---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/09/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:32 AM - Wing Drop (Peter W Johnson) 2. 03:42 AM - Re: varnishing (Gene & Tammy) 3. 04:45 AM - Re: Wing Drop (Phillips, Jack) 4. 05:34 AM - Re: New Pictures (Bill Church) 5. 08:12 AM - Re: varnishing (Brian Kraut) 6. 08:44 AM - Re: varnishing (HelsperSew@aol.com) 7. 01:13 PM - Re: varnishing (jimboyer@hughes.net) 8. 02:42 PM - Re: Wing Drop (Peter W Johnson) 9. 03:22 PM - Re: Wing Drop (walt evans) 10. 03:32 PM - Re: Wing Drop (Peter W Johnson) 11. 04:04 PM - Re: Wing Drop (walt evans) 12. 04:42 PM - Re: Wing Drop (Gordon Bowen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:35 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Hi Guys, I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back pressure cures that. Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com 8:02 AM 4:54 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:07 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing For what it's worth. I've never used them for varnish, but in the past I have done a lot of small painting jobs with an aircan and jar that you can buy at most hardware and automotive stores. The unit comes with an airfilled spray unit and a glass jar that can be refilled as many time as you wish. The air spray unit lasts a fairly long time (can't remember how many jar fulls). I once spray painted a 60' sailboat mast with one of these units. As I remember, they cost about $4. If anyone is interested, I can run one down and give you more info. Gene in Tennessee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Navratil" Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing > > > Steve > I'm with you on cost cutting, but for those very hard to get at places, it > will save lots of time. I'll double check but I don't think I paid more > than $5 per can and only used a couple of cans on those bad places. > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Glass" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:10 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: varnishing > > >> >> >> hi >> >> Just a cheap......... errrr cost effective guy from Maine. Checked HD in >> Boise a week ago and varnish in a spray can was almost $9.00 USD per can. >> Would think it will take a lot of cans to do the wings. I know spraying >> with an "inexpensive " spray gun and a compressor would be a much more >> satisfying way foir me to do the job. >> >> Steve in Maine >> >> >>>From: "Dick Navratil" >>>To: >>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: varnishing >>>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:17:43 -0500 >>> >>>Just to clarify my post, spar varnish is available in spray cans at the >>>hardware store. >>>I was multi tasking on the computer last night, no, I didn't varnish it. >>>Dick N >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop >> by today! >> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > 269.14.4/1057 - Release Date: 10/8/2007 9:04 AM > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop From: "Phillips, Jack" Hi Peter, What do you have for power? Does your propeller turn clockwise as viewed from the cockpit? If so, it may just be "P-Factor" that is causing the wing drop. As you raise the nose to lift off, the blade of the prop moving downwards (on the right side of the airplane) gets a little more lift/thrust than the other side and makes the plane yaw to the left slightly. That yaw to the left can cause the right wing to rise slightly. Are your wings rigged identically? Any difference in angle of incidence can cause a rolling tendencey, but if it flies hands-off in cruise without dropping a wing, that is not likely. Does it fly "Feet-off"? It may be that the plane is slightly out of rig and you are subconscioulsy correcting it with rudder. Mind you, most Pietenpols don't fly feet off very well - they are just not very stable in yaw, particularly if you have the long fuselage version like mine. Or, if you notice the effect any time you apply up-elevator, it may be that your elevators are not rigged evenly. SInce the elevators are not connected to each other on a Pietenpol, a difference in cable tension between the right and left elevator cables can cause assymmetrical elevator motion. If the left elevator moves up more than the right one when you initiate a climb, it could cause a slight roll to the left. The F-16 uses differential stabilators to aid the flaperons in achieving the 540 degree per second roll rate on that airplane. Please keep us posted on what you find. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Hi Guys, I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back pressure cures that. Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com 25/09/2007 8:02 AM 8/10/2007 4:54 PM _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Pictures From: "Bill Church" Ryan is right, Chris. The mystery plane is N58TL. N58TL was built by Bill Emo, and Bill's friend, Tim Mickel built an identical plane, N57TL at the same time (over a seven year span, I believe). Why do I know this? Because my one and only flight in a Piet was in Tim's plane, at Brodhead 2004....and I took the photo. The only way I can tell the two planes apart is that Bill's plane has the black prop, and Tim's has a polished aluminum prop. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:14 AM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: varnishing That would be a Preval. They are available at most automotive paint stores and either Home Depot or Lowes. I can't remember which one has it and which doesn't. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:42 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing For what it's worth. I've never used them for varnish, but in the past I have done a lot of small painting jobs with an aircan and jar that you can buy at most hardware and automotive stores. The unit comes with an airfilled spray unit and a glass jar that can be refilled as many time as you wish. The air spray unit lasts a fairly long time (can't remember how many jar fulls). I once spray painted a 60' sailboat mast with one of these units. As I remember, they cost about $4. If anyone is interested, I can run one down and give you more info. Gene in Tennessee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Navratil" Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing > > > Steve > I'm with you on cost cutting, but for those very hard to get at places, it > will save lots of time. I'll double check but I don't think I paid more > than $5 per can and only used a couple of cans on those bad places. > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Glass" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:10 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: varnishing > > >> >> >> hi >> >> Just a cheap......... errrr cost effective guy from Maine. Checked HD in >> Boise a week ago and varnish in a spray can was almost $9.00 USD per can. >> Would think it will take a lot of cans to do the wings. I know spraying >> with an "inexpensive " spray gun and a compressor would be a much more >> satisfying way foir me to do the job. >> >> Steve in Maine >> >> >>>From: "Dick Navratil" >>>To: >>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: varnishing >>>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:17:43 -0500 >>> >>>Just to clarify my post, spar varnish is available in spray cans at the >>>hardware store. >>>I was multi tasking on the computer last night, no, I didn't varnish it. >>>Dick N >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop >> by today! >> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHM tagline >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > 269.14.4/1057 - Release Date: 10/8/2007 9:04 AM > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:37 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing Wick's also has this PREVAL spray gun now. Item # PRV67, $6.87 ea. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:42 PM PST US From: "jimboyer@hughes.net" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: varnishing After brushing on a first coat of varnish I was thinking of using a HVLP spray rig. That would get in those hard to reach areas by the gussets where braces come together. Jim ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:04 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Jack, Thanks for the reply. I have a Corvair on the front so the rotation from the cockpit is counter clockwise. That would make the P-Factor the opposite way from a Cont or similar. Before I rebuilt my engine the Piet would fly hands and feet off for a while but since I have reinstalled the engine it tends to turn right a little. I need to realign the engine on its mount again. (The Corvair has larger mounting holes than the diameter of the mounting bolts!) When I next fly, I will see if the elevator makes any changes to the roll. Cheers, Ill keep you posted. Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2007 9:45 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Hi Peter, What do you have for power? Does your propeller turn clockwise as viewed from the cockpit? If so, it may just be "P-Factor" that is causing the wing drop. As you raise the nose to lift off, the blade of the prop moving downwards (on the right side of the airplane) gets a little more lift/thrust than the other side and makes the plane yaw to the left slightly. That yaw to the left can cause the right wing to rise slightly. Are your wings rigged identically? Any difference in angle of incidence can cause a rolling tendencey, but if it flies hands-off in cruise without dropping a wing, that is not likely. Does it fly "Feet-off"? It may be that the plane is slightly out of rig and you are subconscioulsy correcting it with rudder. Mind you, most Pietenpols don't fly feet off very well - they are just not very stable in yaw, particularly if you have the long fuselage version like mine. Or, if you notice the effect any time you apply up-elevator, it may be that your elevators are not rigged evenly. SInce the elevators are not connected to each other on a Pietenpol, a difference in cable tension between the right and left elevator cables can cause assymmetrical elevator motion. If the left elevator moves up more than the right one when you initiate a climb, it could cause a slight roll to the left. The F-16 uses differential stabilators to aid the flaperons in achieving the 540 degree per second roll rate on that airplane. Please keep us posted on what you find. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Hi Guys, I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back pressure cures that. Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com 25/09/2007 8:02 AM 8/10/2007 4:54 PM ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ics.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List 4:54 PM 4:54 PM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:19 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Think it's just as simple as you have the stick slightly off center. Sounds simple, but with all you are thinking about when you come on with the throttle, you don't realise you have the stick to one side. Next time you roll it around on the number and are ready to throttle up,,,,,,,,glance at the ailerons,,and I'll bet they won't be even. Just a matter of teaching yourself where your hands should be. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Hi Guys, I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back pressure cures that. Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com 25/09/2007 8:02 AM 8/10/2007 4:54 PM ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:40 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Walt, Thanks, I hope things are as simple as that. I=92ll take notice next flight. Cheers Peter. Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2007 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Think it's just as simple as you have the stick slightly off center. Sounds simple, but with all you are thinking about when you come on with the throttle, you don't realise you have the stick to one side. Next time you roll it around on the number and are ready to throttle up,,,,,,,,glance at the ailerons,,and I'll bet they won't be even. Just a matter of teaching yourself where your hands should be. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:vk3eka@bigpond.net.au"Peter W Johnson "mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com"pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Hi Guys, I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back pressure cures that. Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com 8/10/2007 4:54 PM 8/10/2007 4:54 PM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:30 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Peter, Come to think of it, it might be the same reason that the water spins in the other direction in the sink drain, up here on the top of the world. :^) I envy you guys, this starts your spring, as we go into fall and winter,,,,Happy flying season! Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Walt, Thanks, I hope things are as simple as that. I=92ll take notice next flight. Cheers Peter. Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2007 8:21 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Think it's just as simple as you have the stick slightly off center. Sounds simple, but with all you are thinking about when you come on with the throttle, you don't realise you have the stick to one side. Next time you roll it around on the number and are ready to throttle up,,,,,,,,glance at the ailerons,,and I'll bet they won't be even. Just a matter of teaching yourself where your hands should be. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Hi Guys, I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back pressure cures that. Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com Release Date: 8/10/2007 4:54 PM 8/10/2007 4:54 PM ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:11 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Agree with Walt, first few times I flew a stick homebuilt airplane I had the ailerons so uneven due to the position of my paw, damn near flew off the runway as soon as the plane rotated. Thought I had the rigging wrong or something else was messed up with the tailfeathers, just bad positioning of my arm. gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Think it's just as simple as you have the stick slightly off center. Sounds simple, but with all you are thinking about when you come on with the throttle, you don't realise you have the stick to one side. Next time you roll it around on the number and are ready to throttle up,,,,,,,,glance at the ailerons,,and I'll bet they won't be even. Just a matter of teaching yourself where your hands should be. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Drop Hi Guys, I went for a fly today with one of my hangar mates watching. He commented that every time he has seen the Piet fly (not just today), the left hand wing drops just on lift off. I obviously pick it up with aileron on climb out and have not been conscious of doing it. The Piet flies hands off in cruise with just a little nose down movement. A small amount of back pressure cures that. Any ideas as to what the cause of the wing drop is? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com 25/09/2007 8:02 AM 8/10/2007 4:54 PM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.