Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:58 AM - Piet in Camden, AL (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 07:31 AM - Re: Question about short fuse with a Corvair (Robert Gow)
3. 07:36 AM - Re: Model A plans (Robert Gow)
4. 08:22 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Phillips, Jack)
5. 08:40 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Robert Gow)
6. 08:41 AM - Re: Model A plans (Max Hegler)
7. 10:09 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Barry Davis)
8. 10:26 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Gordon Bowen)
9. 10:39 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL ()
10. 11:39 AM - Piet in Camden, AL (Oscar Zuniga)
11. 11:51 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Robert Gow)
12. 11:51 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL ()
13. 12:27 PM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
14. 12:56 PM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
15. 01:12 PM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Jack T. Textor)
16. 01:14 PM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Ryan Mueller)
17. 01:39 PM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Gordon Bowen)
18. 02:20 PM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Roman Bukolt)
19. 02:32 PM - Piet in Camden, AL (Oscar Zuniga)
20. 05:26 PM - Retraction (Glenn Thomas)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
Well, my friend Mark Langford flew his KR down to Camden, AL on Saturday to survey
the Piet project that is available down there. It turns out to be N40WH,
a Piet with some GN-1 modifications and a "Germanized" set of tail feathers.
It also has the Scout-like external bellcranks for the elevator cables, which
add to the old-timey look. It originally flew in something like 1993 with a Continental
75 on it, then somewhere along the way it got a Corvair on the nose.
It went down when the throttle cable came loose on takeoff and the engine couldn't
develop full power.
The damage is fairly extensive but not real bad in any one place. Landing gear
is damaged (both legs), the tailwheel ripped off along with a section of the
tailpost and lower longerons, part of the rudder is bashed up, both wingtips and
one or two ribs inboard from there, one of the wing struts is in two pieces,
the engine cowlings are complete toast, the engine mount has damage to several
tubes, the firewall is toast, the fuel tank (wing center section) has damage
and is leaking, and the list goes on. The pictures show lots of dried sludge,
dirt, wasp nests, rust and corrosion, and general neglect from it sitting untouched
since the accident. But none of it is serious enough to make me think
that it is unrepairable. Much of it is the same as what 41CC had two years
ago, which has piqued my interest in acquiring this project in hopes of getting
another sad bunch of dirty and beat-up airplane parts back in the air.
It is one of the few Piets I've ever seen with complete instrumentation in both
cockpits. It also has an interesting toe brake setup.
I don't know... I may make Mr. Furman an offer on the project and see if I get
something to start working on this winter! In the BPA Newsletter ad he's asking
$8000 or best offer. I think the amount he's asking is more than it's worth,
but there is quite a bit of potential there for somebody who wants the challenge
of a restoration and repair. If he takes the offer, sometime in November
I'll be pulling a trailer down along the Gulf coast and would be happy to stop
in and say hello to any Pieters along the way either coming or going.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Question about short fuse with a Corvair |
Perhaps the designer shed some light on why he chose to lengthen the
fuselage. Was there anything in writing on the subject by Mr. Pietenpol?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Max Hegler
Sent: October 13, 2007 11:28 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about short fuse with a Corvair
I thought lengthening the fuselage for the lighter engines was to offset
the moment arm for control purposes. Lighter engines required longer engine
mounts, thus resulting in longer "noses". This resulted in less control
response with the shorter fuselage. Airplanes with engines that weigh as
much as the Model "A" would not need any added length.
Of course, I'm no aeroplane engineer!
Take Care,
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about short fuse with a Corvair
Regarding what you said about offsetting the heaver Corvair with more
weight in the tail....
A Corvair engine is heavier than a Continental, yes. The long fuse was
designed with the Corvair in mind, but since the Corvair is approximately 15
to 20 pounds lighter than Model A, why the need for the longer fuselage?
As best I can figure, a Corvair with a short fuselage would therefore
potentially be tail heavy (since there is a little less weight forward of
the CG), which would be corrected by lengthening the engine mount (to extend
the moment of the engine) and/or adjusting the cabane struts.
If, in order to correct it, you then lengthen the fuselage and put more
structure aft of the CG, in addition to moving the pilot slightly farther
aft, this would only exacerbate an already tail heavy condition. Am I
confused in my thinking?
Ryan
Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net> wrote:
The Corvair engine weight about 230 lbs.
The Continental weighs about 170 lbs.
To keep the C.G. no further aft then 33% of the chord, you must offset
the heavier Corvair with more weight in the the tail.
My Piet was originally built long to accomodate a Corvair. Even then
added weight was installed way back in the tail.
Then the Corvair froze up and and was replaced with a Cont. A-65.
When I bought the plane the C.G. was at 39%. Seriously tail heavy. Luckily
I had Bill Rewey doing the landings and take offs when we flew the plane
back to Madison, Wi. from Iowa.
Since then I corrected the C.G. by installing a 30lb. 12v battery on
the firewall.
The C.G. is the balance point. All the weight ahead of the C.G. must
equal all the weight aft of the C.G.
The heavier engine in front requires more weight aft. A longer moment
aft requires les weight than a short moment aft.
And lightness is a good thing.
Heaviness is not a good thing. The longer the moment, the less weight
required.
Roman Bukolt NX20795
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about short fuse with a Corvair
I have a question regarding the need for the long fuselage when
using a Corvair engine. Based on most of what I have read, the justification
is that the long fuselage was developed to meet W&B requirements when using
the Corvair/Continentals.
What I fail to understand is how having a longer fuselage helps that
issue, for this reason: lengthening the fuselage increases the moments for
any weight that is moved aft. Therefore the structure of a long fuselage
would have more wood farther aft of the datum than not, for lack of better
phrasing. In addition, having the rear cockpit farther aft will only
increase the arm of the pilot's weight. I don't see how moving more weight
farther aft to compensate for a lighter engine up front computes.
I understand the long fuse has more room inside. I was able to sit
in the Last Original at Brodhead and had a generous amount of legroom, and
my wife is shorter than I was, so I don't think the short fuse would cramp
us. We would then be able to build a lighter aircraft. Finally, I would
think at my weight (220) I would have to take less drastic measures to get a
short fuse Corvair Piet to balance out than a long fuselage version. Any
thoughts?
Ryan
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 3
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There is a builders manual? Were from?
As for the model A, I remember the Funk Model B which had a certified
conversion of the Ford engine. Does anyone know it those engines exist
anywhere and what the mods were?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Max Hegler
Sent: October 14, 2007 11:50 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A plans
Dick,
I was wondering if there are any conversion plans for the Model A other
than the Pietenpol plans set and the builders manual. I don't have the
builders manual, but think I will order it. The website says it has the
Model A conversion instructions. I just need more than the single sheet
that is in the Pietenpol plans.
I have a Model A that has most of the work done. I just need to build the
Mag tray and drive and a few other items. I just would like to get the
Model A running even if I decide to go with the Rotec. I just like to
tinker...even when I don't know what I'm doing!
Take Care,
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A plans
Max
All I have are the sheets that came with the plans from Don Pietenpol.
You have there Piet list here and there are other builders in your area who,
I'm sure would like to chat and provide assistance. I havent run any
numbers on Rotec installation with the short fuse. I was just going from
eyeballing the approx cg on both engines.
Dick
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Max Hegler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A plans
Are there plans to convert the Model A engine for aircraft use? The
only thing I have is the plan sheet in the Pietenpol plans. I have a Model
A engine that has been started, ut I would like to finish it and the plans
are not that great for a non-engine mechanic.
Thanks,
Max
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
I don't know, Oscar - sounds like an awful lot of damage to me. And
I'll bet the more you get into it, the more damage you'll find. I had
to repair the lower longerons after I wiped the tailwheel off mine in my
forced landing, and that repair was not trivial Sounds like it is
close to being totalled to me. If the engine mount is bent and the
firewall is "toast", I would really wonder about the front half of the
fuselage. The leaking fuel tank will probably have to be replaced. You
will have to build a new engine mount, landing gear, fuel tank, cowling.
firewall, lift struts, etc. If the lift strut was broken, I would
certainly suspect the spar it was attached to. I think I'd rather build
a whole new airplane and just use this one for a few parts, if you can
get it for $2,000 or less. No way I'd pay $8,000 for that. You'll
likely have more than $16,000 in it by the time you get it flying, and
you can build one for less than that.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Well, my friend Mark Langford flew his KR down to Camden, AL on Saturday
to survey the Piet project that is available down there. It turns out
to be N40WH, a Piet with some GN-1 modifications and a "Germanized" set
of tail feathers. It also has the Scout-like external bellcranks for
the elevator cables, which add to the old-timey look. It originally
flew in something like 1993 with a Continental 75 on it, then somewhere
along the way it got a Corvair on the nose. It went down when the
throttle cable came loose on takeoff and the engine couldn't develop
full power.
The damage is fairly extensive but not real bad in any one place.
Landing gear is damaged (both legs), the tailwheel ripped off along with
a section of the tailpost and lower longerons, part of the rudder is
bashed up, both wingtips and one or two ribs inboard from there, one of
the wing struts is in two pieces, the engine cowlings are complete
toast, the engine mount has damage to several tubes, the firewall is
toast, the fuel tank (wing center section) has damage and is leaking,
and the list goes on. The pictures show lots of dried sludge, dirt,
wasp nests, rust and corrosion, and general neglect from it sitting
untouched since the accident. But none of it is serious enough to make
me think that it is unrepairable. Much of it is the same as what 41CC
had two years ago, which has piqued my interest in acquiring this
project in hopes of getting another sad bunch of dirty and beat-up
airplane parts back in the air.
It is one of the few Piets I've ever seen with complete instrumentation
in both cockpits. It also has an interesting toe brake setup.
I don't know... I may make Mr. Furman an offer on the project and see if
I get something to start working on this winter! In the BPA Newsletter
ad he's asking $8000 or best offer. I think the amount he's asking is
more than it's worth, but there is quite a bit of potential there for
somebody who wants the challenge of a restoration and repair. If he
takes the offer, sometime in November I'll be pulling a trailer down
along the Gulf coast and would be happy to stop in and say hello to any
Pieters along the way either coming or going.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
Message 5
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
I agree. I bought a complete fuselage, centre section, and a full set of
ribs with spar stock and so forth for $2500.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips,
Jack
Sent: October 15, 2007 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
<Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
I don't know, Oscar - sounds like an awful lot of damage to me. And
I'll bet the more you get into it, the more damage you'll find. I had
to repair the lower longerons after I wiped the tailwheel off mine in my
forced landing, and that repair was not trivial Sounds like it is
close to being totalled to me. If the engine mount is bent and the
firewall is "toast", I would really wonder about the front half of the
fuselage. The leaking fuel tank will probably have to be replaced. You
will have to build a new engine mount, landing gear, fuel tank, cowling.
firewall, lift struts, etc. If the lift strut was broken, I would
certainly suspect the spar it was attached to. I think I'd rather build
a whole new airplane and just use this one for a few parts, if you can
get it for $2,000 or less. No way I'd pay $8,000 for that. You'll
likely have more than $16,000 in it by the time you get it flying, and
you can build one for less than that.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Well, my friend Mark Langford flew his KR down to Camden, AL on Saturday
to survey the Piet project that is available down there. It turns out
to be N40WH, a Piet with some GN-1 modifications and a "Germanized" set
of tail feathers. It also has the Scout-like external bellcranks for
the elevator cables, which add to the old-timey look. It originally
flew in something like 1993 with a Continental 75 on it, then somewhere
along the way it got a Corvair on the nose. It went down when the
throttle cable came loose on takeoff and the engine couldn't develop
full power.
The damage is fairly extensive but not real bad in any one place.
Landing gear is damaged (both legs), the tailwheel ripped off along with
a section of the tailpost and lower longerons, part of the rudder is
bashed up, both wingtips and one or two ribs inboard from there, one of
the wing struts is in two pieces, the engine cowlings are complete
toast, the engine mount has damage to several tubes, the firewall is
toast, the fuel tank (wing center section) has damage and is leaking,
and the list goes on. The pictures show lots of dried sludge, dirt,
wasp nests, rust and corrosion, and general neglect from it sitting
untouched since the accident. But none of it is serious enough to make
me think that it is unrepairable. Much of it is the same as what 41CC
had two years ago, which has piqued my interest in acquiring this
project in hopes of getting another sad bunch of dirty and beat-up
airplane parts back in the air.
It is one of the few Piets I've ever seen with complete instrumentation
in both cockpits. It also has an interesting toe brake setup.
I don't know... I may make Mr. Furman an offer on the project and see if
I get something to start working on this winter! In the BPA Newsletter
ad he's asking $8000 or best offer. I think the amount he's asking is
more than it's worth, but there is quite a bit of potential there for
somebody who wants the challenge of a restoration and repair. If he
takes the offer, sometime in November I'll be pulling a trailer down
along the Gulf coast and would be happy to stop in and say hello to any
Pieters along the way either coming or going.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Model A plans |
It is on this page of the Pietenpol family's website:
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/My_Homepage_Files/Page47.html
"Chapter IV Converting Ford Model A Engines For Flight"
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Gow
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Model A plans
There is a builders manual? Were from?
As for the model A, I remember the Funk Model B which had a certified
conversion of the Ford engine. Does anyone know it those engines exist
anywhere and what the mods were?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Max
Hegler
Sent: October 14, 2007 11:50 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A plans
Dick,
I was wondering if there are any conversion plans for the Model A
other than the Pietenpol plans set and the builders manual. I don't
have the builders manual, but think I will order it. The website says
it has the Model A conversion instructions. I just need more than the
single sheet that is in the Pietenpol plans.
I have a Model A that has most of the work done. I just need to
build the Mag tray and drive and a few other items. I just would like
to get the Model A running even if I decide to go with the Rotec. I
just like to tinker...even when I don't know what I'm doing!
Take Care,
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A plans
Max
All I have are the sheets that came with the plans from Don
Pietenpol. You have there Piet list here and there are other builders
in your area who, I'm sure would like to chat and provide assistance. I
havent run any numbers on Rotec installation with the short fuse. I was
just going from eyeballing the approx cg on both engines.
Dick
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Max Hegler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A plans
Are there plans to convert the Model A engine for aircraft use?
The only thing I have is the plan sheet in the Pietenpol plans. I have
a Model A engine that has been started, ut I would like to finish it and
the plans are not that great for a non-engine mechanic.
Thanks,
Max
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Piet in Camden, AL |
I can't think of anything on this plane worth close to $8k. It would be
easier to build the big stuff like fuselage and wings from scratch and reuse
the fittings and hardware. There would always be that thought in the back of
your mind as you were flying "did I really find EVERY crack?"
My $ .02 worth
Barry Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
>
>
> Well, my friend Mark Langford flew his KR down to Camden, AL on Saturday
> to survey the Piet project that is available down there. It turns out to
> be N40WH, a Piet with some GN-1 modifications and a "Germanized" set of
> tail feathers. It also has the Scout-like external bellcranks for the
> elevator cables, which add to the old-timey look. It originally flew in
> something like 1993 with a Continental 75 on it, then somewhere along the
> way it got a Corvair on the nose. It went down when the throttle cable
> came loose on takeoff and the engine couldn't develop full power.
>
> The damage is fairly extensive but not real bad in any one place. Landing
> gear is damaged (both legs), the tailwheel ripped off along with a section
> of the tailpost and lower longerons, part of the rudder is bashed up, both
> wingtips and one or two ribs inboard from there, one of the wing struts is
> in two pieces, the engine cowlings are complete toast, the engine mount
> has damage to several tubes, the firewall is toast, the fuel tank (wing
> center section) has damage and is leaking, and the list goes on. The
> pictures show lots of dried sludge, dirt, wasp nests, rust and corrosion,
> and general neglect from it sitting untouched since the accident. But
> none of it is serious enough to make me think that it is unrepairable.
> Much of it is the same as what 41CC had two years ago, which has piqued my
> interest in acquiring this project in hopes of getting another sad bunch
> of dirty and beat-up airplane parts back in the air.
>
> It is one of the few Piets I've ever seen with complete instrumentation in
> both cockpits. It also has an interesting toe brake setup.
>
> I don't know... I may make Mr. Furman an offer on the project and see if I
> get something to start working on this winter! In the BPA Newsletter ad
> he's asking $8000 or best offer. I think the amount he's asking is more
> than it's worth, but there is quite a bit of potential there for somebody
> who wants the challenge of a restoration and repair. If he takes the
> offer, sometime in November I'll be pulling a trailer down along the Gulf
> coast and would be happy to stop in and say hello to any Pieters along the
> way either coming or going.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Piet in Camden, AL |
Oscar,
I'd probably not buy sight unseen, $8K sounds kinda high for a wrecked
homebuilt of any type unless the engine alone is worth that amount. Or
wings are off an original Cub or T-craft and are undamaged. I only paid
$4.5K for N-1033B 4 years ago with bidding on E-bay, wings like new off
Aeronca. Could have parted out and got my money back. But put additional
$6K with upgrade to 0-235 engine and now have flying machine. This rebuild
was mostly working with 4130 and then recovering with Stits and replacing
engine. I think you'll have a lot more money in rebuilding this airplane
than it gonna be worth if you pay $8K for the wreck. This Piete is my
second project from wrecked, and my rule of thumb is not to pay for a wreck
more than I could immediately get out of it by parting out. You can get
fair prices on values of instruments, engine parts, OEM wings, etc. by
calling Wentworth or looking in Trade-a-plane. But it's really hard to put
a value on someone else's homebuilt work on the fuselage or wings.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 5:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
>
>
> Well, my friend Mark Langford flew his KR down to Camden, AL on Saturday
> to survey the Piet project that is available down there. It turns out to
> be N40WH, a Piet with some GN-1 modifications and a "Germanized" set of
> tail feathers. It also has the Scout-like external bellcranks for the
> elevator cables, which add to the old-timey look. It originally flew in
> something like 1993 with a Continental 75 on it, then somewhere along the
> way it got a Corvair on the nose. It went down when the throttle cable
> came loose on takeoff and the engine couldn't develop full power.
>
> The damage is fairly extensive but not real bad in any one place. Landing
> gear is damaged (both legs), the tailwheel ripped off along with a section
> of the tailpost and lower longerons, part of the rudder is bashed up, both
> wingtips and one or two ribs inboard from there, one of the wing struts is
> in two pieces, the engine cowlings are complete toast, the engine mount
> has damage to several tubes, the firewall is toast, the fuel tank (wing
> center section) has damage and is leaking, and the list goes on. The
> pictures show lots of dried sludge, dirt, wasp nests, rust and corrosion,
> and general neglect from it sitting untouched since the accident. But
> none of it is serious enough to make me think that it is unrepairable.
> Much of it is the same as what 41CC had two years ago, which has piqued my
> interest in acquiring this project in hopes of getting another sad bunch
> of dirty and beat-up airplane parts back in the air.
>
> It is one of the few Piets I've ever seen with complete instrumentation in
> both cockpits. It also has an interesting toe brake setup.
>
> I don't know... I may make Mr. Furman an offer on the project and see if I
> get something to start working on this winter! In the BPA Newsletter ad
> he's asking $8000 or best offer. I think the amount he's asking is more
> than it's worth, but there is quite a bit of potential there for somebody
> who wants the challenge of a restoration and repair. If he takes the
> offer, sometime in November I'll be pulling a trailer down along the Gulf
> coast and would be happy to stop in and say hello to any Pieters along the
> way either coming or going.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
If you really want this aircraft then make the guy an offer of say
around 2 thousand and see what happens.I wouldn't go much over three
though.That's probably what the engine is worth.My two cents worth.Up
here in Canada,that's worth about 3 cents now eh.HAHAHA!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
Guys, I never said I thought the project was worth $8K. It isn't. I will probably
make the gentleman an offer but it won't be $8K.
Believe me, I would not be going into something like this without eyes wide open,
but what concerns me is that a substantially worthwhile airframe may go under
the chainsaw unless someone with the time and interest sees it as having another
life left in it.
Thanks for all the comments.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 11
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
Sometimes a chainsaw is the best tool to use. But you won't know till you
see it.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: October 15, 2007 2:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
Guys, I never said I thought the project was worth $8K. It isn't. I will
probably make the gentleman an offer but it won't be $8K.
Believe me, I would not be going into something like this without eyes wide
open, but what concerns me is that a substantially worthwhile airframe may
go under the chainsaw unless someone with the time and interest sees it as
having another life left in it.
Thanks for all the comments.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 12
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
Chances are, it may be, that the chainsaw is where it belongs. The motor
may not even be worth salvaging. I would take along a good AME if I were
you. It may cost a few bucks to have him look at it or maybe you know
one as a friend but it would certainly be worth you life to look at it
this way.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Piet in Camden, AL |
"Mark Langford flew his KR"
Oscar,
So tell me about Marks Corvair engine and well it ran....what were your thoughts
on this engine and it's performance......
Ken
Gordon Bowen <gbowen@ptialaska.net> wrote:
Oscar,
I'd probably not buy sight unseen, $8K sounds kinda high for a wrecked
homebuilt of any type unless the engine alone is worth that amount. Or
wings are off an original Cub or T-craft and are undamaged. I only paid
$4.5K for N-1033B 4 years ago with bidding on E-bay, wings like new off
Aeronca. Could have parted out and got my money back. But put additional
$6K with upgrade to 0-235 engine and now have flying machine. This rebuild
was mostly working with 4130 and then recovering with Stits and replacing
engine. I think you'll have a lot more money in rebuilding this airplane
than it gonna be worth if you pay $8K for the wreck. This Piete is my
second project from wrecked, and my rule of thumb is not to pay for a wreck
more than I could immediately get out of it by parting out. You can get
fair prices on values of instruments, engine parts, OEM wings, etc. by
calling Wentworth or looking in Trade-a-plane. But it's really hard to put
a value on someone else's homebuilt work on the fuselage or wings.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga"
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 5:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
>
>
> Well, my friend Mark Langford flew his KR down to Camden, AL on Saturday
> to survey the Piet project that is available down there. It turns out to
> be N40WH, a Piet with some GN-1 modifications and a "Germanized" set of
> tail feathers. It also has the Scout-like external bellcranks for the
> elevator cables, which add to the old-timey look. It originally flew in
> something like 1993 with a Continental 75 on it, then somewhere along the
> way it got a Corvair on the nose. It went down when the throttle cable
> came loose on takeoff and the engine couldn't develop full power.
>
> The damage is fairly extensive but not real bad in any one place. Landing
> gear is damaged (both legs), the tailwheel ripped off along with a section
> of the tailpost and lower longerons, part of the rudder is bashed up, both
> wingtips and one or two ribs inboard from there, one of the wing struts is
> in two pieces, the engine cowlings are complete toast, the engine mount
> has damage to several tubes, the firewall is toast, the fuel tank (wing
> center section) has damage and is leaking, and the list goes on. The
> pictures show lots of dried sludge, dirt, wasp nests, rust and corrosion,
> and general neglect from it sitting untouched since the accident. But
> none of it is serious enough to make me think that it is unrepairable.
> Much of it is the same as what 41CC had two years ago, which has piqued my
> interest in acquiring this project in hopes of getting another sad bunch
> of dirty and beat-up airplane parts back in the air.
>
> It is one of the few Piets I've ever seen with complete instrumentation in
> both cockpits. It also has an interesting toe brake setup.
>
> I don't know... I may make Mr. Furman an offer on the project and see if I
> get something to start working on this winter! In the BPA Newsletter ad
> he's asking $8000 or best offer. I think the amount he's asking is more
> than it's worth, but there is quite a bit of potential there for somebody
> who wants the challenge of a restoration and repair. If he takes the
> offer, sometime in November I'll be pulling a trailer down along the Gulf
> coast and would be happy to stop in and say hello to any Pieters along the
> way either coming or going.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
I would only buy this project if it had a nice color scheme and wheel
pants.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
I'm with you Mike, plus a Garmin 530!
Jack Textor
www.textors.com
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Piet in Camden, AL |
Based on the condition it sounds like it is in, it would be a substantially worthwhile
project only if there was some historical significance to it; i.e. your
father's Piet, or a pre-war Piet, so on and so forth.
Could you restore it? Sure. You throw enough money at anything and you can restore
it. But based on the effort and cost to build a new aircraft, versus the time
and effort to I would assume it would take to rebuild that one, it sounds
like it would not take very long to hit the point of diminishing returns.
Either way, good luck in your decision.
Ryan
Guys, I never said I thought the project was worth $8K. It isn't. I will probably
make the gentleman an offer but it won't be $8K.
Believe me, I would not be going into something like this without eyes wide open,
but what concerns me is that a substantially worthwhile airframe may go under
the chainsaw unless someone with the time and interest sees it as having another
life left in it.
Thanks for all the comments.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
---------------------------------
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Piet in Camden, AL |
Harvey,
That 0.03CN is cruel, I gotta drive out of Alaska thru 3000 miles of lovely
O'Canada this winter and really not looking forward to seeing the diesel
fuel costs along the Alcan, probably +$7.00CN/gal in Watson Lake.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
>
> If you really want this aircraft then make the guy an offer of say
> around 2 thousand and see what happens.I wouldn't go much over three
> though.That's probably what the engine is worth.My two cents worth.Up
> here in Canada,that's worth about 3 cents now eh.HAHAHA!
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Piet in Camden, AL |
AME?
Aviation Medical Examiner???
Interesting!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL
>
> Chances are, it may be, that the chainsaw is where it belongs. The motor
> may not even be worth salvaging. I would take along a good AME if I were
> you. It may cost a few bucks to have him look at it or maybe you know
> one as a friend but it would certainly be worth you life to look at it
> this way.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Piet in Camden, AL |
The Corvair on Mark Langford's KR is probably one of the most engineered and detailed
ones on the planet. Mark has developed some of the ideas and techniques
that are now incorporated into William Wynne's conversion parts and Mark has
heavily test-flown and proven his parts and techniques. His engine is instrumented
to the nth degree and he takes his laptop along on every flight, logging
all pertinent data including EGT, CHTs, intake temp, cowling temp, ambient temp,
fuel flow, and of course the airplane performance data, altitude, speed,
and all the rest of it. Going down to Alabama his KR logged excellent fuel economy
and performance both in "economy cruise" and "max cruise" configurations.
The Corvair is an honest 100 HP engine in most good conversions; probably somewhat
less in the original Bernard Pietenpol conversion with standard auto parts
and the top blower for cooling, but plenty of power for the Piet. Just ask
Hans! ;o) The Corvair on N40WH is a good one as they go, but it would still
need a complete tear-down for inspection and to remove the crankshaft to have
it nitrided. When this one was converted, the nitriding issue had not come
to light and a few cranks have broken as a result.
And Mike Cuy wrote-
>I would only buy this project if it had a nice color scheme and wheel pants.
In fact, it has neither. I don't like the (yellow) paint scheme on it. You know,
some people look at the glass as half-empty; I see it as half-full. And I
am also partial to stray dogs, some of which make far better and more loyal companions
than pure-bred dogs ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 20
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A few months ago I questioned the value of the EAA, particularly my local chapter
citing their lack of interest in anything other than RVs and other metal or
fiberglass planes.
Today I got a rather suprising call from one of the chapter members that I met
a year ago, only one time, who knew of some spruce that someone had and no longer
wanted. He saw the wood while picking through the other stuff this aging
retired glider builder was about to throw out and thought of me and my Pietenpol
project, and then looked me up in the chapter directory and called me about
it. It turns out that this gentleman has 3 rough-cut 2" x 6" x 14' pieces of
sitka spruce that he is giving away. I'm not as excited that I am getting a
ton of free spruce as I am that someone in the chapter actually thought of my
project and went out of their way to see that I was notified of it. Shame on
me for judging the whole chapter on the comments of a few. My attendance has
been so poor since I gave up on them that I can't even remember what the nice
guy that called me looks like. ...but I will make a point of going to future
chapter meetings and thanking him personally.
I now see the value in local chapters and feel that my previous negative comments
were premature. I may find that wood is unusable (but I hear it is quite nice).
Although the majority of the chapter couldn't care less about an old wooden
plane, this act of kindness/generosity, not to mention interest in Pietenpols,
has caused me to reflect on the good fortune of now having a total of 5
people to date who have become great resources, mentors and friends. In mathematical
terms.. 4 > 0 and there is great value in having even 1 local resource
to help you through this process. This has been afforded to me through my EAA
membership. I just felt that having made negative comments in the past I needed
to add something at this point to be fair.
Eating crow,
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140178#140178
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