---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/24/07: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:01 AM - Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions () 2. 05:30 AM - Re: Stuck on fuselage joining dimensions (Ryan Michals) 3. 06:01 AM - Prop drawing (santiago morete) 4. 06:15 AM - Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions (Skip Gadd) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions (jimd) 6. 08:54 AM - Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions (jimd) 7. 12:48 PM - Stabilizer Gussets (Bill Church) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions From: Boy you can really see the resemblance to the Jenny there in that picture.The Jenny was the plane that Bernard Pietenpol started with. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd Sent: October 23, 2007 7:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions Hi, There was some discussion on the list of the Grega gn-1 biplane that was for sale on Barnstormers recently. I bought it and managed to get it home and have some questions as a new builder. First some background; I found it is pretty much a plans-built Grega GN-1 with steel tube fuselage and a larger/heavier engine than is typical. The biplane part is from the St. Croix/Chad Willie "Aeriel Pietenpol" plans, which came with the plane and now make more sense, as essentially they are add on wings for a regular Pietenpol, along with some stuts and wires. I did manage to find a similar plane, in that it has same rigging and basic configuration. (Its in St. Louis at a museum.. seems odd to be building something others put in museums..). http://www.airandspacemuseum.org/photos%20Aug%2007/aPietenpol.jpg Anyway to my questions; There were two Grega specific items I wondered about; First, it has an .026 aircraft aluminum leading edge, which is attached with lots of brads, but not glued. I recall the Grega plans specify that kind of leading edge, but should it be glued? From moving it is coming kind of loose, it would be easy to retack it or to glue it, but wondered what the opinions would be on this. Second, the passenger seat base is supported by a couple diagonal steel tubes that are too close to the sides of the fuselage for me to comfortably fit my legs in. Is there any way to know if they are load bearing and their design is key to safety, they look like they could easily be cut/replaced with the same weight tubes arched a bit to make for more leg room. Any tips on creating the leading edge? Think it would be odd to have one wing skinned in wood and one in aluminum, and suspect I will end up going aluminum to match the one that is done. While by bottom Aeriel/St. Croix wing is pretty well built, it doesn't have the leading edge spar built. I have head bannister railing is commonly used, but would like more information, like .. if you use aluminum for a leading edge, and you use a bannister railing for the spar, is it supposed to support the leading edge.. meaning having same profile.. and would it then be bradded and/or glued (T-88 I presume.) This list is one of the things that helped convince me to go for the plane, in that I saw a lot of good information flowing back and forth. I am in the EAA and it is a great place to be to build high perf metal kit planes, or composite ones, but they were kind of light on folks interested in wood, steel tube and fabric, though there are a lot of good guys there. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141388#141388 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p19_132.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stuck on fuselage joining dimensions From: "Ryan Michals" Thanks for the help Dick and Ben. So far I have used the dimensions at the top and bottom of the pilots, seat brought the tail together, and let everything else fall into place, then squared things up. My dimensions are just over an inch or so of the prints. I haven't glued anything yet so nothing's final. I was concerned about adding any more stress into the longerons than needed to be there. Thanks again, Ryan Michals NXxxxCC Clover Clipper *Message sent from a mobile device. -----Original Message----- From: "Ben Charvet" Sent: 10/22/2007 6:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stuck on fuselage joining dimensions I just used the dimensions on the original plans at each station. Seemed to work out fine Ben Ryan Michals wrote: > > I am building a standard width, long "improved" Piet. The sup. Plans don't have measurements for the width of the joined fuselage sides, in particular, the empennage. What has everyone else done? > > > Ryan Michals > NXxxxCC > Clover Clipper > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:05 AM PST US From: santiago morete Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop drawing Hello everyone! I will carve a prop for a model A (maybe a 76 x42), but firstly I need to find some drawings. If someone has for sale please let me know. I really like an antique look prop, but any is wellcome. Remember, I'm in Argentina (where some brave men have already sent things for me, so it shouldn't be a problem : ) Saludos! Santiago --------------------------------- Los referentes ms importantes en compra/venta de autos se juntaron: Demotores y Yahoo!.Ahora comprar o vender tu auto es ms fcil. Visit http://ar.autos.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:20 AM PST US From: "Skip Gadd" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions Jim, My Grega plans call out .013 alum secured with 20 ga. 3/4" nails. Drawing No. 800-20. Skip > Anyway to my questions; > First, it has an > .026 aircraft aluminum leading edge, which is attached with lots of > brads, but not glued. I recall the Grega plans specify that kind of > leading edge, but should it be glued? From moving it is coming kind of > loose, it would be easy to retack it or to glue it, but wondered what > the opinions would be on this. > > Thanks, > > Jim ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions From: "jimd" Thanks for the info. Bet those brads I mentioned are really the same nails you refer to. They are a little loose, but I think they will tighten back up.. suspect the wood went from somewhere normal to Arizona where the wings were built and then shrank a little. I am in Missouri, where the humidity varies a bit, but is much more humid than AZ. Will tap them back in and see. For the lower wing, the one without the leading edge, I am leaning toward doing it exactly the same way, so will have to figure out how to shape and mount the leading edge wood spar. Will look at the Aeriel plans and see what they specify, probably talk to a DAR before going very far. Thanks again, Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141489#141489 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions From: "jimd" Some pics of the bipe. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141519#141519 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p11_682.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p16_108.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p7_177.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets From: "Bill Church" Well, after a period of about a year and a half of zero building activity, I have finally gotten back to building my Pietenpol! And I must say, it does feel good to be back at it. As I was heading out to the garage at 10:00 last night, my wife said to me "Are you going out to play?". I am presently tackling the empennage - more specifically, the horizontal stabilizer, and last night (at midnight) I finished cutting the various pieces, and began to notch the areas where the 1/8" plywood gussets go. This appears at first glance to be a simple structure, but after studying the plans for a bit, becomes a little bit complicated. The "complicated" part is that the various cross-sections of the leading edge, trailing edge, main beam and center beam don't match dimensionally at the points where they intersect (and get covered with gussets). After a sufficient amount of head scratching time I finally realized that some of the ends would just need to be tapered at the gusset areas to bring the mating surfaces flush. Anyway, today, at lunch I was browsing the web, looking at pictures of how others had finished this part of their planes, and I got a little worried, as all the photos I found showed a different construction than what I had just finished cutting. The photos I found all showed the spruce joints mitered, and the gussets sitting inside the spruce lip around the perimeter of the stab, but I had cut my spruce joints with butt joints, and my gussets are all cut to sit flush with the outside perimeter of the stab (whereby the "lip" of spruce is trimmed away at the gusset locations). Before panic set in, I referred to the plans (what a crazy idea). My pulse immediately slowed back to normal, as the plans showed exactly what I had done last night. A little further investigation turned up a few photos showing that others had actually "built to the plans". One of those whose photos I found that built to the plans was Walt Evans, and it must have worked just fine, since we all know that his plane flies very well, thank-you. With my pulse back to normal I, too, can say "Ain't life grand!". Whew. Bill C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.