rough cut or 3/4" surfaced which could
be laminated as well as the bat blanks. My local store has both.
Jim
Message 13
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| Subject: | center section wing tank |
I wanted to get a good sized tank in my wing center section since the
fuselage is already built and there is no tank in it. by the shape of
the wing (GN-1) I figured that I can get about .62 gallons per linear
inch of tank between the spars. That means that to get a 15 gallon tank
that it needs to be about 24" wide which is as wide as I can get it.
The problem is that means only one rib on each side of the tank instead
of the normal four ribs in the center section that the GN-1 plans show.
I was thinking that I would run some 1/4" square stringers on the bottom
sheet of plywood to stiffen it up so that it will still hold the correct
undercambered shape. I will also put steel angle brackets mounted to
the front and aft spar to support the weight of the tank. On the top I
will do the plywood just in front of the forward spar and in back of the
rear spar with a big removable sheet aluminum cover so I can get the
tank out if I need to (or maybe just do all the plywood for now and I
can cut it out and make the aluminum cover later if the tank ever needs
to come out).
Has anyone else done this before? Anyone see any problems with this?
The center section will not be as strong as with the four evenly spaced
ribs, but I don't know that is really a problem since each corner is
braced by the jury struts and attached to the outer wing panels.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | center section wing tank |
Brian, I made my centersection 6" wider than plans (Pietenpol, not
Grega) to get a 15 gallon tank in the centersection. I covered the
bottom of the centersection with 1/4" plywood to hold the undercamber.
I made two ribs out of aluminum channel to provide the airfoil shape on
top of the tank, and supported the tank with 1" stainless steel straps
hanging from the top of the spars. Worked well
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section wing tank
I wanted to get a good sized tank in my wing center section since the
fuselage is already built and there is no tank in it. by the shape of
the wing (GN-1) I figured that I can get about .62 gallons per linear
inch of tank between the spars. That means that to get a 15 gallon tank
that it needs to be about 24" wide which is as wide as I can get it.
The problem is that means only one rib on each side of the tank instead
of the normal four ribs in the center section that the GN-1 plans show.
I was thinking that I would run some 1/4" square stringers on the bottom
sheet of plywood to stiffen it up so that it will still hold the correct
undercambered shape. I will also put steel angle brackets mounted to
the front and aft spar to support the weight of the tank. On the top I
will do the plywood just in front of the forward spar and in back of the
rear spar with a big removable sheet aluminum cover so I can get the
tank out if I need to (or maybe just do all the plywood for now and I
can cut it out and make the aluminum cover later if the tank ever needs
to come out).
Has anyone else done this before? Anyone see any problems with this?
The center section will not be as strong as with the four evenly spaced
ribs, but I don't know that is really a problem since each corner is
braced by the jury struts and attached to the outer wing panels.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 15
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| Subject: | center section wing tank |
I really like the idea of the channel ribs. I have a shrinker and stretcher
so I can bend up some channel and get the perfect camber on the top sheet.
I am thinking that I can just rivet the top aluminum skin to the channels.
I was also thinking of the straps to hold the tank. I thought of the steel
banding material used to hold stuff to pallets and also of nylon web type
material.
I guess that you could also use the channel ribs on the bottom skin and
epoxy it to the thin plywood, but I still think that stringers running span
wise would also work good. Since the tank would be flat on the bottom you
would use 1/4" stringers near the center and much taller ones near the spars
where there is not so much camber. I have no intentions of supporting the
tank at all with them.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips,
Jack
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:45 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: center section wing tank
Brian, I made my centersection 6" wider than plans (Pietenpol, not Grega)
to get a 15 gallon tank in the centersection. I covered the bottom of the
centersection with 1/4" plywood to hold the undercamber. I made two ribs
out of aluminum channel to provide the airfoil shape on top of the tank, and
supported the tank with 1" stainless steel straps hanging from the top of
the spars. Worked well
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:10 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section wing tank
I wanted to get a good sized tank in my wing center section since the
fuselage is already built and there is no tank in it. by the shape of the
wing (GN-1) I figured that I can get about .62 gallons per linear inch of
tank between the spars. That means that to get a 15 gallon tank that it
needs to be about 24" wide which is as wide as I can get it.
The problem is that means only one rib on each side of the tank instead of
the normal four ribs in the center section that the GN-1 plans show. I was
thinking that I would run some 1/4" square stringers on the bottom sheet of
plywood to stiffen it up so that it will still hold the correct
undercambered shape. I will also put steel angle brackets mounted to the
front and aft spar to support the weight of the tank. On the top I will do
the plywood just in front of the forward spar and in back of the rear spar
with a big removable sheet aluminum cover so I can get the tank out if I
need to (or maybe just do all the plywood for now and I can cut it out and
make the aluminum cover later if the tank ever needs to come out).
Has anyone else done this before? Anyone see any problems with this? The
center section will not be as strong as with the four evenly spaced ribs,
but I don't know that is really a problem since each corner is braced by the
jury struts and attached to the outer wing panels.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
Message 16
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I have attached a portion of Table 4-3b from the Forest Products Laboratorys Wood
Handbook which list some properties for the different Ash species.
This is a good resource for wood information and FREE to download so the price
is right. It can be found at:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm
I believe the Ash pieces in the floor are loaded in tension and compression from
the wing struts and shear (perpendicular to the grain) from the landing gear.
The big question is what is the important property to look at. Based on the
pictures of Jeffs failed Ash cross brace, which appears to have failed in shear
perpendicular to the grain, I think the Blue Ash looks like a good substitute.
That said, probably the biggest contributor to the failure was the tapering
of the ash piece from 1-inch to 3/4-inch causing a stress point.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137499#137499
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ash_148.jpg
Message 17
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Chris,
Thanks for the data and your thoughts. I agree -
the taper was the culprit (couldn't possibly be
the landing technique! :) ).
The crack appears to have occurred due to the
landing gear/wing strut fitting rotating around
the longeron, with it's horizontal plate pushing
up into the bottom of the fuselage. The edge of
the plate neatly aligns with the taper when the
fitting rotates.
However, I believe that the plans call for that
taper. Regardless, right now we're contemplating
either not tapering, which requires moving the
fitting bolts and associated holes upwards on the
side of the fuselage, further necessitating
changes, or adding a steel channel across the
underside, as per Grega plans. Or both.
The Grega design, IMO, is better on this point.
(Ducks, runs for exit...)
Jeff
PS: In case you're wondering, the fitting seems
to be completely undamaged, which I find amazing.
>...
>I believe the Ash pieces in the floor are loaded
>in tension and compression from the wing struts
>and shear (perpendicular to the grain) from the
>landing gear. The big question is what is the
>important property to look at. Based on the
>pictures of Jeff*s failed Ash cross brace,
>which appears to have failed in shear
>perpendicular to the grain, I think the Blue Ash
>looks like a good substitute. That said,
>probably the biggest contributor to the failure
>was the tapering of the ash piece from 1-inch to
>3/4-inch causing a stress point.
>
>Chris
>
>--------
>Chris Tracy
>WestCoastPiet.com
Message 18
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I got mine locally from this sawmill.
http://www.bairdbros.com/
They specialize in mouldings, but they also sell just the wood. They let you pick
or they will ship to you. They have various thicknesses and high quality.
If someone needed me to pick some out for them I could.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137514#137514
Message 19
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Jeff,
Yes the taper is on the plans and also on my plane. After seeing your
broken cross brace I am wondering if I should just make it 3/4-inch the
whole way across.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ash supply
>
> Chris,
>
> Thanks for the data and your thoughts. I agree - the taper was the culprit
> (couldn't possibly be the landing technique! :) ).
>
> The crack appears to have occurred due to the landing gear/wing strut
> fitting rotating around the longeron, with it's horizontal plate pushing
> up into the bottom of the fuselage. The edge of the plate neatly aligns
> with the taper when the fitting rotates.
>
> However, I believe that the plans call for that taper. Regardless, right
> now we're contemplating either not tapering, which requires moving the
> fitting bolts and associated holes upwards on the side of the fuselage,
> further necessitating changes, or adding a steel channel across the
> underside, as per Grega plans. Or both.
>
> The Grega design, IMO, is better on this point.
>
> (Ducks, runs for exit...)
>
> Jeff
>
> PS: In case you're wondering, the fitting seems to be completely
> undamaged, which I find amazing.
>
>
>>...
>>I believe the Ash pieces in the floor are loaded in tension and
>>compression from the wing struts and shear (perpendicular to the grain)
>>from the landing gear. The big question is what is the important property
>>to look at. Based on the pictures of Jeff*Ts failed Ash cross brace,
>>which appears to have failed in shear perpendicular to the grain, I think
>>the Blue Ash looks like a good substitute. That said, probably the
>>biggest contributor to the failure was the tapering of the ash piece from
>>1-inch to 3/4-inch causing a stress point.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>--------
>>Chris Tracy
>>WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
>
Message 20
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No problems. I had a good long chat with the tech rep from West system.
Secrect is to let the West epoxy fully cure for 10 days and sand with
220 grit paper lightly by hand, then apply varnish.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Dick,
Didn't you a problems getting the spar varnish to stick to the epoxy
saturated wood?
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
I built mine that way and compared notes with several others at the
time. Mine was about 2-3 lbs heavier. I covered my fuse with a 2 oz.
layer of fiberglass cloth and used West System Epoxy, then applied Spar
varnish over that. As I recall bare fuselage, fully finished was about
65 lbs.
I would consider going with the wood thikness as on plans and where
you are adding wood to the rear, use 1/16" plywood. Keep th weight donw
in the rear.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Dumay
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Good day Gentleman & Ladies
My build partner and I, are about to assemble the fuselage on our
Air Camper.
Are there any, significant weight and build differences in using
an all plywood fuselage stained, instead of cloth, paint etc.?
Could someone with prior build experience, please elaborate on the
pros or cons.
Is there some data available on the finished weight of a plywood
fuselage?
Thank you
Captain Marcus
Chatham. On
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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