Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Phillips, Jack)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (walt evans)
3. 07:29 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Rick Holland)
4. 07:37 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Phillips, Jack)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Arden Adamson)
6. 08:04 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (HelsperSew@aol.com)
7. 08:20 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Arden Adamson)
8. 09:46 AM - Aileron Hinges (Mcmaster option) (Scott Schreiber)
9. 10:00 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Mcmaster option) (HelsperSew@aol.com)
10. 10:12 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Brian Kraut)
11. 10:22 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (Mcmaster option) (Brian Kraut)
12. 10:33 AM - Aileron Hinge Wicks (Scott Schreiber)
13. 10:43 AM - tailwheel cables (Oscar Zuniga)
14. 11:52 AM - Re: tailwheel cables (Rick Holland)
15. 11:59 AM - Re: Varnishing Pietenpol airframe (Rick Holland)
16. 02:19 PM - varnishing (Dick Navratil)
17. 04:10 PM - Re: Varnishing Pietenpol airframe (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
18. 04:10 PM - Re: varnishing (Steve Glass)
19. 07:49 PM - Re: varnishing (Dick Navratil)
20. 08:43 PM - Re: tailwheel cables (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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Scott, the "barn door hinges" will work, and many Piets are flying with
them. Full span piano hinges have the advantage of automatically
providing a gap seal, and are quite possibly lighter.
As for the control horns, the design shown in the plans is lighter and
stronger than horns cut from .090" steel. They are very easy to make,
and (IMHO) look better than flat pieces of steel. More streamlined,
too. You'd hate to add all the drag of a steel plate control horn to a
slippery design like a Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
Trying to follow the plans, I found some 3 inch strap hinges. They all
seem to come from the same company regardless of packaging. They are OK
in that a AN3 clevis will fit in them and they are the right size.
However they are pre-drilled and have a hole right accros the bend line.
Opinions locally seem to be that the hole is not a problem. What has
been the practice? And lastly for aileron control horns, I have seen
allot of photos of single piece horns and that is allot more appealing
to me than the hollow ones. Is .090 a decent thickness of steel for
these, or is something thicker in order.
-Scott Schreiber
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
Scott,
The horns are amazingly easy to make, and strong as hell.
Over 100 hours, and nothing flew off yet
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
Trying to follow the plans, I found some 3 inch strap hinges. They all
seem to come from the same company regardless of packaging. They are OK
in that a AN3 clevis will fit in them and they are the right size.
However they are pre-drilled and have a hole right accros the bend line.
Opinions locally seem to be that the hole is not a problem. What has
been the practice? And lastly for aileron control horns, I have seen
allot of photos of single piece horns and that is allot more appealing
to me than the hollow ones. Is .090 a decent thickness of steel for
these, or is something thicker in order.
-Scott Schreiber
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
Aluminum piano hinge will be lighter Scott and not expensive if you don't
use the extruded stuff like I did (many on this group believe the extruded
is overkill). Mine is 1" on each side held on with blind nuts. Wouldn't
recommend using smaller, notice how close the nuts ended up to the beveled
edge of the aileron spar in the pic.
Rick
On 10/8/07, walt evans <waltdak@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Scott,
> The horns are amazingly easy to make, and strong as hell.
> Over 100 hours, and nothing flew off yet
> Walt Evans
> NX140DL
> "No one ever learned anything by talking"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Scott Schreiber <got22b@subarubrat.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 06, 2007 11:35 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
>
> Trying to follow the plans, I found some 3 inch strap hinges. They all
> seem to come from the same company regardless of packaging. They are OK in
> that a AN3 clevis will fit in them and they are the right size. However they
> are pre-drilled and have a hole right accros the bend line. Opinions locally
> seem to be that the hole is not a problem. What has been the practice? And
> lastly for aileron control horns, I have seen allot of photos of single
> piece horns and that is allot more appealing to me than the hollow ones. Is
> .090 a decent thickness of steel for these, or is something thicker in
> order.
>
> -Scott Schreiber
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 4
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Rick, I also used the extruded piano hinge and would use the much less
expensive rolled version if I were to do it over again. If the rolled
hinges are strong enough for ailerons on Cherokees and the trim tabs on
200 mph RV's, they should be able to withstand the blistering speeds of
a Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
Aluminum piano hinge will be lighter Scott and not expensive if you
don't use the extruded stuff like I did (many on this group believe the
extruded is overkill). Mine is 1" on each side held on with blind nuts.
Wouldn't recommend using smaller, notice how close the nuts ended up to
the beveled edge of the aileron spar in the pic.
Rick
On 10/8/07, walt evans <waltdak@verizon.net> wrote:
Scott,
The horns are amazingly easy to make, and strong as hell.
Over 100 hours, and nothing flew off yet
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber <mailto:got22b@subarubrat.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
Trying to follow the plans, I found some 3 inch strap
hinges. They all seem to come from the same company regardless of
packaging. They are OK in that a AN3 clevis will fit in them and they
are the right size. However they are pre-drilled and have a hole right
accros the bend line. Opinions locally seem to be that the hole is not a
problem. What has been the practice? And lastly for aileron control
horns, I have seen allot of photos of single piece horns and that is
allot more appealing to me than the hollow ones. Is .090 a decent
thickness of steel for these, or is something thicker in order.
-Scott Schreiber
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
Message 5
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Rick,
Where did you find the 1" on each side piano hinge? The inexpensive
ones I've seen so far are =BE" only.
Arden
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
Aluminum piano hinge will be lighter Scott and not expensive if you
don't use the extruded stuff like I did (many on this group believe the
extruded is overkill). Mine is 1" on each side held on with blind nuts.
Wouldn't recommend using smaller, notice how close the nuts ended up to
the beveled edge of the aileron spar in the pic.
Rick
On 10/8/07, walt evans <waltdak@verizon.net> wrote:
Scott,
The horns are amazingly easy to make, and strong as hell.
Over 100 hours, and nothing flew off yet
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber <mailto:got22b@subarubrat.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
Trying to follow the plans, I found some 3 inch strap hinges. They all
seem to come from the same company regardless of packaging. They are OK
in that a AN3 clevis will fit in them and they are the right size.
However they are pre-drilled and have a hole right accros the bend line.
Opinions locally seem to be that the hole is not a problem. What has
been the practice? And lastly for aileron control horns, I have seen
allot of photos of single piece horns and that is allot more appealing
to me than the hollow ones. Is .090 a decent thickness of steel for
these, or is something thicker in order.
-Scott Schreiber
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com"> <http://forums.matronics.com>
http://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
Arden,
Look in Mcmaster.com. They have everything in hinges. This is where I got
mine (aluminum extruded).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 7
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Thanks Dan. That's just what I needed.
Arden
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
Arden,
Look in Mcmaster.com. They have everything in hinges. This is where I
got mine (aluminum extruded).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
the
===========
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aileron Hinges (Mcmaster option) |
1581A18
Aluminum Piano Hinge Without Holes Alloy 5052, .040" Thick, 2"
Open Width, 6' Length
In stock
Quantity Each
1-9 Each $6.00
I found those above, but I they don't say if that is a single leaf, a
complete hinge with pin. Nobody has mentioned thickness, this is the
widest one I saw listed so probably it is the right thickness. Anyone
familiar with this one?
-Scott
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges (Mcmaster option) |
Scott,
There is a diagram in the Mcmaster catalog to go along with this. Try
looking again. It looks like a complete hinge to me.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 10
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Aircraft Spruce sells the MS20257P5 hinge for $13.70 for 6' of the rolled
hinge. They have the MS20001P6 extruded hinge for $72.00 for 6'. McMaster
has the mil spec extruded hinges (surprised me), but they are much more
expensive than the Spruce price. They also have rolled hinges cheap, but I
would rather spend a few extra bucks for the mil spec rolled ones from
Spruce instead of the unknown ones from McMaster.
As far as rolled vs extruded, I would certainly go with rolled on the Piet.
Mark Langford of KR-2S fame did a test on the rolled hinge and a 4" piece
was able to support 150 pounds. See his test about a quarter of the way
down at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/misc.html.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:03 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
Arden,
Look in Mcmaster.com. They have everything in hinges. This is where I got
mine (aluminum extruded).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Aileron Hinges (Mcmaster option) |
.051" is the thickness of the ones in the Spruce catalog.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 12:45 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges (Mcmaster option)
1581A18
Aluminum Piano Hinge Without Holes Alloy 5052, .040" Thick, 2" Open
Width, 6' Length
In stock
Quantity Each
1-9 Each $6.00
I found those above, but I they don't say if that is a single leaf, a
complete hinge with pin. Nobody has mentioned thickness, this is the widest
one I saw listed so probably it is the right thickness. Anyone familiar with
this one?
-Scott
Message 12
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| Subject: | Aileron Hinge Wicks |
Found MS20257-P5 at wicks, Anodized finished 5050-H34 aluminum hinge,
consisting of two half hinges which mate and are held together by a .090
diameter hinge pin with hinge spacing =BD". The 2" open width hinge
thickness is .050. Hinge pin (.090) is included. Additional pins
available MS20253-. Hinge can be cut to save shipping cost. Hinge is
sold by the foot. Enter quantity required in foot increments. Full
length of 6ft is discounted.
Message 13
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| Subject: | tailwheel cables |
Being the inquisitive type, I just had to go back and measure the tailwheel
and rudder cable geometry on NX41CC after that last round of discussion.
41CC has separate cables for the tailwheel and rudder, both of them anchor
at the same point on the rudder bar. Back at the tail the rudder horn atta
ch points are 10-1/4" apart and the tailwheel horn attach points are 8" apa
rt, which does indeed result in different amounts of deflection of each of
them with the same amount of deflection of the rudder bar. Full deflection
results in about 2-1/2" fore-and-aft travel of the rudder horn attach poin
t.
Running the geometry on this in AutoCAD, for the same deflection of the rud
der bar I find that the tailwheel will deflect just a bit over 8 degrees *m
ore* than the rudder will, which several of you have made note of. On gras
s, I doubt that it would ever be noticed. On pavement, it might but I have
n't even thought of it making any noticeable difference. Just one more thi
ng to go out and experiment with, because it is very easy for me to change
the attach points on the tailwheel horn outboard to just about match the ru
dder attach points... Corky made the horns extra long for adjustment purpos
es.
I was at the hangar yesterday to return a trailer that I had borrowed and c
ouldn't let poor 41CC just sit there and watch, so I went up and did a coup
le of circuits. I operated off the grass on all but the last landing and I
'm finding out that grass is my friend (and my landings' friend). Just lik
e there is nothing that a good coat of paint won't cover, there is practica
lly no landing that a good cushion of grass won't take care of. So now 41C
C is proudly wearing grass on the tailwheel parts and around the brakes on
the mains.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite a
t http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: tailwheel cables |
Oscar
>From what I understand Chuck and others modified their cable attach points
on the rudder bar to provide less tailwheel travel not more as yours is
rigged now. I guess it may not matter if you only fly off grass.
Rick
On 10/8/07, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Being the inquisitive type, I just had to go back and measure the
> tailwheel and rudder cable geometry on NX41CC after that last round of
> discussion. 41CC has separate cables for the tailwheel and rudder, both of
> them anchor at the same point on the rudder bar. Back at the tail the
> rudder horn attach points are 10-1/4" apart and the tailwheel horn attach
> points are 8" apart, which does indeed result in different amounts of
> deflection of each of them with the same amount of deflection of the rudder
> bar. Full deflection results in about 2-1/2" fore-and-aft travel of the
> rudder horn attach point.
>
> Running the geometry on this in AutoCAD, for the same deflection of the
> rudder bar I find that the tailwheel will deflect just a bit over 8 degrees
> *more* than the rudder will, which several of you have made note of. On
> grass, I doubt that it would ever be noticed. On pavement, it might but I
> haven't even thought of it making any noticeable difference. Just one more
> thing to go out and experiment with, because it is very easy for me to
> change the attach points on the tailwheel horn outboard to just about match
> the rudder attach points... Corky made the horns extra long for adjustment
> purposes.
>
> I was at the hangar yesterday to return a trailer that I had borrowed and
> couldn't let poor 41CC just sit there and watch, so I went up and did a
> couple of circuits. I operated off the grass on all but the last landing
> and I'm finding out that grass is my friend (and my landings' friend). Just
> like there is nothing that a good coat of paint won't cover, there is
> practically no landing that a good cushion of grass won't take care of. So
> now 41CC is proudly wearing grass on the tailwheel parts and around the
> brakes on the mains.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Varnishing Pietenpol airframe |
That's why varnishing my fuselage seemed to have taken so long, I had a
brush in one hand and the varnish can in the other. Next time I will put a
bush in one hand and the beer in the other (and make my kid hold the varnish
can).
Rick
On 10/7/07, Dick Navratil <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
>
> horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> If you are very lazy, like me, you can buy cans of spar varnish at most
> any
> hardware store and spray with a can of beer in the other hand.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jimboyer@hughes.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:03 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing Pietenpol airframe
>
>
> > <jimboyer@hughes.net>
> >
> > Just getting ready to varnish the fuselage and wondering how in the
> > world I am going to get at all the surfaces of the turtledeck stringers
> > and all the cross braces without covering myself with varnish.
> > How did all of you who are flying do it?
> > Thanks, Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 16
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Just to clarify my post, spar varnish is available in spray cans at the
hardware store.
I was multi tasking on the computer last night, no, I didn't varnish it.
Dick N
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Varnishing Pietenpol airframe |
Rick,
Remember....... the fair labor laws for children! Besides, if he get into a union
and demands more $$ this varnishing thing could cost you Big $$. I say beer
in one hand, brush in the other and Fido with a platform hat and 1 can of varnish
strapped tight and several doggie treats....priceless!
Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
That's why varnishing my fuselage seemed to have taken so long, I had a brush
in one hand and the varnish can in the other. Next time I will put a bush in
one hand and the beer in the other (and make my kid hold the varnish can).
Rick
If you are very lazy, like me, you can buy cans of spar varnish at most any
hardware store and spray with a can of beer in the other hand.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: <jimboyer@hughes.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing Pietenpol airframe
> <jimboyer@hughes.net>
>
> Just getting ready to varnish the fuselage and wondering how in the
> world I am going to get at all the surfaces of the turtledeck stringers
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
---------------------------------
Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and
more!
Message 18
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hi
Just a cheap......... errrr cost effective guy from Maine. Checked HD in
Boise a week ago and varnish in a spray can was almost $9.00 USD per can.
Would think it will take a lot of cans to do the wings. I know spraying
with an "inexpensive " spray gun and a compressor would be a much more
satisfying way foir me to do the job.
Steve in Maine
>From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:17:43 -0500
>
>Just to clarify my post, spar varnish is available in spray cans at the
>hardware store.
>I was multi tasking on the computer last night, no, I didn't varnish it.
>Dick N
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop by
today!
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline
Message 19
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Steve
I'm with you on cost cutting, but for those very hard to get at places, it
will save lots of time. I'll double check but I don't think I paid more
than $5 per can and only used a couple of cans on those bad places.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:10 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>
> hi
>
> Just a cheap......... errrr cost effective guy from Maine. Checked HD in
> Boise a week ago and varnish in a spray can was almost $9.00 USD per can.
> Would think it will take a lot of cans to do the wings. I know spraying
> with an "inexpensive " spray gun and a compressor would be a much more
> satisfying way foir me to do the job.
>
> Steve in Maine
>
>
>>From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
>>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:17:43 -0500
>>
>>Just to clarify my post, spar varnish is available in spray cans at the
>>hardware store.
>>I was multi tasking on the computer last night, no, I didn't varnish it.
>>Dick N
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop
> by today!
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>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: tailwheel cables |
In a message dated 10/8/2007 1:53:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
at7000ft@gmail.com writes:
Oscar
>From what I understand Chuck and others modified their cable attach points on
the rudder bar to provide less tailwheel travel not more as yours is rigged
now. I guess it may not matter if you only fly off grass.
Rick
That's right, Rick. One of the many things I learned building and flying
Radio Controlled planes, was that you don't need nearly as much deflection on the
tail wheel, as you do for the rudder. However, R. C. planes may be rigged
that way so it doesn't use as much current, or stall the servo.
Mine is easily adjustable, though, and since my tail wheel is only 3 1/2", I
may increase the deflection of the tailwheel.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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