Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 11/04/07


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:13 AM - List Fund Raiser (Matt Dralle)
     1. 02:23 AM - Re: Re: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs (Tim Willis)
     2. 05:47 AM - Prop drawing (santiago morete)
     3. 09:23 AM - Tail Instalation ()
     4. 11:08 AM - Lawyers versus Carburetors (Michael Fisher)
     5. 02:19 PM - Re: Lawyers versus Carburetors (Rob Stapleton, Jr.)
     6. 02:27 PM - Re: Landing Gear (shad bell)
     7. 02:57 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Rick Holland)
     8. 03:29 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Peter W Johnson)
     9. 03:37 PM - Re: Lawyers versus Carburetors (Gene & Tammy)
    10. 03:47 PM - Re: Tail Instalation (Don Emch)
    11. 06:58 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Rick Holland)
    12. 07:12 PM - Re: Tail Instalation (Dick Navratil)
    13. 07:37 PM - Re: Re: Tail Instalation ()
    14. 07:39 PM - Re: Tail Instalation ()
 
 
 


Message 0


  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:13:30 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: List Fund Raiser
    Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. I've got a bunch of really nice incentive gifts this year. There's really something for everyone! Please make a Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator


    Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:23:17 AM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: RE: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs
    Thanks to you all for your excellent input. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@yahoo.com> >Sent: Nov 2, 2007 6:46 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: gluing ribs to spars/was: Varnishing ribs > >An excerpt from a Tony Bingelis article found on page 90 of the book "EAA Aircraft Building Techniques: Wood" states: >--------------------- >How Do You Attach The Ribs To The Spars? > >One piece wing ribs are simply slipped onto the spars to previously marked locations and nailed and glued into place. The rib openings for the spars must not be a press fit. Allow .010" to .015" tolerance for glue and the swelling of the wood from the moist glue. >Do not drive nails through the top or bottom capstrip when attaching the wing ribs to the spar. The proper attachment is always by means of glue, using cement coated or brass aircraft nails driven through the rib upright member, on each side of the spar. A couple of nails through each upright should do the job. >------------------------------ >That's the only reference material I can find at the moment. I flipped through AC 43.13 briefly, but if it's in there I didn't see it. I would think Tony B is a good source though. Hope that helps, > >Ryan > > > > >I had thought about weather the correct method was gluing the ribs or >nailing them a while ago. My thinking was that if you glue them and >sometime in the future you need to replace a spar you will have one hell of >a job in front of you salvaging all the ribs. Obviously, gluing the ribs >makes the rib attachment much stronger, but I don't know that you >necessarily need the strength there and it is pretty common to nail metal >ribs to wood spars. What is the norm here, glue or nails? > >Brian Kraut >Engineering Alternatives, Inc. >www.engalt.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Phillips, >Jack >Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:45 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs > > > > >Tim, > >Varnishing options will generate nearly as many opinions as will what >glue to use, or if Douglas Fir is better or worse than Sitka Spruce. >Having said that, I'll offer a few opinions: > >2. I would not glue the ribs to the spars (therefore, I would not try >to mask off any part of the ribs). A small nail through the upright >into the spar, or through the capstrips into the spar (not preferred by >the FAA, but that's what I did) will hold the rib in place but allow >some flexing when you trammel the wing to get everything square. If you >glue the ribs in place, trammeling will be more difficult, and if you >can't get the wing absolutely square, it will be very difficult to rig >the plane to fly straight. >plane that can never be inspected once assembled. > >Good luck, > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim >Willis >Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:13 AM >To: matronics piet site >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnishing ribs > >--> > >I am about to varnish ribs, and need some guidance. I am trying to >optimize the process, avoid making a mess, and get the best finished >product. > >My plan is to built a temporary tank and immerse each rib in a single >coat of polyurethane varnish, thinned with turpentine. However, I >believe I have read on this site that we need to have the portions of >the ribs that glue to the spars bare for best adhesion, and that the top >and bottom surfaces of the ribs-- where the fabric goes-- should have >epoxy varnish, so that the fabric "dope" does not melt the varnish >there. > >I think that since the ribs are entirely covered, a single coat such as >I would get from the dip would be enough varnish (except on the end >ribs). I am wondering if covering the surfaces I want to leave bare >with 3M blue masking tape will work well. That is what I plan to do on >the spar-attach surfaces. > >However, I am also wondering if I could go ahead and coat the tops and >bottom surfaces of the ribs with this first coat, then go back over them >with a brushed-on second coat of epoxy varnish. Is this workable? >Would this require sanding between coats to make it stick? Should I >instead epoxy varnish the top and bottom surfaces first, then cover them >with tape before they go in the tank? > >What have you done, and what would you suggest? > >Tim in central TX > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please >notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - >Norsk - Portuguese > > > __________________________________________________


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:47:37 AM PST US
    From: santiago morete <moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar>
    Subject: Prop drawing
    Yes Clif, 800kb would be ok, if you don't mind. Thanks a lot for your help. Saludos Santiago --------------------------------- Yahoo! Noticias Todo lo que tens que saber sobre Elecciones Presidenciales 2007 encontralo en Yahoo! Noticias. http://ar.news.yahoo.com/elecciones2007/


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:23:49 AM PST US
    From: <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: Tail Instalation
    Now that my landing gear is mostly done I am working on the fittings for installing the tail group. I have not covered anything yet and was wondering if installing the uncover tail (horizontal and vertical) to an uncovered fuselage will cause a fit problem after I add the covering to the tail and fuselage? Basically will my bolt holes be slightly off and the tail no longer fit properly? Thanks Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:08:21 AM PST US
    From: Michael Fisher <mfisher@gci.net>
    Subject: Lawyers versus Carburetors
    "http://www.precisionairmotive.com/pr-carbdiscon.htm" Pietenpol Aviation Friends, Operators of carburetted aircraft engines are in for difficult and costly times. The link above explains why. The price of injection system components will also rise, since that is now the only option other than turbine power. Shops and owners can expect a flood of bogus and foreign parts and assemblies, some of them dangerous. It's an ill wind that blows anyone no good.&nbsp; Experimental and ultralight aircraft will flourish. Happy landings, Mike Fisher


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:19:31 PM PST US
    From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto@alaska.net>
    Subject: Lawyers versus Carburetors
    http://www.precisionairmotive.com/ The info is on their website too. Big, bummer. Watch what parts are left go through the roof at distributors... Rob Building a Pietenpol in Anchorage, AK. www.eaa42.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Fisher Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 10:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lawyers versus Carburetors "http://www.precisionairmotive.com/pr-carbdiscon.htm" Pietenpol Aviation Friends, Operators of carburetted aircraft engines are in for difficult and costly times. The link above explains why. The price of injection system components will also rise, since that is now the only option other than turbine power. Shops and owners can expect a flood of bogus and foreign parts and assemblies, some of them dangerous. It's an ill wind that blows anyone no good.&nbsp; Experimental and ultralight aircraft will flourish. Happy landings, Mike Fisher


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:27:07 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Landing Gear
    If my memory serves me correctly, getting the split axles streight shouldn't be any harder than getting it streight on the strieght axle (wooden gear). I think what Dad did was get his axles, and a piece of steel tubing that fit thrugh the inside of the axles, made a jig that was the same as his fuselage fittings, and welded the axles on the gear legs with the tube inside the axles. This results in 0 degree toe , streight axles. And after welding the axles on take the long piece of tubing out of the axles. 1. weld up legs in flat jig (like a steel fuselage) 2. weld pivot points on legs where gear attatches to fuselage 3. make a Mock-up (jig) of bottom of fuselage and bolt the landing gear legs to it. Jigging it up in the inverted position (as if the airplane was on it's back) will be eaiser. 4. when your ready to weld on the axles, slide them on a long piece of tubing and clamp in place and weld them on. Do all the welding, (tacking, AND FINNISHING with the tube in place), or it can warp, and get crooked. Hope this helps . Happy building and flying Shad Bell NX92GB __________________________________________________


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:57:14 PM PST US
    From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Landing Gear
    That's the way I did it, using my mock fuselage laid upside down on the floor with landing gear fittings installed for a jig (yet another reason to build a mock fuselage). Due to a lack of self confidence in my fabrication abilities I went for the bolt on axles so I can modify the alignment with shims if necessary. Rick On 11/4/07, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > *If my memory serves me correctly, getting the split axles streight > shouldn't be any harder than getting it streight on the strieght axle > (wooden gear). I think what Dad did was get his axles, and a piece of > steel tubing that fit thrugh the inside of the axles, made a jig that was > the same as his fuselage fittings, and welded the axles on the gear legs > with the tube inside the axles. This results in 0 degree toe , streight > axles. And after welding the axles on take the long piece of tubing out of > the axles. * > *1. weld up legs in flat jig (like a steel fuselage)* > *2. weld pivot points on legs where gear attatches to fuselage* > *3. make a Mock-up (jig) of bottom of fuselage and bolt the landing gear > legs to it. Jigging it up in the inverted position (as if the airplane was > on it's back) will be * > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:29:22 PM PST US
    From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
    Subject: Landing Gear
    Shad, That=92s what I did. I=92m not sure if there are any changes to the geometry on Load or No Load conditions. I=92m going to measure mine and see what happens. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Monday, 5 November 2007 9:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear If my memory serves me correctly, getting the split axles streight shouldn't be any harder than getting it streight on the strieght axle (wooden gear). I think what Dad did was get his axles, and a piece of steel tubing that fit thrugh the inside of the axles, made a jig that was the same as his fuselage fittings, and welded the axles on the gear legs with the tube inside the axles. This results in 0 degree toe , streight axles. And after welding the axles on take the long piece of tubing out of the axles. 1. weld up legs in flat jig (like a steel fuselage) 2. weld pivot points on legs where gear attatches to fuselage 3. make a Mock-up (jig) of bottom of fuselage and bolt the landing gear legs to it. Jigging it up in the inverted position (as if the airplane was on it's back) will be "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c om/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 3/11/2007 9:42 PM 3/11/2007 9:42 PM


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:37:38 PM PST US
    From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Lawyers versus Carburetors
    Rob, The one bit of good news is this will not effect the Stromberg carbs used on continental 65/75/85's Gene > > > -- > 10/27/2007 11:02 AM > >


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:47:00 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tail Instalation
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    Hi Chris, I assembled my tail completely without covering. Rigged it just as it would be after covering. There may be a little tightness in some areas but it shouldn't be a problem. In fact just before covering I did one long day outside and completely assembled and rigged the ship, then loosened all turnbuckles the same amount of turns and disassembled everything for covering. To me it was a lot easier to rig with access to spars and longerons. After covering all turnbuckles were tightened back the same number of turns. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143859#143859


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:58:45 PM PST US
    From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Landing Gear
    Peter As far as adjusting the gear for the loaded condition, I built a Cub (GN-1) style gear with die springs. I was told after I finished the gear that the springs should be pre-loaded before finish welding them (loaded by how much I don't know). Anyhow mine are setup so the wheels are vertical with just the fuselage and my weight, how it's going to work with the engine and wing weight I will soon find out. gday Rick On 11/4/07, Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au > wrote: > > Shad, > > > That's what I did. I'm not sure if there are any changes to the geometry > on Load or No Load conditions. I'm going to measure mine and see what > happens. > > > Cheers > > > Peter > > Wonthaggi Australia > > http://www.cpc-world.com > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] > *On Behalf Of *shad bell > *Sent:* Monday, 5 November 2007 9:26 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear > > > *If my memory serves me correctly, getting the split axles streight > shouldn't be any harder than getting it streight on the strieght axle > (wooden gear). I think what Dad did was get his axles, and a piece of > steel tubing that fit thrugh the inside of the axles, made a jig that was > the same as his fuselage fittings, and welded the axles on the gear legs > with the tube inside the axles. This results in 0 degree toe , streight > axles. And after welding the axles on take the long piece of tubing out of > the axles. * > > *1. weld up legs in flat jig (like a steel fuselage)* > > *2. weld pivot points on legs where gear attatches to fuselage* > > *3. make a Mock-up (jig) of bottom of fuselage and bolt the landing gear > legs to it. Jigging it up in the inverted position (as if the airplane was > on it's back) will be * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > * > http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > > 3/11/2007 9:42 PM > > 3/11/2007 9:42 PM > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:12:40 PM PST US
    From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail Instalation
    Chris It did cause a problem for me. Things didnt line up after installing fabric, re-enforcing tapes and paint. I would wait to drill till after. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: <catdesigns@att.net> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Instalation > > Now that my landing gear is mostly done I am working on the fittings for > installing the tail group. I have not covered anything yet and was > wondering if installing the uncover tail (horizontal and vertical) to an > uncovered fuselage will cause a fit problem after I add the covering to > the tail and fuselage? Basically will my bolt holes be slightly off and > the tail no longer fit properly? > > Thanks > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com > > >


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:37:43 PM PST US
    From: <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail Instalation
    Thanks Don Chris do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 3:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Instalation > > Hi Chris, > > I assembled my tail completely without covering. Rigged it just as it > would be after covering. There may be a little tightness in some areas > but it shouldn't be a problem. In fact just before covering I did one > long day outside and completely assembled and rigged the ship, then > loosened all turnbuckles the same amount of turns and disassembled > everything for covering. To me it was a lot easier to rig with access to > spars and longerons. After covering all turnbuckles were tightened back > the same number of turns. > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143859#143859 > > >


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:39:53 PM PST US
    From: <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail Instalation
    Thanks Dick. Sounds like should wait. Chris do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Instalation > <horzpool@goldengate.net> > > Chris > It did cause a problem for me. Things didnt line up after installing > fabric, re-enforcing tapes and paint. I would wait to drill till after. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <catdesigns@att.net> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 11:23 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail Instalation > > >> >> Now that my landing gear is mostly done I am working on the fittings for >> installing the tail group. I have not covered anything yet and was >> wondering if installing the uncover tail (horizontal and vertical) to an >> uncovered fuselage will cause a fit problem after I add the covering to >> the tail and fuselage? Basically will my bolt holes be slightly off and >> the tail no longer fit properly? >> >> Thanks >> Chris Tracy >> Sacramento, Ca >> Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com >> >> >> >> > > >




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   pietenpol-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Pietenpol-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --