Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Re: Stabilizer Gussets ()
2. 06:07 AM - Re: Stabilizer Gussets (Ryan Mueller)
3. 09:06 AM - Re: Stabilizer Gussets (Bill Church)
4. 09:08 AM - Re: Stabilizer Gussets (Bill Church)
5. 09:42 AM - Re: Stabilizer Gussets (Dave Abramson)
6. 12:27 PM - Fw: : When Pilots Retire (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
7. 02:15 PM - Re: Stabilizer Gussets (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
8. 02:52 PM - Re: Stabilizer Gussets (walt evans)
9. 03:43 PM - Would like to join your discussion group (mmcfi@juno.com)
10. 04:16 PM - Re: Would like to join your discussion group (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
11. 04:33 PM - Re: Piet biplane (jimd)
12. 05:15 PM - Re: Would like to join your discussion group (Skip Gadd)
13. 05:44 PM - Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions (skellytownflyer)
14. 08:24 PM - Re: Would like to join your discussion group (Dick Navratil)
15. 11:37 PM - New Pietenpol Builder (Richard Baker)
Message 1
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Subject: | Stabilizer Gussets |
It might not be a bad idea to check the pictures and previous letters on
this web page before you do anything in the future.It will slow things
down but it will give you a better idea of what's been done before.Sort
of like a highway in the sky.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: October 24, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Well, after a period of about a year and a half of zero building
activity, I have finally gotten back to building my Pietenpol! And I
must say, it does feel good to be back at it. As I was heading out to
the garage at 10:00 last night, my wife said to me "Are you going out to
play?".
I am presently tackling the empennage - more specifically, the
horizontal stabilizer, and last night (at midnight) I finished cutting
the various pieces, and began to notch the areas where the 1/8" plywood
gussets go. This appears at first glance to be a simple structure, but
after studying the plans for a bit, becomes a little bit complicated.
The "complicated" part is that the various cross-sections of the leading
edge, trailing edge, main beam and center beam don't match dimensionally
at the points where they intersect (and get covered with gussets). After
a sufficient amount of head scratching time I finally realized that some
of the ends would just need to be tapered at the gusset areas to bring
the mating surfaces flush. Anyway, today, at lunch I was browsing the
web, looking at pictures of how others had finished this part of their
planes, and I got a little worried, as all the photos I found showed a
different construction than what I had just finished cutting. The photos
I found all showed the spruce joints mitered, and the gussets sitting
inside the spruce lip around the perimeter of the stab, but I had cut my
spruce joints with butt joints, and my gussets are all cut to sit flush
with the outside perimeter of the stab (whereby the "lip" of spruce is
trimmed away at the gusset locations).
Before panic set in, I referred to the plans (what a crazy idea). My
pulse immediately slowed back to normal, as the plans showed exactly
what I had done last night. A little further investigation turned up a
few photos showing that others had actually "built to the plans". One of
those whose photos I found that built to the plans was Walt Evans, and
it must have worked just fine, since we all know that his plane flies
very well, thank-you. With my pulse back to normal I, too, can say
"Ain't life grand!". Whew.
Bill C.
Message 2
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Subject: | Stabilizer Gussets |
The Matronics List Archive is also very useful for all those questions that have
been asked before. I was 3/4 of the way through typing a question about the
different beams in the empennage and where they go when I thought I had better
check the archive first, and sure enough I found that exact question had been
asked already.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html
Pick the Piet list, and I particularly like the 3 view framed method of seeing
your results. Makes it very easy to go through all the messages and not lose your
place.
Also, a careful reading of the instructions can help you find many more pertinent
results than just typing in your search. For example, searching for "short
fuselage corvair" will look for that exact quote with the words in that order,
whereas a search for "short fuselage & corvair" will instead find all messages
that have the phrase "short fuselage" and the word "corvair" somewhere in the
message.
I know this because I didn't initially read the search instructions, and wasn't
getting as many good results. A slight modification of my method made an already
useful resource just that much better.
Ryan
harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } It might
not be a bad idea to check the pictures and previous letters on this web page
before you do anything in the future.It will slow things down but it will give
you a better idea of whats been done before.Sort of like a highway in the
sky.
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: October 24, 2007 3:43 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Well, after a period of about a year and a half of zero building activity,
I have finally gotten back to building my Pietenpol! And I must say, it does feel
good to be back at it. As I was heading out to the garage at 10:00 last night,
my wife said to me "Are you going out to play?".
I am presently tackling the empennage - more specifically, the horizontal stabilizer,
and last night (at midnight) I finished cutting the various pieces,
and began to notch the areas where the 1/8" plywood gussets go. This appears
at first glance to be a simple structure, but after studying the plans for a bit,
becomes a little bit complicated. The "complicated" part is that the various
cross-sections of the leading edge, trailing edge, main beam and center beam
don't match dimensionally at the points where they intersect (and get covered
with gussets). After a sufficient amount of head scratching time I finally realized
that some of the ends would just need to be tapered at the gusset areas
to bring the mating surfaces flush. Anyway, today, at lunch I was browsing the
web, looking at pictures of how others had finished this part of their planes,
and I got a little worried, as all the photos I found showed a different construction
than what I had just finished cutting.
The photos I found all showed the spruce joints mitered, and the gussets sitting
inside the spruce lip around the perimeter of the stab, but I had cut my spruce
joints with butt joints, and my gussets are all cut to sit flush with the
outside perimeter of the stab (whereby the "lip" of spruce is trimmed away at
the gusset locations).
Before panic set in, I referred to the plans (what a crazy idea). My pulse
immediately slowed back to normal, as the plans showed exactly what I had done
last night. A little further investigation turned up a few photos showing that
others had actually "built to the plans". One of those whose photos I found
that built to the plans was Walt Evans, and it must have worked just fine, since
we all know that his plane flies very well, thank-you. With my pulse back to
normal I, too, can say "Ain't life grand!". Whew.
Bill C.
__________________________________________________
Message 3
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Subject: | Stabilizer Gussets |
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Ryan (and anyone else confused by my (NOT) eloquent description),
Attached are a few pics to help explain:
01BHPdwg2clip.jpg is a detail from the plans, showing the leading edge
and main beam running through, and the side pieces butting up against
these pieces (not a mitered corner). The gussets are shown extending to
the outside edges of the structure - the spruce "lip" would need to be
trimmed away where the gussets lie.
02WEgusset.jpg is a photo of Walt Evans' construction, which appears to
be exactly as per plans.
03JMgusset.jpg is a photo of Jim Markle's construction, which
incorporates the mitered spruce joints, and the gussets sitting inside
the spruce lip.
Both methods work equally well. It just seems that most of the photos
out there on the net are of the mitered corner version, like Jim's,
rather than the BHP plans version, like Walt's.
Bill C.
PS: anyone on the list that only gets the digest version (no
attachments) can view the photos by going to the following site:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=2ed4da73b54366540c0
d90
5c0d06a3a6
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Michals [mailto:aircamperace@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Bill,
Could you post an example pic of the "plans way" and the other way? It
sounds confusing.
Thank you,
Ryan Michals
NXxxxCC
Clover Clipper
Message 4
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Subject: | Stabilizer Gussets |
Harvey,
What do you think I've been doing for the past year and a half of not
building??? If I start building any slower, I'll be taking things apart.
just kidding...
Actually, what happened was that when I first received my plans, I
studied them, then started redrawing them using CAD (exactly as drawn by
Orrin Hoopman). When the time came to start building again, I plotted
out the drawing I had done a few years ago, and plopped it down on my
building board, and used it to start cutting my parts. I was perfectly
satisfied with my progress until I happened to look at a few photos of
work done by others, and upon seeing differences compared to what I had
done, I had a moment of panic. A quick check back to the plans revealed
that all was okay - I was building to the plans - others had chosen to
use a different technique.
I guess my point was that photos of other's work can be very helpful,
but they don't always show things the way they are in the plans - which
is fine. In fact, quite often, the photos may show an improved method.
As far as visual appearance goes, personally, I like the looks of the
modified gusset attachment with mitered joints, but for ease of
construction, the plans method is much easier. In the end, this
beautiful woodwork all gets covered up anyway.
Bill C
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
harvey.rule@bell.ca
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
It might not be a bad idea to check the pictures and previous letters on
this web page before you do anything in the future.It will slow things
down but it will give you a better idea of what's been done before.Sort
of like a highway in the sky.
Message 5
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Subject: | Stabilizer Gussets |
Hello All. This is where "interpretation" comes in. That is why Pietenpols
are so fun! There are no 2 exactly alike! Kind of like people..
Dave
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Harvey,
What do you think I've been doing for the past year and a half of not
building??? If I start building any slower, I'll be taking things apart.
just kidding...
Actually, what happened was that when I first received my plans, I studied
them, then started redrawing them using CAD (exactly as drawn by Orrin
Hoopman). When the time came to start building again, I plotted out the
drawing I had done a few years ago, and plopped it down on my building
board, and used it to start cutting my parts. I was perfectly satisfied with
my progress until I happened to look at a few photos of work done by others,
and upon seeing differences compared to what I had done, I had a moment of
panic. A quick check back to the plans revealed that all was okay - I was
building to the plans - others had chosen to use a different technique.
I guess my point was that photos of other's work can be very helpful, but
they don't always show things the way they are in the plans - which is fine.
In fact, quite often, the photos may show an improved method. As far as
visual appearance goes, personally, I like the looks of the modified gusset
attachment with mitered joints, but for ease of construction, the plans
method is much easier. In the end, this beautiful woodwork all gets covered
up anyway.
Bill C
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
harvey.rule@bell.ca
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
It might not be a bad idea to check the pictures and previous letters on
this web page before you do anything in the future.It will slow things down
but it will give you a better idea of what's been done before.Sort of like a
highway in the sky.
Message 6
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Subject: | Fwd: : When Pilots Retire |
Message 7
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Subject: | Stabilizer Gussets |
Ditto's......that why I use my glass eye on the left and my calibrated eye on the
right!
Village idiot!
Dave Abramson <davea@symbolicdisplays.com> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
Hello All This is where interpretation comes in That is why Pietenpols
are so fun! There are no 2 exactly alike! Kind of like people.
Dave
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Harvey,
What do you think I've been doing for the past year and a half of not building???
If I start building any slower, I'll be taking things apart.
just kidding...
Actually, what happened was that when I first received my plans, I studied them,
then started redrawing them using CAD (exactly as drawn by Orrin Hoopman).
When the time came to start building again, I plotted out the drawing I had done
a few years ago, and plopped it down on my building board, and used it to
start cutting my parts. I was perfectly satisfied with my progress until I happened
to look at a few photos of work done by others, and upon seeing differences
compared to what I had done, I had a moment of panic. A quick check back to
the plans revealed that all was okay - I was building to the plans - others
had chosen to use a different technique.
I guess my point was that photos of other's work can be very helpful, but they
don't always show things the way they are in the plans - which is fine. In fact,
quite often, the photos may show an improved method. As far as visual appearance
goes, personally, I like the looks of the modified gusset attachment with
mitered joints, but for ease of construction, the plans method is much easier.
In the end, this beautiful woodwork all gets covered up anyway.
Bill C
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule@bell.ca
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
It might not be a bad idea to check the pictures and previous letters on this
web page before you do anything in the future.It will slow things down but it
will give you a better idea of whats been done before.Sort of like a highway
in the sky.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
__________________________________________________
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Stabilizer Gussets |
Just to remind that my Piet was made 99.99999% to the prints. I'm a "to the
prints" guy.
That pic was of my tail, just before I pulled out the nails and started to
bevel the trailing edge with a hand plane to get the desired results.
"walt 100" is the rough,,,the rest are the finished products. And It's
flying great.
Make it to the plans. Don't change the plans.
Why would you change the plans?
Not one piece of his plans/design is deficient.
What an insult to change it.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably
worth it
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Ryan (and anyone else confused by my (NOT) eloquent description),
Attached are a few pics to help explain:
01BHPdwg2clip.jpg is a detail from the plans, showing the leading edge
and main beam running through, and the side pieces butting up against
these pieces (not a mitered corner). The gussets are shown extending to
the outside edges of the structure - the spruce "lip" would need to be
trimmed away where the gussets lie.
02WEgusset.jpg is a photo of Walt Evans' construction, which appears to
be exactly as per plans.
03JMgusset.jpg is a photo of Jim Markle's construction, which
incorporates the mitered spruce joints, and the gussets sitting inside
the spruce lip.
Both methods work equally well. It just seems that most of the photos
out there on the net are of the mitered corner version, like Jim's,
rather than the BHP plans version, like Walt's.
Bill C.
PS: anyone on the list that only gets the digest version (no
attachments) can view the photos by going to the following site:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=2ed4da73b54366540c0d90
5c0d06a3a6
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Michals [mailto:aircamperace@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Bill,
Could you post an example pic of the "plans way" and the other way? It
sounds confusing.
Thank you,
Ryan Michals
NXxxxCC
Clover Clipper
Message 9
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Subject: | Would like to join your discussion group |
Hello all,
I have a friend that put the crazy idea into my head that I should bu
ild an airplane! Problem is that I cannot get rid of the thought. Luck
ily I stumbled across the Air Camper and now I am nibbling.... I know
you all probally get this all the time, but before I rush out and buy ev
erything in sight that I might read about or stumble across, (possibly e
nding my marriage), Where is a good place to start?
I would love to see a Piet up close and make sure this is really what
I want to do. If there are any in the Denver area I would love to talk
to you and arrainge some time to see a Piet up close and let you set th
e hook. If not, I can travel to you given some time. I am thinking I w
ould like to build a 'long version' with a corvair engine.
Thanks for any input. I have loved reading your posts for the last l
ittle while and find them very informative. I am working through the ar
chives slowly.
Future Low and Slow Boy
Mark
P.S. Do you get bugs in your teeth flying the Piet? :)
_____________________________________________________________
Discount Online Trading - Click Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iiejgTb6M8m0KEZ9PuAr6Sx
pms437CTymCfgUy9XNOAEpdAZQ/
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Would like to join your discussion group |
I know you all probably get this all the time, but before I rush out and buy everything
in sight that I might read about or stumble across, (possibly ending
my marriage), Where is a good place to start?
Tough question!....I would have to say wife and plane can be an oxymoron.
Village idiot!
__________________________________________________
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Piet biplane |
Hi,
The biplane conversion doesn't change the top wing much, far as I can tell. The
St. Croix/Aeriel plans essentially add a lower wing that attaches where the lift
struts would, the low wing has ailerons that are actuated by rods from the
high wings ailerons. Not positive without looking again, but I think the struts
from the end of the lower wings to the upper ones attach at the same point
as the lift struts normally would.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141840#141840
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/apietenpol_632.jpg
Message 12
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Subject: | Would like to join your discussion group |
Mark,
Welcome to the list.
Skip
>P.S. Do you get bugs in your teeth flying the Piet? :)
>Only if you smile ;o)
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions |
I understand the brads pulling loose on the wing wrap.I installed the .020 aluminum
leading edge wrap I got from DJ on these wings after pre-bending them over
a small pipe.And the still were really tough to get pulled down.I ended up using
very small wood screws-#2 maybe? and a dab of wood glue on each one to keep
them down.have the wings all ready to cover now and hoping to get back on the
project in about a month.been a long busy summer.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141849#141849
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Would like to join your discussion group |
Welcome Mark
The first place to start is ordering a set of plans from Donald
Pietenpol. You dont know what engine you are using yet, so get the
supplement for the Corvair with the long fuselage plan. Also, order the
three piece wing plan. The plans are fairly basic, sit down and digest
them. Some would say to start by building wing ribs. I think your
first parts should be the tail feathers to give you more to look at to
start with. The parts to build them arent very expensive.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: mmcfi@juno.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Would like to join your discussion group
Hello all,
I have a friend that put the crazy idea into my head that I should
build an airplane! Problem is that I cannot get rid of the thought.
Luckily I stumbled across the Air Camper and now I am nibbling.... I
know you all probally get this all the time, but before I rush out and
buy everything in sight that I might read about or stumble across,
(possibly ending my marriage), Where is a good place to start?
I would love to see a Piet up close and make sure this is really
what I want to do. If there are any in the Denver area I would love to
talk to you and arrainge some time to see a Piet up close and let you
set the hook. If not, I can travel to you given some time. I am
thinking I would like to build a 'long version' with a corvair engine.
Thanks for any input. I have loved reading your posts for the last
little while and find them very informative. I am working through the
archives slowly.
Future Low and Slow Boy
Mark
P.S. Do you get bugs in your teeth flying the Piet? :)
_____________________________________________________________
Discount Online Trading - Click Now!
Message 15
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Subject: | New Pietenpol Builder |
I too am about to begin construction for the second time. I ordered
plans
last year and purchased all of the spruce from AS&S. I live in Oregon
and
Massachusetts, spending about half the year in each location. I was
going to
build in Oregon and had the spruce shipped there. The summer of 2006
found
me building a million gussets and a jig for the wing ribs. It sure was a
beauty (+-1/32=94.) I had also built a real nice rack to store all of
the
precut spruce. I was all ready to go this past summer. In our absence
over
last winter it seems that someone entered my workshop and made the
nicest
bookcase out of what was to be the main wing spar and decided that all
those
nice smaller pieces of wood would make ideal tinder for the wood stove.
So,
it=92s $1400, 00 down the tubes. The worst thing is that my jig is gone.
I have just reordered more spruce to be shipped to Massachusetts. We
live in
a senior community and have a most wonderful workshop as many residents
brought their workshops from home. I will post some pictures of the shop
soon. I will continue to build anything that will fit in the Mooney out
in
Oregon and schlep parts across country. (Does anyone have plans for a 10
section wing?)
So, I guess my first contribution to the builder community is to keep an
eye
on your wood! I am going to keep this batch under the bed and hope that
Jane
doesn=92t notice. Once I do get started in earnest I will post my
builders log
and photos on my web site at www.aerovisiontech.com
Dick Baker
www.aerovisiontech.com
10/24/2007
2:31 PM
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