---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/16/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:51 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL () 2. 03:54 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL () 3. 04:20 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Phillips, Jack) 4. 05:24 AM - Re: Piet in Camden, AL (Roman Bukolt) 5. 06:52 AM - Re: Retraction (Phillips, Jack) 6. 08:15 AM - Re: Retraction, EAA and AOPA (HelsperSew@aol.com) 7. 08:25 AM - Re: Retraction, EAA and AOPA () 8. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Retraction, EAA and AOPA (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM) 9. 09:39 AM - Re: Retraction, EAA and AOPA (HelsperSew@aol.com) 10. 10:28 AM - Re: Retraction, EAA and AOPA (Ryan Mueller) 11. 11:20 AM - Re: Retraction, EAA and AOPA (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 12. 11:38 AM - Re: Retraction, EAA and AOPA (Ryan Mueller) 13. 12:37 PM - Re: Retraction, Control pressure (Skip Gadd) 14. 04:40 PM - PIET FOR SALE (Steve Singleton) 15. 04:43 PM - Re: Retraction, EAA and AOPA (Greg Chapman) 16. 06:35 PM - wing attach fittings (Brian Kraut) 17. 06:47 PM - Re: Retraction, Control pressure (Rcaprd@aol.com) 18. 06:55 PM - Re: wing attach fittings (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL From: AME=aircraft maintenance engineer -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman Bukolt Sent: October 15, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL AME? Aviation Medical Examiner??? Interesting! do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 1:48 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL > > Chances are, it may be, that the chainsaw is where it belongs. The motor > may not even be worth salvaging. I would take along a good AME if I were > you. It may cost a few bucks to have him look at it or maybe you know > one as a friend but it would certainly be worth you life to look at it > this way. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL From: Sorry to hurt you that way but we have been paying ridiculous prices for gas up here long before we got to par and things don't look like they will change either. Everything else is still double the price for Canadian commodities and that's why there is a run on US cities close to our borders. People are fed up paying the prices. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: October 15, 2007 4:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL Harvey, That 0.03CN is cruel, I gotta drive out of Alaska thru 3000 miles of lovely O'Canada this winter and really not looking forward to seeing the diesel fuel costs along the Alcan, probably +$7.00CN/gal in Watson Lake. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:35 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL > > If you really want this aircraft then make the guy an offer of say > around 2 thousand and see what happens.I wouldn't go much over three > though.That's probably what the engine is worth.My two cents worth.Up > here in Canada,that's worth about 3 cents now eh.HAHAHA! > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL From: "Phillips, Jack" Glass half empty, glass half full... I'm an engineer and I see that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga And Mike Cuy wrote- >I would only buy this project if it had a nice color scheme and wheel pants. In fact, it has neither. I don't like the (yellow) paint scheme on it. You know, some people look at the glass as half-empty; I see it as half-full. And I am also partial to stray dogs, some of which make far better and more loyal companions than pure-bred dogs ;o) Oscar Zuniga _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:02 AM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL Roger that and Out! do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 5:50 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL > > AME=aircraft maintenance engineer > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman > Bukolt > Sent: October 15, 2007 5:20 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL > > > > AME? > Aviation Medical Examiner??? > Interesting! > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 1:48 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet in Camden, AL > > >> >> Chances are, it may be, that the chainsaw is where it belongs. The > motor >> may not even be worth salvaging. I would take along a good AME if I > were >> you. It may cost a few bucks to have him look at it or maybe you know >> one as a friend but it would certainly be worth you life to look at it >> this way. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Retraction From: "Phillips, Jack" Some good comments, Glenn. Nearly every chapter of the EAA has some good in it. Sometimes it is well hidden, but it is there. Likewise, the national organization is also doing some good, but it is hard to see it in a purely homebuilding light. As some have pointed out before, the EAA woke up in the early 1990's and realized that their membership, and pilots in general, were getting old. There are any numbers of reasons for it, but they decided to do something about it and created the Young Eagles program. They decided flying was too expensive and supported the LSA initiative (not that it has made things any cheaper). Because if flying goes away for all but airlines and corporate jets, experimental airplanes will quickly become outlaws. So even though they are not actively promoting homebuilding, they are helping it. Anyway, look for the good and you will find it. For all its faults, EAA is still the organization that most closely represents me and my aviation interests. I support AOPA for their lobby efforts, and EAA for everything else. Haven't gotten much useful out of their magazine lately, though. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC Wishing an RV-10 was as much fun to build as a Pietenpol -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Retraction --> A few months ago I questioned the value of the EAA, particularly my local chapter citing their lack of interest in anything other than RVs and other metal or fiberglass planes. Today I got a rather suprising call from one of the chapter members that I met a year ago, only one time, who knew of some spruce that someone had and no longer wanted. He saw the wood while picking through the other stuff this aging retired glider builder was about to throw out and thought of me and my Pietenpol project, and then looked me up in the chapter directory and called me about it. It turns out that this gentleman has 3 rough-cut 2" x 6" x 14' pieces of sitka spruce that he is giving away. I'm not as excited that I am getting a ton of free spruce as I am that someone in the chapter actually thought of my project and went out of their way to see that I was notified of it. Shame on me for judging the whole chapter on the comments of a few. My attendance has been so poor since I gave up on them that I can't even remember what the nice guy that called me looks like. ...but I will make a point of going to future chapter meetings and thanking him personally. I now see the value in local chapters and feel that my previous negative comments were premature. I may find that wood is unusable (but I hear it is quite nice). Although the majority of the chapter couldn't care less about an old wooden plane, this act of kindness/generosity, not to mention interest in Pietenpols, has caused me to reflect on the good fortune of now having a total of 5 people to date who have become great resources, mentors and friends. In mathematical terms.. 4 > 0 and there is great value in having even 1 local resource to help you through this process. This has been afforded to me through my EAA membership. I just felt that having made negative comments in the past I needed to add something at this point to be fair. Eating crow, -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140178#140178 _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:34 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA Guys, I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that we ALL should, as a matter of pragmatism, join either EAA or AOPA simply for the lobbying efforts in Washington. Those politicians (bastards) would take our flying privileges away in a heartbeat if it meant scoring some kind of political points somewhere. They would shut us down completely in the name of "safety" so fast it would make all of our collective heads spin. I recently went on a tour of Europe and Asia, and NEVER saw one single small plane flying in any of the countries I visited. Very eerie feeling around there with the absence of private aviation, especially for me being used to living at the Poplar Grove Airport (C77). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA From: We should all appreciate our collective freedom and the poor buggers that are out there with their ass on the line for us!I think of these people every time I get into my car or my plane.To a few is owed much. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: October 16, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA Guys, I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that we ALL should, as a matter of pragmatism, join either EAA or AOPA simply for the lobbying efforts in Washington. Those politicians (bastards) would take our flying privileges away in a heartbeat if it meant scoring some kind of political points somewhere. They would shut us down completely in the name of "safety" so fast it would make all of our collective heads spin. I recently went on a tour of Europe and Asia, and NEVER saw one single small plane flying in any of the countries I visited. Very eerie feeling around there with the absence of private aviation, especially for me being used to living at the Poplar Grove Airport (C77). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List the =========== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:53 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA As a general rule I don't believe in conspiracies. I do believe that we (general aviation) are subject to attack due to misperceptions. Yes, it is true that poor people cannot afford to fly. This is extrapolated to say that only the rich fly. Obviously not true to those in aviation. Almost everyone I know in aviation is middle class. Instead of having a Bass boat, RV motorcoach, vacation house, Big SUV, New cars, or Big house they decide to own an airplane. We do a lot of work on our old airplanes and often own planes in groups in order to lower our costs. However, the public perception that "only the rich fly" Makes us an easy target for political gain. If they are rich then it will be OK to tax/regulate them. And if they can't afford to do it then so what if a rich guy can't fly, serves him right. Besides this improves our security right? I have seen at least 3 instances where people were using security against terrorism as an excuse to stop someone from doing innocent personal flying. I don't like them flying over my house on a weekend while I am BBQing. Not really a conspiricy but we are easy targets and noone wants to defend us unless prodded. ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule@bell.ca Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA > We should all appreciate our collective freedom and the poor buggers > that are out there with their ass on the line for us!I think of these > people every time I get into my car or my plane.To a few is owed much. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > HelsperSew@aol.com > Sent: October 16, 2007 11:15 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA > > > > Guys, > > > > I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that we ALL should, as a matter > of pragmatism, join either EAA or AOPA simply for the lobbying efforts > in Washington. Those politicians (bastards) would take our flying > privileges away in a heartbeat if it meant scoring some kind of > political points somewhere. They would shut us down completely in the > name of "safety" so fast it would make all of our collective heads > spin.I recently went on a tour of Europe and Asia, and NEVER saw > one single > small plane flying in any of the countries I visited. Very eerie > feeling around there with the absence of private aviation, especially > for me being used to living at the Poplar Grove Airport (C77). > > > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > the > =========== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:22 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA Yea, and the one that takes the cake of them all, is Mayor Daley plowing up Meigs field in the middle of the night, because it "could be a launching pad" for those pesky little terrorist planes filled with TNT that would plow into all the downtown buildings. I guess the terrorists would be too stupid to figure out that they could easily make it to Chicago taking off from one of the many other surrounding airports. In addition, he is still lobbying FAA to create one of those idiotic "no fly zones" like they have over Disney World. I wonder how much $ was slipped into reelection campaign funds in order to get that one through! Follow the money! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:22 AM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA My wife and I have been living in Chicago for about 10 months now (looking to leave ASAP), and it fills me with rancour any time I ride along the lakefront bike path south of Navy Pier. I was fortunate enough to make it down to the city about a month after he plowed it up to pay my last respects. I was never a Daley fan before that; "despise" would be a polite term for what I feel about him now. I like Chicago, as big cities go, but the city government is absolutely pathetic, with the Mayor leading them all. In order to provide something topical to this post: how's about this question. When you have a fuselage fuel tank only, how noticeable are the changes in control pressure as you burn fuel off? Minor annoyance, or something one might want to consider installing a simple elevator trim setup for to reduce the level of annoyance? Ryan HelsperSew@aol.com wrote: Yea, and the one that takes the cake of them all, is Mayor Daley plowing up Meigs field in the middle of the night, because it "could be a launching pad" for those pesky little terrorist planes filled with TNT that would plow into all the downtown buildings. I guess the terrorists would be too stupid to figure out that they could easily make it to Chicago taking off from one of the many other surrounding airports. In addition, he is still lobbying FAA to create one of those idiotic "no fly zones" like they have over Disney World. I wonder how much $ was slipped into reelection campaign funds in order to get that one through! Follow the money! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:01 AM PST US From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA Ditto's from a USMC harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } We should all appreciate our collective freedom and the poor buggers that are out there with their ass on the line for us!I think of these people every time I get into my car or my plane.To a few is owed much. --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: October 16, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA Guys, I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that we ALL should, as a matter of pragmatism, join either EAA or AOPA simply for the lobbying efforts in Washington. Those politicians (bastards) would take our flying privileges away in a heartbeat if it meant scoring some kind of political points somewhere. They would shut us down completely in the name of "safety" so fast it would make all of our collective heads spin. I recently went on a tour of Europe and Asia, and NEVER saw one single small plane flying in any of the countries I visited. Very eerie feeling around there with the absence of private aviation, especially for me being used to living at the Poplar Grove Airport (C77). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. --------------------------------- Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:56 AM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA Likewise, from a no longer active USMC grunt. "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" wrote: Ditto's from a USMC harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } We should all appreciate our collective freedom and the poor buggers that are out there with their ass on the line for us!I think of these people every time I get into my car or my plane.To a few is owed much. --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com Sent: October 16, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA Guys, I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that we ALL should, as a matter of pragmatism, join either EAA or AOPA simply for the lobbying efforts in Washington. Those politicians (bastards) would take our flying privileges away in a heartbeat if it meant scoring some kind of political points somewhere. They would shut us down completely in the name of "safety" so fast it would make all of our collective heads spin. I recently went on a tour of Europe and Asia, and NEVER saw one single small plane flying in any of the countries I visited. Very eerie feeling around there with the absence of private aviation, especially for me being used to living at the Poplar Grove Airport (C77). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. --------------------------------- Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:39 PM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, Control pressure Ryan, Felix the GN-1 has only a fuse tank(J3 cub tank). Full tank down to about 9 gallons, slight back pressure. From there to about 6.5 gallons is the sweet spot, finger tip control. Less than 6 gallons, forward pressure is needed, at about 3 or 4 gallons I need 1 to 2 lbs pressure. I weigh 155 lbs. The balance would change with a heavier or lighter pilot. I plan to have an elevator trim on the Piet I'm building, but will probably not add one to Felix. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller In order to provide something topical to this post: how's about this question. When you have a fuselage fuel tank only, how noticeable are the changes in control pressure as you burn fuel off? Minor annoyance, or something one might want to consider installing a simple elevator trim setup for to reduce the level of annoyance? Ryan ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:21 PM PST US From: "Steve Singleton" Subject: Pietenpol-List: PIET FOR SALE Hi everyone. Does anybody know anything about the Piet project for sale in Berthoud CO. Steve Singleton ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:47 PM PST US From: Greg Chapman Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, EAA and AOPA Well, if this can add to the fire let it: because of irresponsible actions like the Meigs Invasion, the mayor has discovered the city's budget is in the red for $293 million next year. My home taxes, already over-inflated in this artificially valued housing market, are expected to rise a substantial 15%. Yeah, my love for Da Mayor is definitely in the can. Greg Ryan Mueller wrote: > My wife and I have been living in Chicago for about 10 months now > (looking to leave ASAP), and it fills me with rancour any time I ride > along the lakefront bike path south of Navy Pier. I was fortunate enough > to make it down to the city about a month after he plowed it up to pay > my last respects. > > I was never a Daley fan before that; "despise" would be a polite term > for what I feel about him now. I like Chicago, as big cities go, but the > city government is absolutely pathetic, with the Mayor leading them all. > > In order to provide something topical to this post: how's about this > question. When you have a fuselage fuel tank only, how noticeable are > the changes in control pressure as you burn fuel off? Minor annoyance, > or something one might want to consider installing a simple elevator > trim setup for to reduce the level of annoyance? > > Ryan > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:37 PM PST US From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing attach fittings The GN-1 plans show the wing attach fittings being .065" thick 4130 steel. There is a reinforcing washer welded on the end of the fitting where the attach bolt goes. The plans state that the washer gets welded on the wing spar end fittings only, not the fittings that bolt to the center section. Other than the tiny bit of work involved and the miniscule amount of weight, can anyone see any conceivable reason for not putting the washers on the center section fittings also? How is it done on the regular Pietenpol wing? I only have the GN-1 plans and the Sky Scout plans, not the regular Piet plans. I was also going to weld a reinforcing piece on the bottom fitting on the center section spars where they attach to the jury struts. There is not a lot of material around those bolts and there is a good bit of load o those tabs. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:44 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Retraction, Control pressure In a message dated 10/16/2007 2:39:20 PM Central Daylight Time, skipgadd@earthlink.net writes: Ryan, Felix the GN-1 has only a fuse tank(J3 cub tank). Full tank down to about 9 gallons, slight back pressure. From there to about 6.5 gallons is the sweet spot, finger tip control. Less than 6 gallons, forward pressure is needed, a t about 3 or 4 gallons I need 1 to 2 lbs pressure. I weigh 155 lbs. The balance would change with a heavier or lighter pilot. I plan to have an elevator trim on the Piet I'm building, but will probably not add one to Felix. Skip Skip, Sounds like you've got the C of G dialed in. I haven't got any type of pitch trim either, and I don't see it as any trouble at all...even though so me slight back pressure is needed when the cowl tank, and especially the 1 gal smoke tank is full. Most of my flying seems to be in thermals and somewhat windy conditions, so I rarely get to check the actual trim condition. In the past week, I've introduced three different passengers to the 'Wonderful World of Pietenpols', and when I gave them the stick, they were h unting all over the sky for Straight and Level...the first two (last wed & thurs) were near ideal conditions. This evening the wind was 20=BA left crosswind @ 18 - 24. All three were absolutely thrilled to be able to fly an open cockpit, stick & rudder plane !! What a Hoot to be able to give people that opportun ity !! I have, and always will continue to support the EAA, AOPA, and most recently the AAA, for the obvious reasons stated in previous posts. Chuck G. NX770CG 'From Trees & Rags, to Stick & Rudder - Pietenpols are Forever !!' ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:42 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing attach fittings In a message dated 10/16/2007 8:36:44 PM Central Daylight Time, brian.kraut@engalt.com writes: Other than the tiny bit of work involved and the miniscule amount of weight, can anyone see any conceivable reason for not putting the washers on the center section fittings also? I've never seen those plans, but it may be that it changes the molecular structure of the steel. I think that's the reason that washers are braized on both ends of the lift struts of the Pietenpol, although the wall thickness is much less than .065" Chuck G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.