Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:32 AM - Wing Drop (Peter W Johnson)
2. 03:42 AM - Re: varnishing (Gene & Tammy)
3. 04:45 AM - Re: Wing Drop (Phillips, Jack)
4. 05:34 AM - Re: New Pictures (Bill Church)
5. 08:12 AM - Re: varnishing (Brian Kraut)
6. 08:44 AM - Re: varnishing (HelsperSew@aol.com)
7. 01:13 PM - Re: varnishing (jimboyer@hughes.net)
8. 02:42 PM - Re: Wing Drop (Peter W Johnson)
9. 03:22 PM - Re: Wing Drop (walt evans)
10. 03:32 PM - Re: Wing Drop (Peter W Johnson)
11. 04:04 PM - Re: Wing Drop (walt evans)
12. 04:42 PM - Re: Wing Drop (Gordon Bowen)
Message 1
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Hi Guys,
I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented
that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand
wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb
out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in
cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back
pressure cures that.
Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
8:02 AM
4:54 PM
Message 2
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For what it's worth. I've never used them for varnish, but in the past I
have done a lot of small painting jobs with an aircan and jar that you can
buy at most hardware and automotive stores. The unit comes with an
airfilled spray unit and a glass jar that can be refilled as many time as
you wish. The air spray unit lasts a fairly long time (can't remember how
many jar fulls). I once spray painted a 60' sailboat mast with one of these
units. As I remember, they cost about $4.
If anyone is interested, I can run one down and give you more info.
Gene in Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
> <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> Steve
> I'm with you on cost cutting, but for those very hard to get at places, it
> will save lots of time. I'll double check but I don't think I paid more
> than $5 per can and only used a couple of cans on those bad places.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:10 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
>
>
>> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>>
>> hi
>>
>> Just a cheap......... errrr cost effective guy from Maine. Checked HD in
>> Boise a week ago and varnish in a spray can was almost $9.00 USD per can.
>> Would think it will take a lot of cans to do the wings. I know spraying
>> with an "inexpensive " spray gun and a compressor would be a much more
>> satisfying way foir me to do the job.
>>
>> Steve in Maine
>>
>>
>>>From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
>>>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:17:43 -0500
>>>
>>>Just to clarify my post, spar varnish is available in spray cans at the
>>>hardware store.
>>>I was multi tasking on the computer last night, no, I didn't varnish it.
>>>Dick N
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop
>> by today!
>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 269.14.4/1057 - Release Date: 10/8/2007 9:04 AM
>
>
Message 3
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Hi Peter,
What do you have for power? Does your propeller turn clockwise as
viewed from the cockpit? If so, it may just be "P-Factor" that is
causing the wing drop. As you raise the nose to lift off, the blade of
the prop moving downwards (on the right side of the airplane) gets a
little more lift/thrust than the other side and makes the plane yaw to
the left slightly. That yaw to the left can cause the right wing to
rise slightly.
Are your wings rigged identically? Any difference in angle of incidence
can cause a rolling tendencey, but if it flies hands-off in cruise
without dropping a wing, that is not likely. Does it fly "Feet-off"?
It may be that the plane is slightly out of rig and you are
subconscioulsy correcting it with rudder. Mind you, most Pietenpols
don't fly feet off very well - they are just not very stable in yaw,
particularly if you have the long fuselage version like mine.
Or, if you notice the effect any time you apply up-elevator, it may be
that your elevators are not rigged evenly. SInce the elevators are not
connected to each other on a Pietenpol, a difference in cable tension
between the right and left elevator cables can cause assymmetrical
elevator motion. If the left elevator moves up more than the right one
when you initiate a climb, it could cause a slight roll to the left.
The F-16 uses differential stabilators to aid the flaperons in achieving
the 540 degree per second roll rate on that airplane.
Please keep us posted on what you find.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W
Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Hi Guys,
I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He
commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the
left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with
aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet
flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small
amount of back pressure cures that.
Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/>
25/09/2007 8:02 AM
8/10/2007 4:54 PM
_________________________________________________
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orsk - Portuguese
Message 4
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Ryan is right, Chris.
The mystery plane is N58TL.
N58TL was built by Bill Emo, and Bill's friend, Tim Mickel built an
identical plane, N57TL at the same time (over a seven year span, I
believe).
Why do I know this? Because my one and only flight in a Piet was in
Tim's plane, at Brodhead 2004....and I took the photo.
The only way I can tell the two planes apart is that Bill's plane has
the black prop, and Tim's has a polished aluminum prop.
Bill C.
Message 5
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That would be a Preval. They are available at most automotive paint stores
and either Home Depot or Lowes. I can't remember which one has it and which
doesn't.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
For what it's worth. I've never used them for varnish, but in the past I
have done a lot of small painting jobs with an aircan and jar that you can
buy at most hardware and automotive stores. The unit comes with an
airfilled spray unit and a glass jar that can be refilled as many time as
you wish. The air spray unit lasts a fairly long time (can't remember how
many jar fulls). I once spray painted a 60' sailboat mast with one of these
units. As I remember, they cost about $4.
If anyone is interested, I can run one down and give you more info.
Gene in Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
> <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> Steve
> I'm with you on cost cutting, but for those very hard to get at places, it
> will save lots of time. I'll double check but I don't think I paid more
> than $5 per can and only used a couple of cans on those bad places.
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:10 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
>
>
>> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>>
>> hi
>>
>> Just a cheap......... errrr cost effective guy from Maine. Checked HD in
>> Boise a week ago and varnish in a spray can was almost $9.00 USD per can.
>> Would think it will take a lot of cans to do the wings. I know spraying
>> with an "inexpensive " spray gun and a compressor would be a much more
>> satisfying way foir me to do the job.
>>
>> Steve in Maine
>>
>>
>>>From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: varnishing
>>>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:17:43 -0500
>>>
>>>Just to clarify my post, spar varnish is available in spray cans at the
>>>hardware store.
>>>I was multi tasking on the computer last night, no, I didn't varnish it.
>>>Dick N
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop
>> by today!
>>
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHM
tagline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 269.14.4/1057 - Release Date: 10/8/2007 9:04 AM
>
>
Message 6
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Wick's also has this PREVAL spray gun now. Item # PRV67, $6.87 ea.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 7
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After brushing on a first coat of varnish I was thinking of using a
HVLP spray rig. That would get in those hard to reach areas by the
gussets where braces come together.
Jim
Message 8
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Jack,
Thanks for the reply.
I have a Corvair on the front so the rotation from the cockpit is counter
clockwise. That would make the P-Factor the opposite way from a Cont or
similar.
Before I rebuilt my engine the Piet would fly hands and feet off for a while
but since I have reinstalled the engine it tends to turn right a little. I
need to realign the engine on its mount again. (The Corvair has larger
mounting holes than the diameter of the mounting bolts!)
When I next fly, I will see if the elevator makes any changes to the roll.
Cheers, Ill keep you posted.
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips,
Jack
Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Hi Peter,
What do you have for power? Does your propeller turn clockwise as viewed
from the cockpit? If so, it may just be "P-Factor" that is causing the wing
drop. As you raise the nose to lift off, the blade of the prop moving
downwards (on the right side of the airplane) gets a little more lift/thrust
than the other side and makes the plane yaw to the left slightly. That yaw
to the left can cause the right wing to rise slightly.
Are your wings rigged identically? Any difference in angle of incidence can
cause a rolling tendencey, but if it flies hands-off in cruise without
dropping a wing, that is not likely. Does it fly "Feet-off"? It may be
that the plane is slightly out of rig and you are subconscioulsy correcting
it with rudder. Mind you, most Pietenpols don't fly feet off very well -
they are just not very stable in yaw, particularly if you have the long
fuselage version like mine.
Or, if you notice the effect any time you apply up-elevator, it may be that
your elevators are not rigged evenly. SInce the elevators are not connected
to each other on a Pietenpol, a difference in cable tension between the
right and left elevator cables can cause assymmetrical elevator motion. If
the left elevator moves up more than the right one when you initiate a
climb, it could cause a slight roll to the left. The F-16 uses differential
stabilators to aid the flaperons in achieving the 540 degree per second roll
rate on that airplane.
Please keep us posted on what you find.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W
Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Hi Guys,
I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented
that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand
wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb
out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in
cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back
pressure cures that.
Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
25/09/2007 8:02 AM
8/10/2007 4:54 PM
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
4:54 PM
4:54 PM
Message 9
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Think it's just as simple as you have the stick slightly off center.
Sounds simple, but with all you are thinking about when you come on with
the throttle, you don't realise you have the stick to one side.
Next time you roll it around on the number and are ready to throttle
up,,,,,,,,glance at the ailerons,,and I'll bet they won't be even. Just
a matter of teaching yourself where your hands should be.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Hi Guys,
I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He
commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the
left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with
aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet
flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small
amount of back pressure cures that.
Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
25/09/2007 8:02 AM
8/10/2007 4:54 PM
Message 10
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Walt,
Thanks, I hope things are as simple as that. I=92ll take notice next
flight.
Cheers
Peter.
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2007 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Think it's just as simple as you have the stick slightly off center.
Sounds simple, but with all you are thinking about when you come on with
the
throttle, you don't realise you have the stick to one side.
Next time you roll it around on the number and are ready to throttle
up,,,,,,,,glance at the ailerons,,and I'll bet they won't be even. Just
a
matter of teaching yourself where your hands should be.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:vk3eka@bigpond.net.au"Peter W Johnson
"mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com"pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Hi Guys,
I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He
commented
that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand
wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on
climb
out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in
cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back
pressure cures that.
Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
8/10/2007
4:54 PM
8/10/2007
4:54 PM
Message 11
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Peter,
Come to think of it, it might be the same reason that the water spins in
the other direction in the sink drain, up here on the top of the world.
:^)
I envy you guys, this starts your spring, as we go into fall and
winter,,,,Happy flying season!
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:27 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Walt,
Thanks, I hope things are as simple as that. I=92ll take notice next
flight.
Cheers
Peter.
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2007 8:21 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Think it's just as simple as you have the stick slightly off center.
Sounds simple, but with all you are thinking about when you come on
with the throttle, you don't realise you have the stick to one side.
Next time you roll it around on the number and are ready to throttle
up,,,,,,,,glance at the ailerons,,and I'll bet they won't be even. Just
a matter of teaching yourself where your hands should be.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Hi Guys,
I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He
commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the
left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with
aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet
flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small
amount of back pressure cures that.
Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
Release Date: 8/10/2007 4:54 PM
8/10/2007 4:54 PM
Message 12
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Agree with Walt, first few times I flew a stick homebuilt airplane I had
the ailerons so uneven due to the position of my paw, damn near flew off
the runway as soon as the plane rotated. Thought I had the rigging
wrong or something else was messed up with the tailfeathers, just bad
positioning of my arm.
gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Think it's just as simple as you have the stick slightly off center.
Sounds simple, but with all you are thinking about when you come on
with the throttle, you don't realise you have the stick to one side.
Next time you roll it around on the number and are ready to throttle
up,,,,,,,,glance at the ailerons,,and I'll bet they won't be even. Just
a matter of teaching yourself where your hands should be.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop
Hi Guys,
I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He
commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the
left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with
aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet
flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small
amount of back pressure cures that.
Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
25/09/2007 8:02 AM
8/10/2007 4:54 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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