Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:13 AM - Re: Planer Question (Jack T. Textor)
2. 03:13 AM - Re: Planer Question (HelsperSew@aol.com)
3. 05:14 AM - Re: Stabilizer Gussets ()
4. 06:46 AM - Re: Planer Question (Brian Kraut)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: Planer Question (Glenn Thomas)
6. 07:02 AM - Re: Planer Question (Glenn Thomas)
7. 07:10 AM - Re: Planer Question (del magsam)
8. 07:49 AM - Re: Planer Question (del magsam)
9. 10:26 AM - Re: Planer Question (Eric Williams)
10. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions (Barry Davis)
11. 03:33 PM - Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions (jimd)
12. 04:24 PM - Landing Gear (Peter W Johnson)
13. 05:37 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Gordon Bowen)
14. 07:20 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Rcaprd@aol.com)
15. 10:01 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Peter W Johnson)
Message 1
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Hi Glenn,
How have you been? I concur with all the other comments and have
another thought. Wood has many forces that get unleashed after cutting.
I had a beautiful piece of spruce 2"x8"x15', strait tight grain. About
a week after ripping into 1 1/2" strips for my longerons, they warped so
badly that I wasn't comfortable using them. I clamped them together
hoping they would straighten out, but no luck. I guess my point is, rip
them and see what you have, then go from there. Although it may be
easier to purchase wood finished, I did get a lot of satisfaction
milling it myself. Good luck!
Jack Textor
www.textors.com
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Planer Question |
Glenn,
Your idea of using a "sled" is correct for getting the warp out of the
boards by running it through the planer that way. I would recommend getting a
planer. I have used mine many many times to make numerable parts. Also, I would
recommend to anyone ordering the "bargain bag" of spruce that ACS and Wicks
offers. Very cheap and you can get many smaller parts out of it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 3
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Subject: | Stabilizer Gussets |
I'm just given ya a hard time.I can't build anything and I envy you guys
who can, no matter how long it takes ya!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: October 25, 2007 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
Harvey,
What do you think I've been doing for the past year and a half of not
building??? If I start building any slower, I'll be taking things apart.
just kidding...
Actually, what happened was that when I first received my plans, I
studied them, then started redrawing them using CAD (exactly as drawn by
Orrin Hoopman). When the time came to start building again, I plotted
out the drawing I had done a few years ago, and plopped it down on my
building board, and used it to start cutting my parts. I was perfectly
satisfied with my progress until I happened to look at a few photos of
work done by others, and upon seeing differences compared to what I had
done, I had a moment of panic. A quick check back to the plans revealed
that all was okay - I was building to the plans - others had chosen to
use a different technique.
I guess my point was that photos of other's work can be very helpful,
but they don't always show things the way they are in the plans - which
is fine. In fact, quite often, the photos may show an improved method.
As far as visual appearance goes, personally, I like the looks of the
modified gusset attachment with mitered joints, but for ease of
construction, the plans method is much easier. In the end, this
beautiful woodwork all gets covered up anyway.
Bill C
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
harvey.rule@bell.ca
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer Gussets
It might not be a bad idea to check the pictures and previous letters on
this web page before you do anything in the future.It will slow things
down but it will give you a better idea of what's been done before.Sort
of like a highway in the sky.
Message 4
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I have a long straight board with clamps on it that I use for making tapered
spars. I also have a 10' long aluminum channel that I can clamp down to my
saw to make an extra long rip fence. With a setup like that you can clamp a
weird twisted piece of wood to the flat straight board and run it through
the saw to get one side perfectly straight and flat. Put that side down
through the planer and you will wind up with two parallel sides and can get
the other two sides done on the table saw. You can get away without the
long rip fence, but it makes it a lot easier for cutting long boards. I
also clamp pieces of plywood on the bottom of the long fence and get nice
long infeed and outfeed tables. It is hard to keep a long board flat on a
short table and rip fence unless you have two people doing it.
I love my planer and they are not that expensive. I made my son a very nice
water bed using cheap Home Depot 2 X 8s and getting the sides smooth and
flat on the planer. Some stain and varnish and it looks as good as
expensive wood.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Planer Question |
Thanks everyone.
I'm going for the planer this week. Dan captured the essence of my real
question with the "sled". Didn't know if that is something any of you had
ever tried, ...so I guess it's feasible. The only way I could think to get
rid of a bow in the wood is to fix it to something long and straight and
keep shaving off the bow, then flip and do the other side. Then perhaps put
into the sled sideways and do the sides. should also work on twists if the
board can be fixed in the sled. I'll let you know how it works.
I can put a face to all but one of the group that responded and reflected
upon some good times at Brodhead. Thanks again. Chris, you must go to
Brodhead next year. ...your gallery is a fantastic source of ideas and
information.
Thanks
On 10/30/07, HelsperSew@aol.com <HelsperSew@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Glenn,
> Your idea of using a "sled" is correct for getting the warp out of the
> boards by running it through the planer that way. I would recommend getting
> a planer. I have used mine many many times to make numerable parts. Also, I
> would recommend to anyone ordering the "bargain bag" of spruce that ACS and
> Wicks offers. Very cheap and you can get many smaller parts out of it.
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Planer Question |
Thanks,
I think I can pick up extruded square tubing at the place I have been buy
steel from for pretty cheap. I'll try that.
Looking forward to making chips again. It's been a while.
Thanks
On 10/30/07, Brian Kraut <brian.kraut@engalt.com> wrote:
>
> brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> I have a long straight board with clamps on it that I use for making
> tapered
> spars. I also have a 10' long aluminum channel that I can clamp down to
> my
> saw to make an extra long rip fence. With a setup like that you can clamp
> a
> weird twisted piece of wood to the flat straight board and run it through
> the saw to get one side perfectly straight and flat. Put that side down
> through the planer and you will wind up with two parallel sides and can
> get
> the other two sides done on the table saw. You can get away without the
> long rip fence, but it makes it a lot easier for cutting long boards. I
> also clamp pieces of plywood on the bottom of the long fence and get nice
> long infeed and outfeed tables. It is hard to keep a long board flat on a
> short table and rip fence unless you have two people doing it.
>
> I love my planer and they are not that expensive. I made my son a very
> nice
> water bed using cheap Home Depot 2 X 8s and getting the sides smooth and
> flat on the planer. Some stain and varnish and it looks as good as
> expensive wood.
>
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Planer Question |
I wouldn't do without a planer when building anything. I have a portable Delta
planer. It achieves more things than just making 2 sides parrallel. The small
carry around style planers run at much faster rpm than big planers and they use
less hook angle on the cutting blades, leaving a finish on the wood that requires
no further finish work. When you run all of your pieces of the same size
thru it at the same setting (like all of the longerons), they are all precisely
the same thickness, plus or minus a few thousandths. This helps big time when
you cut all of your pieces to length with a power miter saw using a stop on
a fence to achieve precise lengths that are within plus or minus a few thousandths.
Think of the huge time savings doing this versus the old "cut it with a
bandsaw and then sand it to the line" style of building. I plane the full board
down to within 1/16 (.060) of the finish size, rip the pieces to 1/16 over
the size that you want making sure that your table
saw is set absolutely square, and then set the planer to run all of pieces through
on one side before you adjust the planer down to plane the next side . taking
off .030 per side to get the finished piece. I use a dial caliper to measure
the thickness and you soon learn how much a half of a crank on the planer
takes off. If you do too much planing after you rip your pieces, you start to
loose squareness. If you do not do any sanding then your glue joints will be
much stronger as well.
Del
Glenn Thomas <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> wrote:
I was thinking I could get by without a planer (as much as I've wanted to buy one)
and thought of a reason I might be able to justify the purchase. I was recently
given 4 rough-cut Sitka Spruce boards 2" x 6" x approx. 14'. I was hoping
to use them for longerons but they have a bit of a warp in them. Would the wood
still be usable if I were to cut it in to smaller pieces (suitable for tail
feathers, compression struts, etc.) and clamp the smaller pieces into a perfectly
straight jig that would hold them in a fixed position as I plane off any
warpage by passing the whole piece in the jig through a planer? The pieces are
not badly warped, just not perfect, and if I used them for small pieces, what
I call warpage might even be acceptable for some folks without planing. I could
just buy more spruce but I'm sure I'd find uses for the planer in the future.
Has anybody heard of using a planer for this?
Thanks
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142637#142637
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
__________________________________________________
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Planer Question |
If your boards have such a slight bow that you could take it out with a "sled"
then you are wasting your time, because when you get them cut down to size they
are flexible anyway, or you will be cutting them into short enough pieces that
the bow will not have any effect on anything.
Del
Glenn Thomas <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> wrote:
Thanks everyone.
I'm going for the planer this week. Dan captured the essence of my real question
with the "sled". Didn't know if that is something any of you had ever tried,
...so I guess it's feasible. The only way I could think to get rid of a
bow in the wood is to fix it to something long and straight and keep shaving off
the bow, then flip and do the other side. Then perhaps put into the sled sideways
and do the sides. should also work on twists if the board can be fixed
in the sled. I'll let you know how it works.
I can put a face to all but one of the group that responded and reflected upon
some good times at Brodhead. Thanks again. Chris, you must go to Brodhead
next year. ...your gallery is a fantastic source of ideas and information.
Thanks
On 10/30/07, HelsperSew@aol.com <HelsperSew@aol.com> wrote: Glenn,
Your idea of using a "sled" is correct for getting the warp out of the boards
by running it through the planer that way. I would recommend getting a planer.
I have used mine many many times to make numerable parts. Also, I would recommend
to anyone ordering the "bargain bag" of spruce that ACS and Wicks offers.
Very cheap and you can get many smaller parts out of it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
---------------------------------
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
__________________________________________________
Message 9
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I'm thinking what you really need for this operation is a jointer. Read th
is link:
http://www.wisegeek.com/how-is-a-jointer-used-in-woodworking.htm
Eric> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Planer Question> From: glennthomas@flyingwoo
d.com> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:30:43 -0700> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.
yingwood.com>> > I was thinking I could get by without a planer (as much as
I've wanted to buy one) and thought of a reason I might be able to justify
the purchase. I was recently given 4 rough-cut Sitka Spruce boards 2" x 6"
x approx. 14'. I was hoping to use them for longerons but they have a bit
of a warp in them. Would the wood still be usable if I were to cut it in to
smaller pieces (suitable for tail feathers, compression struts, etc.) and
clamp the smaller pieces into a perfectly straight jig that would hold them
in a fixed position as I plane off any warpage by passing the whole piece
in the jig through a planer? The pieces are not badly warped, just not perf
ect, and if I used them for small pieces, what I call warpage might even be
acceptable for some folks without planing. I could just buy more spruce bu
t I'm sure I'd find uses for the planer in the future. Has anybody heard of
using a planer for this?> > Thanks> > --------> Glenn Thomas> N?????> http
://www.flyingwood.com> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forum
=========> > >
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions |
To glue down the leading edge, try sanding the glue joint and using Liquid
Nail.(make sure that you get it in place the first time) After all, the
fabric will hold it down in place.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
>
> Thought of screws, however everything I read said don't use screws on
> aircraft woodwork, rather to look at the brads/nails as temporary clamps
> for holding while the glue drys.
>
> Didn't see glue for the leading edge that came loose, so I mentioned it.
>
> Does give me a chance to really clean out the area that will be enclosed
> and get the dust out first, so its probably a good thing.
>
> Think I will put some kind of extra cloth tape over the brads to make the
> covering cloth look better and make it less likely they will rise and look
> ugly.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142489#142489
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions |
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried tapping the little brass brad/nails in and while
it works they really didn't seem to hold all that well, so I am going to
have to do something more than that to get them to stay put.
Once that is done on the top wings they should be ready to be covered. Watched
the Poly-Fiber video and read the book, wow its going to be fun. Have a lot of
work ahead. The bottom wings need a front spar and leading edge then they will
be ready to cover.
Not sure how you deal with covering the wing walk part of the lower wing, but a
forum of high wing plane people probably isn't the ideal place to ask.
Think I will call the Poly-Fiber support line, had some other questions for them
anyway.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142832#142832
Message 12
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Hi Guys,
Some discussion in my hangar has rasied some questions about landing gear
geometry. Our local crop duster pilot flies a Cessna 188 AgWagon and has the
U/C set with toe in. I was talking to a Gere Biplane builder who has the U/C
set with toe out (about 2 degrees overall). With the straight gear Pietenpol
(and mine with J3 type gear) there is no toe in or out. The Agwagon has a
tailwheel whilst the Gere has a tail skid.
Any ideas on the pro's and con's of the different methods?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/>
4:43 PM
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Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
Peter,
I put in a slight toe-in. Theory--keep the gear from wanting to squat
like a duck when landing hard or taxiing with heavy load. Used laser
levels to sight out about 40 feet in front of edge of each wheel. Made
the distance between outside edges of wheels very slightly more narrow
at 40' (about 1/2inch) as compared to directly in front of the wheels.
Set in about 0.25 degree toe-in, using thin washers.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear
Hi Guys,
Some discussion in my hangar has rasied some questions about landing
gear geometry. Our local crop duster pilot flies a Cessna 188 AgWagon
and has the U/C set with toe in. I was talking to a Gere Biplane builder
who has the U/C set with toe out (about 2 degrees overall). With the
straight gear Pietenpol (and mine with J3 type gear) there is no toe in
or out. The Agwagon has a tailwheel whilst the Gere has a tail skid.
Any ideas on the pro's and con's of the different methods?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
Release Date: 9/10/2007 4:43 PM
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
In a message dated 10/30/2007 7:38:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
gbowen@ptialaska.net writes:
Peter,
I put in a slight toe-in. Theory--keep the gear from wanting to squat like a
duck when landing hard or taxiing with heavy load. Used laser levels to sight
out about 40 feet in front of edge of each wheel. Made the distance between
outside edges of wheels very slightly more narrow at 40' (about 1/2inch) as
compared to directly in front of the wheels. Set in about 0.25 degree toe-in,
using thin washers.
Gordon
Peter,
I agree totally with Gordon and his reasons.
Originally, my split axle gear had too much toe - in. It would splay the
gear apart when pulling it backward, and pushing 'er forward you could feel
the tires slipping. Early on in my test period, I was landing in a pretty
nasty right crosswind, so I put down the upwind (right) gear on the ground first,
and it very nearly groundlooped to the left, because that was the direction
that wheel was pointing. That was the closest I've ever come to groundlooping
my plane. If not for the excellent rudder authority of the Pietenpol, even at
low speeds, the tail would surely have went on around. To fix the problem, I
pulled one wheel at a time, and removed the wheel bearings and all grease.
Tied the tail and gear off to the structure of the hanger, and heated up the
lower vee of the gear with a Rosebud torch, while a helper slipped a 10 foot
piece of pipe over the axle and bent it back till we ended up with just a very
slight toe - in, all the while maintaining the camber angle. I've also modified
the gear from bunji's to springs, and the gear has worked very well ever
since. Close to 350 hrs on 'er now !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 15
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Thanks Guys,
I may put a bit of toe-in on mine.
Cheers
Peter
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear
In a message dated 10/30/2007 7:38:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
gbowen@ptialaska.net writes:
Peter,
I put in a slight toe-in. Theory--keep the gear from wanting to squat like a
duck when landing hard or taxiing with heavy load. Used laser levels to
sight out about 40 feet in front of edge of each wheel. Made the distance
between outside edges of wheels very slightly more narrow at 40' (about
1/2inch) as compared to directly in front of the wheels. Set in about 0.25
degree toe-in, using thin washers.
Gordon
Peter,
I agree totally with Gordon and his reasons.
Originally, my split axle gear had too much toe - in. It would splay
the gear apart when pulling it backward, and pushing 'er forward you could
feel the tires slipping. Early on in my test period, I was landing in a
pretty nasty right crosswind, so I put down the upwind (right) gear on the
ground first, and it very nearly groundlooped to the left, because that was
the direction that wheel was pointing. That was the closest I've ever come
to groundlooping my plane. If not for the excellent rudder authority of the
Pietenpol, even at low speeds, the tail would surely have went on around.
To fix the problem, I pulled one wheel at a time, and removed the wheel
bearings and all grease. Tied the tail and gear off to the structure of the
hanger, and heated up the lower vee of the gear with a Rosebud torch, while
a helper slipped a 10 foot piece of pipe over the axle and bent it back till
we ended up with just a very slight toe - in, all the while maintaining the
camber angle. I've also modified the gear from bunji's to springs, and the
gear has worked very well ever since. Close to 350 hrs on 'er now !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
_____
See what's new at
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
6:26 PM
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