---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/31/07: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:05 AM - Re: Landing Gear (hvandervoo@aol.com) 2. 02:10 PM - Technique for setting wheel toe-in (Gordon Bowen) 3. 02:33 PM - Re: Technique for setting wheel toe-in (Peter W Johnson) 4. 03:16 PM - Re: Technique for setting wheel toe-in (Gordon Bowen) 5. 04:31 PM - Re: Technique for setting wheel toe-in (Gene Rambo) 6. 10:19 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Peter W Johnson) 7. 11:31 PM - Re: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article (Clif Dawson) 8. 11:49 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear From: hvandervoo@aol.com Peter, In my opinion you should have a slight toe-in. See attached drawing for explanation, this assumes both wheels on the ground .. Of course during a crosswind touchdown one wing will be low and that wheel w ill control the direction in the first few seconds. Thus too much Toe in could be bad in this few seconds, so keep toe-in to a m inimum The only reason I see that some airplanes have toe-out is in a unloaded situ ation. Does the Gere Biplane have toe-out at gross load ? Hans -----Original Message----- From: Peter W Johnson Sent: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 6:23 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Hi Guys, =C2- Some discussion in my hangar has rasied some questions about landing gear ge ometry. Our local crop duster pilot flies a Cessna 188 AgWagon and has the U /C set with toe in. I was talking to a Gere Biplane builder who has the U/C set with toe out (about 2 degrees overall). With the straight gear Pietenpol (and mine with J3 type gear) there is no toe in or out. The Agwagon has a t ailwheel whilst the Gere has a tail skid. =C2- Any ideas on the pro=99s and con=99s of the different methods? =C2- Cheers =C2- Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com =C2- =C2- Release Date: 9/10/2007 4:43 PM -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -======================== -= - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content now also available via the Web Forums! -= --> http://forums.matronics.com -======================== ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http ://mail.aol.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:51 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Technique for setting wheel toe-in Had a couple emails for builder's interested in laser method to set the wheel's toe-in. Rather than repeating, thought I'd write up and post as attachment for anyone who may be interested. Hope it's helpful. Gordon ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:24 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Technique for setting wheel toe-in Gordon/Hans, Thanks for the info. What/where am I trying to shim? The only way I can see to adjust things is to get the gas torch out (like Chuck) Cheers Peter _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2007 8:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Technique for setting wheel toe-in Had a couple emails for builder's interested in laser method to set the wheel's toe-in. Rather than repeating, thought I'd write up and post as attachment for anyone who may be interested. Hope it's helpful. Gordon 6:26 PM 6:26 PM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:55 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Technique for setting wheel toe-in Sorry 'bout that Peter, I have a cub style type bungeed gear, also Cessna wheels, brakes and axle. I can shim up behind the axle backing plate. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:32 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Technique for setting wheel toe-in Gordon/Hans, Thanks for the info. What/where am I trying to shim? The only way I can see to adjust things is to get the gas torch out (like Chuck) Cheers Peter ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2007 8:10 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Technique for setting wheel toe-in Had a couple emails for builder's interested in laser method to set the wheel's toe-in. Rather than repeating, thought I'd write up and post as attachment for anyone who may be interested. Hope it's helpful. Gordon 30/10/2007 6:26 PM 30/10/2007 6:26 PM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:29 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Technique for setting wheel toe-in I don't know about using lasers and such . . . just spin the wheels and make a chalk line on each wheel, then make the distance exactly the same on the front and back of the wheels. Can't get much simpler than that. Gene ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:16 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Hans, I=92m not too sure of the geometry on a Gere but the builder was adamant about toe out. I think it is fixed whether loaded or not. Again this would be the same as the Piet. It should only change the camber when the load is changed. Cheers Peter. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hvandervoo@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2007 1:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Peter, In my opinion you should have a slight toe-in. See attached drawing for explanation, this assumes both wheels on the ground. Of course during a crosswind touchdown one wing will be low and that wheel will control the direction in the first few seconds. Thus too much Toe in could be bad in this few seconds, so keep toe-in to a minimum The only reason I see that some airplanes have toe-out is in a unloaded situation. Does the Gere Biplane have toe-out at gross load ? Hans -----Original Message----- From: Peter W Johnson Sent: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 6:23 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Hi Guys, Some discussion in my hangar has rasied some questions about landing gear geometry. Our local crop duster pilot flies a Cessna 188 AgWagon and has the U/C set with toe in. I was talking to a Gere Biplane builder who has the U/C set with toe out (about 2 degrees overall). With the straight gear Pietenpol (and mine with J3 type gear) there is no toe in or out. The Agwagon has a tailwheel whilst the Gere has a tail skid. Any ideas on the pro=92s and con=92s of the different methods? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/" \nhttp://www.cpc-world.com Release Date: 9/10/2007 4:43 PM target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ://forums.matronics.com _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free HYPERLINK "http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci d=A OLAOF00020000000970" \nAOL Mail! 30/10/2007 6:26 PM 31/10/2007 4:38 PM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:16 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article Finaly I've rediscovered this article so here's the missing page Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Winter" Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article > > Cliff, Thank you! But there appears to be a page missing. Page 61? > button 1 gives p. 56. > Button 2. gives p. 57. > 3. p. 58. > 4. p. 59. Text ends "...built by" > 5. No page number: pictures and caption only. Apparently page 60. > 6. "Continued from page 61." Text begins "and gussets by ..." > 7. PIETENPOLS, Continued. p. 88. > 8. p. 89. > 9. p. 90. > > > -- > 269.11.17/951 - Release Date: 8/13/2007 10:15 AM > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:59 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear I'm looking at the Gere in the 1933 Flying Manual. The landing gear is is drawn and discussed in some detail but there is no mention at all of toe in or out. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:18 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Hans, I=92m not too sure of the geometry on a Gere but the builder was adamant about toe out. I think it is fixed whether loaded or not. Again this would be the same as the Piet. It should only change the camber when the load is changed. Cheers Peter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hvandervoo@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2007 1:03 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Peter, In my opinion you should have a slight toe-in. See attached drawing for explanation, this assumes both wheels on the ground. Of course during a crosswind touchdown one wing will be low and that wheel will control the direction in the first few seconds. Thus too much Toe in could be bad in this few seconds, so keep toe-in to a minimum The only reason I see that some airplanes have toe-out is in a unloaded situation. Does the Gere Biplane have toe-out at gross load ? Hans -----Original Message----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 6:23 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear Hi Guys, Some discussion in my hangar has rasied some questions about landing gear geometry. Our local crop duster pilot flies a Cessna 188 AgWagon and has the U/C set with toe in. I was talking to a Gere Biplane builder who has the U/C set with toe out (about 2 degrees overall). With the straight gear Pietenpol (and mine with J3 type gear) there is no toe in or out. The Agwagon has a tailwheel whilst the Gere has a tail skid. Any ideas on the pro=92s and con=92s of the different methods? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com Release Date: 9/10/2007 4:43 PM target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List://forum s.matronics.com size=2 width="100%" align=center> Email and AIM finally together. 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