Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:36 AM - Re: Landing Gear (Bill Church)
2. 08:12 AM - Re: New Piet on the block (Barry Davis)
3. 08:12 AM - Varnishing ribs (Tim Willis)
4. 08:36 AM - Re: Varnishing ribs (Steve Eldredge)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: Varnishing ribs (Phillips, Jack)
6. 08:51 AM - Re: Varnishing ribs (Isablcorky@aol.com)
7. 08:55 AM - Re: Varnishing ribs (Brian Kraut)
8. 09:37 AM - Re: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs (Brian Kraut)
9. 10:25 AM - Re: Landing Gear (hvandervoo@aol.com)
10. 02:47 PM - Re: Varnishing ribs (walt evans)
11. 03:07 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Peter W Johnson)
12. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs (walt evans)
13. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs (Ryan Mueller)
14. 07:32 PM - Re: New Piet on the block (Rick Holland)
Message 1
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About a year ago, Paul Poberezny announced that the magazine published
by the Sport Aviation Association, "To Fly" was ceasing publication. At
that time they offered all the left-over back issues at very low prices.
I ordered a full set of whatever they had left. I wish I had been aware
of this magazine earlier. It was a really good magazine. Now,
unfortunately, even the SAA is disbanded.
Anyway, last night I was flipping through one of the back issues (Summer
2005) and I came across an article that caught my eye (based on recent
discussions here on the List). Up until last night I was convinced by
Hans' explanation as to why Toe-in was the preferred set-up.
Well, just to throw another wrench in the works (or in Peter's case,
spanner), here's another view on the matter of Toe-in/Toe-out. (see
attached files).
When I scanned the pages, the images would not reproduce correctly (too
dark) so I got out the scissors and cut out the parts I needed, and
glued them to some white paper, and re-drew the lines and arrows, and
pasted the new illustration over the original.
I sure am glad I'll be building the straight-axle landing gear, so I
won't have to try to figure this one out.
Bill C.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet on the block |
Hey Skip, Looks like ya'll are starting a Piet Haven. This may be good
enough for a flight up there one Saturday
Barry Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Piet on the block
The FAA came to our field yesterday and certified two new homebuilts.
One was Dave Stephens Corvair Piet. If you went to Brodhead 2005 you saw
Dave's Piet as a bare-bones fuselage. Now we have two Piets at Hales
Landing and two more Piet projects. Will try to send a picture next
week.
Skip
skipgadd@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Message 3
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I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to optimize the
process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished product.
My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single coat of polyurethane
varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I believe I have read
on this site that we need to have the portions of the ribs that glue to the spars
bare for best adhesion, and that the top and bottom surfaces of the ribs--
where the fabric goes-- should have epoxy varnish, so that the fabric "dope"
does not melt the varnish there.
I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as I would
get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end ribs). I am wondering
if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare with 3M blue masking tape
will work well. That is what I plan to do on the spar-attach surfaces.
However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and bottom surfaces
of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them with a brushed-on
second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable? Would this require sanding
between coats to make it stick? Should I instead epoxy varnish the top and
bottom surfaces first, then cover them with tape before they go in the tank?
What have you done, and what would you suggest?
Tim in central TX
Message 4
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Good plan. When they are dry epoxy coat only the fabric contact points.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to optimize the
process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished product.
My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single coat of polyurethane
varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I believe I have read
on this site that we need to have the portions of the ribs that glue to the spars
bare for best adhesion, and that the top and bottom surfaces of the ribs--
where the fabric goes-- should have epoxy varnish, so that the fabric "dope"
does not melt the varnish there.
I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as I would
get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end ribs). I am wondering
if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare with 3M blue masking tape
will work well. That is what I plan to do on the spar-attach surfaces.
However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and bottom surfaces
of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them with a brushed-on
second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable? Would this require sanding
between coats to make it stick? Should I instead epoxy varnish the top and
bottom surfaces first, then cover them with tape before they go in the tank?
What have you done, and what would you suggest?
Tim in central TX
Message 5
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Tim,
Varnishing options will generate nearly as many opinions as will what
glue to use, or if Douglas Fir is better or worse than Sitka Spruce.
Having said that, I'll offer a few opinions:
1. The need for epoxy varnish on the rib caps depends largely on what
you are going to use to cover. If you are using Stits' PolyFiber's
process, I would at least recommend that you try some test pieces with
whatever polyurethane varnish you are planning to use and paint over
that with some polytak and polybrush to make sure they won't lift your
varnish. If using dope, this may not be a problem.
2. I would not glue the ribs to the spars (therefore, I would not try
to mask off any part of the ribs). A small nail through the upright
into the spar, or through the capstrips into the spar (not preferred by
the FAA, but that's what I did) will hold the rib in place but allow
some flexing when you trammel the wing to get everything square. If you
glue the ribs in place, trammeling will be more difficult, and if you
can't get the wing absolutely square, it will be very difficult to rig
the plane to fly straight.
3. I used epoxy varnish on everything in my Pietenpol. If you do, it
is best to thin the first coat about 50% with reducer to get good
penetration into the wood grain. Then go with full strength varnish for
the second coat. Polyurethane is probably fine - lot's of Piets have
been built with it and it is certainly cheaper, but epoxy varnish is
nearly bulletproof and offers maximum protection for those parts of your
plane that can never be inspected once assembled.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Willis
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
--> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to
optimize the process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished
product.
My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single
coat of polyurethane varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I
believe I have read on this site that we need to have the portions of
the ribs that glue to the spars bare for best adhesion, and that the top
and bottom surfaces of the ribs-- where the fabric goes-- should have
epoxy varnish, so that the fabric "dope" does not melt the varnish
there.
I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as
I would get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end
ribs). I am wondering if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare
with 3M blue masking tape will work well. That is what I plan to do on
the spar-attach surfaces.
However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and
bottom surfaces of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them
with a brushed-on second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable?
Would this require sanding between coats to make it stick? Should I
instead epoxy varnish the top and bottom surfaces first, then cover them
with tape before they go in the tank?
What have you done, and what would you suggest?
Tim in central TX
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Varnishing ribs |
Before you varnish any ribs there is another operation which I failed to
tell you concerning the wing ribs.
Along the lower cap strip ( bottom) at each cluster and gusset there is a
possibility of the gathering of moisture whether it be from wet weather while
flying on instruments or possibly condensation while parked. On 41CC I drilled
a small hole on either side for drainage.( 1/8 drill ) at the lowest point.
I at one time I was a small boat sailor and builder, Snipe, Thistle and
Lightning. Dry wood was a must.
Drill, sand and then varnish with a brush. Dipping is like trying to wash a
plate from eggs by running cold water on it. You'll get the high spots but the
cavities will not be coated.
My 10 sense.
Corky
Message 7
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Any particular reason not to just use an epoxy varnish everywhere?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
Good plan. When they are dry epoxy coat only the fabric contact points.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to optimize
the process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished product.
My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single coat
of polyurethane varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I believe I have
read on this site that we need to have the portions of the ribs that glue to
the spars bare for best adhesion, and that the top and bottom surfaces of
the ribs-- where the fabric goes-- should have epoxy varnish, so that the
fabric "dope" does not melt the varnish there.
I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as I
would get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end ribs). I
am wondering if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare with 3M blue
masking tape will work well. That is what I plan to do on the spar-attach
surfaces.
However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and
bottom surfaces of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them
with a brushed-on second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable? Would
this require sanding between coats to make it stick? Should I instead epoxy
varnish the top and bottom surfaces first, then cover them with tape before
they go in the tank?
What have you done, and what would you suggest?
Tim in central TX
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs |
I had thought about weather the correct method was gluing the ribs or
nailing them a while ago. My thinking was that if you glue them and
sometime in the future you need to replace a spar you will have one hell of
a job in front of you salvaging all the ribs. Obviously, gluing the ribs
makes the rib attachment much stronger, but I don't know that you
necessarily need the strength there and it is pretty common to nail metal
ribs to wood spars. What is the norm here, glue or nails?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips,
Jack
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
<Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
Tim,
Varnishing options will generate nearly as many opinions as will what
glue to use, or if Douglas Fir is better or worse than Sitka Spruce.
Having said that, I'll offer a few opinions:
2. I would not glue the ribs to the spars (therefore, I would not try
to mask off any part of the ribs). A small nail through the upright
into the spar, or through the capstrips into the spar (not preferred by
the FAA, but that's what I did) will hold the rib in place but allow
some flexing when you trammel the wing to get everything square. If you
glue the ribs in place, trammeling will be more difficult, and if you
can't get the wing absolutely square, it will be very difficult to rig
the plane to fly straight.
plane that can never be inspected once assembled.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Willis
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
--> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to
optimize the process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished
product.
My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single
coat of polyurethane varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I
believe I have read on this site that we need to have the portions of
the ribs that glue to the spars bare for best adhesion, and that the top
and bottom surfaces of the ribs-- where the fabric goes-- should have
epoxy varnish, so that the fabric "dope" does not melt the varnish
there.
I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as
I would get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end
ribs). I am wondering if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare
with 3M blue masking tape will work well. That is what I plan to do on
the spar-attach surfaces.
However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and
bottom surfaces of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them
with a brushed-on second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable?
Would this require sanding between coats to make it stick? Should I
instead epoxy varnish the top and bottom surfaces first, then cover them
with tape before they go in the tank?
What have you done, and what would you suggest?
Tim in central TX
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
Bill,
Interesting reading specially about the Luscombe and the Cessna perhaps that proves
my point and not the writers:-)
Cessnas are notorious for easy ground handling.
A lot of ground loop problems have more to do with the CG distance from the wheels,
the longer the distance the higher the chance for a ground loop
I do fly my Piet with a slight Toe in and yet have to experience any ground loop
tendency
Another aircraft with Toe in: http://www.extraaircraft.com/Tech-Manuals/MM300200/CH32.pdf
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 9:35 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear
About a year ago, Paul Poberezny announced that the magazine published by the Sport
Aviation Association,?"To Fly" was ceasing publication. At that time they
offered all the left-over back issues at very low prices. I ordered a full set
of whatever they had left. I wish I had been aware of this magazine earlier.
It was a really good magazine. Now, unfortunately, even the SAA is disbanded.
Anyway, last night I was flipping through one of the back issues (Summer 2005)
and I came across an article that caught my eye (based on recent discussions here
on the List). Up until last night I was convinced by Hans' explanation as
to why Toe-in was the preferred set-up.
Well, just to throw another wrench?in the works (or in Peter's case, spanner),
here's another view on the matter of Toe-in/Toe-out. (see attached files).
?
When I scanned the pages, the images would not reproduce correctly (too dark) so
I got out the scissors and cut out the parts I needed, and glued them to some
white paper, and?re-drew the lines and arrows, and pasted the new illustration
over the original.?
?
I sure am glad I'll be building the straight-axle landing gear, so I won't have
to try to figure this one out.
?
?
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Varnishing ribs |
Brian,
Just that it's quite a regimin<sp> to mix the epoxy and go thru the rest
period and then varnish.
I found that the best time to varnish was on one of those days where you
weren't sure what you wanted to work on, so you went to the "Airplane
Factory" to do busy work. Varnishing is the best busy work,,,,,you can do
it and think about other stuff that you look around at.
In my opinion,,,you only need epoxy varnish where the fabric will be
attaching.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably
worth it
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
> <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> Any particular reason not to just use an epoxy varnish everywhere?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
> Eldredge
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
>
>
>
> Good plan. When they are dry epoxy coat only the fabric contact points.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:13 AM
> To: matronics piet site
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
>
> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to
> optimize
> the process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished product.
>
> My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single coat
> of polyurethane varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I believe I
> have
> read on this site that we need to have the portions of the ribs that glue
> to
> the spars bare for best adhesion, and that the top and bottom surfaces of
> the ribs-- where the fabric goes-- should have epoxy varnish, so that the
> fabric "dope" does not melt the varnish there.
>
> I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as I
> would get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end ribs).
> I
> am wondering if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare with 3M blue
> masking tape will work well. That is what I plan to do on the spar-attach
> surfaces.
>
> However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and
> bottom surfaces of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them
> with a brushed-on second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable? Would
> this require sanding between coats to make it stick? Should I instead
> epoxy
> varnish the top and bottom surfaces first, then cover them with tape
> before
> they go in the tank?
>
> What have you done, and what would you suggest?
>
> Tim in central TX
>
>
>
Message 11
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Now I=92m totally confused.
Perhaps dead straight is best after all.
Peter.
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
hvandervoo@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 3 November 2007 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear
Bill,
Interesting reading specially about the Luscombe and the Cessna perhaps
that
proves my point and not the writers:-)
Cessnas are notorious for easy ground handling.
A lot of ground loop problems have more to do with the CG distance from
the
wheels, the longer the distance the higher the chance for a ground loop
I do fly my Piet with a slight Toe in and yet have to experience any
ground
loop tendency
Another aircraft with Toe in: HYPERLINK
"http://www.extraaircraft.com/Tech-Manuals/MM300200/CH32.pdf"http://www.e
xtr
aaircraft.com/Tech-Manuals/MM300200/CH32.pdf
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 9:35 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear
About a year ago, Paul Poberezny announced that the magazine published
by
the Sport Aviation Association, "To Fly" was ceasing publication. At
that
time they offered all the left-over back issues at very low prices. I
ordered a full set of whatever they had left. I wish I had been aware of
this magazine earlier. It was a really good magazine. Now,
unfortunately,
even the SAA is disbanded.
Anyway, last night I was flipping through one of the back issues (Summer
2005) and I came across an article that caught my eye (based on recent
discussions here on the List). Up until last night I was convinced by
Hans'
explanation as to why Toe-in was the preferred set-up.
Well, just to throw another wrench in the works (or in Peter's case,
spanner), here's another view on the matter of Toe-in/Toe-out. (see
attached
files).
When I scanned the pages, the images would not reproduce correctly (too
dark) so I got out the scissors and cut out the parts I needed, and
glued
them to some white paper, and re-drew the lines and arrows, and pasted
the
new illustration over the original.
I sure am glad I'll be building the straight-axle landing gear, so I
won't
have to try to figure this one out.
Bill C.
_____
size=2 width="100%" align=center>
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free HYPERLINK
"http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci
d=A
OLAOF00020000000970" \nAOL Mail!
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
1/11/2007
6:47 PM
1/11/2007
6:47 PM
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs |
Brian,
Sorry, but never building my Piet did I worry about the day I'd have to
replace a spar.
Nailed pieces move,,,best to glue everything.
Remember to Trammel the wings.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably
worth it
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs
> <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> I had thought about weather the correct method was gluing the ribs or
> nailing them a while ago. My thinking was that if you glue them and
> sometime in the future you need to replace a spar you will have one hell
> of
> a job in front of you salvaging all the ribs. Obviously, gluing the ribs
> makes the rib attachment much stronger, but I don't know that you
> necessarily need the strength there and it is pretty common to nail metal
> ribs to wood spars. What is the norm here, glue or nails?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips,
> Jack
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:45 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
>
>
> <Jack.Phillips@cardinalhealth.com>
>
> Tim,
>
> Varnishing options will generate nearly as many opinions as will what
> glue to use, or if Douglas Fir is better or worse than Sitka Spruce.
> Having said that, I'll offer a few opinions:
>
> 2. I would not glue the ribs to the spars (therefore, I would not try
> to mask off any part of the ribs). A small nail through the upright
> into the spar, or through the capstrips into the spar (not preferred by
> the FAA, but that's what I did) will hold the rib in place but allow
> some flexing when you trammel the wing to get everything square. If you
> glue the ribs in place, trammeling will be more difficult, and if you
> can't get the wing absolutely square, it will be very difficult to rig
> the plane to fly straight.
> plane that can never be inspected once assembled.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Willis
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:13 AM
> To: matronics piet site
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
>
> --> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to
> optimize the process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished
> product.
>
> My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single
> coat of polyurethane varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I
> believe I have read on this site that we need to have the portions of
> the ribs that glue to the spars bare for best adhesion, and that the top
> and bottom surfaces of the ribs-- where the fabric goes-- should have
> epoxy varnish, so that the fabric "dope" does not melt the varnish
> there.
>
> I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as
> I would get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end
> ribs). I am wondering if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare
> with 3M blue masking tape will work well. That is what I plan to do on
> the spar-attach surfaces.
>
> However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and
> bottom surfaces of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them
> with a brushed-on second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable?
> Would this require sanding between coats to make it stick? Should I
> instead epoxy varnish the top and bottom surfaces first, then cover them
> with tape before they go in the tank?
>
> What have you done, and what would you suggest?
>
> Tim in central TX
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
> notify the sender
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
> Norsk - Portuguese
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs |
An excerpt from a Tony Bingelis article found on page 90 of the book "EAA Aircraft
Building Techniques: Wood" states:
---------------------
How Do You Attach The Ribs To The Spars?
One piece wing ribs are simply slipped onto the spars to previously marked locations
and nailed and glued into place. The rib openings for the spars must not
be a press fit. Allow .010" to .015" tolerance for glue and the swelling of the
wood from the moist glue.
Do not drive nails through the top or bottom capstrip when attaching the wing ribs
to the spar. The proper attachment is always by means of glue, using cement
coated or brass aircraft nails driven through the rib upright member, on each
side of the spar. A couple of nails through each upright should do the job.
------------------------------
That's the only reference material I can find at the moment. I flipped through
AC 43.13 briefly, but if it's in there I didn't see it. I would think Tony B is
a good source though. Hope that helps,
Ryan
I had thought about weather the correct method was gluing the ribs or
nailing them a while ago. My thinking was that if you glue them and
sometime in the future you need to replace a spar you will have one hell of
a job in front of you salvaging all the ribs. Obviously, gluing the ribs
makes the rib attachment much stronger, but I don't know that you
necessarily need the strength there and it is pretty common to nail metal
ribs to wood spars. What is the norm here, glue or nails?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips,
Jack
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
Tim,
Varnishing options will generate nearly as many opinions as will what
glue to use, or if Douglas Fir is better or worse than Sitka Spruce.
Having said that, I'll offer a few opinions:
2. I would not glue the ribs to the spars (therefore, I would not try
to mask off any part of the ribs). A small nail through the upright
into the spar, or through the capstrips into the spar (not preferred by
the FAA, but that's what I did) will hold the rib in place but allow
some flexing when you trammel the wing to get everything square. If you
glue the ribs in place, trammeling will be more difficult, and if you
can't get the wing absolutely square, it will be very difficult to rig
the plane to fly straight.
plane that can never be inspected once assembled.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Willis
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs
-->
I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to
optimize the process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished
product.
My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single
coat of polyurethane varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I
believe I have read on this site that we need to have the portions of
the ribs that glue to the spars bare for best adhesion, and that the top
and bottom surfaces of the ribs-- where the fabric goes-- should have
epoxy varnish, so that the fabric "dope" does not melt the varnish
there.
I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as
I would get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end
ribs). I am wondering if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare
with 3M blue masking tape will work well. That is what I plan to do on
the spar-attach surfaces.
However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and
bottom surfaces of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them
with a brushed-on second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable?
Would this require sanding between coats to make it stick? Should I
instead epoxy varnish the top and bottom surfaces first, then cover them
with tape before they go in the tank?
What have you done, and what would you suggest?
Tim in central TX
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
__________________________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet on the block |
Or Piet Heaven. Soon you will have more Piets than Broadhead. I am jealous,
would love to find an air park as nice are yours one of these days.
Rick
On 11/2/07, Barry Davis <bed@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Skip, Looks like ya'll are starting a Piet Haven. This may be good
> enough for a flight up there one Saturday
> Barry Davis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Skip Gadd <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
> *To:* pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:38 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: New Piet on the block
>
> The FAA came to our field yesterday and certified two new homebuilts. One
> was Dave Stephens Corvair Piet. If you went to Brodhead 2005 you saw Dave's
> Piet as a bare-bones fuselage. Now we have two Piets at Hales Landing and
> two more Piet projects. Will try to send a picture next week.
> Skip
>
>
> skipgadd@earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
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